The idea that at 15th level an Infernal Sorcerer gets to fly 24/7 and a Celestial Sorcerer can only fly for 15 minutes a day strikes me not only as out of whack, but offensive.
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Change one thing....
The skill system. Why does someone gain a +3 bonus to the skill check for putting a RANK (and it IS a rank) in it?
I mean seriously; what are you guys doing?
The old system IMO was WAY better.
Is math really confusing? If the answer is yes, then doing the math should improve your math skills.
I also don't like some of the skill groupings.
I really think skills are being changed for no real reason and I dont like it.
Some things you guys are changing in PF are cool and others are absolutely unnecessary.
Remove alignment restriction from Paladins. Cayden Cailean deserves righteous carousers.
Change all specialist powers, domain powers, or special abilities that can be cast a number times a day, or have a duration related to caster level, change to 3+a where a is the modifier of the characters prime attribute.
Effects that do damage related to caster level remain unchanged.
eg. Corrupting Touch (Su) ... this effect persists for 3 + (character's Charisma modifier) rounds ...
eg. Change Shape (Su) You can change your shape for 3 + (character's Intelligence modifier) rounds ...
This should relate the number of uses or duration of the power to the character's prime attribute but the effect to a character's caster level.
Limit the abilities gained for the arcane schools and domains to a small set that scale with level.
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Honestly, at the moment the main thing I would change about Pathfinder is:
Concentration and Spellcraft. Bring back Concentration as a skill, keyed to Constitution. It's integral to Psionics and Tome of Battle, and making it a skill keyed to CON makes it a skill that no one caster type has an advantage in. As a result, get rid of Spellcraft. Roll the abilities of Spellcraft (and Psicraft) into the associated knowledges: Identifying an arcane spell requires Knowledge (Arcana). Divine spell? Knowledge (Religion). Psionic power? Knowledge (Psionics). Maneuver? Knowledge (Tactics) or (Local) or something. It's still keyed off of the same attribute (INT) and it means that priest classes are more likely to identify the magic of the gods, arcanists are more likely to identify wizard magic, and psions are more likely to identify psionics. It makes a whole lot more sense.This is much more sensible. I used Concentration for many things beyond the rules-as-written, such as maintaining one's balance in a slowly spinning tunnel, and picking a lock while half submerged in sewage, basically anything that require maintaining one's focus in physically challenging situations, and was really surprised to see it rolled into Spellcraft, whereas I would have thought it made more sense to roll Spellcraft into the Knowledge skills. I really like the idea of using Knowledge (Religion) as Spellcraft for Divine magic, and knowledge (Arcana) as Spellcraft for Arcane magic
This also has the advantage of making Knowledge (Religion) far more relevant to the game. As it stands, religious training seems to mostly consists of studying the undead and evil cults, as it's used for recognizing undead, evil statues and bad guy's holy symbols. It'd be nice if Knowledge (Religion) and Knowledge (Arcane) had similar weight.
I just made a post similar to this under Skills and Feats. It is just tough to keep up with all the ideas in the different threads.
How about entirely ditching situational bonuses (higher ground, flanked, etc. etc.). Instead, you either get combat advantage (or some other name) or you don't.
Question: "Did that move get me combat advantage?" Reply: "Yep." And now the player knows exactly what the bonus is to attack and damage.
One number to add, ever, not three or four, or worse -- adding and subtracting. That's the stuff that slows combat. Also, make the combat advantage number level dependent. It's bigger as one goes up in level. Consider taking it into spells to replace various buff spells.
So as not to claim credit (or guffaws) where neither is wholly due, this idea came out of a conversation with Tim Hitchcock and is over 60% his brain noodle. But I think I like it.
EDIT: oh yeah, and make sure everything is worded so you can play without a battlemat if you like. Meaning, nothing requires squares; you can always pull it off with just a sketch and a decent idea of distance.
I hate the new ranger.
I don't want to DM him, I don't wish to play him.
Please take him back and retool him.
If I could change one thing I'd..
Give monks a proper, unique niche in the adventuring party.
Also, I'm seconding these suggestions:
* Half-Orcs with Druid, rather than Cleric, as a Favored Class option.
* Minimum of 4+int skill points
I really don't care much for these suggestions:
* Psionics as a core anything
* Paladins as anything but LG
* Getting rid of alignments
So far only thing I've dislike in Alpha 3 is the DR change. If anything I would like find way to make DR/magic tougher as seems almost meaningless that high level dragons and other monsters to have. Possible for every +1 bonus your weapon has you can ignore 5 points of DR/magic. So that +2 sword would ignore reduce a DR of 15/magic to just a DR of 5.
I would eliminate all point pool based character abilities (rage points, ki pool, etc). These are fine dynamics if you're a player character, but as a DM they are a nightmare to track in addition to everything else already on your plate. Plus you are put in the position of deciding arbitrarily if the NPCs have used some of their pool for the day or are they at full power when they fight the PCs.
Sorry couldn't keep it to just 1.
3) Change rules for COVER. Not all of us use mats n minis. Having the rules based on grid lines is highly restrictive.
2) More uses of Paladin Smite per day!(or make those limited uses more powerful)
1) NO MAGIC ITEM AFFINITY SLOTS!!!
IS THE IDEA TO RESTRICT ABILITY BOOSTING? DOESN'T WORK SEEING AS ITEMS ARE EASIER TO GET WITH MULTIPLE ENCHANTMENTS NOW. AND ABILITY BONUSES DON'T STACK ANYWAY. SEEMS POINTLESS AND RESTRICTING. A DM SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR NOT BREAKING A GAME WITH EXCESSIVE MAGIC ITEMS. DON'T LIMIT THEM VIA THE RULEBOOK.
Grr, stupid website eating my post!
Anyway, my suggestion: Get rid of flat DCs for Skill Checks that involve interacting with NPCs and/or monsters.
This has already been done for Tumble (I like the new rule! Good one!). Casting defensively (for which, incidentally, there are no rules printed in Alpha 3, though Combat Casting is still in the feat section) should work on a similar mechanic. Both involve avoiding an attack of opportunity for doing something that would ordinarily provoke one, and under 3.5 rules both became similarly pointless at a certain point where even rolling a 1 meant you succeeded. But, to make them more similar and so that casters are not unfairly screwed, perhaps the check should just be made to avoid an attack of opportunity? If the attack hits, then the caster has to make a second check under the damage dealt while casting rule, which gives a second chance at not losing the spell.
On the same token, the Diplomacy rules have always bugged me (though kudos for giving the ability a duration!). Why is it equally easy to persuade the town drunk, a highly trained diplomat employed by the king for negotiation, and a Great Wyrm Red Dragon? Perhaps the check should be modified by the targets base Will Save or ranks in either Sense Motive or Diplomacy? That way when nations send negotiators for trade agreements, they don't all end up going the way of whoever got the highest initiative.
And, while I'm here, I'm going to take the time to second (third? fourth?) some previously mentioned ideas:
1. Bring back Concentration, and roll Spellcraft into the associated knowledges.
2. Each class has a minimum of 4+INT skill points.
3. More combat styles for rangers.
Return 3.5 Wish
Remove Wish (and Miracle) as SLA's. period.
That's my Paizo PPG wish. (no pun intended.. sort of.)
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Restore Concentration as a separate skill and wrap Spellcraft into appropriate Knowledge skills (see earlier posts by others)
Accommodate unarmored fighters as a viable build (not all brawlers are monks and not all swashbucklers are rogues) (just a suggestion: change Armor Training to Defensive Training - if you are wearing armor the bonus is an increase to the armor bonus. If you are unarmored, the bonus is a dodge bonus to AC. It wouldn't be as good as a Monk's bonuses, but it would at least be something.)
Implement detective monks (just kidding :P)
I would like to change my vote.
Get ride of or change favorite classes.
1. Get rid of favorite classes all together.
2. Change it to grant a skill bonus of some type instead. Ether a bonus skill known, or bonus skill ranks.
Here's some more of my opinion :)
-Conjurer specialist bonus: change from armor bonus to a different bonus(defelction, natural etc.)
-I would like to see a feat increasing access to bonus spells
-skills: set to 4,6,8 for all classes. Leave 2+ open for PrC.
- add one skill rank/level to the 1 Hp/level to favored class bonus.
-greater magic weapon spell- cap the spell at +10 total weapon bonus. That way you can't take a +1 weapon with +9 worth of enhancements and add the spell, making the weapon a total of +14(at the highest caster level). OR max enhancements on a weapon at +5.
I would like to see the bull's strength(and cat's grace etc.) all upgrade to 10 min/level durations.
-I would like to see death at -CON score instead of at -10. Or some other rule which incrases this limit as you level up. Like bump it up to -15 at 5th level, -20 at 10th level, etc.
-Potion pricing. Please reduce price of potions. In my game I make them half-price. My players refuse to buy or use ones they find if I leave it at regular prices.
-Tweak the starting wealth charts to be more uniform.
-Please let inherent bonus stack.
-Ioun stones: I love how they were used in the first Pathfinder adventure path. Please change them to work more like this.(embedded into skin) and have lots more kinds. My players and I have always disliked the notion of these things flying around our characters' heads.
-paladin- LG only please
-psionics-love them but please keep in own book.
-feat for bonus paladin smites
-ability boosting items. Eliminate them completely and just give the ability to enchant them onto other items like the rules given in the back of the magic item compendium.
My thoughts....
4+ int skill points great already did it.
If physical skills are built into skills then fighters should get more. Never understood why a Bararian would be more skilled then a civilized fighter.
I like the options for barbarians maybe points not so great so maybe based on rage/day with choices of other abilities based on level or choice. That way it would be easier to convert 3.5 characters. I would like to see the sames thing for Cleric turn ability. You tap into your gods power directly with turn so why not have other options.
Paladins I know are core d&d but they should be changed to champions alowing for all different alignments and gods. Love the UA for that at least.
If you give info for community creation then retool it for more realistic scenarios. The majority of the people in the world are not 1st level commoners. A farm tilling the land for 30 years should be more knowledgable about farming then any 1st level ranger. He should be at least a 5th level commoner. Not unbalanced as he is not a combat monkey but he has survived in a world teaming with creatures for thirty years. 1st level should be reserved for the young. Just my opinion on fluff.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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The one thing I would change is remove the new Cleric Domain rules and use domains as they exist in the 3.5 game. I refer to the domains themselves. How the Cleric casts them are open to change. For instance keeping the +1 domain slot per level isn't an issue for me. It would be best if backward compatible is top, but you could make due without it. Maybe just adding them to the Cleric spell list?
[...] Concentration and Spellcraft. Bring back Concentration as a skill, keyed to Constitution. [...] and making it a skill keyed to CON makes it a skill that no one caster type has an advantage in. As a result, get rid of Spellcraft. Roll the abilities of Spellcraft (and Psicraft) into the associated knowledges: Identifying an arcane spell requires Knowledge (Arcana). Divine spell? Knowledge (Religion). Psionic power? Knowledge (Psionics). Maneuver? Knowledge (Tactics) or (Local) or something. It's still keyed off of the same attribute (INT) and it means that priest classes are more likely to identify the magic of the gods, arcanists are more likely to identify wizard magic, and psions are more likely to identify psionics. It makes a whole lot more sense. [...]
I agree.
Just one?
Revert death magic rules to 3.5.
One change? I'd lower the dc of manuevers to 10+CMB.
In our playtests, we've found 15+CMB is just too high. A raging, enlarged dwarf barbarian 10 couldn't break out of a dire bear's grapple (CR 7) without rolling a 17. IF he had improved grapple (which he doesn't), he'd still need a fifteen. It's just too high. If it were a base of 10+CMB, he'd only need a twelve, and that's at least doable. Monsters tend to be bigger and stronger with more hit dice for their challenge ratings, and have obscenely high CMB scores as a result.
Grr, stupid website eating my post!
Anyway, my suggestion: Get rid of flat DCs for Skill Checks that involve interacting with NPCs and/or monsters.
This has already been done for Tumble (I like the new rule! Good one!). Casting defensively (for which, incidentally, there are no rules printed in Alpha 3, though Combat Casting is still in the feat section) should work on a similar mechanic. Both involve avoiding an attack of opportunity for doing something that would ordinarily provoke one, and under 3.5 rules both became similarly pointless at a certain point where even rolling a 1 meant you succeeded. But, to make them more similar and so that casters are not unfairly screwed, perhaps the check should just be made to avoid an attack of opportunity? If the attack hits, then the caster has to make a second check under the damage dealt while casting rule, which gives a second chance at not losing the spell.
i agree because a 15 for any caster late in the game is extremely easy to get in a game level 10 +;but at the same time i feel that there could be a way to make it so that defensive casting could be made more difficult with a formula (i know trying to simplify it and all but yea):
the defensive cast formula i came up with (DC 15 + (Highest hit dice of the combatant(enemy) + any enemy feats that specialize in it (that specializes in fighting casters)and if there is a ganging up bonus +2 for each enemy threatening the caster in melee range.
IE (level 10 fighter and a level 5 barbarian threatening a level 11
( dc = 15 + 10 + 2) the wizard would need to roll a dc of 22 to defensively cast a spell.
Using the DC above a wizard level 11 with a concentration rank of 13 con of 14 =+2 totaling to a concentration total of 15.
would have to roll a a 12 or higher to defensively cast the spell. A crit fail or natural 1 = failure at defensive cast.
My biggest problem is with concentration being removed because of the many different uses i use it for as mentioned in previous posts and in how it can be used for stated above.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I really want to change the alignment restriction for Paladins.
3.5 went 1 step towards this goal for me by removing the alignment restriction for Rangers, now Pathfinder has to step up and to the same for Paladins.
They should just be the "Holy Warrior" of their Deity, no matter what that Deity's alignment. Restriction is that their alignment must be within 1 step of Deity (or exactly the same if you want to make it a "tighter" restriction, which I am fine with).
I like Paladins as a class, but their innate stuffiness and rigidity has cause many out-of-game- arguments with our play group for me to ever consider playing one.
I previously said remove rage points, ki pools, etc.
But other posters have made me reconsider these as greater concerns.
-Return Cleric Domains to 3.5 standard, converting them is too much work for backwards compatibility and compatibility with non-SRD materials.
-Lower the CMB DC to 11+CMB and return Improved Maneuver feats to +4. Maneuvers are so hard to perform now that my players never even attempt them. Getting rid of the AoO is not a big enough benefit for taking the feat since the same thing can often be achieved by using a reach weapon for the maneuver.
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Power creep all around.
If it was one simple thing then perhaps I would suggest something other than HP+1 for favored class. When you combine this with the HD boost for the wizard/ sorcerer it really bumps up the HP on these classes. Previously having a bonus to CON was almost a requirement for a Wizard... not so much any more. Favored class HP +1 gives all humans and half elves gain +1 HP/ level along with most of the common class/ race combos...
I suggest a bonus feat or perhaps class features that are only available to certain races. (
A couple quick examples:
* Elfin rangers automatically get Forests as a favored terrain at 3rd level
* Gnome sorcerers gain a bonus spell known at 5th level and 11th level
-- Dennis
If you could change one thing about Alpha 3, what would it be?
Be brief - Don't post a full class re-working here, link to it by all means, but keep your posts brief and pointed. Again the signal/noise thingy.
Ok, first off, I apologize if this gets long-winded. I tried posting this once before but the upload fragged and got deleted. So, here it goes:
Polymorph. That's what I'd change.
Let's be real; the new rules are really good, and really bad, all at the same time. I understand many people had issues with the Polymorph, but I never did. Here's why.
I've been playing D&D for 30 years, and whenever I played a wizard, I never used Polymorph for fighting. I used it for reconnissance, disguise, transportation, even outright survival, but never as a way to augment my combat prowess. Therefore, it wasn’t a necessity to know exactly what my character’s new natural AC bonus was. Besides, a wizard is a poor choice for that tactic. It seems that the druid is the character who most often uses Polymorph in a combat-oriented manner.
So, in that regard, these new rules work great. We finally get simple and concise rules about just how a character's stats are adjusted, thanks to Polymorph. However, now our wizard's and sorcerer's have to learn new spells to gain (or re-gain) the same benefits that one spell used to give them. ?!?!?!?!? That is simply insane. When your humble hedge wizard must fill half a spellbook with nearly 1 1/2 dozen spells that all essentially give him the same ability, just to varrying degrees, you know something is wrong.
Here's what I propose: keep Polymorph as it was for wizards and sorcerers. But, for druids, whose shapechanging has the biggest impact on the game, keep the new rules as a class-based ability. This way druids get to keep the clear-cut rules for Wild Shape combat, and spellcasters keep the simplicity of a single spell.
I admit I have doubts about the feasibility of this option, but as things stand, Polymorph has become a nightmare (more than it was already). It has been said that these new rules will solve the Polymorph issue, simply because they are so over-the-top complex that players just won't bother with shapechanging spells anymore. And that's just sad.
Sorry for rambling on. I've been wanting to get this off my chest for a while now. Thanks for listening.
DogBone
If you could change one thing about Alpha 3, what would it be?
Be brief - Don't post a full class re-working here, link to it by all means, but keep your posts brief and pointed. Again the signal/noise thingy.
Ok, first off, I apologize if this gets long-winded. I tried posting this once before but the upload fragged and got deleted. So, here it goes:
Polymorph. That's what I'd change.
Let's be real; the new rules are really good, and really bad, all at the same time. I understand many people had issues with the Polymorph, but I never did. Here's why.
I've been playing D&D for 30 years, and whenever I played a wizard, I never used Polymorph for fighting. I used it for reconnissance, disguise, transportation, even outright survival, but never as a way to augment my combat prowess. Therefore, it wasn’t a necessity to know exactly what my character’s new natural AC bonus was. Besides, a wizard is a poor choice for that tactic. It seems that the druid is the character who most often uses Polymorph in a combat-oriented manner.
So, in that regard, these new rules work great. We finally get simple and concise rules about just how a character's stats are adjusted, thanks to Polymorph. However, now our wizard's and sorcerer's have to learn new spells to gain (or re-gain) the same benefits that one spell used to give them. ?!?!?!?!? That is simply insane. When your humble hedge wizard must fill half a spellbook with nearly 1 1/2 dozen spells that all essentially give him the same ability, just to varrying degrees, you know something is wrong.
Here's what I propose: keep Polymorph as it was for wizards and sorcerers. But, for druids, whose shapechanging has the biggest impact on the game, keep the new rules as a class-based ability. This way druids get to keep the clear-cut rules for Wild Shape combat, and spellcasters keep the simplicity of a single...
Of course we could just revert Polymorph to a single spell, limiting the CR of the Polymorph target creature by level so as to keep it under control. Then extend the casting time to 1 minute or even 10. That would eliminate it as a combat spell for wiz/sorcerer and leave combat shape changing the domain of the Druid. Unless you use special storing and delay magic, but that a valid price to pay. I like this.
Damn. Now I've said two things. Damn damn damn. *smacks head repeatedly*
Get rid of favored classes. It tries to push players into a defined role. Multiclassing isn't that great now anyways because the new core classes have powerful abilities at higher levels.
Bring back 3.5 cleric domains because of backward compatability. Of course that might make clerics too powerful again. What I would do is that instead of letting them have a +1 extra spell at every level I would let them spontaneous cast domain spells in place of a prepared spell. It gives the cleric a lttle flavor without being as powerful as being given an extra spell. However, the healing domain would have to be reworked.
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1. Add a third favored class to each race and modify as follows:
dwarf: fighter, cleric, rogue
elf: ranger, wizard, rogue
gnome: bard, wizard, rogue
half-orc: barbarian, cleric, rogue
halfling: fighter, rogue, ranger
2. Allow a favored class to grant either a +1 HP or an additional skill
3. Modify gnomes to gain +2 Cha, +2 Int, -2 Wis
4. Retain the 3.5 Domains for clerics (enhances backward compatibility)
5. Retain the 3.5 HD progression (d4 for wizards, etc.)(enhances backward compatibility and retains the flavor of previous editions - d4 for wizards has been there ever since Day 1).
Overall I think 3.P is very good. I especially like the Alpha 3 skill system (good compromise) and the benefits for single-classing and not switching to a prestige class. I'm not yet convinced about Turning = Mass Healing.
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DO LESS.
After all the changes are listed and layed out on a table in front of Jason, Monte, & whomever. Pick about 1/3 of them and find a way to lessen the size of the tweak to the 3.5 rules. Find ways to make changes simpler and less, as a final pass through the proposed changes. I think sometimes there are simpler, but overlooked solutions that are in size: small.
-dons asbestos suit-
I would completely revert to the 3.5 skill system.
I really don't think it needed changing, and condensing
the skill list doesn't really accomplish anything except to have
a little less ink on the character sheet.
It doesn't appreciably speed up anything or alter it except to
shrink the amount of options a player has at creation.
It Does make creation time (slightly) more time consuming,
but character creation is when the person has the most time
to tinker around with it.
More skills > less skills.
-S
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No to rage points and ki pool.
I would like to see a shift towards at will, per encounter, and per day abilities and spells on a global scale.
Having a spell that lasts 1 minute per level really doesn't make much sense beyond 3rd level because most encounters don't last that long and parties generally spend 10 minutes or more after each encounter resting, searching, and looting.
Also its hard to manage hour long durations once they reach 5 hours or more, most just house rule they last all day.
I'd vote for Domains as bonus spells like in 3.5 as well.
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I'd remove the "at will" abilities of sorcerers, wizards, and clerics. I hated this mechanic in 4E (at will, encounter, and daily) and I hate it here (we've house-ruled most to 1x/day for every other level.
I want my clerics to want to use wade into combat swinging their mace. I want my sorcerers and wizards to struggle with level zero damaging cantrips or their crossbow because they've spent their wad of spells already. I can understand this to a degree for a "high magic" campaign, but it really doesn't seem to work the more gritty your campaign gets.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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On the other hand the Abyssal sorcerer is going to have a problem disguising his nature with those demonic wings poking out the back. also note that the Celestial arcanist is at least one degree more maneuverable.
This also means that the Fly skill really needs to be defined in these cases.
Who cares about the Maneuverability if I can fly at will ALL DAY as opposed to a couple of minutes a day.
This irks me no end as well, but I've already said my 1 thing above and it irks me more (if only slightly).
4 + Int skills for all classes (and maybe the option to choose INT MOD class skills at character creation)
Please, Please keep Rage points, I like this mechanic so much I've been pestering my DM to try 3.PF just so I can bring back my favourite Barbarian. Having a lot of abilities useful X times a day or an encounter would be nearly as complicated. If you had to change it make it a flat bonus that applies when the Barbarian rages, for example, instead of auto-confirming a crit it's a +4.