Yeah. I should say it's core only, unless approved. While I might get a feat or two approved, I'm not going to be able to draw from a lot of different products. I specifically asked about the empyreal bloodline,as something I might try to get approved. Since that's out, (the thread title really needs changed) I need to stick to 99% core.
Ok, so, I have to lose either the empyreal bloodine or the dragon disciple levels. The dd grants +4 strength and +2 ac. Empyreal will let me put the 9 in charisma instead of int which is nice. So I'd be looking at Sohei monk 2/sorc 8/EK 10 for a BAB of 15, CL 18 wis to ac and evasion or P2/s4/dd4/ek10 for a BAB of 17 CL 16 and a hefty save bonus. To be honest, the extra attack doesn't matter that much to me. Both sound enticing.
Which would you guys recommend?
Captain Netz wrote:
Doesn't Dragon Disciple force your bloodline into draconic?
Yep! "Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline."
DD is dragon disciple. The barbarian dip is for the martial weapon proficency (all). Has to be a fighter/barb/pally/ranger, since I'd be wisdom based, figured I'd go barb for the skills, rage, and extra movement.
I'm not familiar with the Lorewarden, so I looked it up on the PFSRD. I see nothing that gives int to ac.
Thanks for the reply!
I'm going to be playing in a PF game, and thought I'd run an eldritch knight. I'm thinking of running with the following: Ex-monk1/barbarian1/sorceror4/DD4/EK10. This will let me use wisdom as my casting stat, along with adding wis to ac. Alternately, I could replace the monk and barb levels with 2 levels of paladin for cha to saves. The game starts at 3rd level, and I rolled the following stats: 18, 15, 15, 14, 12, 9.
The game will be core classes only, but a feat or two from other sources may be allowed.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
I understand they need to stagger invites, but 4500 a month is tiny. Staggering by week makes much more sense. And it's not about holding a grudge. It's about losing interest. If I get an invite 3 months in I might accept it. Or I might not if something else has my attention. I'll certainly hold PFO no ill will, in either case, but when I'm hungry, I want to eat, so if I have to choose between Mcdonald's now or a fine steak restaurant tomorrow, I'll have a Big Mac, please.
Ryan Dancey wrote:
I think you're wrong. I'm anticipating Pathfinder more than any other MMO EVER. And I've played most of them. But if I don't get in the first month, maybe the second, I'll lose interest fast. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way. I think you vastly underestimate the MILLIONS of people looking for something different than WoW. I anticipate a monsoon of customers just dying to get into PFO, and then moving on to whatever the newest game is, or continuing to play game x and forgetting about PFO. When given the choice to play one game, or waiting in line to play a better game, well, this is the age of instant gratification. You'll lose a ton of customers. if you turn them away, they'll become someone else's customer.
Justin Tanner wrote:
It sounds excellent. However, no word on that dreaded tool that did so much to take the social aspect out of MMOs - the dungeon finder. If players only choice to group is by making the effort to meet people in game then it will work. If all you need to do is press a button and consume then it won't. So I hope you're not thinking of putting any LFG tools in there.
Anything resembling a dungeon queue is an absolute dealbreaker for me. Hell, no one in WoW even knows what continent a dungeon is on anymore.
I ffound this part particularly interesting:
"We are also in the middle of a blizzard of legal work. Finalizing our middleware deal has been the focus of a lot of effort over the past month or so. The terms have been negotiated and we have a mutual understanding of what everyone wants in the deal—now we just have to get it all memorialized on paper and signed. As soon as that's happened, we'll be able to tell everyone exactly what we've got planned."
Notice the term they used. I bet 5 bucks the middleware they just bought is a license to Blizzard's WoW game engine.
I hate gank fests in world pvp. Ganking someone who is herb farming is tantamount to murdering someone shopping at the produce stand. Very heroic. I'd like to see a game mechanic where the game doesn't forbid that kind of play, but just like killing the guy shopping, there are repercussions. If you get caught, your character has to spend a month in jail. You can't log on to that character for a month real time. You'd be free to play an alt, though.
Agreed. I have a few friends that I play mmos with. If I can't play Pathfinder with them, then I won't be playing Pathfinder, I'll be playing WoW or Star Wars or Rift, or whatever.
Ryan Dancey wrote:
If I have to be on a list to get in, I'll generally eat somewhere else.
Recuperate. Rogues can self heal better than any other dps class since they nerfed death knights. But I should clarify. Sure, a holy paladin plays different than a rogue, but a ret is almost identical now. Classes that fulfill the same role - I.E, dps in the above example, play pretty much identical. Spam a combo point/holy power builder, hit your finisher, wackamole your reactive's when they proc.
I'd like to add my two cents, for what they're worth.
I've been playing WoW since 2005, dabbled in many other games, and have been playing Rift since early beta. I'm also a Star Wars beta tester. IMO, for a Pathfinder MMO to be successful, it can't just be a WoW clone with a couple neat innovations. There's plenty of those out there already. The Pathfinder IP is just too obscure in the computer gaming world. It's not going to draw a lot of people just on the Pathfinder Logo. The last year or so, I've watched my friends all migrate away from WoW to other mmos or just stop playing them entirely due to Blizzard's homogenization and dumbing down of the game. So, I'd like to list a few things I'd like to see in a Pathfinder mmo.
Ditch the holy trinity of tank, dps, healer. In a Pathfinder or D&D p&p rpg, there's no reason a group of 4 mages can't play through a dungeon or module, or 4 clerics, or 4 fighters, etc. I don't see why this can't be done in an mmo.
No dungeon queue, please. WoW has become World of Queucraft. After max level, people just stand around in capital cities and queue for dungeons. Hell, after level 10, you never have to leave Orgrimmar unless you're farming for professions or reputation.
Ditto with flying mounts. It kills the multiplayer aspect, and world pvp. You almost never see another player in the world in WoW anymore.
Let's have some distinction between the classes, please. WoW has homogenized the classes so much that it's hard to distinguish between a paladin and a rogue. The spells may have different names and a different graphical effect, but mechanically they have the same effect. It makes it easier on the programmers - just get one class balanced the way you want it, then reskin the others - but it's boring and makes the class system useless.
It's a multiplayer game. I shouldn't be able to finish every quest solo. Questing should be challenging.
Daily quests and justice/conquest/valor/etc points are just another grind meant to keep players in the Skinner box as long as possible. It makes the game more like a job and less like a game. Lose them. GEar should be attained by adventuring, not by grinding the same quest over and over and over for 7200 justice points just to buy a pair of isotoner gloves.
More stuff from p&p rpgs should exist. Traps, pits, puzzles, riddles.
Something more exciting from a boss mechanic than "don't stand in fire." Watching cooldowns and procs, monitoring other player's health, making sure I hit the right keys, etc is pretty hectic in itself, getting one shotted because I was in the wrong place for a millisecond is no fun. Hell, even picking the boss's fire effect out of a warlock's hellfire spell, a shaman's healing rain, a paladin's consecrate, while 3 warriors are spinning like tops using whirlwind attack is not easy.
Let's have a world. There should be more than one path from one zone to the next. Some mmos railroad you by blocking every path other than the road with immpassable mountains, you stay on the path, or you go nowhere.
I'm sure there are a ton of other things, but that's all I have for now.
If it sounds like I'm picking on WoW, it's because I am. I just don't want to see Pathfinder repeat Blizzard's mistakes. I want a living, breathing world, not a queuefest where it's rush to max level and queue for dungeons.
Stefan Hill wrote:
There's nothing to fix. Some people are tougher than others, period. That's life and a vibrant game setting reflects this. Tell him to suck it up.
Marc Radle wrote:
I can't promise to be positive, how's constructive?
Yes, I have the vanguard. I like it, but I prefer the archon. The full bab is necessary for a fighter/mage imo. I see the vanguard as a caster who dabbles in melee, and the archon as a fighter who dabbles in spells. I simply prefer the latter. I do think the vanguard's spell progression could stand to progress a bit faster. I'd like to see sorceror progression, though fewer spells per day, still capped at 6th level spells. The full bab is a must for any character who is primarily a melee combatant. Not because of the 4th iterative attack, I could care less about that, but so much is tied to bab. Power attack, feat progression, cmb. In fact, if the archon lost all class abilities, retaining spell progression and full bab, I'd still prefer it over the vanguard. I'm aware the monk and rogue lack full bab, but the rogue brings sneak attack to the table, and the monk effectively has full bab with flurry of blows. And both are still relatively weak melee combatants. I love the flavor of the vanguard, but mechanically, it's rather weak. The arcane smite ability (much like the archon's riven spell), is pretty much useless. sacrifice a 3rd level spell for 3d6 damage that is wasted if my attack misses (see 3/4 bab), or use swift spell to lightning bolt someone for 10d6 and still attack? The only abilities I see getting much use are swift spell, weapon channel, and spell block (assuming it's now an immediate action, as suggested in the vanguard thread). The others are small perks that,, while nice, wouldn't be missed if they weren't there. That may be by design, after all, every ability neededn't have the "wow" factor, but he still seems underpowered to me, and more of a bard with fireballs. In fact, the best use of the class is as a stepping stone to eldritch knight. I'd build my vanguard as a vanguard 6/dragon disciple 4, eldritch knight 10. Or as a vanguard 7, wizard3 eldritch knight 10, using wizard for my ek spell progression. Either path nets a huge upgrade in terms of level appropriate functionality. The vanguard has a ton of flavor, and I'd probably like it a lot better had I not seen the archon first.
Sorry for the long diatribe, but you asked! :-)
How does the favored class for a half elven archon work?
"Archon: Add +1 to the number of spells
So, at 5th level, an archon knows 3 first, 2 2nd, and 1 3rd level spells. Choosing the favored class option above, he can't choose this option at all. Should it read "below" instead of "above?"
Seems to me it would be easier just to treat it like the human sorceror bonus from the apg:
Sorcerer: Add one spell known from the sorcerer spell
Some clarification would be much appreciated.
Great design - Nothing really stands out as great.
Good design - the wizard, the fighter.
Average design - the paladin.
Poor design - Everything else. The monk, the barbarian, the oracle have ultra fiddly mechanics - ki points, rage points, too much stuff to track. The sorceror's spell progression leaves him way behind the wizard. The channel energy mechanic for cleric's leave them as walking fireballs (the paladin succeeds despite this mechanic, not because of).
I'm not saying these make the classes under or overpowered, though some are, but the mechanics themselves seem unintuitive and not iconic to the classes feel.
Here's a fighter/mage/rogue build I've been kicking around:
Base attack 14
And most importantly - "Tricky Spells (Su): Starting at 5th level, an arcane trickster can cast her spells without their somatic or
Disciple of Sakura wrote:
Consider the Archos 70 or 101. I'm about to pull the trigger on a 70, I like the smaller screen, more portable.
Richard Leonhart wrote:
Why? At 8/8, he's 20% worse than both the fighter and wizard, though I'd claim losing 7-9th level spells is a sight more than 20%. Since he can fill either role, a 20% penalty is acceptable, but a 40%? I'll pass.
Richard Leonhart wrote:
Which means he'll be slightly better than an half as effective as a fighter or slightly better than half as effective as a mage. That's way too much of a hybrid tax to pay. 8/8 is about right, not 6/6.
Abraham spalding wrote:
Agreed. The cleric was a very powerful class if played right. I picked very few healing spells, just enough to keep the party alive, then heal up during downtime. You were only a walking bandaid if you CHOSE to be.
Cold Napalm wrote:
Because if we get the magus now, what purpose would another fighter/mage have? And if he then gets full bab 3/4 casting, this same argument will break out. It's too powerful, blah, blah, blah. So we will then end up with another hexblade. A full bab half caster who can't beat a ranger's animal companion. Or at best, an arcane paladin, which might be a great class, but hardly a true fighter/mage. May as well let our voices be heard now.
Rogues have this little thing called sneak attack. Perhaps you missed that? Clerics have spells and domains. Bards have all sorts of other abilities, and the monk...well, yeah, the monk sucks. What else would you call the bard's spellcasting besides mediocre? 6th level spells is average.
Compared to all the other classes abilities, the magus has a few little neat abilities that are really unimpressive. Like the monk, it has a ton of flavor and very little use. You can patch on a bunch of fiddly mechanics to make him not suck in combat, or you could just give a bab like a true FIGHTER/mage and be done.
It needs full bab because it's a FIGHTER/mage. All other front line classes have full bab. Fighter, ranger, barbarian, paladin. Without it, he's delegated to 2nd rank warrior status. He doesn't fit here either. Rogues get sneak attack and a ton of skills, bards get buffs and skills, all sorts of perform abilities, clerics and druids 9th level spells, plate armor, wild shape, etc. The magus gets - what, exactly? A bunch of situational abilities with penalties. Super Genius Games Archon is what the magus should be, as is he'll end up a henchman's b!%$*.