Now I could make a 12th level character this afternoon without ever having played it through a scenario.
Sure, if you were a GM for 33 different modules. I'm not sure what your point is; you think you should have to "eat" 33 modules for this to be possible?
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Now I could make a 12th level character this afternoon without ever having played it through a scenario.Sure, if you were a GM for 33 different modules. I'm not sure what your point is; you think you should have to "eat" 33 modules for this to be possible?
I suppose that I am more grousing than making a point. I should not presume that my views are the same as the OP community's, since I am an outlier.
I suppose that I am more grousing than making a point. I should not presume that my views are the same as the OP community's, since I am an outlier.Now I could make a 12th level character this afternoon without ever having played it through a scenario.Sure, if you were a GM for 33 different modules. I'm not sure what your point is; you think you should have to "eat" 33 modules for this to be possible?
Okay, let me rephrase.
I'm not sure what you're grousing about; do you think you should have to "eat" 33 modules for this to be possible, or do you think it shouldn't be possible at all?
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Don't forget, it only takes effect the first time you GM the scenario. If its your second or third or greater time GMing the scenario you don't get credit for it. So you would have to GM 33 different scenarios and they would have to allow you to use the right tier for the character. You can't "give" a tier 1-5 scenario chronicle to a 6th level or higher character.
Because of my particular situation, few players and chances to play, all of my characters have at least one chronicle sheet from a scenario that I GM'd. My main character has 19 chronicles and has only been played in 8 scenarios, the rest were from GMing. But, I believe my situation is rare. And yes, there are many times I wished I lived somewhere else where I could play/GM more and actually attend cons with people I don't know.
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I suppose that I am more grousing than making a point. I should not presume that my views are the same as the OP community's, since I am an outlier.Now I could make a 12th level character this afternoon without ever having played it through a scenario.Sure, if you were a GM for 33 different modules. I'm not sure what your point is; you think you should have to "eat" 33 modules for this to be possible?Okay, let me rephrase.
I'm not sure what you're grousing about; do you think you should have to "eat" 33 modules for this to be possible, or do you think it shouldn't be possible at all?
No, I think you should play 33 scenarios (or thereabouts) for this to be possible. If you are eating 33 scenarios then obviously you aren't playing Pathfinder Society. Players shouldn't stick one person with GMing all the time, and they shouldn't have to be bribed with extra Chronicles to be a member of the gaming community and contribute. I got my local PFS community started in 2008 by requiring all players to take a turn behind the GM's sceen. Everyone took a turn and we all got a chance to play as well as appreciating the challenge of GMing. Back then no one got a reward for GMing, but we didn't need one because it was a community.
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No, I think you should play 33 scenarios (or thereabouts) for this to be possible. If you are eating 33 scenarios then obviously you aren't playing Pathfinder Society. Players shouldn't stick one person with GMing all the time, and they shouldn't have to be bribed with extra Chronicles to be a member of the gaming community and contribute. I got my local PFS community started in 2008 by requiring all players to take a turn behind the GM's sceen. Everyone took a turn and we all got a chance to play as well as appreciating the challenge of GMing. Back then no one got a reward for GMing, but we didn't need one because it was a community.
I know this subject has been beaten to death before and I am not going to go into a deep discussion as to the pros and cons. I do appreciate your opinion on this DougDoug, especially coming from the first 5 star GM. However, I would have to politely disagree to a certain extent. While if I was in a situation where I could play at least half the scenario's before GMing them I would tend to agree with you. However, I am in a situation where I GM about 3/4 of the scenario's without a chance to play them. So, I am thankful for the ruling on this subject. I know I'm in the minority on this, but in my situation, if Josh had ruled against giving credit for GMing, I would have never started playing PFS.
If you want to discuss this more, I'd be more than willing to discuss this on a different thread or privately. Admittedly I am green with envy over the opportunities that you and others on this messageboard have to participate in this hobby.
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No, I think you should play 33 scenarios (or thereabouts) for this to be possible. If you are eating 33 scenarios then obviously you aren't playing Pathfinder Society. Players shouldn't stick one person with GMing all the time, and they shouldn't have to be bribed with extra Chronicles to be a member of the gaming community and contribute. I got my local PFS community started in 2008 by requiring all players to take a turn behind the GM's sceen. Everyone took a turn and we all got a chance to play as well as appreciating the challenge of GMing. Back then no one got a reward for GMing, but we didn't need one because it was a community.I know this subject has been beaten to death before and I am not going to go into a deep discussion as to the pros and cons. I do appreciate your opinion on this DougDoug, especially coming from the first 5 star GM. However, I would have to politely disagree to a certain extent. While if I was in a situation where I could play at least half the scenario's before GMing them I would tend to agree with you. However, I am in a situation where I GM about 3/4 of the scenario's without a chance to play them. So, I am thankful for the ruling on this subject. I know I'm in the minority on this, but in my situation, if Josh had ruled against giving credit for GMing, I would have never started playing PFS.
If you want to discuss this more, I'd be more than willing to discuss this on a different thread or privately. Admittedly I am green with envy over the opportunities that you and others on this messageboard have to participate in this hobby.
I certainly see your point, and if for nothing if you and your group get to go to a con, you want to sit at the same table with your friends and to do that your going to need to have some GM rewards on a character if you DM quite abit. I'm a simular boat.
I doubt that we will see to many people with 12th level GM reward characters at GenCon this year.
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I doubt that we will see to many people with 12th level GM reward characters at GenCon this year.
There are several different points of view here, and different situations are different. However, I find the idea of getting credit more than once a bit much. As Doug Doug says, and I really believe this myself, GMing is it's own reward. A further incentive to give players motivation to cross over to the other side of the table is fine though. The player doesn't want to feel like he's loosing progress, so the 100% 'reward' for running the game is really fair for everyone. The player has incentive, the GM can have a decent character should he get to play. Beyond that? Not so much.
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I doubt that we will see to many people with 12th level GM reward characters at GenCon this year.There are several different points of view here, and different situations are different. However, I find the idea of getting credit more than once a bit much. As Doug Doug says, and I really believe this myself, GMing is it's own reward. A further incentive to give players motivation to cross over to the other side of the table is fine though. The player doesn't want to feel like he's loosing progress, so the 100% 'reward' for running the game is really fair for everyone. The player has incentive, the GM can have a decent character should he get to play. Beyond that? Not so much.
I have to admit that I don't, quite, understand your point here.
GMing a scenario for the first time is giving you almost the same credit, with almost the same restrictions, as though you were replaying the scenario to make a minimum table.
Different character,different faction, must take the appropriate tier/sub-tier rewards for that PC's current level.
In either case, after playing the same scenario 5 times, or playing it 4 times and GMing once, you can only ever play an iconic in that scenario in order to make a legal minimum table.
Until and unless PFSOP adds one or more new factions, of course. ;)
Then again, I built a new 1st level PC, different faction, when I was trying, futilely, to start up PFSOP at my game store out here, just so I could use him as a Chronicle sink, as I planned on starting out, at least, by running the scenarios that my primary PFSOP PC has already played in. Le sigh.
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I have to admit that I don't, quite, understand your point here.Sorry about that, my point is that weather playing the mod or running it you should get credit exactly once. Any other time you (re)play said mod (for whatever reason) it's should be out of love not reward.
And I like the fact that I can play it once and eat the adventure for a reward once.
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I am a HUGE fan of the play it once and GM Reward a different character once. Herald and I GM games every Friday and from time to time we don't get enough players for two tables and one of us gets to play. We'd lose that ability to do so wihout GM rewards as our players are past what our own characters would be without rewards. I've played once in 8 sessions. If we only get 6 players and two GM's That's a table of 7 playing at +1 APL. My own character w/o GM rewards would be level 1 with one chronicle and have to sit out.
I am in favor of what our Evil Overlords have done with GM rewards. Long live the King! God shave the Queen!
I am in favor of what our Evil Overlords have done with GM rewards. Long live the King! God shave the Queen!
I have no strong opinion on the issue. What made me turn neutral? Is it lust for gold, or was I just born with a heart full of neutrality? I cannot say.
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Since GM rewards have been argued to death again in the past, is there any way we could move this discussion out of the 2.2 FAQ and into a separate thread?
*For the Record, I am in favor of the GM rewards and don't think they're outrageous. If anything, they make play in a more personal home environment easier to manage level-wise, where only a handful of the players may actually GM.
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I think the issue may have gotten clouded. The topic was raised regarding the current policy allowing a player to get a Chronicle after completing a scenario, then to turn around and GM that same scenario and collect a 2nd Chronicle, giving them twice the number of Chronicles as someone who only plays. I have accepted that eating a scenario earns the GM a Chronicle, that is not what the discussion was originally over. This policy was developed from a quote by Josh but has not been adopted into a Guide to PFS Organized Play as of yet.
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I GMed for the first time at a local Con afew months back. I have a character who is 1st level. It is my understanding that my character will get none of the benefits from me DMing ie the experience/gold til I meet the bare mini for playing in that tier. In which the leveling in *Bursts* would likely occur. Which means I wont get the benefits til my character reaches 5th and 7th because they are the lowest tiers avaiable in those senarios that I DMed. Let me know if I got that right. Since I DMed it before June I will not get the PA rewards just the exp. Making sure I got this right before Gen-Con, because if I do get to play as a 2nd level character i want to make sure now and not mess up my paper work. Thank You!
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I GMed for the first time at a local Con afew months back. I have a character who is 1st level. It is my understanding that my character will get none of the benefits from me DMing ie the experience/gold til I meet the bare mini for playing in that tier. In which the leveling in *Bursts* would likely occur. Which means I wont get the benefits til my character reaches 5th and 7th because they are the lowest tiers avaiable in those senarios that I DMed. Let me know if I got that right. Since I DMed it before June I will not get the PA rewards just the exp. Making sure I got this right before Gen-Con, because if I do get to play as a 2nd level character i want to make sure now and not mess up my paper work. Thank You!
You almost have it. The first part is right, you can only apply your GM Reward Chronicle to your PC once that PC reaches the level of the minimum sub-tier (5 and later 7, as you said). However, your PC will get full gold, XP and PA. That rule has been in effect for a while now. No day job roll, no favors--but everything else.
Doug Doug's right that this issue needs further clarification and it will now in the next update (which instead of being 2.3 will likely be 3.1).
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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So, to clarify... if a PF player GMs a scenario first (before playing it), they get credit.
If a PF player plays a scenario that they have GMed, but doesn't give away the plot (cheat) and plays a different character with a different faction than the one that took the credit, he gets NOTHING?
Somehow I don't think that was the spirit of the GM reward either.
If so, then a lot of GMs will probably go back to playing so they can enjoy the experience of Pathfinder Organized Play rather than the "work" of being a GM.
I run two or more game sessions at our FLGS, as well as organize PFS for three local conventions. My fellow GMs and myself have always followed what we feel is the spirit of the GM rewards program. Yes, sometimes this gives us a second credit for a scenario (as a GM and then as a PC), but those circumstances are rare. Usually, this occurs when one of us calls up another to help fill a table that otherwise would not have enough players to be legal. As the person who GMs the majority of the time, I must say... most times I can play through a scenario (as a PC) that I have already run (as a GM)and have no remembrance of the specifics of that scenario. As a GM, there is just way to much to keep track of while running the game to memorize all five faction missions and the stat blocks of the monsters and villains, just in case I might get a chance to play it through as a PC.
Just my thoughts... sorry if it came across as a rant.
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So, to clarify... if a PF player GMs a scenario first (before playing it), they get credit.
If a PF player plays a scenario that they have GMed, but doesn't give away the plot (cheat) and plays a different character with a different faction than the one that took the credit, he gets NOTHING?
Somehow I don't think that was the spirit of the GM reward either.
No actualy given the senario you have given the person in question would get credit for playing the game.
However "Bob" runs PFS Senario x and get his GM credit for "eating" the senario on Friday. He then plays senario x on Saturday with his Andorian fighter making sure that he follows the rules. On Sunday he runs the senario again.
Bob only gets two senario sheets. Because Bob can only eat a senario once. Bob does however get credit for running two games that count towards his GM star total.
It would seem the mixup happens when people mix GM rewards with player rewards.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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"Two. No more than two."
That would be the limit on Chronicles per person then, as I interpreted it previously. Thanks... I was seriously thinking I had misinterpreted it the first time after reading some of the other responses. Good to know my GMs and I are following the rules!
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Good evening everyone. I'm hesitant bring this question up again, but there's been no official reply on the Heirloom Weapon trait since Josh said that he was considering whether it would be legal or not. Has a decition been made, or are we going to wait till Gen Con is over to decide this?
It is currently legal an will not (potentially) change status until the next rules release.
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I could be wrong (been known to happen), but my guess is that Josh will not remove it from play. I would think that if he felt it upset the balance of the game, it would already be gone. So, I am going foward with the thought it will remain approved for PFS play.
**and there will be great rejoicing among the multitude**
I hope to have 3.0 out by Friday.
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Something was recently present to me that I hadn't really thought of. I did a quick scan of the 2.2 rules and didn't see anything, however the most relevant part of the rules seems to be:
Note: items that you find during the scenario may be used during the scenario, but you have to purchase the item after the scenario is over in order for your character to be able to continue to use the item. This is most applicable to consumables such as potions, scrolls, and so on but can also apply to weapons, magic items, and so on.
So gold the party finds at the end of an encounter can be spent 'freely' during the course of this session and doesn't require to be tracked? If we find 100 gp on a lacky, and then turn around and slip a 100 gp bribe to someone else in the next act...that doesn't come out of the chronicle total nor needs to really be tracked in any other way?
Do I have this right, or am I missing something? Thanks!
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Something was recently present to me that I hadn't really thought of. I did a quick scan of the 2.2 rules and didn't see anything, however the most relevant part of the rules seems to be:
Note: items that you find during the scenario may be used during the scenario, but you have to purchase the item after the scenario is over in order for your character to be able to continue to use the item. This is most applicable to consumables such as potions, scrolls, and so on but can also apply to weapons, magic items, and so on.So gold the party finds at the end of an encounter can be spent 'freely' during the course of this session and doesn't require to be tracked? If we find 100 gp on a lacky, and then turn around and slip a 100 gp bribe to someone else in the next act...that doesn't come out of the chronicle total nor needs to really be tracked in any other way?
Do I have this right, or am I missing something? Thanks!
That's the way I've played it.
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That's the way I've played it.Something was recently present to me that I hadn't really thought of. I did a quick scan of the 2.2 rules and didn't see anything, however the most relevant part of the rules seems to be:
Note: items that you find during the scenario may be used during the scenario, but you have to purchase the item after the scenario is over in order for your character to be able to continue to use the item. This is most applicable to consumables such as potions, scrolls, and so on but can also apply to weapons, magic items, and so on.So gold the party finds at the end of an encounter can be spent 'freely' during the course of this session and doesn't require to be tracked? If we find 100 gp on a lacky, and then turn around and slip a 100 gp bribe to someone else in the next act...that doesn't come out of the chronicle total nor needs to really be tracked in any other way?
Do I have this right, or am I missing something? Thanks!
If have never ran it that way, I always assumed the gold was part of the end gold reward.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 4
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I hope to have 3.0 out by Friday.
I, for one, do not envy Mr. Frost - having to pour through the APG, deciding which race & class options, classes, feats, equipment, spells, and magic items will work well with our organized campaign, and which will mess it up. If he does get out 3.0 today, I'd like to know when he started going through the book.
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Something was recently present to me that I hadn't really thought of. I did a quick scan of the 2.2 rules and didn't see anything, however the most relevant part of the rules seems to be:
Note: items that you find during the scenario may be used during the scenario, but you have to purchase the item after the scenario is over in order for your character to be able to continue to use the item. This is most applicable to consumables such as potions, scrolls, and so on but can also apply to weapons, magic items, and so on.So gold the party finds at the end of an encounter can be spent 'freely' during the course of this session and doesn't require to be tracked? If we find 100 gp on a lacky, and then turn around and slip a 100 gp bribe to someone else in the next act...that doesn't come out of the chronicle total nor needs to really be tracked in any other way?
Do I have this right, or am I missing something? Thanks!
I don't believe you are correct. The quoted part of the guide is for consumables like potions & scrolls.
Gold spent would be tracked as gold spent.|
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I don't believe you are correct. The quoted part of the guide is for consumables like potions & scrolls.
Gold spent would be tracked as gold spent.
I agree with you and my belief is that it should be tracked as gold spent. The problem that concerns me is some people believe gold is a 'consumable' and the rule tacks on a generic 'and so on.'
I heard this recently from some GMs who I otherwise feel know what they are talking about, but this struck me as an incorrect interpretation.
So gold the party finds at the end of an encounter can be spent 'freely' during the course of this session and doesn't require to be tracked? If we find 100 gp on a lacky, and then turn around and slip a 100 gp bribe to someone else in the next act...that doesn't come out of the chronicle total nor needs to really be tracked in any other way?Do I have this right, or am I missing something? Thanks!
Incorrect. It may need clarification, but gold isn't an item--it's gold. Free spending untrackable gold goes against the gold balancing for the campaign. If you find gold, it's just included with your rewards and can be spent as part of YOUR money, not as part of some nebulous spiritual gold that doesn't need to be tracked.
When I say "items" I mean magic items, equipment items, weapons, armor, that sort of thing.
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So gold the party finds at the end of an encounter can be spent 'freely' during the course of this session and doesn't require to be tracked? If we find 100 gp on a lacky, and then turn around and slip a 100 gp bribe to someone else in the next act...that doesn't come out of the chronicle total nor needs to really be tracked in any other way?Do I have this right, or am I missing something? Thanks!
Incorrect. It may need clarification, but gold isn't an item--it's gold. Free spending untrackable gold goes against the gold balancing for the campaign. If you find gold, it's just included with your rewards and can be spent as part of YOUR money, not as part of some nebulous spiritual gold that doesn't need to be tracked.
When I say "items" I mean magic items, equipment items, weapons, armor, that sort of thing.
Awesome. The world make sense again. Thanks Josh!