I don't need a trait to play a character as I envision it. Would the trait make me better at it? Yes, but I don't need Magical Aptitude for my Eldrich Knight, or need a pair of flaming poi for my Hawaiian themed bard.
You picked two bad examples for the "pay money to play" discussion:
- Magical Aptitude is a feat in the Core rulebook so you wouldn't need to "pay extra" to use it. Maybe you're thinking of the trait Magical Knack, but that's (a) available in the free traits PDF and (b) isn't legal for Pathfinder Society play anyways.
- Battle poi are available in the free Legacy of Fire Player's Guide PDF.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I don't need a trait to play a character as I envision it. Would the trait make me better at it? Yes, but I don't need Magical Aptitude for my Eldrich Knight, or need a pair of flaming poi for my Hawaiian themed bard.You picked two bad examples for the "pay money to play" discussion:
- Magical Aptitude is a feat in the Core rulebook so you wouldn't need to "pay extra" to use it. Maybe you're thinking of the trait Magical Knack, but that's (a) available in the free traits PDF and (b) isn't legal for Pathfinder Society play anyways.
- Battle poi are available in the free Legacy of Fire Player's Guide PDF.
I wasn't in the mood to go scouring through the PDFs on disk to find ones in books :P How about the Trickster trait and the switchblade scythe thing?
But the point stands, I don't need either of those traits/items to make a concept work.
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For that matter, if I've spent the money to get the gnome book for my gnome wizard, and I take the trickster feat, shouldn't I be irritated that Bill brings in a photocopy of Ted's book and it's as valid?
I don't understand how you could ever be upset at this situation. I mean, you get to play with Bill and Ted! I bet your adventures are excellent!!!
(Yes, I know it was horrible but I still had to share).
Question--I just noticed this on page 16 of the 2.2 campaign guide:
"When working on your background, it’s important
to remember a few things. You receive no bonuses for
making your character middle age or older. It’s a nice
flavor choice, but no bonuses are awarded for such a
choice in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. You may
choose to worship an evil god, but keep in mind that
your alignment has to be within one step of your god’s
alignment."I thought the "one step" rule just applied to divine casters such as clerics and inquisitors. Do all player character's alignments actually have to be within one step of their chosen deity regardless of class? If so, does this mean only LG and LN deities can have paladins? Wondering very much, as I'm trying to make up both an oracle and paladin now. Thanks!
That line should read, "...but keep in mind that if your class requires it, your alignment must be within one step of your god's alignment."
That language has been in there for 19 months. No time like the present to change it. ;-)
I'll fix that in 2.3.
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Question--I just noticed this on page 16 of the 2.2 campaign guide:
"When working on your background, it’s important
to remember a few things. You receive no bonuses for
making your character middle age or older. It’s a nice
flavor choice, but no bonuses are awarded for such a
choice in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. You may
choose to worship an evil god, but keep in mind that
your alignment has to be within one step of your god’s
alignment."I thought the "one step" rule just applied to divine casters such as clerics and inquisitors. Do all player character's alignments actually have to be within one step of their chosen deity regardless of class? If so, does this mean only LG and LN deities can have paladins? Wondering very much, as I'm trying to make up both an oracle and paladin now. Thanks!
That line should read, "...but keep in mind that if your class requires it, your alignment must be within one step of your god's alignment."
That language has been in there for 19 months. No time like the present to change it. ;-)
I'll fix that in 2.3.
Just felt that I had to say that I continue to be impressed with how quickly questions get answered by you.
(and trying to slip in a reference to what stats do I use for ox and yak... [ducking and running])
May I ask why you need stats for an ox and a yak?
May I ask why you need stats for an ox and a yak?
Presumably because those are animals that you can purchase (according to the Core Rulebook and the Adventurer's Armory) which might conceivably be useful in combat.
May I ask why you need stats for an ox and a yak?As big critters, they'd make very good Fast Zombie Companions. (But very expensive, given that all costs would need to be paid for each module they were used in, as the spells "end" at end-of-module.)
I wouldn't say that 133 gp is "very expensive" for a 5th level character (assuming a zombie ox has 5 HD). That's less than a level 2 scroll.
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May I ask why you need stats for an ox and a yak?As big critters, they'd make very good Fast Zombie Companions. (But very expensive, given that all costs would need to be paid for each module they were used in, as the spells "end" at end-of-module.)
Very, Very expensive if you enchant the yak's horns. +3 Keen yak horns are awesome! That's a ton of PA though.
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I wouldn't say that 133 gp is "very expensive" for a 5th level character (assuming a zombie ox has 5 HD). That's less than a level 2 scroll.May I ask why you need stats for an ox and a yak?As big critters, they'd make very good Fast Zombie Companions. (But very expensive, given that all costs would need to be paid for each module they were used in, as the spells "end" at end-of-module.)
True enough, but for a 4th level character, the cost of the level 3 scroll has to be added in. And there's always the possibility of rolling a 1 on the caster level check.
Very, Very expensive if you enchant the yak's horns. +3 Keen yak horns are awesome! That's a ton of PA though.
I don't think you could buy this with PA anyway, since it's not a legally available item. A yak might be, but its horn is not, as far as I know.
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May I ask why you need stats for an ox and a yak?He plans on ritually slaughtering ones he bought and raise them as undead and cast haste on them, and I think use them in combat...
Rinse Repeat, because he is aware once he makes them undead he loses them at the end of the scenario.
I'm not sure where this whole idea came from. I don't intend anything of the kind.
No ritual slaughter is called for. I just need to make them dead. Arrows, big sword. javelin, CNE bursts. Whatever.
I'm going to disagree that if they can be purchased they must have stats (in Pathfinder Society). The things that have stats--have stats. The things don't have stats--they don't have stats. To keep the Society simple, there aren't stats for a yak or an ox, so using one for anything other than flavor, simple (realistic) hauling etc is fine, but using them for combat isn't because they don't have stats (see the slave argument). So until such a time as we release a product that's legal for play and contains the stats for a yak or an ox, they don't currently have stats.
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I'm going to disagree that if they can be purchased they must have stats (in Pathfinder Society). The things that have stats--have stats. The things don't have stats--they don't have stats. To keep the Society simple, there aren't stats for a yak or an ox, so using one for anything other than flavor, simple (realistic) hauling etc is fine, but using them for combat isn't because they don't have stats (see the slave argument). So until such a time as we release a product that's legal for play and contains the stats for a yak or an ox, they don't currently have stats.
Thanks. I appreciate the quick answer.
Hopefully some day, you will release a player resource that lists purchasable animals with appropriate stats.
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I'm not sure where this whole idea came from. I don't intend anything of the kind.
No ritual slaughter is called for. I just need to make them dead. Arrows, big sword. javelin, CNE bursts. Whatever.
Because it sounds better ;)
sorry your idea won't work.
Already working on Plan B.
I'm thinking Bloody Burning Heavy Horse Skeleton.
(But keeping options open...)
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I'm not sure where this whole idea came from. I don't intend anything of the kind.
No ritual slaughter is called for. I just need to make them dead. Arrows, big sword. javelin, CNE bursts. Whatever.
Because it sounds better ;)
sorry your idea won't work.
Already working on Plan B.
I'm thinking Bloody Burning Heavy Horse Skeleton.
(But keeping options open...)
How in the heck are you getting these things into/ out of the locations? I am thinking back and it seems like fully half (at least 1/3) of the scenarios I've played had ladders going into sewers/ catacombs/ rooftops or down into ships which would make these things a big pain to deal with.
True enough, but for a 4th level character, the cost of the level 3 scroll has to be added in. And there's always the possibility of rolling a 1 on the caster level check.
I wouldn't say that 133 gp is "very expensive" for a 5th level character (assuming a zombie ox has 5 HD). That's less than a level 2 scroll.
I agree; ~500 gp is a lot of money for a consumable for a 4th level character.
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In that situation, I would say that the torchbearer should be left outside, as I would suggest that putting someone, who has no choice in the matter, into life threatening danger is not appropriate for good or neutral characters. If you are going into a situation where combat and traps are certain (like adventuring) then I think one should leave behind people that shouldn't be put into that mortal danger. If he or she is not being put into mortal danger, then they don't really need hit points or saving throws.
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I'm going to disagree that if they can be purchased they must have stats (in Pathfinder Society). The things that have stats--have stats. The things don't have stats--they don't have stats. To keep the Society simple, there aren't stats for a yak or an ox, so using one for anything other than flavor, simple (realistic) hauling etc is fine, but using them for combat isn't because they don't have stats (see the slave argument). So until such a time as we release a product that's legal for play and contains the stats for a yak or an ox, they don't currently have stats.
But pigs and goats are witch familiar options. They need stats.
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In that situation, I would say that the torchbearer should be left outside, as I would suggest that putting someone, who has no choice in the matter, into life threatening danger is not appropriate for good or neutral characters. If you are going into a situation where combat and traps are certain (like adventuring) then I think one should leave behind people that shouldn't be put into that mortal danger. If he or she is not being put into mortal danger, then they don't really need hit points or saving throws.
+1
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In that situation, I would say that the torchbearer should be left outside, as I would suggest that putting someone, who has no choice in the matter, into life threatening danger is not appropriate for good or neutral characters. If you are going into a situation where combat and traps are certain (like adventuring) then I think one should leave behind people that shouldn't be put into that mortal danger. If he or she is not being put into mortal danger, then they don't really need hit points or saving throws.I guess it just kind of seems silly that OSHA requirements suddenly kick into play in this situation, or that saying "follow me" is suddenly considered an evil act.
It just seems like it makes far more sense that if you get a slave, pick one of the four NPCs classes, have it be at level one with the standard array and that's all you really need for stats. That way you can have experts, laborers, bodyguards, etc.
And as long as you just have one "combat creature", be it a pet, companion, slave, etc. then it won't have any mechanical impact on play.
A humanoid of any stripe adds a level of complexity that is unwanted. Stat-less or not. I don't want to deal with things like, "I have my slave pick something up to see if it's cursed, or trapped, or poisoned." We don't need a secondary NPC to give a player two chances at skill checks.
There is plenty in the games to do to begin with. Let's not drag these games into a timesink.
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I really see the stat-less companions (animals/slaves/hirelings/etc) as being simply bystanders.
as in:
I have an ox and cart. I ride the ox cart to the dungeon, and leave it outside. If for some reason, we get attacked on the way to the dungeon, it is assumed that my ox and cart are inanimate objects and are in no way used in combat.
or
I have a slave who acts as my valet and herald. He accompanies me to the dungeon, and will stand quietly outside watching my ox cart until I return. If somehow we are attacked on the way to the dungeon, he will find the nearest rock to hide under (maybe even hiding under the ox cart), and I will not concern myself with him until the combat is over. At which time, he will give my armor and weapons a thorough cleaning, and resume his place either driving the ox cart, or riding in the back, or if the cart is full, he will walk behind.
or
I have hireling porters who are carrying my equipment. They will ride along in the ox cart, or in their own ox cart and unload my gear at the dungeon. They will wait outside the dungeon for me to either kill everything - at which point they will go in and carry out all of my nifty loot, or they will wait long enough to thoroughly determine that I will not be returning, and will themselves report back to their hiring hall for another adventurer to come along and hire them. If we are attacked on the way to the dungeon, the will dive for cover under the ox cart with my slave/valet or find a convenient bush to disguise themselves as, until I and my party have dispatched whatever might be attacking us. At which point, they will resume their places back in the ox cart, and we will continue on our way.
The stat-less creatures are hand-waving fluff, and meant to provide a bit of extra flavor to the character, but not to provide any mechanical advantage. Like putting down notes on your character sheet that your character has a goatee, or a family signet ring, or that he is left-handed, but had at one time been trained to write with his right-hand, and that it bothered him and never felt quite right so he went back to his sinister ways.
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I guess why I'm raising these questions is that, mechanically, slaves need to be spelled out a lot more clearly because they are intelligent. If they are left as window dressing, then what constitutes window dressing needs to be spelled out clearly.
As it stands now, IMHO, they are window dressing. Much like jewelry and trade goods. They have a value and not much else.
No stats means that they cannot have any direct involvement in an adventure.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I have a slave who acts as my valet and herald. He accompanies me to the dungeon, and will stand quietly outside watching my ox cart until I return. If somehow we are attacked on the way to the dungeon, he will find the nearest rock to hide under (maybe even hiding under the ox cart), and I will not concern myself with him until the combat is over. ...
Brother Elias, what happens when the statless slave gets caught in the area effect of a spell or swarm? What are her saving throws? What happens when the vampire tries to turn her against you during your evening massage? What's her Strength score for choking you?
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I have a slave who acts as my valet and herald. He accompanies me to the dungeon, and will stand quietly outside watching my ox cart until I return. If somehow we are attacked on the way to the dungeon, he will find the nearest rock to hide under (maybe even hiding under the ox cart), and I will not concern myself with him until the combat is over. ...Brother Elias, what happens when the statless slave gets caught in the area effect of a spell or swarm? What are her saving throws? What happens when the vampire tries to turn her against you during your evening massage? What's her Strength score for choking you?
Very simple. Everyone miraculously treats them as though they were too insignificant to bother with. They are extraordinarily good at ducking (assume improved evasion, mettle and they always make the save), and they scatter from any hint of a threat, only to obediently return once the threat is gone. (They are all masters of "the Morgan")
I think that you are overthinking this. In PFS, do you have to worry if the clothes you are wearing get stains on them with each encounter? Or whether or not your hair is burned off, or dirty? Or do you worry about the loot that you've already stowed in backpacks? I don't think that anyone in PFS gives these much thought, where in "reality", these would be just as much in danger of being destroyed as the person carrying/wearing them.
It's fantasy. Let yourself accept that it's not reality.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I think that you are overthinking this. In PFS, do you have to worry if the clothes you are wearing get stains on them with each encounter? Or whether or not your hair is burned off, or dirty? Or do you worry about the loot that you've already stowed in backpacks? I don't think that anyone in PFS gives these much thought, where in "reality", these would be just as much in danger of being destroyed as the person carrying/wearing them.
If you roll a "1" on your saving throw, of course you worry about the effects on loot. But slaves aren't that kind of property. If your mount or animal companion gets caught in a fireball, it rolls its save or takes full damage. The same is true of any other animals you have with you.
At my table, slaves aren't immune to fireballs. Having no stats, they automatically fail all saving throws. (And does Pathfinder mave a Mettle feat?)
It's fantasy. Let yourself accept that it's not reality.
Forgive me for the following rant. You're not the first person to use the argument: "It's a game set in a medieval society with supernatural elements, so none of the rules have to make sense." Indeed, it's become popular in the last couple of months, particularly so on the Pathfinder Society boards. And to that, I say:
Sorry for the strong language. I just got riled up.
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I think that you are overthinking this. In PFS, do you have to worry if the clothes you are wearing get stains on them with each encounter? Or whether or not your hair is burned off, or dirty? Or do you worry about the loot that you've already stowed in backpacks? I don't think that anyone in PFS gives these much thought, where in "reality", these would be just as much in danger of being destroyed as the person carrying/wearing them.If you roll a "1" on your saving throw, of course you worry about the effects on loot. But slaves aren't that kind of property. If your mount or animal companion gets caught in a fireball, it rolls its save or takes full damage. The same is true of any other animals you have with you.
At my table, slaves aren't immune to fireballs. Having no stats, they automatically fail all saving throws. (And does Pathfinder mave a Mettle feat?)
It's fantasy. Let yourself accept that it's not reality.Forgive me for the following rant. You're not the first person to use the argument: "It's a game set in a medieval society with supernatural elements, so none of the rules have to make sense." Indeed, it's become popular in the last couple of months, particularly so on the Pathfinder Society boards. And to that, I say:** spoiler omitted **
Sorry for the strong language. I just got riled up.
+1
The DM makes stats up for them as 1st level NPCs, and likely that means they die in the fireball, etc.
That contradicts what Josh said above: Slaves (and other things that don't have stats listed) have no stats. They're just fluff. They shouldn't be getting into situations where stats are necessary in the first place.
And if a fireball occurs where they are.. does the spell fissle, the NPC teleport away?
They shouldn't be there in the first place.
They are fluff and serve no mechanical benefit. If everyone would rather I just ban the fluff, then I will, but I think we're all intelligent, capable adults and can understand what "serves no mechanical benefit" means and how you should apply that to your game without, in my opinion, being a pain in the ass about it. :-)
Let's have fun at the table. Let's not game this thing to death.
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Are regional affinities required in PFS to take Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting feats that have such requirements.
Quandary once asked about regionl affinity in PFS but part of his question was as far as I know never answered - can additional reginal affinities be gained after character creation? and if so what does it ake?
Are regional affinities required in PFS to take Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting feats that have such requirements.
Quandary once asked about regionl affinity in PFS but part of his question was as far as I know never answered - can additional reginal affinities be gained after character creation? and if so what does it ake?
If by regional affinities you mean regional traits, then yes, you have to have a connection to a region in order to take a trait labeled as a regional trait from that area. The character had to have either been born there or to have lived in that region for at least a year to qualify for a regional trait assigned to that area. And no, you can never have more than one trait from each category, so no more than one reqional trait ever, at least in PFS play.
Details on all this is in the Character Traits Web Enhancement and will also be in the Advanced Player's Guide when that comes out.