Just one more vote for Psionics as core here as well.
If for no other reason than the only character I ever had get to 17th level before the campaign ended was a Psychic Warrior/Ilithid slayer.
I love psionics.
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If you don't like psionics, then obviously you're not obligated to use it...
Unless it's made core for Pathfinder, and thus becomes a standard occurence in the APs and Monster Manual.
Then I'll be obliged to use it if I want to stick with Pathfinder.
It's not in the core rules of 3.5; the PHB, DMG and MM (I know it's in the SRD, but so is Unearthed Arcana).
All were asking is for more representation...
What you're asking for would be a radical change to a lot of games, including mine. I think you're sorely mistaken if you believe that making psionics core is a small change.
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Unless it's made core for Pathfinder, and thus becomes a standard occurence in the APs and Monster Manual.Then I'll be obliged to use it if I want to stick with Pathfinder.
It's not in the core rules of 3.5; the PHB, DMG and MM (I know it's in the SRD, but so is Unearthed Arcana).
All were asking is for more representation...What you're asking for would be a radical change to a lot of games, including mine. I think you're sorely mistaken if you believe that making psionics core is a small change.
Unless you never used mindflayers, yuan-ti, aboleths or the gith you already had psionics in core 3.5. It really isn't that bad. It's just another kind of magic, one that uses internal powers instead of external ones. Also, Soulknives are fun. They could use some powering up, though. It's not like the inclusion of monks made everyones games like Oriental Adventures.
I'm not sure that Psionics are the highest priority. I don't mind them, and once in a great while I will stat up a villain, like a mind flayer, with psionic classes, but for the most part, I just don't use it much. My daughter played a psychic warrior in one campaign two summers ago, and that was the most my psionic material every got used.
Hey, if Pathfinder RPG goes over, psionics are SRD, so its not like there is a time limit on getting a psionics book. I just wonder if there is enough interest to make the effort profitable.
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Really, if the Soulknife class and some psionic feats were added to PRPG, it would increase diversity, throw a bone to psionics fans like me, not require learning a new system (just a new class and some feats) for those not wanting to do so, and would not require non-psi fans to deal with much more psionics than they already do (with illithids, aboleths, yuan-ti, etc.). It's pretty much a win-win situation.
I would love to see Psionics in core, and, how's this for an idea? Forget about the Soulknife (save that for the supplement) what about making the Monk an official Psionic class? I'm serious about this. A lot of their Class Features could be done with Psionic Feats or Powers that would only have to be explained in the Class description. Self-contained, no extra room needed. I've noticed people on the other threads saying that the Monk needed an overhaul anyways, why not do it psionically? Whaddaya think?
Now that I found the thread, I'd just throw my vote for psionics being made core for Pathfinder.
There has been talk of need for new races and classes to be apart of core, and I think that psionics would fit the bill best. Especially since there are already rules for it. Doesn't require an entire reinvention. ^^
I also beleive that it would open up sticking a bit of psionic to the monk class that would improve it greatly!
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I also beleive that it would open up sticking a bit of psionic to the monk class that would improve it greatly!
I had the same idea. Autohypnosis, if renamed into Discipline to incorporate Psionic Focus as someone had suggested, would make a great addition to the monks skill list, especially when considering that monks never had much use for Concentration before.
I always thought it was a strange skill to have on their list before.
Ok, this really caught my attention earlier today so I decided to try making it. The Psionic Monk!!
Psionic Monk
Basics
BAB = Average
HP = d8
Saves = All Good
Skills = 4+(Int mod); Class Skills = Acrobatics, Climb, Craft, Escape Artist, Intimidate, K (history), Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Stealth, Swim (as of Path 1.1); Discipline, K (Psionics)
Tables
Table 1.1
Special -PP/day
1 Bonus Feat, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike -2
2 Bonus Feat, Evasion -3
3 Still Mind -5
4 Ki Strike (Psionic Fist), Slow Fall -9
5 Purity of Body -13
6 Bonus Feat -18
7 Wholeness of Body -24
8 -31
9 Improved Evasion -39
10 Ki Strike (axiomatic strike), Bonus Feat -48
11 Diamond Body, Greater Flurry -58
12 Abundant Step, -69
13 Diamond Soul -81
14 Bonus Feat -94
15 Quivering Palm -108
16 Ki Strike (adamantine) -123
17 Timeless Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon -139
18 Bonus Feat -156
19 Empty Body -174
20 Perfect Self -193
Table 1.2
Level Flurry of Blows AC Speed
Attack Bonus Bonus Bonus
1st -2/-2 +0 +0 ft.
2nd -1/-1 +0 +0 ft.
3rd +0/+0 +1 +10 ft.
4th +1/+1 +1 +10 ft.
5th +2/+2 +1 +10 ft.
6th +3/+3 +1 +20 ft.
7th +4/+4 +2 +20 ft.
8th +5/+5/+0 +2 +20 ft.
9th +6/+6/+1 +2 +30 ft.
10th +7/+7/+2 +2 +30 ft.
11th +8/+8/+8/+3 +3 +30 ft.
12th +9/+9/+9/+4 +3 +40 ft.
13th +9/+9/+9/+4 +3 +40 ft.
14th +10/+10/+10/+5 +3 +40 ft.
15th +11/+11/+11/+6/+1 +4 +50 ft.
16th +12/+12/+12/+7/+2 +4 +50 ft.
17th +12/+12/+12/+7/+2 +4 +50 ft.
18th +13/+13/+13/+8/+3 +4 +60 ft.
19th +14/+14/+14/+9/+4 +5 +60 ft.
20th +15/+15/+15/+10/+5 +5 +60 ft.
Class Features 1-10
All of the following are class features of the monk.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Monks are proficient with club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling.
Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields.
When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.
Power Points/Day (Su): A monks ability to manifest powers is limited by the number of power points she has. A psychic warrior’s ability to manifest powers is limited by the power points he has available. His base daily allotment of power points is given on Table 1.1 The Monk. In addition, he receives bonus power points per day if he has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Power Points). His race may also provide bonus power points per day, as may certain feats and items.
AC Bonus (Su): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 3th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter (+2 at 7th, +3 at 11th, +4 at 15th level, and +5 at 19th level).
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. This is also dependant on the monk being Psionically focused. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, when she carries a medium or heavy load, or loses her Psionic focus.
Flurry of Blows (Su): When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This action costs 1 PP to use. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make before her next action. When a monk reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to -1, and at 9th level it disappears. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows, except when expending an extra power point, making flurry of blows a standard action.
When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus x 1-1/2 or x 1/2) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The monk can't use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows.
In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability. Even though the quarterstaff requires two hands to use, a monk may still intersperse unarmed strikes with quarterstaff strikes, assuming that she has enough attacks in her flurry of blows routine to do so.
When a monk reaches 11th level, her flurry of blows ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra attack she gets from flurry of blows, she gets a second extra attack at her full base attack bonus. This also costs 1 additional PP.
Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.
Usually a monk's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
A monk's unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
A monk also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, dealing 1d6 points of damage + ½ her level (rounded down) (min 1) + Str modifier. This unarmed damage is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with her unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Table1.3: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage.
Table 1.3: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage
Damage (Small Monk)
1d4
Damage (Large Monk)
1d8
Bonus Feat: At 1st level, a monk may select either Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist or Narrow Mind (Psionic Feat) as a bonus feat. At 2nd level, she may select either Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows or Speed of Thought (Psi) as a bonus feat. At 6th level, she may select either Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, or Up the Walls (Psi) as a bonus feat. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them. At 10th level, and at every 4 levels after (14th and 18th) a monk may choose a bonus feat from either the Combat Feat list or the Psionic Feat list.
Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level or higher if a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to her speed, as shown on Table: The Monk. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.
Still Mind (Su): A monk of 3rd level or higher gains a bonus equal to their level on saving throws against mind-affecting effects.
Ki Strike (Su): At 4th level, a monk's unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. She gains the Psionic feat Psionic Fist as a bonus feat. If this feat is already taken, the character gains the Greater Psionic Fist feat instead. Ki strike improves with the character's monk level. At 10th level, she gains the Aligned Attack as a bonus feat. At 16th level, her unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and bypassing hardness.
Catfall (Su): At 4th level or higher, a monk can recover instantly from a fall and can absorb some damage from falling. You land on your feet no matter how far you fall, and you take damage as if the fall were 10 feet shorter than it actually is. This power affects you and anything you carry or hold (up to your maximum load). You can manifest this power with an instant thought, quickly enough to gain the benefit of the power while you fall. Manifesting the power is an immediate action, like manifesting a quickened power, and it counts toward the normal limit of one quickened power per round. You can manifest this power even when it isn't your turn. Using this power costs 1 power point to use.
-Augment: For every additional power point you spend, this power reduces your damage as if the fall were an additional 10 feet shorter.
Purity of Body (Ex): At 5th level, a monk gains immunity to all diseases except for supernatural and magical diseases. This effect lasts as long as the monk does not exhaust his power points.
Wholeness of Body (Su): At 7th level or higher, a monk can heal her own wounds. She can heal as per the Body Adjustment power, healing 1d12 hit points of damage and spending 7 power points for this use.
-Augment: For every 2 additional power points you spend, this power heals an additional 1d12 points of damage.
Improved Evasion (Ex): At 9th level, a monk's evasion ability improves. She still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Class Features 11-20
Diamond Body (Su): At 11th level, a monk gains immunity to poisons of all kinds. This effect lasts as long as the monk does not exhaust his power points.
Abundant Step (Su): At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip psionically between spaces, as if using the power dimension door, once per day. Her caster level for this effect is one-half her monk level (rounded down). Using this power costs 11 power points.
-Augment: If you spend an additional 6 points, you can use this power as a move action.
Diamond Soul (Ex): At 13th level, a monk gains spell resistance equal to her current monk level + 10. In order to affect the monk with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the monk's spell resistance. This is equally effective against Psionic powers and effects.
Quivering Palm (Su): Starting at 15th level, a monk can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if the monk so desires. She can use this quivering palm attack once a week, and she must announce her intent before making her attack roll. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected, unless the monk has the appropriate Knowledge skill associated with the creature and makes the skill check. Otherwise, if the monk strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the quivering palm attack succeeds. Thereafter the monk can try to slay the victim at any later time, as long as the attempt is made within a number of days equal to her monk level. To make such an attempt, the monk merely wills the target to die (a free action), and unless the target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the monk's level + the monk's Wis modifier), it dies. If the saving throw is successful, the target is no longer in danger from that particular quivering palm attack, but it may still be affected by another one at a later time.
Timeless Body (Su): Upon attaining 17th level, a monk no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when her time is up. She also gains the Timeless Body power, gaining invulnerability for one round, which costs 17 power points per use.
Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Ex): A monk of 17th level or higher can speak with any living creature.
Empty Body (Su): At 19th level, a monk gains the ability to assume an ethereal state as though using the spell/power etherealness. Power point cost for this effect is 17, and only lasts 1 round/level.
Perfect Self: At 20th level, a monk becomes a Psionic creature. She is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the monk's creature type was) for the purpose of spells, powers and effects. Additionally, the monk gains damage reduction 10/magic, which allows her to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a nonmagical weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn't have similar damage reduction. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type.
And that is that. Not too much different, gives a few more options, adjusts the AC slightly, but the addition of power points makes the class more versatile. And I tried to keep it close to the original as possible. Can anyone see how this setup would not work in the Core Rules? Or if it can't in its present format, how easy it would be to tweak it to fit? Monk to me just makes for a great psionic character, and if there can be an intro into the core, this is a logical choice to use. I'm hoping that people will consider the possibility and not reject the idea out of hand. Thanks.
EDIT: Well my editing here sucks. SMURF!
As much as I love and support Psionics, and would love to see the missing 12th class be a Soulknife, for example, I think we might be wasting our time pushing for it in the core rulebook.
I just read today that James Jacobs said there would be no 12th class. In this thread:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/general/okNowThatMyInitalDisgruntlementOverPathfinderRPGIsOver
(Sorry I haven't learned to properly link.)
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There will be psionics in Pathfinder. We've got races using them living underground in the Darklands, across the sea in Vudra, and on other planets. I doubt you'll see them included in the base rules though... unless feedback from the open playtest over then next year and a half convinces us otherwise, of course!
Paradigm Concepts recently released Arcanis: Psionics Unbound. It's basically a reprint of the Psionic Rules from the D20 SRD, but customised for their Arcanis setting. Eg psionic races not appearing in Arcanis are removed, additional base classes, revised feat/powers lists (eg many new, some deleted), completely replaced chapter of prestige classes, etc.
No reason Paizo couldn't publish a similar book customised for the Darklands, Vudra and other planets, with the goal of keeping 3.5 Psionic SRD rules in print.
So, add my vote for Psionics!
You can also add my vote!
I would be a very happy camper if Paizo would integrate Psionics in PFRPG
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You can also add my vote!
I would be a very happy camper if Paizo would integrate Psionics in PFRPG
I'm of two minds ...
1) Practical Reasons:
Pathfinder RPG hardcover should contain only Core classes, eg PHB. There just aren't enough pages to include all the additional rules from the 3.5 Psionic SRD.
a) I wouldn't want important information cut from the PRPG to make room for psionics; and
b) I'm *really* holidng out for Paizo to provide some *serious* Psionics support, as suggested in my post above. Psionics would be better served having a dedicated hardcover all it's own.
2) Removing the Psionic Stigma:
I do feel that Psionics have suffered as a poor cousin to the magic-casting classes due to their exclusion from the Core rulebooks. Their "optional" status has marginalised Psionics in the minds of too many D&D players.
Including Psionic classes as Core in the Pathfinder RPG hardcover would go a long way to promoting Psionics in the minds of players (particularly if supported by Pathfinder adventures, Pathfinder Society etc).
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However, based on Jame's comments, I feel that Paizo are positioning themselves to support Psionics, but only when they've developed those areas of their world that require them (Darklands, Vudra, other planets).
That way they can tailor the Psionic rules (races, classes, powers, prestige classes etc) to better support those cultures/flavour, instead of simply reprinting the Psionic 3.5 SRD. Arcanis: Psionics Unbound is a good example.
If Paizo are releasing the Pathfinder RPG hardcover in order to keep the Core 3.5 rules in print for their published adventures, then they will also require a version of the Psionic 3.5 rules in print once they start releasing information on Darklands, Vudra and other planets.
Also consider, the alpha/beta testing/development phase is a laborious process. Focusing on Core and Psionic rules independently might be a better organised approach.
Might as well try out the new skin.
Hi yall it's the poster formerly known as sexi golem. Been awhile.
I am not a fan of psionics. I'm not interested in their balance (our group did not find them to be balanced) because balance seems to be pretty relative to the type of game you run and the type of people you play with.
Thus resulting in the large gap of people with differing opinions. I'd like to suggest that "Bad DMing" or "munchkanism" doesn't have to be the cause of the balance issue.
Many groups can contain wonderful players and DM's but differ wildly in type of enemies encountered, amount of wealth and down time, availability and use of cohorts and allies, teamwork dynamics between PCs and a many variables that define what concepts will strive and which will strugle. A new system like psionics might not mesh well with the type of game you run. And if your system is working and you and your friends are having fun, then it isn't a sign of smallmindedness or laziness to not want to redrill your square hole so that the round peg can fit. Much the same way as no one is betraying the soul of D&D (a game that has always spoken to me as one of defying conventional entertainment and supplying the players all the tools they needed to reinvent the game in the name of fun) for wanting to include a fairly unconventional component. Yes I consider it non-core. The small psionic components of D&D like the mind flayer and gith abilities always worked the same as normal magic for all intensive purposes. They were a nice edition and made those monsters more special in my opinion and more connected. But psionics in the core rules to me seem like a vestigial, if interesting, throwback to the monsters origins.
And I really don't like psionics. They don't sit right with me. I don't like the races. Half Giants being mental savants strikes me as ludicrous. My campaigns are shaped by the the world I know and trying to see how different it would be with the addition of magic and monters and other dominant races. My D&D perspective wasn't quite roomy enough to fit a world with magic, monsters, races, psionic magic and psionic races. I never felt the need to work them in either since I was so comfortable with what I had and was so happy with arcane magic that psionics looked more annoying than interesting. The few times we tried playing them in our gamer group did little to bolster psionic love.
I would prefer that psionics stay out of the core rules. I'm not sure I quite understand the crusade to get them into the rules so that more people will respect and like them more or see them as more vital. I don't think psionics are stupid or a terrible idea. I'm fine with them being around in official adventures as well. But mage acadamies, Wizard's towers, and dragons made of teeth and scales instead of crystals or gems will always resonate with me as the quintessence of fantasy roleplaying. So I'd find it more enjoyable the a "core" rulebook would remain traditional and have the workings and classes and races of psionics in a different sourcebook.
That said if many people are excited to see psionics integrated more completely, I won't be throwing a hissy fit in defeat. If it's what the people want and it's doable then that is what should be done. I'll simply whittle psions out of my version of the world where I desire.
But if only a small majority of people want psionics in the core then please don't use space in the core to placate. You could do it with an expansion handbook that won't interfere with me and the others who don't prefer them and do not wish to spend money on them.
Is it possible to raise a voting system to help resolve this or at least get a more accurate feel for public opinion?
[<snip>
1) Practical Reasons:Pathfinder RPG hardcover should contain only Core classes, eg PHB. There just aren't enough pages to include all the additional rules from the 3.5 Psionic SRD.
I don't think there needs to be all that much in the core rule book. The Eberron Campaign Setting truly does not have many pages dedicated to psionics, and psionics are truly incorporated into the system.
As for those of us that really like psionics and would like to see them in the core rule book, I think we know the amount of work that would take to bring the core classes up to the PRPG upgrade, plus whatever changes to the psionics mechanics themselves.
I don't expect to see anything big in the first books.
But I would love to see even just a paragraph that says what James Jacobs said: Psionics are encoutered in <insert continent> and <insert region> and on remote <insert cosmic term> but are not unheard of in Varisia.
It would give a jumping point for anyone that wants to play a 3.x psion. In the begining, it would be nice just to know where your psionic PC could be from, even if that area isn't detailed in full.
... totally belong in fantasy.
Go to a library or bookstore and pick up Steven Brust's Dragaera series (the "Vlad Taltos" novels). They have the first few novels collected in nice trades now.
Go on, I'll wait.
hum, hum, hum
Oh, you're back! Great. Now read it and see how it may not be *called* psionics, but basically it's a high-magic and high-psionic world and has zero to do with sci-fi.
Now, go and vote for psionics in PFRPG ala the Eberron book (minimal). And then let's lobby for a SRD reprint for Golarion like mentioned above.
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Ok, this really caught my attention earlier today so I decided to try making it. The Psionic Monk!!
I like this setup a great deal. I just converted one of my player's multi-classed monk over using this and it did wonders for him. The unarmed damage conversion worried him at first, due to the lowered damage die (he was doing 1d10+3 points of damage). But then we calculated the average damage for each version:
1d10+3 AVG dam 8-9 points
1d6+6 AVG dam 9-10 points
and this was before taking into account the Psionic Fist bonus feat.
His min damage increased (going from 4 points to 7) but his max decreased (13 points then as compared to 12 points now), but he doesn't mind.
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Another vote for including at least a little psionics in the primary book.
I've had the same idea of doing a psionic monk in the past, and I think it works well, but I'm not sure that it's entirely appropriate for PFRPG with its emphasis on backwards compatibility. But if I had the liberty of doing a complete redesign, that's totally how I'd do it.
Another vote for including at least a little psionics in the primary book.
I am renewing my stance on this... I'd like to see a nod to it as well.
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I know this isn't a democracy, but I'd like to add another vote to see Psionics included in the core game as well. I think Psionics has suffered as "oh, that optional system for those weirdos from 1st edition" right up into 3.5 - it'd be nice to see a system where it's incorporated right out of the gate.
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Man, I hope you include workups for psionics. This is me, throwing in my two centavos to say, "Please."
I thought that psionics were kind of cool, until my campaign ended up having a Soulknife. And when that campaign hat to come to a temporary halt, another player came up with a Psiforged Evoker / Kineticist / Cerebremancer.
The moment the first installment of the Pathfinder RPG came out, We halted and retooled characters for the new system, because we all love what we've seen so far.
So please, Psionics. Please.
Oh, if anyone wants psionic dragons for Pathfinder, I've co-created some alternatives to the gem dragons at EN World and am willing to make more and make them available.
I think if Psionics are included at all, it will need to start in the core rules. If you publish it as a seperate book, then the logistics issues start piling up. Look - a book about nobles - none of whom are psionic. Aha! The illithids are the foes of this story arc - but none of it is psionic.
HOWEVER, I also agree with the core arguments of people who are over-reacting and pleading for no psionics at all - it needs to be balanced and better thought out than the one in 'official' DnD. It needs to be integrated so that both arcane and divine magic are distinct from it. AND there should be enough overlap that clerics can still use divination and wizards meddle with minds (using enchantments).
Above all, I think the first thing I would do is NOT make the psion class an imitation of the wizard. (Although I *do* support the idea of a set of abilities based on discipline and level, similar to wizard specialist abilities and clerical domain abilities.) By which I don't mean using the level-slot mechanic for FX (much as I hate it, it seems to be the dominant philosophy for over two decades); rather the same way that you can tell a cleric and a wizard apart, you should be able to tell the psionic from both.
THAT said, I'd rather not see a splintering of FX to the degree where spells, prayers, incantations, infusions, mysteries, melds, manifestations, et al. are each their own entirely seperate bags, so that only members of the new classes gain any benefit from the new rulebooks.
Honestly, I'd rather have a multiple-thread forum on psionics than just this one, but I don't have the time for it just now.
Which is why I suggested implementing the Soulknife, a few psionic feats, the Discipline skill (as suggested above) and psionic focus in the main rules would suffice to allow it to work well. A simple sidebar easily transforms the Soulknife into the Mageblade, psionic feats into Enlightened Feats and psionic focus to just "combat focus" and those who dislike psionic flavoring can use that, alternative flavoring, instead. All in all that would add about 5-8 pages (depending on number of feats included) to the book, but would tie in psionics and make for a perfect bridge to any coming Pathfinder Psionics Handbook.
I completely support Psionics inclusion into the Pathfinder RPG.
I think it's silly to point at one class or set of classes and say thay they would "get in the way" of a game.
I've played Arcane-free and Divine-Free games... and ya know I haven't ever tripped over a rule I didn't use.
Give us VARIETY! Some will use it, others won't. But the common theme will be happy gamers!
+1 for PSIONICS!
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Which is why I suggested implementing the Soulknife, a few psionic feats, the Discipline skill (as suggested above) and psionic focus in the main rules would suffice to allow it to work well. A simple sidebar easily transforms the Soulknife into the Mageblade, psionic feats into Enlightened Feats and psionic focus to just "combat focus" and those who dislike psionic flavoring can use that, alternative flavoring, instead. All in all that would add about 5-8 pages (depending on number of feats included) to the book, but would tie in psionics and make for a perfect bridge to any coming Pathfinder Psionics Handbook.
+1(,000) :)
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Which is why I suggested implementing the Soulknife, a few psionic feats, the Discipline skill (as suggested above) and psionic focus in the main rules would suffice to allow it to work well. A simple sidebar easily transforms the Soulknife into the Mageblade, psionic feats into Enlightened Feats and psionic focus to just "combat focus" and those who dislike psionic flavoring can use that, alternative flavoring, instead. All in all that would add about 5-8 pages (depending on number of feats included) to the book, but would tie in psionics and make for a perfect bridge to any coming Pathfinder Psionics Handbook.
Agreed. Including the Soulknife seems a great way to gently introduce the idea of Psionics into the Core rules and the creative minds of thousands of gamers. One class out of 12 isn't swamping the Core rules with Psionics, but could generate more interest in a future Pathfinder Psionics hardcover describing the other Psionic classes and full Psionic rules.
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Chalk up yet another "pro-psionics" person.
Myself, I like to have a clairsentient NPC in the group when I'm DMing to act as my voice. I don't use the NPC to steer party actions so much as to provide greater insight to something I thought was pretty cool and wanted to share with the players - more of a fluff-dispenser if you will. I also like to play a Psionic when I get the chance - lots of fun and definitely something different. Expanded Psionics Handbook was a great product. Jason can only make it even better.
No psionics for me.
Psionics is the one thing that would stop me from buying a book written by J. Buhlman.
The problem I have with the Soulknife is that it's not really a class. The ability to shape a blade with your mind is a nifty gimmick, but why on earth did they build a class around it? Mindblades should have been a feat chain, and if the Soulknife is included it should be in the form of a feat chain. That way anybody who takes the Mindblade feat(s) can call himself a Soulknife.
Dreamscarred Press did exactly that here.
Some of their other products also expand the soulknife with some cool feats. I think including some of these mind blade feat chains in the Pathfinder RPG would be excellent. In fact, (with Dreamscarred's blessing to be nice), I would love to see Paizo poaching pretty much the entirety of the above linked product for the Pathfinder RPG. Sure, it may kill the sale of that one product, but if makes psionics a bit more mainstream, then it would only help Dreamscarred in the long run. But that's just me babbling. Either way, if you want to have the mind blade be a feat chain (as it really works best as), buy that PDF. It's good stuff.
There will be psionics in Pathfinder. We've got races using them living underground in the Darklands, across the sea in Vudra, and on other planets. I doubt you'll see them included in the base rules though... unless feedback from the open playtest over then next year and a half convinces us otherwise, of course!
"Gygax: Oh yeah. There's a number of things in Advanced Dungeons & Dragons that I never should have done. I shouldn't have put Psionics in there, but somebody talked me into it." (GameSpy Interview)
I am throwing my hat in for Psionics. I would love to see it worked up to fit into the new 3.5 ruleset. Having it integrated into the game as Eberron did into its campaign setting is what I would like but a supplement would do just fine (HINT).
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I'm in favor of a second book with psionic information in it and the core book including information like in the eberron campaign setting 1-2 paragraghs about each race and class saying where the race fit in to the settiing and who would use the classes
it would be great if paizo could use dreamscarred's stuff or cooperated with them in makeing a psionics book for glorian
I like Psionics!
I also like pie, so what do I know?
I'm gratified to see so many pro-psionic voices. Indeed, it seems the anti-psions are a vast minority (at least among board posting fan boys) with the pros ranging from full support, to a little core loving to wanting a supplement.
For myself I'd like to see the Psion, Soul Blade and Psychic Warrior get core treatment but a supplement might be more rational.
I was just looking at the site blog and looked again at the Iconic Barbarian Amiri, and was looking at the new Rage abilities. Anyone else looks vaguely like the way Psionics works mechanically? By the looks of it you have a certain number of points per day to spend (Rage points instead of PP), certain powers to devote them to, and the ability to enhance the powers by devoting more points to it. This is just a first glance, and a little guesswork on my part because the next alpha chapter isn't up yet, but maybe that is the way that Pathfinder RPG is going to go, with a character system that will allow characters be able to choose how many points get placed into a particular action in the run of a day, giving more versatility. This is exactly how psionics in 3.5 is run! We may not need a new class to introduce Psionics; if the mechanics change in this way, Psionics would be a natural part of the whole.
Discuss.