Geez... I think that is an excellent idea! I bet I can barter (on the devils side) that he will go get the crux, but that the PC's have to go with him.
Thanks a lot! I think, I will do that! Only for the case what you mentioned: It is good roleplay! Maybe he can even give them a couple of hints about the runecurse (the sorcerer examined it but epically failed his spellcraft check... so for my group, Sian's trap works by now).
...I'm german and even if I think that my group is able to stage the trials in its original english version, I'm quiet interested in this german translation Scharlata and keinlicht were talking about...
Hi, Killer Power,
oh, I'm too late (too much work the last months).
But anyway, look into your inbox for the german version.
Have fun, scharlata
We had a great time with the play. I didn't think we would as it didn't seem naturally suited to a single-player/multiple-PCs game like ours, but that didn't turn out to matter--the contrast between the inter-PC dynamics and the Trials characters' dynamics was very funny. (Our party made a *very* odd cast--Larazod and Dentris were both female tieflings.) We read the whole thing through from script, and really appreciated having a genuine script and not just highlights and game mechanics.
The Folly and Knot didn't work for us, because the single player (me) felt that it was a high level adventure that had been scaled down to keep it in the right nominal CR. The PCs were intimidated and out of place, and didn't want to be there. I flatly could not make them go through with some segments. I think it would have run okay for the same PCs at 10th level or so, with appropriate adjustments to CR, but it felt very wrong at the level they were (5th?)
A group with multiple players would probably have done better as it's unlikely they would all have reacted so badly. I think, though, that most of our multi-player groups would have had bad problems with "Why are we doing this?" and "Why did we need to get into the party?--we could have broken in on our own time."
... "Why are we doing this?" and "Why did we need to get into the party?--we could have broken in on our own time."
Hi,
but that's the point. :). Everyone broke into everything in every adventure. To NOT break in, that's the point, even if you (or the GM) had to stretch the plot. Think of something like the James Bond aspect of getting into the highly secured villa of the super-villain.
Kind regards
Has anyone run this module as a PBP? How did you handle the play?
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I hope my group will enjoy the acting 'lessons' that Robahl has in store for them.
this session will be fondly remembered by everyone :)
from the moment they were standing in queue outside the Limehouse, while Robahl fired his horrendous insults at auditoning wannabe actors, through rehearsals and the actual performance. The vigorous discussion between Robahl and a cleric certainly got them worried - a lot :)
At some point, we started rolling the perform(act) checks before the next act; the players then acted their parts according to the die roll's outcome. Robahl choked on his hat when Larazod rolled a 7 in act 3
We had a blast - they even suggested we do more RP between combats :D
Hoorah!
Glad to hear your group are enjoying their role-playing increddibelly:)
Rich
My group had some heartburn with the play which made it a not-fun AP.
Issue:
Only one person had Perform(Act). The rest felt entirely frustrated at being asked to make checks on skills they didn't have. Even though I broke my rules about metagaming and explained that all they had to do was succeed on an Aid Another, they felt humiliated and useless because they rolled so badly in many cases. The dice gods were unkind to us that day.
Solution:
The audition allows different types of checks, which the performance does not. I retooled the play to allow those checks as well as new ones which seemed to be appropriate to the situation. So the wizard could use Intimidate as in the audition. The Paladin, who is supposed to be the buffoon, I turned into a classic clown and allowed acrobatics checks to let him tumble about to the amusement of the crowd. I made the aid checks' DCs higher as a result, but it didn't matter. The players felt like they were succeeding at the play rather than failing.
Issue:
We have widely differing reading skills at the table, including one person who may have a true undiagnosed disability. During auditions, the ones who read well and hammed it up invariably rolled low. The ones who halted and stuttered through it rolled well. This was a huge disconnect and, again, very frustrating for the good readers who were told they did badly on the audition. A DM's +2 is not enough to overcome a large disparity in rolls.
Solution:
We skipped the reading of the play entirely. I described the setting of each scene and synopsized the dialog before the action started. It lost something as a result.
The play was well-conceived and added an interesting layer of decadence to Westcrown and Thrune, but the mechanics failed us. Mixing real life talents (or non-talents) with gaming didn't work, any more than it would work for us to LARP the combat. I'm glad to see that others enjoyed it.
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My group had some heartburn with the play which made it a not-fun AP.
Issue:
Only one person had Perform(Act). The rest felt entirely frustrated at being asked to make checks on skills they didn't have. Even though I broke my rules about metagaming and explained that all they had to do was succeed on an Aid Another, they felt humiliated and useless because they rolled so badly in many cases. The dice gods were unkind to us that day.Solution:
The audition allows different types of checks, which the performance does not. I retooled the play to allow those checks as well as new ones which seemed to be appropriate to the situation. So the wizard could use Intimidate as in the audition. The Paladin, who is supposed to be the buffoon, I turned into a classic clown and allowed acrobatics checks to let him tumble about to the amusement of the crowd. I made the aid checks' DCs higher as a result, but it didn't matter. The players felt like they were succeeding at the play rather than failing.Issue:
We have widely differing reading skills at the table, including one person who may have a true undiagnosed disability. During auditions, the ones who read well and hammed it up invariably rolled low. The ones who halted and stuttered through it rolled well. This was a huge disconnect and, again, very frustrating for the good readers who were told they did badly on the audition. A DM's +2 is not enough to overcome a large disparity in rolls.Solution:
We skipped the reading of the play entirely. I described the setting of each scene and synopsized the dialog before the action started. It lost something as a result.The play was well-conceived and added an interesting layer of decadence to Westcrown and Thrune, but the mechanics failed us. Mixing real life talents (or non-talents) with gaming didn't work, any more than it would work for us to LARP the combat. I'm glad to see that others enjoyed it.
You made a very good alternative way for your players to have fun with the play Treppa and it's a shame it wasn't quite up your street. You also make a very interesting point in that some of these encounters are inevitably going to need to be tweaked or in some cases taken out by different groups but the flow of the adventure path still needs to be intergral to action.
I've also done this with some pre-written stuff, or tweaked the adventure to better suit my players and that's where these mighty boards come in so useful and why I love to keep an eye on them. The twists and turns that come about through play can help greatly, so that if I'm lucky enough to be asked to write another adventure for Paizo I can include that other aspect or bear in mind that challenge.
As the APs tread new ground or challenge players and GMs these sorts of issues are bound to crop up, Carrion Crown will inevitably do it as well as future APs. The fact that the play wasn't your group's cup of tea but that you still tailored it to your players shows what a good GM you are.
I hope you'll enjoy the rest of the adventure and AP and keep us posted however.
Rich
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My group had some heartburn with the play which made it a not-fun AP.
Bummer :(
Maybe you could've cheated a little more?I think there's three parts to each act - the die roll on a perform check, the effort a player has put into it, and the end result. If either of these is awesome, let's have it count as such.
Then again, if all three of the above suck - well, that's a tomato in your direction buddy, and IMHO well deserved too. Everyone can make an effort - No effort, no reward.
I realize that not everyone is comfortable acting a play - but they may get lucky on a die roll. As long as these players try to do everything they're comfortable with, I'd say they've done well enough.
Some players may actually have some acting talent - well, great! Don't care about the dice that much, as these players will give the session a lot of flavour. That's worth a reward as well.
And finally, some players may have no skill at all, but their character does; in those cases, let the dice speak for themselves, fudge them the +5 Friendship Bonus and don't care too much about reading mistakes. This way everybody has a very fair chance.
We got through the play in our own unique way, and everyone agreed it was an interesting book. No adventure can fit every group perfectly. I've used many other GM's input for tailoring adventures for my group's playstyle, and wanted to give something back. The original post was not a complaint, but a contribution in the spirit of sharing that makes these GM threads so valuable.
For designers, negative feedback can be more useful than "great job." Paizo's authors read and reply to concerns here, which is something that keeps us coming back as customers. I appreciate the response, Mr. Pett, and I hope to see your name on many more AP's. See you in chat if you happen to pop in again.
Treppa
P.S. - We all just agreed I will run Carrion Crown when Council is over, and I'm very excited about it.
We got through the play in our own unique way, and everyone agreed it was an interesting book. No adventure can fit every group perfectly. I've used many other GM's input for tailoring adventures for my group's playstyle, and wanted to give something back. The original post was not a complaint, but a contribution in the spirit of sharing that makes these GM threads so valuable.
For designers, negative feedback can be more useful than "great job." Paizo's authors read and reply to concerns here, which is something that keeps us coming back as customers. I appreciate the response, Mr. Pett, and I hope to see your name on many more AP's. See you in chat if you happen to pop in again.
Treppa
P.S. - We all just agreed I will run Carrion Crown when Council is over, and I'm very excited about it.
Perfectly put Treppa, you are absolutely spot on and it is useful to have all feedback. I think your approach is great and I'm glad you all found the book interesting.
Ah now, Carrion Crown, I hope you'll have fun with that AP but enjoy Trial best, keep sending the feedback.
Rich
Just wanted to pay my compliments and say that my group ran the Play last night and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Most of them had been anticipating having the trials be straight combat and had a really excellent moment of "oh no, we're in trouble" when one player couldn't seem to make his check in Act 3.
This was a group of fairly experienced players who were delighted that something threw them a curveball and did so in a fun and exciting way.
Also, they were skeptical about reading lines initially, but really got into it once the play was underway.
Excellent!
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If we had only known back when we ran Sixfold Trial what we know now (about the course of that campaign) the whole point of the play could have been to impress the Mayor and get his patronage, and that would have made perfect sense. The PCs did, in fact, impress the Mayor and get his patronage, and it's been significantly important to them....
...to the extent that one PC is now fussing over wedding dresses and who to invite to the happy occasion of her becoming Lady Arvanaxi. And worrying a *lot* that she is too much of a trouble magnet to have an undisturbed wedding, no matter how good the security is.
My play groups have universally had little to no tolerance for "make the PCs do something because it would be cinematic or cool" manuvers. If it doesn't make sense to the PCs then the players don't want to do it. We have to work within that constraint. But winning Aberian's patronage would have worked, in retrospect.
"Aberian is a rotund, balding man with a quick and somewhat too-wide smile. He wears the Westcrown colors in his elegant suit, along with a cloak made of winter wolf fur." (p. 29)
His picture on p. 28 looks like he's wearing grey, white, and burgundy. I'm guessing that this is a trick of the light (honestly--I think that's the artist's intent) and that he's actually wearing red and black. Those are the colours the dottari wear, so I'm assuming that they're Westcrown's colours (and the empire's, but it makes sense that the former imperial capitol city would use them).
This being the case, what are the Arvanxi colours? My best guess is that they're red and gold, and that the shield in the lower left-hand corner of p. 33 is their house crest. Does this seem right?
I noticed a couple of issues with Sian Daemodus in the Asmodean Knot. I think she was originally statted as a 5th level rogue/2nd level (not 3rd) shadowdancer. Her CR is 7 and there is no mention in the Special Abilities section of her being able to summon a shadow or cast illusions, both of which she would be able to do as a third-level shadowdancer. No mention is made in her Tactics section of these abilities either. Not a big deal, but her HD and abilities should probably be reduced accordingly. I might restat her entirely in a future post if procrastination doesn't set in. Additionally, she shouldn't be able to cast darkness as a spell-like ability; her Fiendish Heritage feat has resulted in her trading this off for the DR 2/silver.
Once again, my hat is off to Sir Richard Pett, SKR and the Paizo crew. This AP is everything I could have wanted for the inauguration of Pathfinder as a unified system. Although, as a recovering Planescape junkie, I'm a sucker for any adventure even involving tieflings, let alone a story arc featuring them as the main antagonists.
yeah thats true, but there has to be something on with her, cause she managed to enter the knot, sneeked past the howlers in her gaseous form, and the shadows in room B3, then looked through the cells in B7/B8, kills the rouge, and bring him back with all his belongings and the haversack to the entrance, again by bypassing the howlers and shadows, without killing them. after she aranged him there, she get back to area 21, slayed the kyton in B12 on her way and prepared her ambush than in B21. and waited there for more than a day. she seems a kind of green baret of the concil gangers. for this i accept her stats. ;-)
I'm trying to piece together Crosael Rasdovain's background. She was obviously born before Aberian became the mayor, and presumably someone in House Rasdovain might have noticed her rakshasa heritage in spite of her Fiendish Facade feat, right? It gives a plus to Disguise checks, but an infant wouldn't be trying to hide anything. She was born in Korvosa, but we don't know how old she was when she moved to Westcrown, just that she was a child.
So does the Westcrown branch of House Rasdovain know that they put a tiefling into the vira of the lord they're trying to impress? For that matter, how long has Vira Rasdovain been next to the mayoral manor house? Did that happen even before their patron became mayor? My guess is that both Vira Rasdovain and Vira Mhartis belonged to two other noble families who were disgraced in the twenty years since Aberian took power and he granted those estates to his client families. Vira Ciucci, on the other hand, seems to have been in that family's possession for generations (based on the cremated remains in the basement).
Okay, so we have a tiefling growing up in a household that likely knows she's a tiefling, but somehow (bribes, murder, shame, etc) manages to mostly keep it a secret (at least until Chammady somehow finds out). The family was probably in lousy shape, but when Aberian was exiled to Westcrown that's likely when they became an Arvanxi client House. The first family to get a new estate would doubtless have been House Mhartis (given that Aberian's sister Lonosete had married Lord Mhartis), but perhaps Crosael's service as majordomo influenced the mayor's decision to give the next vacated manor to her family.
So prior to being blackmailed, what was Crosael's attitude toward Aberian? Toward her own family? Did the entire family move to Westcrown from Korvosa, or did just a few sail to the old capital in order to join existing family members? "Crosael is, in fact, a heartless and calculating tiefling, and she retains no guilt over the fact that she betrayed the mayor..." (Pathfinder #28, p. 27) I'm guessing she's spent most of her life feeling afraid and resentful.
Alas, I see no hope of redemption for her.
So, cross-posted to save time:
While most people probably don't need it any more, just in case it needs to be cross-referenced, I crafted an English version (unrelated to Scharlata's) that has up to twenty different roles to play (though more accurately, it's up sixteen, the 'twenty' number includes the silent Bailiff, Ilsandra, and Handerthaan, and the Prince of Darkness roles, which have already been cast in the AP).
Anyway, you can find it here. Hope it helps!
I figured I'd post it into two places to let people find it easier.
My group just finished the Sixfold Trial. Here are two rather long blog posts:
http://parhoon-naval-yards.blogspot.de/2013/02/the-quest-for-chellish-crux. html
http://parhoon-naval-yards.blogspot.de/2013/03/the-quest-for-chellish-cruz- part-2.html
My group just finished the Sixfold Trial. Here are two rather long blog posts:
link one
link two
Now that should work better for everyone! :)
Just so you know, in the future, please use the tags:
[ url = writethelinkhere.com ] write the message you want [ / url ]
When you remove the spaces, it'll look like this:
write the message you want
If you quote this document, you'll get to see exactly what I mean.
Anyway, I'll try and peruse it later! :)
A couple questions about creatures in the Asmodean Knot:
1) Sian - How does her Hide In Plain sight ability work against creatures with darkvision (i.e. dwarves)? Or does it not work? She needs to be within 10 feet of a shadow, but do creatures with darkvision still see shadows?
2) Szasmir - Is there anything preventing him from breaking down the door to his cell (aside from madness)? Especially now that he has the intelligent glaive? I know he can't teleport out because of the magical ward, but as far as numbers go, I don't see a reason why he can't break free.
1) Hide in Plain Sight works exactly like it says it does. She uses the stealth skill even while being observed.
2) The glaive is a very recent acquisition. Due to madness and ignorance, he hasn't quite figured out that he can escape yet. That's really it, as far as I can tell or say. That makes another good reason why they might have to deal with him, if your players (like mine) are of the opinion that they might want to leave him there.
1) Hide in Plain Sight works exactly like it says it does. She uses the stealth skill even while being observed.
2) The glaive is a very recent acquisition. Due to madness and ignorance, he hasn't quite figured out that he can escape yet. That's really it, as far as I can tell or say. That makes another good reason why they might have to deal with him, if your players (like mine) are of the opinion that they might want to leave him there.
Thank you for the clarification!
Here's another question for people... what is the caster level of the runecurse? Just incase they get access to remove it with break enchantment (DC 11+ caster level). Though, most likely it will be via remove curse (DC 22).
What about simply defeating the bone devil.
Is the German version of the play still available? I'd very much appreciate it. Please send it to Tarakin at yahoo.com. Thanks!
Thank you for the clarification!
Here's another question for people... what is the caster level of the runecurse? Just incase they get access to remove it with break enchantment (DC 11+ caster level). Though, most likely it will be via remove curse (DC 22).
You're welcome!
I'd probably just make the DC the same. :)
What about simply defeating the bone devil.
That's also a possibility, and one that the adventure accounts for. :)
I will be GMing the Sixfold Trials soon as we just kicked off the AP. I'm still not sure how well the play of the Six Trials of Arazod will work with the group and our setup.
I hope Scharlata will send me over his german translation of the play, else I have a lot of work to do ;-)
We only play about once every two weeks and use Google Hangouts and Roll20.net to do so. One of the players has some issues with his internet connection which leads to some problems understanding him from time to time. Coming together in one place is out of the question, we live too far apart.
So let's say we handle the technical difficulties, do you think (or have even tried for yourself) the play will work doing it with Hangouts and not really face to face?
I really don't like the idea of having to role the same skill check about 70 times in this AP (Perform (act) that is), so I will try to mix things up a little like suggested above.
Furthermore we are not using the Pathfinder RPG but the Fate Core Rules with some tweaks to run this AP. Does anyone have experience doing this or any other AP with Fate Rules?
I hope to get some input here on how to run this very unique second Adventure of the AP. It really has the potential to be very memorable ... hopefully in a good sense.
And one more question: How long has it taken you to play thrugh the entire play? We normally have about 2 to 3 hours long sessions. Is that enough?
And one more question: How long has it taken you to play thrugh the entire play? We normally have about 2 to 3 hours long sessions. Is that enough?
It probably can be, though it took us longer.
......
... though we had, like, twenty characters (not twenty players, though) that were being run at the same time, so there's that.
Don't know if anyone is still reading this but how long (in people's experience) does this adventure take to run?
I'm thinking at least from the start of the book to the end of the play (planning an interlude)
Thanks
Has anyone run this module as a PBP? How did you handle the play?
Okay so I'm like four years late on this but I didn't see anyone else answer it, so. I'm running the play right now as a PBP. Everyone has a copy of the script, and we're letting one person post a block of lines for the non-combat sections. For act one, we had about forty lines, and five people with lines to post (including me). So one person posted the first eight lines, the second posted the next... There was a fair bit of editing involved, but that way we didn't had to wait for Dentris or someone to show up and post, and we didn't clutter the thread with forty posts where five did the job fine.
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It's no secret that the shadow room in the Asmodean Knot is hilariously overpowered for the level, and in my opinion the link to the Plane of Shadow also seems a bit shoehorned into an otherwise infernal-themed dungeon. I decreased the spawn rate of shadows, but I also wanted to bring the room into alignment with the rest of the dungeon (and add more of a Mammon flair).
What I ended up doing was replacing the mirrors with the "Claws of Erebus" haunt from Hell Unleashed. A pitch dark room that eats anyone who enters (reflex save to avoid). The zone still spawned shadows at a dimished rate, reskinned as the souls of those who expired in the cells.
My party couldn't defeat the haunt (bad rolls) but consecrated the area to prevent shadow spawning.
My players use a lot detect magic, so I wonder what would they see on Anvengen's Edge, or Drowned Jabe's book
Sorry, I meant the Symbol, Avengen's Edge has its own aura
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Sorry, I meant the Symbol, Avengen's Edge has its own aura
Given what they do, I would suggest use the same aura as Trap The Soul, i.e., Strong Conjuration. Stylistically, a case can be made for adding Strong Necromancy.
Thank you. Though it's strange that they are ignored in the AP...
Thank you. Though it's strange that they are ignored in the AP...
Remember that in 3.0/3.5 cantrips were still a limited resource. Likely the author didn't think of the consequences of the change to how cantrips worked in the Pathfinder RPG.
The bard fooled Szasmir, but can a devil own a runecurse?
Does the dimensional lock allow Nyxervex to come for Szasmir? This won't be a problem actually, because I'll make Sian free the devil to chase the PCs, but I'd like to know how to deal with it.
Does the dimensional lock allow Nyxervex to come for Szasmir? This won't be a problem actually, because I'll make Sian free the devil to chase the PCs, but I'd like to know how to deal with it.
Given how it is written, they runecurse does allow Nyxervex to appear within the Knot … leaving may be a problem though.
My players want to "talk" to Anvengen's Edge and ask her some questions....what could the blade know???? First, does she know she's a fragment of someone's soul? What else?
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My players want to "talk" to Anvengen's Edge and ask her some questions....what could the blade know???? First, does she know she's a fragment of someone's soul? What else?
First: is there information that you (as a GM) need to feed your PCs?
Second: are there any "red herrings" that you want to give to your PCs?Beyond that, remember that it is a fragment. It only knows what you want it to know. Given how sparse the information in the AP is, it doesn't need to be much.
Sometimes I forget that as a GM I can make anything up -_-
The blade could also refuse to answer a PC who is not LE...
Lord Fyre I'd be lost without your tips
Sometimes I forget that as a GM I can make anything up -_-
The blade could also refuse to answer a PC who is not LE...
Lord Fyre I'd be lost without your tips
You're still doing better then I did. :( My CoT did not survive the Play.
You're still doing better then I did. :( My CoT did not survive the Play.
I fixed the encounter The Belly of the Beast and removed the damage from the hand and footholds, and yet Calseinica died. The cleric went 0 pf at the end of the Pleasure and by the third trial they were out of spells
I'm still learning the PF1 rules, but I'll take a look at it :)
