I'm kinda wondering if it wouldn't be worth poking Paizo to shift the location of the gamers connection thread t either just above or below the PbP forums, just for ease of spotting anything interesting that might be starting up.
Sooner or later they will probably do something for us, even if just to acknowledge that we're becoming a fairly big pbp forum.
Connection really could stand being at the top of the section. On the other hand I think it's the pbps cycling down the forums top ten list that gets people interested.
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Honestly, I'm not sure pre-made modules would work very well in a PbP environment.Not sure I agree with that - what are you basing that on? A number of the games on this site are using pre-made modules or adventure paths, many of them very successfully. One of the games I'm DMing uses a combination of modified Dungeon magazine modules and my own stuff, whilst the other I'm running Age of Worms, only slightly modified. Both seem to be going well. Of the games I'm playing in its probably close to 50/50 pre-made to original.
Blope - the key seems to be that (as a player in one of Mothman's games) it is seamless. I cannot tell what is his and what comes from Dungeon.
You do need to pick the right module.
Cheers
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I'm kinda wondering if it wouldn't be worth poking Paizo to shift the location of the gamers connection thread t either just above or below the PbP forums, just for ease of spotting anything interesting that might be starting up.
Nonono! They really shouldn't do that! I'd only join more games or be tempted to start more up!
*twitch*
i love the players I've found and the various DMs who are rather foolishly letting me play in their games but I really should be good and not join more...
Pish Kayos, the scene where Swift ran off with the cashbox? Ab-so-freakin'-lutely priceless. You are a funny player, I relish crafting scenes for all of y'all while bored stiff at work. Now if I can only justify buying that wireless connection air card ....URRGGHHH
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Adventurers these days just don't understand the true value of a nice trapped box, sometimes the contents of a box like that are worth less than the box itself. Besides, she thwarted it and it's jabby needle so it's hers now!
But really, I should stop signing up to things, I'm up to playing in 9 PBPs and running 4! it's a good thing I'm unemployed really!
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Adventurers these days just don't understand the true value of a nice trapped box, sometimes the contents of a box like that are worth less than the box itself. Besides, she thwarted it and it's jabby needle so it's hers now!
But really, I should stop signing up to things, I'm up to playing in 9 PBPs and running 4! it's a good thing I'm unemployed really!
Your not unemployed... your a house wife :-p
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Your not unemployed... your a house wife :-pDon't say that! That means I have to finish all of this tidying up before you guys come over tomorrow and mess it all up again with your roleplayerness! :P
I suppose reminding you that I have a docs appointment mid afternoon and will there fore probably show up somewhat early wouldn't be appreciated then :-). (and we all know its the Evil one who makes the mess in his teenagery way.)
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I GM a PbP game over on ENWorld. It is Burnt Offerings, and had initially 5 players. We are down now to 4 players, after about 6 months of play. The player that fell away had a really interesting character concept that I enjoyed, but one day he just stopped posting.
Anyway, my observations are as follows:
Player Involvement As GM you need to force the game a bit more, and that can mean that you define very clearly the required player involvement (e.g. all players must be able to post once per day during the working week, with any absences to be posted to the OOC thread). Then, if they don't post, you need to take control of their character for that day, trying to keep them faithful to the way the player has been controlling them. You cannot wait. If you have 3 good posters waiting on 1 bad, or even if the failed poster rotates randomly, you could easily double the time it takes to get the game going. So, when there is a gap, take control, and move things on.
Making Decisions You can easily lose a few days just waiting for the party to come to an agreement of which door to open next. Avoid this by stating that you need a decision soon, and will take the first decision if no consensus is reached within the day. Players do not want to wait for all four people to agree that room C is the next room on the list. They want to burst in there and get roleplaying or fighting with the next challenge.
Keep it Interesting Player's input can wane on occassion, but the best way to avoid this is to keep the game interesting. Make sure your own posts are reasonably descriptive. Include challenges that test all of the players in different ways. Tie them into the story. In ours, we have a barbarian who is in lust with an NPC and is pretty much trying to save the town to impress her (and get her father's permission to pursue). We have another who was a scallywag, always in trouble with the law, who is now revelling in his new-found fame. He loves nothing more that walking around town with his ceremonial guard cloak on, but cannot help himself from falling in with his old buddies for a round of heavy duty gambling on occassion.
I have also thrown some non-combat decisions at the players. In the throne room on Thistletop the majority of the clan were gathered, including infants. It changed the nature of combat and post-combat, including making a decision on whether to let the infants go.
I have also tried to reward innovative ideas more than I would in an offline game. Offline you get a constant stream of ideas from your players (are there any trees that look weak nearby, do you think I could topple it with a fireball, do you think I could use my whip to try and topple his magical crown, etc.), that you can respond to on the spot. With a PbP game, less questions like this get asked as the players know that it can take a day or two for each question to be answered, and a plan to be formulated. That means that when they do come up with a really good idea, you need to give a bit more leeway than you normally might.
Only Start if you are Serious
It takes a long time to play a single adventure from start to finish using a PbP format. I am running Burnt Offerings. We are in the dungeon layer 1 of Thistletop. I am not sure when I started, but probably late last year? We have 62 pages of posts now on ENWorld, at I guess 15 posts per page (and this is only the IC, we have another 10 pages of OOC, and a few of character info, etc.). Each post by me can take from 10 minutes, to 1 hour when we are in the middle of a complex battle that requires me to redraw the battle map, resolve each action, etc.
My guess would be that it takes about 1400 posts to complete a standard Paizo adventure. This equates to about 350 phases of actions with an average of 4 people participating in each phase (including the GM, so on average one person missing on each phase). A phase may take a day. Some days you can get 2 done. To do an adventure probably takes 9 to 12 months. Some games go faster. Many more die!
Engage
Talk to people. Ask them if things are okay. Ask (not too often, just once a month or so) if they are enjoying it. Make sure that you include little slivers of excitement crafted to each player. Tailor the items you hand out to reward each player at different times. Tell them when you are going on holiday, and make sure you post a really good, narrative post before you go on holiday that perhaps leaks a few new clues (or red herrings) and makes them excited for when you return.
That would be my advise. Most of all though: ENJOY!
I GM a PbP game over on ENWorld....
Dude that was awesome advice, thanks!
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Just sticking my nose in to say how much I enjoy playing in all my pbp games. They all have a different flavour and pace to them and I'd be saddened if any of them fell by the wayside.
I'm a tragic victim of PbP-itis (where is that 12-step programme when you need it?). If this was the Oscars, the following would be thanked in no particular order:
Fabeminis, Kayos, xdahnx, Dreamweaver, Taliesin Hoyle and Tarren Dei for DMing the various games. All the other players in those games (some of them are the same folks) who have to put up with my wordy PCs.
Shutting up now.
You interested in one more Rev Rosey?
One thing that can help is to have large groups. The games I'm in have 8 players. If one or two miss a day, it's no big deal. We also encourage post every day and do a weekly posting report to encourage active posting. Have someone be a backup DM if possible. That will help out tremendously if RL gets in the way.(That darn RL! How dare it interfere with playing DnD!)
With 8 players you might think they will breeze through combats, but it rarely happens. Tactics are much less coordinated than they would be if sitting around a table.
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Curious--with 8 players, what do you find is best for challenge ratings of opponents? I've been trying to adjust my fire on that so to speak. It seems like a CR of 4 above party level is a good scrap, but a lot of things at that level can tend to be nigh-immune to the party's weaponry at their level.
You interested in one more Rev Rosey?
For me, I'm at my limit - turned down a Golarion 4E with huge reluctance earlier this week. Lion of Irori is back in circulation once things quieten down a bit for him end of next week though.
I went up 2 levels without killing anything, man.
That's not D&D!
Awwwww, you do miss me.
*Sets light to poodle*
I don't think anyone on this thread has mentioned play-by-email games. I've played in probably half a dozen play-by-post games and half a dozen play-by-email games. I don't know if it's just my bad luck, but I've never had a play-by-post game last more than a few months (so far...) and I've had at least four play-by-email games that have lasted 4+ years. There are a few differences:
1) I can have all of my e-mail sent to a single account, so I don't need to check different message threads on different web sites to keep up to date on my games.
2) Players generally have to seek out a play-by-email game rather than stumbling across it, so you're more likely to know the feel of the game beforehand (i.e. it runs slow, sometimes it stalls, etc.) rather than being unpleasantly surprised.
3) You can send secret OOC messages easier via email than via sblocks, etc.
Generally I agree with what has been said so far: usually you get a flurry of activity followed by something much more slower-paced. Also, big parties are nothing to be afraid of (unless you're running a pre-made adventure and you don't like tinkering with it). And a few higher-powered encounters are more efficient than fighting a bunch of peons (which can take forever). And the DM shouldn't be afraid to replace players who drop out.
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Thanks Rev Rosey!
Of course, you're the one who suggests that "Maybe I'll play a character who hears voices. And is a little bonkers.", adding 5 more characters to the party. 9PCs but 5 bodies...
--
What I really dig about the PBP system, is that it allows for a story (and the characters in them) to exist and flow in a way that is literally impossible in an 'offline' or paper game.
Those interested should check out the 'Strange Loops' Thread. (and read the intros first, or it will make the opposite of sense.)
Bump--Sharoth--Hewligan's post about 5 or 6 up was the best summation of what I've been talking about.
This whole thread's pretty good too.
ANOTHER
thing I like to do is, since the pbp is recorded, I can go back and study the players--what they liked, what they said "meh" to.
This gives me the ability to fine tune things their way. It's an inexact science, but I think there's something to it.
I had a thought--I'm gonna see if they'll sticky this thread. Does anybody find this thing useful?
That was actually my thought as well. About making the thread a sticky one. Good going, were-mutt!
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I had a thought--I'm gonna see if they'll sticky this thread. Does anybody find this thing useful?That was actually my thought as well. About making the thread a sticky one. Good going, were-mutt!
If people post ways of presenting maps or die rolling that would make it worth it. Also advice on how to speed up combat on PHP's would be great also.
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We do "a-z across the top, 1-25 down the side," and I describe out the room by those coordinates. I have a few guys like Kruelaid, fake healer, and Ithuriel that'll put an actual map up from that too; it's kinda snazzy and It's on my to-do list to learn up how to do something like that.
Combat's....gonna be slow; I usually do player's init, enemy's init, and let the players post their actions when they can instead of in personal initiative order; some people don't do it like that but I'm cool with it. Still, combat can be slow, take a week maybe, though I had one combat (with two or maybe three p.c.'s involved) resolve in about an hour and a half. Mothman said "that was the Guinness Book of World Records fastest pbp combat EVAR."
Though combat's slow, I think that actual roleplaying is more in-depth than is possible at a 'table face to face. You have a lot more time to figure out what to say and make it great stuff.
On the subject of visuals in PbPs; my Ashenport game spawned one of my new favourite moments. Upon being shown an illustration of the demon lord Dagon (with teeny human for size comparison), the barbarian of the group (Lazaro) remarked:
"Hmm...not much to look at. That squid in the background is more 'frightening'"
Well, it made me laugh.
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Combat's....gonna be slow; I usually do player's init, enemy's init, and let the players post their actions when they can instead of in personal initiative order; some people don't do it like that but I'm cool with it. Still, combat can be slow, take a week maybe, though I had one combat (with two or maybe three p.c.'s involved) resolve in about an hour and a half. Mothman said "that was the Guinness Book of World Records fastest pbp combat EVAR."
That's what I've ended up doing, I have everyone roll initiative and post their actions when they can for the turn, then I tally the results and tell them what happened in initiative order.
As for maps, I draw up simple maps on windows paint and post them on my account on deviant art and attach a link the players can go to, But deviant art is a pain to work with. If somebody has a better way to make and post maps I would like to know what it is.
I use Fractal Mapper which comes up with basic stuff quickly and well (although I've yet to work out a non-faffy way to put the coordinates in). I post a basic, unadorned version to Photobucket and then add the pcs and monsters as text decorations.
It's relatively easy to update, although the constant editing sometimes throws Photobucket for a loop and it sends players to something from two rounds earlier.
In my (limited) experience, how fast combat goes is very dependent on init order and time zones of the players. It can go fairly quickly, but the nature of pbp combat is not fast. One thing I do in all my games is put in a 24 hour cut off time which I'm extremely rigorous about. If someone doesn't post within 24 hours, I act on behalf of their pc. I'm up front about this from the outset and so far it's worked OK. The games move along and the players know that if they're caught out by real life they won't be holding anyone up.
I'm running games in 4E when a lot of possible actions are dependent on what other players do, so I use a block system pioneered by Pat512. Players and monsters are grouped in small chunks and I deal with one block at a time when resolving attacks and providing narrative links.
In theory, I use Invisible Castle for dice rolls, but if often refuses to believe I exist. At this point I usually give up and home roll. Players can do as they wish. I'm happy to trust them because really, why is this is a game you'd cheat over?
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Upon being shown an illustration of the demon lord Dagon (with teeny human for size comparison), the barbarian of the group (Lazaro) remarked:
"Hmm...not much to look at. That squid in the background is more 'frightening'"
I can't let have Mandrake and the others have all the funniest lines :)
I find myself having to shake alot of rust off to DM my current/first pbp. One thing that I have hated was having to roll a save for player that's been absent for a few days. Unfortunately the save failed and I know have to deal with a blind half-orc monk (Sorry Wellard)
Happy New Years DMs and Players!
Looks like you're rocketing along with your pbp Lazaro, so you must be doing something right. Are you enjoying it? I was so nervous before I started my first pbp game and was frankly astonished how much fun I found it to DM again.
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Looks like you're rocketing along with your pbp Lazaro, so you must be doing something right. Are you enjoying it? I was so nervous before I started my first pbp game and was frankly astonished how much fun I found it to DM again.
I'm still nervous. I just don't mess this up. But I am Looking forward to run the Scales of War AP after this...If all goes well that is
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Good idea on getting this thread stickied Heath!
Speaking of long combats, our current fight in Aubrey’s Eberron game has been going for about 9 pages (that’s 400+ posts) and 6 weeks or so real time … but the funny thing is not how long it’s gone for, but that I’ve still been on the edge of my seat, what’s going to happen next, log in to see if its my turn again yet for the whole time. So slow combats don’t necessarily have to mean boring ones.
Ubermench, re mapping, when I have the time and inclination to draw up a map for my players, I usually sketch it out on grid paper, scan it, and upload it to Photobucket.
From a DM side; player turn over has been a real drag; each game seems to take several weeks start up time for people to make characters; this tends to pull games down as the other players get anxious waiting for other players - when I do it again, I will just start each player as their characters are ready, but this holds things up from the real planned adventure. In the PBP game I am running; I have had about 100% player turnover. Not sure what to take away from that.
One really cool thing about pbp is that my gamers who have been in my gaming circle for decades can get online and read the pbp and chuckle their heads off; I get calls from them as they see all the plots and sub plots I am generating and that nearly all the players have no clue; this is how it should be, but my non player readership is growing which is pretty cool in my book. Some of the calls i have recieved have left me laughing and gasping for breath. Thanks Paizo :)for bringing this all together and making it possible.
On the player side of PBP; wow; that has been a very big dissappointment; I have a whole paizo bin of characters from failed play by post games. It really sucks to be in a game that falls apart; even the Dark Sun game; where I am generally lost but having a good time; (smile if you see the pun in that) has been down for a while but we players like it and want it back so we dont let the thread die hoping for the cold fingers of death to back off and the gm to breath some much needed life back into the game.
I think game fail because gm's fail; get to busy; have to many pbp running or whatever reason; seems there are lots of players; havent seen any player dm things that kill a game; seems to be just a question of two main things:
1) the game is not flowing as the dm or players expected; pbp does take more than usual patience.
2) RL intrudes and changes a player or dm's situation so they cannot play or post as often.
on tertiary things is just pbp dissenchantment in general; only saw that twice.
big sigh for all those pbp characters I have that are languishing. Off to roll some thunder into my pbp; hope you stop by and say hi.
Val
wow; what a cool idea
Combat's....gonna be slow; I usually do player's init, enemy's init, and let the players post their actions when they can instead of in personal initiative order; some people don't do it like that but I'm cool with it. Still, combat can be slow, take a week maybe, though I had one combat (with two or maybe three p.c.'s involved) resolve in about an hour and a half. Mothman said "that was the Guinness Book of World Records fastest pbp combat EVAR."
That's what I've ended up doing, I have everyone roll initiative and post their actions when they can for the turn, then I tally the results and tell them what happened in initiative order.
As for maps, I draw up simple maps on windows paint and post them on my account on deviant art and attach a link the players can go to, But deviant art is a pain to work with. If somebody has a better way to make and post maps I would like to know what it is.
Stickied! W00t!
Paizo is PBP craziness!
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This is a great thread; I'm glad they made it a sticky or I might have never found it. There is much good advice here for a newbie PbP DM struggling with his own game.
But I think what Valegrim said above is spot on. By far the most important thing for a PbP game is DM commitment. I've found that it is much more work to run one than it is to play in one. All of the long-running games I am playing in have committed, reliable and skilled DM's, and it seems like by far the most common reason games fail is due to DMs that disappear, or fail to post for long stretches at a time.
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I love the aspect of PbP...
There seems to be more role-play involved typically.
I'm involved in 4 as a player (Last Baron, Paranoia, Last War, and L5R)and I'm thinking of runnning a Dhakhanni Eberron game...
I use Dundjinni for my mapping, which if you're just doing battle maps is lightning fast, at least for me it is...and there is a lot of stuff on the site you can use that has been made by the community. Also it has built in layering.
Thanks Rimrock; as gm of my namesake homebrew pbp; I am having a great time gm'ing it; when I am waiting for posts; I have have a pc start spouting some history or somesuch; give a weather report; hehe and the like; the game is starting to warm up with some interaction; very soon we will actually start the adventure; hehe; i hope
Ok. I should have re-read the thread, but I figured that it can't hurt to ask again.
How do you all handle maps and mapping for a PBP? I have the maps in PDF form, but I am hesitant to just import them into my Photobucket account because some of them have secret rooms and the like showing. And while we are at it, how do you all copy and crop PDFs? I was need to do that for a few player handouts.
Thanks in advance for whatever info you all want to give.
Ok. I should have re-read the thread, but I figured that it can't hurt to ask again.
How do you all handle maps and mapping for a PBP? I have the maps in PDF form, but I am hesitant to just import them into my Photobucket account because some of them have secret rooms and the like showing. And while we are at it, how do you all copy and crop PDFs? I was need to do that for a few player handouts.
Thanks in advance for whatever info you all want to give.
I use the snapshot tool in Adobe Reader. Tools>Select&Zoom>Snapshot tool. This will copy the current page. Then I use Photoshop elements, put up a new PSD file (CTRL+N) and then CTRL+V the snapshotted PDF page onto it as a new layer. You can then crop, magic tool and play around to your scaly heart's content. With maps I usually put in a layer 'gloom', for seeing somewhat and 'darkness' for areas that can't be seen. I put all secret stuff on a different layer as well. As the players progress I erase the darkness and gloom layer out to the visibility limit and reveal secret stuff and traps as found.
My loose rule of thumb is a month without extenuating circumstances. I recently had a player who was stricken with illnesss, so I have kept his character DMPCed for three months, but presently I am moving them towards stasis until he can return.
Having a silent PC can really drag a game down. Usually I take a character's move, especially during combat if they are disappearing for more than two days without posting.
