Creative Director
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I thought I'd create this thread to find out what everyone's favorite level to play and adventure are at! Please drop in a post here and answer the following questions if you're interested:
1) What's your favorite experience level?
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
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I thought I'd create this thread to find out what everyone's favorite level to play and adventure are at! Please drop in a post here and answer the following questions if you're interested:
1) What's your favorite experience level?
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
1. 20+ Only played once, and it was probably the DM that made it for me.
2. Epic level crazy town goodness. My monk did wuxia jumps to catch falling comrades and ran up the front of a golem to give a grappled NPC a freedom of movement ring to escape.
3. Red Hand of Doom. Started 4th, forget what it ended since we never finished it. I think I liked the nonlinearness of it. Played it a couple times and it unfolded differently each time. Plus the encounters were pretty memorable.
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I thought I'd create this thread to find out what everyone's favorite level to play and adventure are at! Please drop in a post here and answer the following questions if you're interested:
1) What's your favorite experience level?
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
1. 1st - 12th levels
2. The game remains sane at these points. The PCs, while capable of doing crazy things, aren't quite as insane as PCs at higher levels. Likewise, the amount of crazy stuff that PCs can do is easily limited should the DM wish it (removal of long-range teleportation magic comes to mind for me). It's also much easier to home-brew adventures within this level band.
3. Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil; it's a module that, early on at least, doesn't pull any punches and the PCs have to be careful if they want to survive.
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I'm primarily a DM but I find the most fun levels for me to run are 2-7. It's mostly because in 3.5 those were the best levels to challenge my players with skills and classic monsters like goblinoids, orcs, gnolls, etc with more legendary monsters as bosses like chimeras, manticores, medusas.
Some of my favorite adventures are Mad God's Key, The Stink, Racing the Snake, Beast of Burden, the second half of Burnt Offerings, Seven days to the Grave, & Escape from Old Korvosa.
--Open Vrock is now Disable Device!
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1. 1-3 level as a DM and player. Not sure whether one or the other matters but some people may feel differently about playing or running a game.
2. I love the quick growth of a PC and the danger levels feel sharp. After that hit points seem to make life last a bit longer.
3. The Whispering Cairn ranks high for me. It is a very self-contained adventure which has some great twists and turns.
Cheers
I thought I'd create this thread to find out what everyone's favorite level to play and adventure are at! Please drop in a post here and answer the following questions if you're interested:
Since I mostly DM the last 10 years, I will answer as both Player and DM.
1) What's your favorite experience level?
Both: 7th - 10th
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
Both: Because as DM I can throw just about anything at the players (as a Player I can get just about anything thrown at me), and unless they are being really stupid, they survive and move on. It is also the levels where skills and feats come really into play, especially the non-combat skills.
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
Player: The first adventure that I played in. Temple of Elemental Evil. I had a Ranger from Unearthed Arcana, Gnal dan Torcan, who has a blast to play.
DM: The Bane Warrens (sp?). I stuck it in the middle of a series of modules that made up one of my campaigns, and the role (and roll) playing was great. It provided many opportunities for myself and my players to interact.
-- david
Papa.DRB
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1) 5th-6th level
2) Can't get taken out so easily, classes come into their own (fighters weap spec, 3rd level spells, etc)
3) Toss up- 1st ed I6 Ravenloft, 5th-7th. Was beautifully written, laid out and the timing was perfect- was playing a very hardcore no-nonsense LG cleric. Was a sense of fear, and Strahd was terrifying - vampires in 1st ed generally were terrifying, but we felt as a party if we played smart and did our homework we could pull it off.
Basic B2 Keep on the Borderlands 1st-3rd. Scary as hell, since one hit could take you out. Was my first adventure so nostalgia plays a role (wow, 28 years) but it was solid dungeon crawl before the concept even existed. Minotaur was bad ass.
Each of these modules had memorable moments, Bree-yark with the minotaur and the Strahd zombies rising up from the water in the torture room.
Note: Over the last 30 years or so, I've almost always been the DM, only playing as a player quite infrequently until the last year or two when I got into a group that has multiple DMs and rotates the DMing responsibility fairly frequently. So these answers are mostly from the DM perspective, but I beieve I would answer them the same from a player perspective anyway.
1) What's your favorite experience level?
For me, the higher the better. I am not really fond of epic, but I love the highest non-epic the most.
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
Primarily because I play lowbies all the time. Start a new campaign, oh, look, level 1 again. We make it to 8th, maybe 10th, then start a new campaign, level 1 again. I have seen and done everything the low levels have to offer, most of it over and over. But I hardly ever get to do high level stuff, so it's almost always refreshing and new.
As for epic, 3rd Edition did such a horrible job of epic levels, giving us whole new mechanics that didn't integrate with the characters we had built up for the last 20 levels, changing the entire game, and using stuff that outright just didn't work, that epic was essentially ruined - in my opinion.
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
The Shackled City. Mainly because it's the only adventure (adventure path I guess) where I've been able to delve into the upper levels since 1st edition D&D. I really need more upper level adventuring.
I thought I'd create this thread to find out what everyone's favorite level to play and adventure are at! Please drop in a post here and answer the following questions if you're interested:
1) What's your favorite experience level?
Well, I'm mainly a DM, so this is all from the perspective of running an adventure more than playing through one, but I think it still applies, hopefully. My favorite level range kind of depends on what sort of campaign it is, for focused, local adventures I like levels 1-8, for broader more open ended campaigns, that focus more on character driven goals I like 5-15.
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
For small scale stuff, 1-8 is great because it keeps the power level down a bit, there aren't too many really game breaking ways players can bypass obstacles, and I just feel like it encourages people to think outside the box a bit more. Instead of whipping out scry, they might try a bit of detective work, or roleplaying out some conversations with important sources of information, that sort of thing.
For larger character driven campaigns, 5-15 is great because it gives players the room to really stretch and grow, and to really see their character concept and goals coming together. At the high end it gives me the freedom to really cut loose with the bad guys too, I don't have to hold back and dumb down the encounters, because the players have fewer obvious weaknesses, and the weakness they do have they're capable of dealing with. I've had some great fun running massive hit and run fights with high intelligence Demons & Devils, taking advantage of illusions, battlefield control, flight and teleportation, things you just can't really do to a low level party without risking a tpk. Over 15 though, things start getting a bit too silly, the power level just goes nuts around 15, but it's manageable long enough to have a nice climactic finish, more than that though, and it gets tedious.
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
Eh, well, my favorite was something I wrote myself, so I'm not sure how much it would help. As for why it was my favorite, I guess it was the scale of it, altogether I ran it over the course of four campaigns and a few years, all with the same players, but with different parties each time. Starting at the very end of the story, running them from 1-12 in a really localized campaign with some hints of larger ties to the outside world, and something seriously climactic on the horizon, then I ran them through three different pivotal points in history with different characters, giving them the larger story of everything that was leading up to those climactic events they only had hints of in the beginning. At the very end, I brought them back to their old characters, and ran a final end game, from 12 to 16, letting them see the expansion of that original local campaign into a larger story.
I guess the way it all tied together is what did it for me.
Hope that helps.
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1) What's your favorite experience level?
I enjoy every level of gameplay since the best part of it is getting together with my friends. However, if I had to choose I would say probably 6-10th as a sweet spot.
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
6-10 because before this range is when I am solidifying the character, so by 6 usually I have a good history of games played to make the story come to life. After this range is where combats become more complicated and it tends to take longer to get through combat rounds.
3) My favorite adventure would have to be Ravenloft over the years. Most recently I got to play through a 3.5 version of Ravenloft and it was just a lot of fun fighting Strahd and Friends.
I thought I'd create this thread to find out what everyone's favorite level to play and adventure are at! Please drop in a post here and answer the following questions if you're interested:
1) What's your favorite experience level?
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
1, 7-12
2, You've had time to develop your character into something. At levels lower than 7 you're on your way somewhere but you haven't quite got there yet! At levels higher than 12 you're heading into dangerous encounter territory!
3, City of the Spider Queen [levels 10-18] This was the first adventure I ran as DM! [In at the deep end!] We didn't finish it but it was a scary adventure. The players really weren't ready for that level of play. They all got pretty messed up!
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1) What's your favorite experience level?
I love levels 1-6.
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
Two-fold answer:
a) As a player I love the mystery of making a new character and starting their new life as an adventurer. I enjoy the danger of potential death around every corner. Most of all I like the grittier play style where a mundane crossbow is still meaningful and powerful magic is something to aim for.
b) As a DM I love the simplicity of running adventures at low levels. Very few PC abilities to take into account, monsters are more numerous and diverse, and pretty much anything is a threat (like a rickety old rope bridge). It's easier to improvise varied-style adventure (ie. puzzle-solving, combat, roleplaying, etc).
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
Not to sound ingratiating, but Red Hand of Doom (from around level 5 to about 11).
Probably many more. It's not without its problems, for example I hated flipping to the back for statblocks early on. Some of the geography could have been clearer. Minor complaints, obviously.
As many others here, I DM most of the time. However, my answers are the same for Playing and DMing.
1. 7-20. If you want something more specific than that, I'd say 10-16.
2. It feels more fantastic to me. The lower-level games border on fictional history in many aspects. I want to see flying, levitation, and crazy melee nonsense. Also at this point, the players have been able to flesh out their combat abilities and then use additional feats/etc for more roleplaying aspects. At low levels, a 3rd-level character just wants to stay alive and concentrates too much on combat.
3. The Dragonlance campaign Price of Courage by MWP. 1-20, and it only literally got better with each level. So good, it changed my gaming outlook forever.
1) What's your favorite experience level?
I really enjoy levels 5-12th most but I like starting characters at 1st.
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
5th through 12 really gives the players a sense of wonder at the power their character has without everything being too crazy and instantly fatal.
I have to say though that I really like starting at 1st level, it gives players a real sense of progression with their characters.
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
Back in the day I loved Temple of Elemental Evil (original)... but it's hard to compare to modern games, I was a new player then and young. My favorite modern adventure is Red Hand of Doom, but I haven't had a chance to run or play any of the APs too much and they look quite good.
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1) What's your favorite experience level?
1st-3rd
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
All the challenges are more dangerous and thus more exciting.
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
The Ghost Tower of Inverness; we were 3rd level mostly. Great DM on a
roll that night-we still talk about that final attempt at capturing the Soul Gem. 2 of 5 PCs walked out of the tower.
1) What's your favorite experience level?
2-12
6
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
Good levels for character development, yet still you fear death quite often, usually resulting in more caution and tactical planning. Good amount of abilities & feats, but you are not yet uber-powerful, nor do you have to keep referencing all your abilities to try to remember what you can and can not do.
Its a good mix of all the above.
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
It's hard for me to answer, as for me adventure satisfaction is heavily reliant on the GM. If I try to eliminate the GM from the equation and just look at the overall story and flow of the adventure, then I'd probably go with Second Darkness Adventure Path. (We are only currently on the 3rd book, but I have enjoyed it so far. Its often hard to get some people in my group to play good-aligned characters, so this setting fits quite well.)
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1) What's your favorite experience level?
My favorite levels are about 5-9, with 3-4 second favorite and 10-12 third.
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
By about level 5 you start to feel that the character is yours. Lower than that and you're still building what makes him/her different than any other level 2 character, and after that things just get too over-the-top for my more gritty play style.
I also really enjoy group dynamics and resource management. Once you get into the 13+ range there's very little need to conserve and single players can dominate encounters. In the 5-9 sweet spot it's still a team game.
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
My favorite adventure was the Vault of Larin Karr (by Necromancer Games). It was for levels 3-9 and was set as a nearly completely open-ended adventure in a valley where the players were given a lot of leeway and flexibility to do whatever they pleased (outside the obvious need to keep them in the valley). I wish more adventures were written like this (The Lost City of Barakkas apparently was as well and was written by the same author). There was an underlying theme, and goals to accomplish, but it felt a lot like a city adventure (with intrigue and diplomacy galore) set in a more rural area. Honestly I've never seen anything quite like it since.
I'm a fan of anything around 5th- to 12th-level, though really I'm happy with almost any level :)
I thought I'd create this thread to find out what everyone's favorite level to play and adventure are at! Please drop in a post here and answer the following questions if you're interested:
1) What's your favorite experience level?
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
1 and 2. I dont have one. I like 3rd because that is normally when I have enough hp to reliably take more than one hit. Normally somewhere between 7th and 9th I finally feel as though my character is actually powerful.
14 and above allow me to do things that are borderline miraculous.3. I have normally played homebrews. The only published adventures I have experience with are Shackled City(player), Age of Worms(DM), and currently Rise of the Rune Lords(player). I like a game that is difficult, and does not have a lot of easy encounters. SCAP and AOW provide that element. RotRL is not as difficult, but it has a nice flow to the story line, as does AoW. I think AoW is a great AP, but I would use RotRL if I were introducing players to the game, because I have heard it has a better blend of RP'ing of and dungeon crawling.
All that typing, and I did not answer the question. I will say it is AoW for now.
PS: I hate starting out at level 1. Dying from one hit is not fun.
1) What's your favorite experience level?
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
1) Too hard for me to pick either a single level or even a range. It's all enjoyable to be honest.
2) see above
3) 1st edition: well, if I can count the GDQ modules as 1 "adventure", there you go; 2nd edition: Monte Cook's Labyrinth of Madness: my very favorite dungeon crawl of any edition, bar none. Part of what made it so cool was the art booklet; art is a HUGE factor (well, good art) in inspiring me when I play D&D. Which is why I love PF AP's of course, and the Paizo years covering Dungeon. 3rd edition: too many to choose from, as this has been the golden years of adventure design as far as I'm concerned.
But to get at why you're really asking this question, I think why some of us are clamoring for higher level adventures is b/c they are so few and far between. Plus, I like the epic scope of such things in general.
1 2.As a player, I prefer level 6. I usually feel like I can't play the character I actually want before 6th level. As a DM, I love 6-11 and 15-20, but always have a hard time with the 11-14 transition. You have to prepare the campaign to make that jump.
3. I loved running Tammeraut's Fate because it was a cool location (made moreso because I made it an enchanted pool in the middle of a desert). Also the end of Savage Tide because how could you have cooler locations and adversaries.
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Creative Director
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But to get at why you're really asking this question, I think why some of us are clamoring for higher level adventures is b/c they are so few and far between. Plus, I like the epic scope of such things in general.
True... but it's also telling that the majority of the posts on this thread so far are, as I expected they would be, centering on 7th level.
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1)I've only ever done 1-9th level in 3.5.
I don't suppose I have a favorite yet.
2)I mean, there's something to like and dislike about everything I suppose.
3)Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. I was young, my mom wouldn't buy it for me straight up, so I had to desperately hussle to get the $7.50 for that one.
The main thing was a monster section with a great gob of the coolest ass new monsters ever.
And the interior art was wild.
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Well, 7th is a bit of sweet spot for many reasons. Solid but still killable PCs, and from a DM perspective you still get to use many classic monsters (Chimera, hydras, Ropers, etc) to good effect. Still can get some good millage out of humanoids with class levels.
And again, from an old timers pov some of the best mods were in this range, Forbidden City, Ravenloft, Slaver series, and so on. I still love the low level mods (Hommlet, Keep) and those are critcal to getting to those sweet levels. BTW, you guys have done an OUTSTANDING job with Crypt of the Everflame.
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But to get at why you're really asking this question, I think why some of us are clamoring for higher level adventures is b/c they are so few and far between. Plus, I like the epic scope of such things in general.True... but it's also telling that the majority of the posts on this thread so far are, as I expected they would be, centering on 7th level.
Alot of that may have to due to the fact that many people never get to play High Level.
The majority of my gaming DMing and playing is 1-12, for me because of gaming group falls apart before we can get further.. But the most memorable games are all 15+.
Being military and moving a lot has it's disadvantages.
To answer your questions though..
1) What's your favorite experience level?
15+
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
My Favorite stories all involve political intrique, at low to mid levels you are the pawns, at high levels you become the master, It is alot more fun being the master ;-).
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
My favorite game I ever played in was not a published adventure, but it was a published setting, Planescape... We got deeply involved with the blood war
but for published adventures it would have to be the Vecna series, Are GM changed these adventures for mid to high level play and connected all 3. The high level story of going against a lich trying to become a demigod was awesome, and jumping between different planes was great to, from the material plane to Ravenloft, to Planescape.
Edit: Something of Note, The Majority of Gaming experience as a GM (Storyteller) and most memorable is not D&D but Vampire, The Majority of my Player experience is not D&D but Shadowrun
I have never played a PC past 13th level in 3.5. Not because I didn't want to, just because the time commitment required. I've been GMing more lately, and I see how it could be a serious burden.
Of what I have played, I like 3rd-5th when the players still have to traverse the environment and face normal danger on a day to day basis. I would like 1st and 2nd as well, but it can be hard to get into character that quick.
As for favorite module, I only recently began playing modules. Everything (and I mean everything) before Rise of the Runelords was homebrew. I'm having a ball with RotR, but I also own Legacy of Fire, and it looks most polished. It was really fun to play Howl of the Carrion King, so I'll put that in as my current favorite.
But to get at why you're really asking this question, I think why some of us are clamoring for higher level adventures is b/c they are so few and far between. Plus, I like the epic scope of such things in general.True... but it's also telling that the majority of the posts on this thread so far are, as I expected they would be, centering on 7th level.
Oh, absolutely. I have no doubt the posters clamoring for the higher levels (15-20) would statistically prove a minority. OTOH, it's only natural we'd like to get our hands on something that's not really represented (yet) in the PF world.
The same argument could be made for psionics, as I'm sure you could guess. Minority of players would want it, and even then, how to implement them creates its own problems. I don't envy you should you decide to do this. But maybe Dreamscarred Press will hit it out of the park and save you that trouble ;-)
In any case, I'm not complaining. I'm happy to get what I can get, regardless of level ranges, and what I can't get, I'll either get from another company or make up on my own. So it's all good from where I sit.
1) What's your favorite experience level?
10th-ish
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
It's high enough to be able to do some serious heroics without being so unconstrained that the DM has to resort to peculiar railroading story-elements.
Interestingly, pretty much across editions, the campaigns I've run and that I've played in tend to wind down around 12th level or so. It might vary by a few levels here or there, but its around 12th level.
That having been said, we usually didn't throw the characters out. We'd start a new campaign and play the heck out of it until the characters hit, say, 5-7th level, then we might go back for one big "one shot" with the old characters, which would hold us over for "high level" adventure for another few months.
Ironically, while I started playing in the 1st edition era, I never really got into any of the adventures published for that edition. Going into 2nd edition, I can't say that I have many good memories of the adventures that I did run.
We ran adventures from the Mists of Krynn and World of Krynn anthology, and the painfully terrible DLE series of Dragonlance adventures, and that experience taught me that I might like one or two ideas in an adventure, but most of it was going to rebuild.
I was a player in a few of the Fate of Istus adventures, and I enjoyed the sessions, but since I never saw the adventures, and since I know how much my friends and I used to swap around, I don't know if they were any good or if my DM just ad libbed and modified well.
Thinking back on it, the best adventure I can think of from the 2E era that I actually ran and enjoyed was Halls of the High King, a FR adventure set in the Moonshaes.
Now, going into 3rd edition, I had fun running people through the Whispering Cairn, and I had some fun TPKing my kids (I'm a cruel father) in the Twilight Tomb adventure. I loved the first two parts of Rise of the Runelords, but I do think I liked Skinsaw Murders more than Burt Offerings, but only by a little.
But to get at why you're really asking this question, I think why some of us are clamoring for higher level adventures is b/c they are so few and far between. Plus, I like the epic scope of such things in general.True... but it's also telling that the majority of the posts on this thread so far are, as I expected they would be, centering on 7th level.
Yeah, that saddens me actually.
In a world where I can buy 100 adventures for single-digit levels, and a coupld score more for low teens, but nothing for upper teens-20, it sure would be nice if someone was cranking out a few of those levels.
Then again, none of my players in my group are terribly interested in that level range either, despite the fact that they all unaimously state they've never played those levels. Reminds me a little of my kids...
Kids: Oooh, I don't like curly fries. I don't want them.
Me: They taste exactly like straight fries. You like french fries.
Kids: Yeah, but I don't want these.
Me: Tastes exactly the same!
Kids: Yuck. Don't want them.
Me: How do you know? You didn't even try them...
Kids: I just know...
Oh well, I guess there are no adventures for those levels because nobody would buy them. Kinda makes sense, in a sad way.
Maybe when we finish Council of Thieves, I'll trick them into a a home-grown extension. I'll tell them it's like when their favorite video game sells a new expansion and raises the level cap...
Time to dust off that old Tomb of Horrors...
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But to get at why you're really asking this question, I think why some of us are clamoring for higher level adventures is b/c they are so few and far between. Plus, I like the epic scope of such things in general.True... but it's also telling that the majority of the posts on this thread so far are, as I expected they would be, centering on 7th level.
But will Pathfinder RPG change that? Has it shifted the "sweet spot" higher or lower? It would be interesting to revisit this topic in a month or year to see what PRPG players feel.
1. Favorite experience level is a range. I most enjoy levels 1-6 both as a player and a DM.
2. I like the lower level stuff as a player mostly because of the sense of danger around every corner. When your PC walks into a situation, the outcome is almost always in doubt. I enjoy putting together a character at level 1 and each new level gained then feels meaningful because the character is slowly becoming more powerful and is beginning to be able to survive the rigors of adventuring more easily.
From a DM perspective, I like running levels 1-6 because challenging a party of adventurers is much easier at those levels than it is at higher levels. Often I feel with higher level play that it is a crapshoot as to whether something thrown at a party will be challenging, overpowering or too weak.
3. As a player my favorite modules have probably been an old Mayfair Roleaids module called Shipwrecker, although I have to admit that we really went off-course in that adventure as a group but to the DMs credit, he managed to adjust to our antics. I also enjoyed I6 Ravenloft quite a bit.
As a DM, I really enjoyed running Red Hand of Doom. That module was nicely laid out, allowed the PCs a great deal of latitude in how they went about things and was just an easy module to run. For an older module that I really loved, look no farther than U1 The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh. I thought it was a great introductory module with a couple of cool adventure sites (haunted house and ship) and I loved the way the town of Saltmarsh was presented. It gave basic facts about the town and left it for the DM to develop as he or she saw fit.
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1. I like playing the lower levels, but I love playing the higher levels.
2. One reason it's so hard for a DM to run higher levels is the lack of adventures, thus home-run campaigns, which are tricky in themselves.
I don't particularly like the 3.0 epic handbook, but I did very much enjoy playing epic. A lot of awesome stories happened. Dying isn't so important with True Ressurrections around, so you can focus more on the bigger story without having to worry about saving your own skin so much.
In low levels, if characters don't succeed, the world doesn't end. At higher levels, it certainly could.
Finally, WHAT is the point of all these awesome capstones when our characters will never get to use them??
That just depresses me when I think about my characters in the Pathfinder RPG. My ranger will never be a master hunter, my destined sorceress will never get auto crit confirms and other lovely things.
Finally, WHAT is the point of all these awesome capstones when our characters will never get to use them??
That just depresses me when I think about my characters in the Pathfinder RPG. My ranger will never be a master hunter, my destined sorceress will never get auto crit confirms and other lovely things.
I totally agree. I love to see the possibilities for the really upper levels. There are capstones, and feats with requiremens so high that nobody in a typical AP will ever meet the prerequisites, and of course spells that will never be cast, magic items that will never be used, etc.
So, for the most part, those are forever just possibilities and pipe dreams, rarely if ever to be realized.
I'm all for playing in or running a higher level game, I just really enjoy the lower levels.
If my campaign is fortunate enough to last long enough to make it to the high levels, I will certainly continue running it until I feel it's played out. Likewise for the game I'm a player in. It will be interesting to see what my character will be able to do by the time he is level 12...15...18.
With regards to the original question, I really like the low levels the best. There is the possibility though that my preference might change either as a player or a DM when and if the campaigns I'm running and playing in reach high levels.
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I prefere to start out fresh at 1st level, but I've also been in so many games that never make it past a few sessions that I'm honestly burn out on it.
My favorate levels for play are honestly 10+. I've only played Epic a few times, and it was great, but only for short times, and DM's usually are extremely railroady for starting out epic games. In my opinion. If you start out at 10 - 15 and earn epic though, it's a different story.
I prefer 10th and higher, because you can really start establishing your character, mechanically. You have feats and enough levels to devote to a prestige class to actually define your character for what you want it to be.
You can also pull of some very cool and amazing things. Raise the dead, turn a person to dust, literally, actually call down divine wrath, or flood a room with holiness that turns a Lich to dust, things like that. In 3E, itl's for me when spellcasters really start feeling like spellcasters rather than 1/day 1-trick ponies.
Favorate adventure is Ravenloft, either original or Exp. To Castle Ravenloft. It really felt like it challenged the group far more than with just numbers, and I also really like that it changes each time. Even the new version gives the players the sense of achievement that D&D has lacked for some time. In the old days, saying that you'd survived Castle Greyhawk or Elemental Evil was bragging rights. To me, 3E adventures don't really feel that way, though I haven't played through the PF adventure paths yet, Age of Worms had that same feeling for me, and gives me hope.
I still think a module could be made within higher levels, and turn profit. Black and white print, non-gloss pages, minimal to no art. I guarantee you'd sell enough that it would overcome the minimal cost.
But I'll leave it alone there, I don't want to derail the thread too much. :)
1) What's your favorite experience level?
7th-12th
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
I almost invariably play melee or stealth/skill types, and even when I do play casters, I almost always multi-class into a melee or stealth/skill class as well.
That being said, 7th-12th is when I really feel my characters are coming into themselves. They have enough skill ranks and feats, as well as class abilities, to model what I see as the character in my mind's eye. Also, if they have a prestige class, they usually have at least a few levels of it by this point, making me feel like they really are an "Eldritch Knight" or whatever, and not just some upstart.
This is also the level range I usually figure most movie's hero characters fall into.
As for gameplay, with the feats and other combat options opened up, this is tactically the most fun for me.
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
Honestly, I don't think I've ever played in a published adventure, it's always been homebrew adventures.
But I am getting ready to run a Pathfinderized Shackled City AP for some of my friends. The story really hooked me back when I read the adventures in Dungeon.
I still think a module could be made within higher levels, and turn profit. Black and white print, non-gloss pages, minimal to no art. I guarantee you'd sell enough that it would overcome the minimal cost.
Actually, I think there's a really good argument to be made that the economics of distributing adventures as PDF's might make these sort of marginal adventure modules profitable. Of course, there's still the cost of hiring artists/designers, just because there's a certain minimum level or polish people are going to grumble about if they don't get.
I still think a module could be made within higher levels, and turn profit. Black and white print, non-gloss pages, minimal to no art. I guarantee you'd sell enough that it would overcome the minimal cost.
But I'll leave it alone there, I don't want to derail the thread too much. :)
Oh, no, please don't do that.
I still remember the Immortals boxed set with the cover art showing the heroes wading thigh-deep in molten lava.
There is so much amazing and awesome stuff high-level characters can do, and so many horrifying high-CR monsters out there, it would be tragic to publish any high level content without the mind-bending art that should accompany it.
First to eleventh.
I am running RotRL under beta rules. The party is twelfth level, and is hacking through Runeforge. Combat time has swollen to fill whole sessions. Buffing takes an hour of real time. Everything is getting swingy. I am having to do homework for enemies for the first time in years. Combat is mostly about initiative and saving throws now. The fighter sometimes only gets two hits in before the cleric and invoker finish the fight. The ranger is pretty useless with her bow.
Much headache, little fun.
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I thought I'd create this thread to find out what everyone's favorite level to play and adventure are at! Please drop in a post here and answer the following questions if you're interested:
1) What's your favorite experience level?
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
1. lvl 13 to 18
2. The characters are really starting to come into their own at these levels, lots of interesting things the characters can do. So many options and abilities for the players/DM that I find things all stay interesting. Often at lower level I find I am just going through motions of battles because it is required to get to at least lvl 5.
3. City of the Spider Queen. One of few adventures actually set up to let players stay in higher level ranges for entirety of combat. The battles remained challenging throughout.
First to eleventh.
I am running RotRL under beta rules. The party is twelfth level, and is hacking through Runeforge. Combat time has swollen to fill whole sessions. Buffing takes an hour of real time. Everything is getting swingy. I am having to do homework for enemies for the first time in years. Combat is mostly about initiative and saving throws now. The fighter sometimes only gets two hits in before the cleric and invoker finish the fight. The ranger is pretty useless with her bow.
Much headache, little fun.
I'm feeling you, there.
I'd suggest raising the CR through extra minions who can cast dispel magic on the buffed-out wizard, or immobilize the rogue.IME, as the 3.5 manual suggests, you need to take the gloves off. High-level parties can blow through so many obstacles, it's not funny.
Make the charging fighter fall into an illusory pit. Make the sorcerer's spells fail inexplicably. Set time limits on how soon the BBEG will sacrifice the virgin they have to save. If they don't get there fast, she'll die horribly. Put traps in the way that will slow them down, and ensure a very close climax.
The hardest part of GMing a high-level campaign is remembering all the things your baddies can do. Just running a dragon is a lot of work. They've got so many things they can do, it's easy to miss something that could have really screwed the party.
I have trouble playing high-level PCs, sometimes. They've got a huge list of possible actions. As a GM, you have so many bad guys, and they're all different. Same problem, but with different creatures you haven't carefully built from 1st level.
If they're losing, they won't stand around and wait to be killed. They'll abandon their minions, get away, and rebuild their evil scheme and plot their revenge on the PCs later. Recurring villains are under-utilized, IMHO.
I had a DM who played us up to 21st. One time, he threw up his hands after we wiped out 3 really tough dragons in about 7 rounds. I understood his frustration. The problem was that we had plenty of time to buff and spent about 1/3 of our spells doing just that. We were scared, and prepared ourselves to the bejesus belt!
If the dragons had all flown out of their lair while we were buffing, it would have been much worse for the PCs.
For a high-level fight, presume that the BBEG has some info on what the PCs are doing (he should have some spies or spells for that), and took measures to make things hard for them. He doesn't have all day to get ready, and neither should they.
At any level, a prepared party has an easy time of things. Don't give them so much time. Casters can't renew spells with less than a good night's sleep. Keep them awake. Let them get fatigued.
As for the original question, I like levels 1-20 or more. It's all good!
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1. I like levels 6-10 best, but I really enjoy playing a character from the beginning.
2. I think the mid-levels have a good balance of powers and chance for death. The chance of death is real enough for me that there is suspense, but I am not so powerful that if I die, I am probably also annihilated.
3. AD&D Against the Giants, about levels 5-14. Admittedly, my DM created much more of a story than the module creates, but I have wonderfully vivid images of the Steading, climbing the cliffs on the way to the Hall of the Frost Jarl, Queen Frupe's funeral, and Eclavdra.
1) From lvl 6 to 10
2) Because from lvl 1 to 6 the classes are all very close(meaning cant tell a lvl 2 fighter from a lvl 2 ranger), casters have yet to be worthwhile. From lvl 6 to 10 I find you can get the most out of the classes and actaully have some decent skills and feats, also its easy to DM those lvls because after lvl 10 it becomes harder to match monsters to the players.
3) any Forgotten Realm Campaign
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I thought I'd create this thread to find out what everyone's favorite level to play and adventure are at! Please drop in a post here and answer the following questions if you're interested:
1) What's your favorite experience level?
2) Why is that your favorite experience level?
3) What's your favorite adventure, and what level was it for? Why is it your favorite adventure?
1: 12-16 Is a lot of fun, but I absolutely adore anything above level 21. Epic is such fun when your DM rocks.
2: 12-16 You're powerful, but not that powerful. Also, 12-16 can get really fun with messing around on other Planes.
As for 21+, I have to say every Epic session I have played thus far has been some of the most EPIC RPing I have done in a long time. It's hard to run Epic Games; but if you tone down on the damage a bit and mess around with some rules, Homebrew Epic is a ton of fun.
3: It's a tie between two adventures:
Tomb of Horrors: So deadly, I love ToH so much because it's the most Puzzle-esque Dungeon I have tried to date.
A Homebrew Epic level Far Realm Cosmic Invasion Adventure. Need I say moar?
Oh well, I guess there are no adventures for those levels because nobody would buy them. Kinda makes sense, in a sad way.
I don't quite get this statement as I am currently perusing my Epic Level Handbook complete with 3-4 full out level 25+ Adventures >.>
I have never played a PC past 13th level in 3.5. Not because I didn't want to, just because the time commitment required. I've been GMing more lately, and I see how it could be a serious burden.
Honestly, GM'ing past 13th is a big burden and it only gets worse. I GM'd the Crimson Throne AP. Once we hit the last book, I just fast tracked them to the final battle, because I was just sick of the amount of preparation time I was having to put in. One to two page long stat blocks -- usually of which I would forget something important. So many foes I remember studying to ensure I understood all their abilities and how to play them in battle, which often ended on round 2. So all the prep work was a waste of time. Most of the players were using excel spreadsheets to help manage their characters.
I ran that series, because our former GM gave his campaign in the high levels for all the same reason. He actually said he would never run a 3.5 campaign again. I now feel the same way, but I have decided that I will scale any campaign I run to go from levels 1 to 10ish (maybe 12, but that would be the limit).
As much as I like having access to a bunch of feats that helps me tailor my character to my choosing, I hate having to micro-manage my character, and having to frequently flip through reference books to remember what my feats/abilities can do. As a new player to 3.5 I remember feeling overwhelmed about this, and I was always forgetting the conditional bonuses and abilities (like declaring a dodge target).