O.K., I fixed the tense in my original statement.Yes, although if they nerfed the spiked chain but are going to leave the bladed scarf the way it is, my brain's going to explode.The bladed scarf is not in the PFRPG. If and when we update it, it'll be addressed then.
What makes you think they are going to leave it the way it is?
What makes you think they are going to leave it the way it is?
What made you miss the word "if" in my sentence?
I saw it, but it sounded so sceptical :)
Maybe the problem is that the feat "Exotic Weapon" was itself broken?
Arcana Unearthed split all exotic weapons into "Heavy" and "Agile" ones (with "Agile" including ranged weapons), with the additional prereqs of Strength or Dexterity 15+. You could also make "dire" (+2 damage) or "devanian" (can use one-handed weapon as a light weapon) versions of normal weapons, requiring heavy or agile EWP to use them properly.
Maybe that is the answer to all the problems. As an old Runequest gamer it kind of makes sense to have certain weapons have prereqs to use. Get rid of th exotic weapon feat to use a Bastard Sword one handed but have a minimum STR of X, can't use a spiked chain unless DEX is X. It makes sense to me that a fighter with a DEX of 8 flails away with a spiked chain whilst a DEX of 15 it can be used effectivly.
Anyway this is a fantasy game. So anything can happen!
The bladed scarf is not in the PFRPG. If and when we update it, it'll be addressed then.Yes, although if they nerfed the spiked chain but left the bladed scarf the way it is, my brain's going to explode.The Spiked Chain got nerfed? Great, it was the worst addition to 3.0.
All together goofy.
Hopefully it will be addressed in here
Honestly,
The chain was good and it's abilities were pretty close to reality. Unfortunately, as has been said before, it's downsides were not addressed at all in game. So it's either add in that you can hurt yourself when using it (and yes, a high level has a bigger chance of hurting himself in a round of combat than a farmer, but the farmer has less chance of killing a wolf than the fighter either, so those even out, as was stated above) or nerf the abilities to unrealistic but don't penalize the player. Personally, I'd have put a mechanic on it that on a confirmed critical failure (Roll a 1, roll to confirm you miss) you'd hurt yourself with the weapon. A high level fighter is unlikely to confirm a critical failure with the weapon, while Joe Farmer probably will, but occasionally he'll roll two 1's in a row.
As to feats for exotic weapons, I've honestly always preferred Mr. Cooke's weapon group feats from Unearthed Arcana. I use them in my games all the time. They just work better, and give the players another way to 'customize' their build (Axe vs blade vs polearm vs whip/chain etc).
I'm tired of spikes.
Armor spikes, spiked gaintlets, spiked shields, spiked chains, dire animals with spikes growing out of them, Spike TV... for the love of God, can't we do anything to cut down on the amount of spikes in the game? It's like an S&M fest gone bad.
I'm exceedingly curious about what the Spiked Chain's new stats have become.
As it was, it was the only exotic weapon worth spending a feat on. I'm terribly sorry, but I see no reason to be mechanically impaired (read, shorted a feat) just to use a weapon that is stylistic. IF it isn't worth spending a feat on, it should be no better than Martial. Making it exotic and making you feel stupid for spending a feat on it is ridiculous. I wouldn't spend a feat on the Bastard Sword, the Dwarven Waraxe, the whip, the hand crossbow, or pretty much any other exotic weapon in the SRD, but the spiked chain rewards you for using that feat. Shouldn't spending a feat reward someone, rather than penalizing them? I mean, sure, PFRPG gives people more feats, but there's still only so many.
Note to the rest of the board . . . hide anything related to Zon-Kuthon from Kirth . . . shhh . . .
Okay, so if the spiked chain is statistically the same, but without reach, then you spend a feat to use a two-handed melee weapon with a lower threat range and less max damage than the heavy flail.
So you might as well just wield a heavy flail and call it a spiked chain if that's the flavor you're going for. Terrible.
Okay, so if the spiked chain is statistically the same, but without reach, then you spend a feat to use a two-handed melee weapon with a lower threat range and less max damage than the heavy flail.
Look up the spiked chain in 3.5... now remove any reference to 10'reach. That's it.
In general I agree with you about exotic weapons. They are basically a holding place for racial weapons and monk weapons now.
I'm sure some people will still put feats into exotics much as some folks drop a feat on bastard sword currently.
Or maybe just leave spiked chain out of the book, so that if people wanted to houserule it back into the game, the way it used to work, they can, but if a GM wanted to run a "core" game he doesn't have to worry about specifically banning it.
I'm tired of spikes.
I spike Kirth drink while he's looking away.
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In truth, long chain weapons are quite dangerous and unpredictable for the wielder. My favored solution would be to leave all the advantages in the 3.5 weapon, but have it automatically fumble on a roll of 1, dealing damage to the wielder. More than any other weapon, it is easy to see the spiked chain wielder hurting themselves accidentally.
Maybe this isn't the best solution, just an idea. But in real life*, the reason long chain weapons are so rare is precisely because if this unpredictability. Even with short chain weapons, a nunchaku expert occasionally hits him/herself pretty hard.
I'd combine the unpredictability with the unconscionable space requirement. You want to sing something around and hit somebody 10 feet away? Then I'd recommend standing at least 10' away from your pals.
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I'm exceedingly curious about what the Spiked Chain's new stats have become.
As it was, it was the only exotic weapon worth spending a feat on. I'm terribly sorry, but I see no reason to be mechanically impaired (read, shorted a feat) just to use a weapon that is stylistic. IF it isn't worth spending a feat on, it should be no better than Martial. Making it exotic and making you feel stupid for spending a feat on it is ridiculous. I wouldn't spend a feat on the Bastard Sword, the Dwarven Waraxe, the whip, the hand crossbow, or pretty much any other exotic weapon in the SRD, but the spiked chain rewards you for using that feat. Shouldn't spending a feat reward someone, rather than penalizing them? I mean, sure, PFRPG gives people more feats, but there's still only so many.
Wait...so you admit that from your perspective, you wouldn't take any of the exotic weapons except the spiked chain. So Pathfinder goes and nerfs the spiked chain so it's now balanced with the rest of the exotics, and you complain that it's no longer the only unbalanced exotic.
Maybe the complaint should be that the rest of the exotics weren't worth the feat? Personally, I like the change, and am content to let people take a feat (of which there are now far more available to each character) for something that gives a small crunch bonus and a large fluff bonus, if they really want the style of such a weapon.
Compared to the other exotics, it was definitely too good - however, none of the other (core) exotics were really worth a feat. Personally, what I would have liked to see for the chain is retaining the reach, and the ability to strike adjacent foes...but not at once. You pick at the start of your turn if it's a reach weapon (and can't strike close targets) or a double weapon (and doesn't have reach but is...well, a double weapon, with all the options that entails), and it stays that way until the start of your next turn.
Compared to the other exotics, it was definitely too good - however, none of the other (core) exotics were really worth a feat. Personally, what I would have liked to see for the chain is retaining the reach, and the ability to strike adjacent foes...but not at once. You pick at the start of your turn if it's a reach weapon (and can't strike close targets) or a double weapon (and doesn't have reach but is...well, a double weapon, with all the options that entails), and it stays that way until the start of your next turn.
This could have been a good thing to do.
I never considered the spiked chain as too good. It was a really good weapon and one of the few that worth taking the Exotic Weapon feat. In my opinion, the problem in 3.5 came more from the Improved Trip feat whose free attack if target is tripped was an insane bonus : you could put your opponent in a bad situation and still make him a lot of damages !!
When I 1st read the Legacy of Fire Player Guide and I saw the spiked-chain-like weapon that could be used as two-headed weapon or a reach weapon, I thought Pathfinder was going to change the spiked chain that way.
Too bad they didn't !!
I'm exceedingly curious about what the Spiked Chain's new stats have become.
As it was, it was the only exotic weapon worth spending a feat on. I'm terribly sorry, but I see no reason to be mechanically impaired (read, shorted a feat) just to use a weapon that is stylistic. IF it isn't worth spending a feat on, it should be no better than Martial. Making it exotic and making you feel stupid for spending a feat on it is ridiculous. I wouldn't spend a feat on the Bastard Sword, the Dwarven Waraxe, the whip, the hand crossbow, or pretty much any other exotic weapon in the SRD, but the spiked chain rewards you for using that feat. Shouldn't spending a feat reward someone, rather than penalizing them? I mean, sure, PFRPG gives people more feats, but there's still only so many.
Wait...so you admit that from your perspective, you wouldn't take any of the exotic weapons except the spiked chain. So Pathfinder goes and nerfs the spiked chain so it's now balanced with the rest of the exotics, and you complain that it's no longer the only unbalanced exotic.
Maybe the complaint should be that the rest of the exotics weren't worth the feat? Personally, I like the change, and am content to let people take a feat (of which there are now far more available to each character) for something that gives a small crunch bonus and a large fluff bonus, if they really want the style of such a weapon.
No, I complained that all the exotic weapons, sans the spiked chain, weren't worth spending a feat on - spend a feat on EWP Bastard Sword for an average of 1 more point of damage. Spend a feat on the hand crossbow for... well, no one spends a feat there, because you can't even reload it onehanded, so you're still better off with a light crossbow.
Historically, EWP has been a poor choice for a feat, unless you're going for the spiked chain. I've been playing 3.0/3.5 since it came out, and I've only seen the spiked chain used twice - once by me in a one shot, and once by a cleric in my last ongoing game. It's not so broken that everyone was carrying one - it was worth a feat. Now, there's no reason to spend a feat on it. There's no crunch benefit to doing so at all - just buy a heavy flail, describe it as a length of chain, and you're mechanically superior AND have an extra feat. I see no reason to charge someone a feat for something that a single level dip in fighter, paladin, ranger, or barbarian gets them a better choice for instead.
What is it with people wanting to penalize characters for "flavor" reasons? Flavor is mutable - if I want my greatsword to look like Cloud's Buster Sword, then it does. I don't need to spend a feat for it (unless I want to get a statistical benefit, and then, maybe it's worth taking Monkey Grip and wielding a large greatsword). If I want to be wielding a length of chain like Jackie Chan, then I can just reflavor the heavy flail. Honestly, I don't see why I couldn't reduce the damage and/or threat range and make it finessable and still have it be martial.
The point of my post was that there were no core Exotics that were worth a feat except the Spiked Chain. It wasn't broken. It was just useful.
I guess I'll just default back to the Kusari Gama - onehanded for TWF fun, and it still wasn't terrible, even on my scout/dervish.
OK, I'm the original poster to this thread, and I'm 'guilty' of having spent a feat on a spiked chain for the following character build: A Psion who took levels of Psionic Warrior to get the Expansion power so that he could become large, have a range reach of 20', a use both Combat Reflexes and Improved Trip. I'm playing primarily in the living campaign www.TheShiningJewel.com which is converting from 3.5 to Pathfinder at Gencon. www.TheShiningJewel.com.
I viewed the character as a 'support' role in the party, especially that first round or two, and it allowed me and my party to 'control' the battlefield by reducing opponent movement.
Tripping someone and then disarming them once they went down was a lot of fun and really helped our group as I could get two AoO's on the opponent before he could even fight again.
Alas, my entire character concept was built on these feats, and it was VERY powerful, but then again so are Psions.
I now have to completely rethink the character concept, from trip monkey to something else. I'll probably start by walking around with a guisarm, and then move to a falchion once combat starts since I'll still be able to react while Flat Footed.
I'm now starting to think that the entire 'exotic weapons' concept could be done better, from giving certain classes the ability to add an exotic weapon to to their proficient weapons list every 3 levels, to having the feat give you 2 exotic weapons, or one 'type' (Slashing) of weapon.
I do like what an earlier poster said about certain weapons coming into being because 'regular' weapons were illegal to own. Therefore one solution would be to give an exotic weapon proficiency at the cost of two 'other' weapons that you would normally be proficient. This might especially be true for non-fighters who aren't proficient in that many weapons.
Use a standard melee reach weapon and armor spikes. Then you threaten near and far.
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Use a standard melee reach weapon and armor spikes. Then you threaten near and far.
Heh not in my games, in my games armour spikes have a 0' reach and therefor don't threaten adjacent squares, also attacking with them requires entering the opponents space and therefor provokes an AoO, armor spikes are good for grappling in my games and not much else.
Armor spikes come into play when grappling I thought. Requiring the use of the funky CMB/CMD mechanic.
Now that I'm going to drop Combat Expertise and Improved Trip, I still want a weapon that will give me reach AND near attacks for when I enlarge myself. If they had a weapon that did that but couldn't be used for trip, it still be very useful for those cases where you enlarge.
Use a standard melee reach weapon and armor spikes. Then you threaten near and far.Heh not in my games, in my games armour spikes have a 0' reach and therefor don't threaten adjacent squares, also attacking with them requires entering the opponents space and therefor provokes an AoO, armor spikes are good for grappling in my games and not much else.
Then take improved unarmed strike, as suggested above.
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No, I complained that all the exotic weapons, sans the spiked chain, weren't worth spending a feat on - spend a feat on EWP Bastard Sword for an average of 1 more point of damage. Spend a feat on the hand crossbow for... well, no one spends a feat there, because you can't even reload it onehanded, so you're still better off with a light crossbow.
Historically, EWP has been a poor choice for a feat, unless you're going for the spiked chain. I've been playing 3.0/3.5 since it came out, and I've only seen the spiked chain used twice - once by me in a one shot, and once by a cleric in my last ongoing game. It's not so broken that everyone was carrying one - it was worth a feat. Now, there's no reason to spend a feat on it. There's no crunch benefit to doing so at all - just buy a heavy flail, describe it as a length of chain, and you're mechanically superior AND have an extra feat. I see no reason to charge someone a feat for something that a single level dip in fighter, paladin, ranger, or barbarian gets them a better choice for instead.
Wait...I'm confused. Maybe you didn't actually read what I said? Because you said "no" and then proceeded to agree with what I wrote - that you don't think the rest of the exotics are worth the feat. I don't personally agree, because I've seen many of the others used in my gaming groups, but if your view is that there was only one exotic that was ever worth the feat, doesn't that strike you as being a bit unbalanced?
Okay, there is really a simple solution here. If you don't like theway that the spiked chain was treated, house rule it back to the 3.5 way of doing things. The only place whre this won't work is is in organized play.
Of course you can house rule it. But it's still fun to debate whether it was a good change or not. :-)
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... if your view is that there was only one exotic that was ever worth the feat, doesn't that strike you as being a bit unbalanced?
With respect, it might be unbalanced, but --as someone who agrees with DoS-- I don't think that diminishing Spiked Chain was the right way to balance the situation. Better, I think, would have been to augment other exotic weapons to bring them closer to parity.
I say this as someone who thinks that different weapons out to feel as different as possible. I admit I still have a soft spot for Weapon Speed Factors and Space requirements. (Greatsword in a sewer tunnel? I don't think so.)
Okay, there is really a simple solution here. If you don't like theway that the spiked chain was treated, house rule it back to the 3.5 way of doing things. The only place whre this won't work is is in organized play.
David are you familiar with the Oberoni Fallacy?
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Spiked Chain was not the only Exotic Weapon to spend a feat on. Many people did in fact go with the Bastard Sword. There are other sthough. Dwarven WarAxe, Murcurial _____sword, Maul, Elven Thinblade, Warmace, and some few others in 3x.
They where good because they excelled at doing something that you wanted to do. Making them weaker, just makes the game that much less fun. Balance is not the end all of gaming.
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Okay, there is really a simple solution here. If you don't like theway that the spiked chain was treated, house rule it back to the 3.5 way of doing things. The only place whre this won't work is is in organized play.David are you familiar with the Oberoni Fallacy?
Yes. Of course you are failing to take into account the Shekmet Fallacy.
Historically, EWP has been a poor choice for a feat, unless you're going for the spiked chain. I've been playing 3.0/3.5 since it came out, and I've only seen the spiked chain used twice - once by me in a one shot,...
I guess you've never seen the Spiked Chain/Improved Trip/Combat Reflexes Trip Monkey Build in action then.
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... if your view is that there was only one exotic that was ever worth the feat, doesn't that strike you as being a bit unbalanced?With respect, it might be unbalanced, but --as someone who agrees with DoS-- I don't think that diminishing Spiked Chain was the right way to balance the situation. Better, I think, would have been to augment other exotic weapons to bring them closer to parity.
I say this as someone who thinks that different weapons out to feel as different as possible. I admit I still have a soft spot for Weapon Speed Factors and Space requirements. (Greatsword in a sewer tunnel? I don't think so.)
Again, that's exactly the point I was trying to make in my first post - that the rest of the exotics maybe needed a little boost. I don't personally think that's the case, because I've seen many of them used effectively, but I don't really think we're in disagreement here.
I also yearn a bit for things like weapon speeds, and would probably house-rule them if I could work out a viable way for them to fit in the 3.5 paradigm - I just don't think it fits with the way the rules work currently, and would require a REALLY drastic overhaul. But that's another topic that's not for here or now.
What I think that made Spiked chain so good in 3.5 was that with improved trip you got free attack if your trip succeeded. Now with combat reflexes you could easily trip foes around you AND get free attack with your full BaB and +4 for your opponent being prone. Now when Pathfinder took the free attack away from Improved trip (correct me if it's back in) I wasn't that interested in spiked chain (I'm not saying that it still wasn't good, not just that good). Anyway, I'm okay with the change, 'cause now I don't have to think about spending a feat in EWP =).
Okay, there is really a simple solution here. If you don't like theway that the spiked chain was treated, house rule it back to the 3.5 way of doing things. The only place whre this won't work is is in organized play.David are you familiar with the Oberoni Fallacy?Yes. Of course you are failing to take into account the Shekmet Fallacy.
** spoiler omitted **
That is true, but I am not failing to take it into account. Let me ask this. For all those people that are saying this nerf is a good thing. Has it made you more likely to use the spiked chain? Is anyone now going, "Finally it is something I can see using, where before I wouldn't touch it with a 10' chain." If not, then how has this actually improved the fun or even kept it consistent (as some people had fun with the spiked chain as it used to be)? Well besides the obvious, "Now nobody will bother with them, and I hated them before so that is an improvement for me" folks.
It has shown that it is inferior to the heavy flail in stats (damage and crit), costs more and has a higher feat cost (typically). Poor design is poor design, no matter how "fun" it may be (and I do want to see some people honestly saying they now will use it where before they wouldn't have).
I mean is it good design if I come out with the ButtScratcher 2000, you need 3 feats to use it without penalty, and it does 1d2 damage unlethal unless you have an armor ac or natural ac of +1, in which case it doesn't do anything. Sure, it might be fun to run around swinging shouting in a Peter Griffin voice, "ButtScratcher!", but that doesn't make it well designed weapon by any stretch. Fun and design philosphy are entirely different issues.
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The changes to spiked chain do not make either more or less likely to use a spiked chain. When I choose an exotic weapon I do so more because I like the image of exotic mystery that it imparts to a character. Thus the characters that I had the used a spiked chain will continue to do so, regardless of the changes.
I do not have a problem with the spiked chain no longer being a reach weapon. I have played two characters using the spike chain. The first was a psychic warrior in 3.0 so I could learn the area control rules. The second was a paladin of Eldath (Forgotten Realms goddes of water and peace). He preferred the spiked chain for ability to trip, disarm or damage as needed without changing weapons or taking minuses to hit. If I were to play a similar character I would probably use the spiked chain again instead of a heavy flail.
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For those that still want reach near and far, I mentioned earlier the Meteor Hammer found in the Legacy of Fire players guide. It has reach and is very similar to a spiked chain except it does blunt damage. It can also be wielded as a double weapon or to get a shield bonus to AC. These are two fighting styles you can choose one or the other to do each round. It is of course an exotic weapon, but methinks its worth it.
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The spiked chain's advantages are thus;
1)It is wielded in two hands
2) It can be used with Weapon Finesse
3) It grants a bonus to disarm
4) It grants a bonus to trip
Only one other weapon in the book is finesseable, yet wielded two-handed; the elven curve blade. (The rapier explicitly cannot be wielded two-handed, despite being a one-handed weapon.) The curve blade does more damage and has a better threat range, but grants no bonuses to disarm or trip attempts.
As to why you'd want to use a weapon that qualifies for 3:1 Power Attack while being finessed and grants bonuses on disarm and trip attempts, I couldn't say. But that's why you use the spiked chain over the heavy flail.
The spiked chain's advantages are thus;
1)It is wielded in two hands
2) It can be used with Weapon Finesse
3) It grants a bonus to disarm
4) It grants a bonus to tripOnly one other weapon in the book is finesseable, yet wielded two-handed; the elven curve blade. (The rapier explicitly cannot be wielded two-handed, despite being a one-handed weapon.) The curve blade does more damage and has a better threat range, but grants no bonuses to disarm or trip attempts.
As to why you'd want to use a weapon that qualifies for 3:1 Power Attack while being finessed and grants bonuses on disarm and trip attempts, I couldn't say. But that's why you use the spiked chain over the heavy flail.
Just to be clear, the spiked chain doesn't give a "bonus" to trip. It allows you to use the weapon for the trip and drop it so you don't get tripped back. But there is no "bonus", as there is for the disarm. And again, trip is based on Str, so Finesse is not actually in your interest if you are interested in using trip. Thus at this point it is less than the heavy flail when it comes to being a trip weapon.
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Just to be clear, the spiked chain doesn't give a "bonus" to trip. It allows you to use the weapon for the trip and drop it so you don't get tripped back. But there is no "bonus", as there is for the disarm. And again, trip is based on Str, so Finesse is not actually in your interest if you are interested in using trip. Thus at this point it is less than the heavy flail when it comes to being a trip weapon.
My point is that combining it to the heavy flail is not a valid comparison. As far as I can see, the main point of the spiked chain is that it is a two-handed finesseable weapon, and so you should compare it to other two-handed finesseable weapons, namely the elven curve blade. I'm not sure how useful a two-handed finesseable weapon is, but that seems to be what you're really paying for with the Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
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After reading it over I don't think any one would use the spiked chain now. It doesn't get a bonus to anything now, it doesn't have reach, it has only mid range damage, it has a terrible crit. Unfortunately they have turned a cool oriental weapon in the a 1980's biker gang weapon. There is nothing exotic about it at all now.
The only problem I had with the 3.x version was the insane +4 to trip and disarm. The beta knocked it down to +2 and I thought that was enough of a fix. I was hoping they would leave it at that and let GM's that hate the weapon house rule how they please.
Wait...I'm confused. Maybe you didn't actually read what I said? Because you said "no" and then proceeded to agree with what I wrote - that you don't think the rest of the exotics are worth the feat. I don't personally agree, because I've seen many of the others used in my gaming groups, but if your view is that there was only one exotic that was ever worth the feat, doesn't that strike you as being a bit unbalanced?
Sorry. I'm just so used to the term "unbalanced" being synonymous with "overpowered/broken." It wasn't broken. It was, I suppose, unbalanced, in that it was worth a feat, and none (perhaps just most) of the other exotics really were. The problem was with Improved Trip, and that was easily fixed by changing the feat to remove the free attack. Being prone was already enough of a disadvantage, the tripper didn't need to get a bonus attack as well.
This is terrible. IF I am stuck in a Core-only game (such as the Pathfinder Society), I'll gleefully wield a heavy flail and call it a spiked chain. In my own games? It's just another thing I'll have to house rule because it's been changed for no net benefit. The only thing it does is justify all those DMs who did have poor experiences with a bad feat combination or who just thought it was "silly/unrealistic." I want to really love Pathfinder, and I'm sure that much of it is an improvement from 3.5 and it's still certainly better than 4.0 for my tastes, but it seems to feature fixes for things that just didn't need fixing. I realize it wasn't just for me, but... well, I don't remember feeling like I was going to have to house rule 3.5 so thoroughly out of the gate when I got my hands on it after 3.0. I liked almost all the changes there. So this is a bit frustrating, because I just don't see the reason for it. It's attacking the wrong problem and making things just not work right. And the funny thing is, it's not like Paizo hasn't created weapons just as good if not better than the spiked chain in their own supplements.
The spiked chain's advantages are thus;
1)It is wielded in two hands
2) It can be used with Weapon Finesse
3) It can be used to disarm
4) It grants a bonus to tripOnly one other weapon in the book is finesseable, yet wielded two-handed; the elven curve blade. (The rapier explicitly cannot be wielded two-handed, despite being a one-handed weapon.) The curve blade does more damage and has a better threat range, but grants no bonuses to disarm or trip attempts.
As to why you'd want to use a weapon that qualifies for 3:1 Power Attack while being finessed and grants bonuses on disarm and trip attempts, I couldn't say. But that's why you use the spiked chain over the heavy flail.
The heavy flail's advantages are thus:
1) It is also wielded in two hands2) It is a martial weapon
3) It has a lower gold piece cost
4) It can be used to disarm
5) It grants a bonus to trip
6) It is more common, so will likely show up as random treasure more often.
7) It has a higher maximum damage (10, rather than 8)
8) It has a wider threat range (19-20/x2)
9) It deals bludgeoning damage, which is often useful against common enemies (such as skeletons)
Finessing the Spiked Chain was not really that common. It was a two-handed weapon, so it benefited from high strength bonuses so that you'd get the 1.5 increase, and most finesse builds favor DEX much more highly. It could be used that way to good effect, but it wasn't doing the character as much good as a high STR score would have for the weapon. One thing the Elven Curved Blade has is this: Who is going to ever wield it but elves with martial weapon proficiencies? It's not a bad weapon, but it's honestly really only going to be taken by elven warriors thanks to it's feat "discount." I suppose if you made the new spiked chain into another monk weapon, it'd see some use as well. Just like no one wields a siangham unless they've got monk levels, it's likely few people will bother with this. Unless they're fond of taking feats for flavor reasons, rather than reflavoring existing mechanics to work the way they need to.
People shouldn't have to mechanically impair their character to get the feeling of being "exotic."
The spiked chain's advantages are thus;
1)It is wielded in two hands
2) It can be used with Weapon Finesse
3) It grants a bonus to disarm
4) It grants a bonus to tripOnly one other weapon in the book is finesseable, yet wielded two-handed; the elven curve blade. (The rapier explicitly cannot be wielded two-handed, despite being a one-handed weapon.) The curve blade does more damage and has a better threat range, but grants no bonuses to disarm or trip attempts.
As to why you'd want to use a weapon that qualifies for 3:1 Power Attack while being finessed and grants bonuses on disarm and trip attempts, I couldn't say. But that's why you use the spiked chain over the heavy flail.
I might also point out that the spiked chain had all of those benefits and it had reached. It is not like having reach would make you lose those benefits. It is not like those benefits were added in because reach was eliminated.
I'm still waiting to hear from a single person who would use the new version of the spiked chain but who would never have considered using the previous version. We've gotten several folks say they won't use it now. We have a few that said they have or would have used it then and now (no change in preference). So where are the folks they say, "This fixed it for me. Now I finally can use it. Before, no way, but now hell yes!" Come on folks where are you at. Be truthful now, who wants to use it now for the first time.
After reading it over I don't think any one would use the spiked chain now. It doesn't get a bonus to anything now, it doesn't have reach, it has only mid range damage, it has a terrible crit. Unfortunately they have turned a cool oriental weapon in the a 1980's biker gang weapon. There is nothing exotic about it at all now.
The only problem I had with the 3.x version was the insane +4 to trip and disarm. The beta knocked it down to +2 and I thought that was enough of a fix. I was hoping they would leave it at that and let GM's that hate the weapon house rule how they please.
I realize it has been a long time for folks, but just for the sake of full disclosure:
Chain, Spiked
A spiked chain has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe.You can make trip attacks with the chain. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the chain to avoid being tripped.
When using a spiked chain, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).
You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a spiked chain sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you.
There wasn't a +4 bonus for disarm and in fact there is no bonus for trip (except you can drop it instead of being tripped back). My guess Dreamweaver just got it confused with the Improved Trip/Disarm feats, which obviously were very useful when using the weapon.