Twenty bucks (US) for each issue? That's 250% raise over current Dungeon magazine for same number of pages. No freaking way, people! I hate paying $8 a month (newsstand price), and I make $100K a year.
Twenty bucks (US) for each issue? That's 250% raise over current Dungeon magazine for same number of pages. No freaking way, people! I hate paying $8 a month (newsstand price), and I make $100K a year.
Keep in mind that Pathfinder has NO ADS. This means that you're really getting close to twice the actual page count, since less of that space will be wasted.
Twenty bucks (US) for each issue? That's 250% raise over current Dungeon magazine for same number of pages. No freaking way, people! I hate paying $8 a month (newsstand price), and I make $100K a year.Keep in mind that Pathfinder has NO ADS. This means that you're really getting close to twice the actual page count, since less of that space will be wasted.
For me its not so much an issue of content per dollar as it an issue of cost. Granted, the new Pathfinder format will give us much more content, but at a much higher cost. I currently subscribe to both Dungeon and Dragon magazines for a total cost of roughly 80 bucks per year. A one-year (or as they so intelligently put it- a “month by month” for 12 months subscription to Pathfinder will cost after shipping, roughly 216 dollars (assuming I’m doing my math correctly at 19.99 coverprice –30% + 4.00 shipping x12). I’m sorry but that’s an extra 136 dollars a year taken from my other hobbies or interests or needs. Four rounds of golf with buddies, a couple nights out on the town, or my daughter’s school lunch for half the school year. Heck, I like to buy a couple rule books per year and at $35 a book, that’s almost 4 new books! I love Paizo’s material and feel as if I know Eric and James and all the rest almost personally from the close attention they pay to the boards, but honestly I cannot justify this expense. I game with 2 other DMs every other week, and with rotating shifts, I’ve only gotten through the first 4 AOW installments. At this rate, it will take me another two years to finish AOW. What do I need with more campaign arcs? I bought Dungeon for much more than the adventure paths or even the adventures themselves, not to mention the plethora content in Dragon magazine. Heck two years from now, I can start Savage Tides, and that path will probably take three years to run. As far as I can see I’m set on adventures for five years. I have no need, as much as I wish I did, to subscribe to Pathfinder. I wish you all luck, but I’ll take my $32 bucks back and feed my daughter for the month.
I know how you feel, Roy. Most of us have trouble getting through one path a year. Now, I'm going to be perfectly happy accumulating the extra material, because I enjoy reading it as much as anything, but I am surprised that Pathfinder isn't going to be Bi-Monthy. The monthly rate of publication threatens to overwhelm the 'book' market for it, and the extra subscription cost seems to discourage some of the 'magazine' market. If it were bi-monthy, Paizo would still be putting out a path a year, with supplimentary materials, and would only have half the art/writing/publication expense, but they'd probably still get 2/3 the revenue.
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I will here compare cover prices. Not exact I know.
Pathfinder cover price 19.99 x 12 = 239.88
Dragon and Dungeon (7.99 x 2) x 12 = 191.76
If my math is off I apologize. And of course your individual may be different due to how much your subscription that you traded in cost and wether or not you intend to purchase retail or subscribe. But the added cost for me is worth it for the following reasons among others.....
I and my group will be getting in on the ground floor of a new campaign setting.
The quality of product paizo produces is unparallelled in my opinion.
I will not just be buying an awesome campaign produced by the industrie's best authors and production team, but also running for my group a set of adventures with a support structure like no other.
For me the extra 4.01 each month is nothing compared to the depth my games reach with the added material and feedback I have access to here at paizo.com. Not to mention the free pdf that will be an immense aid.
Just my take though.
Tam
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For me the extra 4.01 each month is nothing compared to the depth my games reach with the added material and feedback I have access to here at paizo.com. Not to mention the free pdf that will be an immense aid.Just my take though.
Tam
Absolute agreement. I had a Dragon subscription back in the 80s, but except for those three years when "AHA!" was still a cool band, I've been buying retail with no more than a 10% discount; that's some 20 years of I think $3.99 to $8 per issue--I just began subscribing to both magazines a little more than a year ago: not long enough to notice the savings of a subscription when you've been buying retail for more than two decades...
I will here compare cover prices. Not exact I know.
Pathfinder cover price 19.99 x 12 = 239.88
Dragon and Dungeon (7.99 x 2) x 12 = 191.76
Okay, now divide that by two because both Dragon and Dungeon come in at about 96 pages, as will Pathfinder. So you're still getting half the content, ads or no ads, at more cost.
Listen, y'all. $20 for a 96-page perfect-bound splat book is charity, especially when you consider the lack of advertisements and the fact that all of the material will be catered to those involved with the Adventure Path.
Back in 1997, the first book Eden published was Cryptozoology for the Conspiracy X RPG. I'd like to think our production quality was good (George Vasilakos is a great Art Director, and Alex Jurkat a great editor). However, Crypto was not a full-color product.
Ten years ago, in order to make ANY profit, we had to charge $18 for a 128-page book. If you subscribe to Pathfinder, you'll get the same bang for your buck - and it's been a whole decade.
If you have any interest in this product, subscribe. Once you get the first couple, and don't like them (I find that hard to believe) then feel free to cancel the subscription.
But don't think you're getting gouged. The prices are low... heck, they're as low as ours were in 1997.
I definitely received "Sticker Shock" when I saw the price of Pathfinder. That being said, I don't believe it's overpriced considering what went into it. What we're all waiting for now is to see if our initial "Jebus, $20!?!" is overridden by just how kicking the material is.
Since I Dungeon and Dragon will be gone from my monthly budget that gives me the money to buy Pathfinder.
It helps that Wizards don't seem to be publishing anything that I really care to buy anymore. And thus my wallet finds its requisite earth moneys for a fun new adventure path, campaign setting and bestiary.
i'm with the group that says this isn't a big price to pay. most gamers i know would happily pay 20 or 30 bucks (or more) a month for quality product. it's going to be easy for me now since i don't have to pay WOTC any more. for the past 3 years, dungeon has given me more content and material for my campaign than all the new splatbooks, monster manuals, and environment guides put together. i think there are a lot of folks who gladly pay and support paizo now. besides, i make a hell of a lot less than 100k, and i'm not complaining. just drink a few less latte's and you'll do fine. :)
just drink a few less latte's and you'll do fine.
Now that's just silly. Go without coffee? You must be joking!
Okay, now divide that by two because both Dragon and Dungeon come in at about 96 pages, as will Pathfinder. So you're still getting half the content, ads or no ads, at more cost.I will here compare cover prices. Not exact I know.
Pathfinder cover price 19.99 x 12 = 239.88
Dragon and Dungeon (7.99 x 2) x 12 = 191.76
Wait, I'm confused. Aren't you getting about the same amount of content (no ads 100 pages vs. ads 200 pages = the same thing right?).
Also, these are bound books not magazines. And free pdfs. It is more pricey, but there's some goody-good trimmings.
Also, those worried about there being only one adventure in each mag, there is something to consider:
The Pathfinder adventures are HUGE. And, I've been discussing privately with Pett how easily any one issue's adventure could be run as a stand alone. Also, there are so many little mini-quests involved in each Pathfinder installment that could very very easily be adapted to a smaller self-contained adventure. I'm not just making this up I promise. I looked long and hard at what I've got for Hook Mountain after reading everyone's concerns about having only one adventure per mag, and I realized these adventures are varied in their action, venue, opposition and even could be quardened off into their own mini-plots with barely any fuss. Just something to consider.
YOU're talking to Prett, now???
What's next? Drinking tea and eating crumbcakes at 4?
"Ohhhhh... What a world! What a world!"
YOU're talking to Prett, now???
What's next? Drinking tea and eating crumbcakes at 4?
"Ohhhhh... What a world! What a world!"
LOL!
Usually I just punch him in the groinal region, but I've actually deigned to speak to him a few times given the developments of the past few days.
Crumbcakes...mmmmmmm. :-)
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I'll give it a looksee; I'm definitely picking up the first issue, and I assume it won't suck; it'll be great bang for the buck.
I was paying $8 for Dungeon and Dragon each every month, so I'm not that hurt by $20 cover price; just knowing what Paizo has historically delivered I really don't think I'll be getting ripped off.
I don't know what to think just yet, I am leaning towards trying it out but feel a little disapointed by what I've read so far. At least the art is good.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Uhm, maybe i am mistaken, but AFAIK its about the same size as both dragon (48 pages) and dungeon (same nr). Keep in mind each page is printed on two sides ;)
So, now for the kicker:
Randomly selected dungeon (#126 to be exact):
12 Full Page Adds
3 Half-Page adds
1 Add sidebar
1 Page Editorial
2 Pages Letters to the Editor
==
16.75 Pages with no adventure content
Lets be conserative, and say that 80 printed pages have useful content, which makes a 40 page magazine. Lets say pathfinder has 6 printed pages of index, self-promotion, ..., which makes a 90 page magazine.
Now, calculating dungeons price per page gives us about 20 cents per page of game content. Pathfinder clocks in at roughly 21 cents per page of game content. I am willing to shelf of another cent per page for good binding, better paper, ...
Are you? :)
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So you're still getting half the content, ads or no ads, at more cost.
Ok! Think on this, have you ever used 100% of the content of your Dragon and Dungeon mags. I know I never did.
Take issue 354 of Dragon for example: Core beliefs heironeous, return of modrons, ancient pcs, ecology of the kopru, savage tidings, volo's guide, dragonmarks and class acts. Will you ever come close to using all of that?
And Dungeon, 12 low-level, 12 mid-level and 12 high-level adventures a year, plus other material.
Hell, what percentage of usage to you get from your 35$ hardcover WotC supplements?
If your running the Pathfinder AP you'll use close to 100% of the pathfinder content. The only problem I can forcast, for myself anyways, is I'll never be able to run two APs a year, but then half of the content from the books I don't run is still relevent. Also, I was never able to run the 36 adventures from Dungeon but was still a subscriber. Let's face it their just plain fun to read.
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Dungeon carries three adventures per issue. As glad as I am that there's going to be another adventure path starting as soon as Savage Tide ends, is Rise of the Runelords the ONLY adventure Pathfinder is going to offer? Is more content going to translate into more adventures? If not, it's going to be hard to justify spending twice the amount for a third of the actual content I've come to count on.
I'm not a Dragon reader, but Dungeon has been the best resource for my game I could have ever asked for. Will Pathfinder give me twice the adventure content, or will it only be one adventure with twice the baggage?
As Nick stated previously (and Pett in another thread), the adventures in each Pathfinder are BIG! They've both stated that they could easily be broken down into multiple smaller adventures. In addition, there will be "Backdrop" style articles detailing cities and other locations, new monsters, Dragon-esque material similar to the Woormfood/Savage Tidings, Core Beliefs/Demonomicon, and Ecologies articles, and probably other stuff crammed in as well.
Do keep in mind--Pathfinder is not a magazine, it's a book the same size as the old Sword and Fist/Tome and Blood books. From the FAQ: "Pathfinder is a 96-page, perfect-bound, full-color softcover Adventure Path book printed on high-quality paper that releases in monthly volumes. Each volume contains an in-depth Adventure Path scenario, stats for about a half-dozen new monsters, and several support articles meant to give Game Masters additional material to expand their campaign. Because Pathfinder uses the Open Game License, it is 100% compatible with the world's most popular roleplaying game. We currently plan to release Adventure Paths in six-volume arcs, meaning each year of Pathfinder will include two complete Adventure Paths. The first Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rise of the Runelords, will comprise the first six volumes of Pathfinder. A new Adventure Path will begin in Pathfinder #7."
I also can't help but wonder if Paizo will compile Pathfinder adventure paths after the fact in the same way they did with Shackled City. If they do, where's the benefit of spending a couple of hundred over the course of a year if I can wait and buy the main draw for sixty?
They've been asked if they planned to release hardcover compilations of the adventure paths later. See this thread.
Now that's just silly. Go without coffee? You must be joking!
Bah! Coffee is for the uncouth. Tea, on the other hand, is the beverage of civilisation.
I just want to tell everyone that Pathfinder is NOT a magazine. Paizo will not be publishing magazines at all (at least until they are perhaps allowed to or they are ready to) in the forseeable future. So let's just get magazines out of our collective vocabulary and stopping thinking of spending $20 for something that many people are thinking is just a combined Dungeon and Dragon MAGAZINE. Not a magazine.
Next, while Paizo has attempted to give you all a really good description of what the content is going to be, you have to remember that that won't see print for a few months and they are still open to suggestions for what is going to be filling those pages.
Right now Paizo has already said that they will have the following in Pathfinder.
• Adventures (This is one BIG meaty adventure in each issue. Each one will be adaptable to be run as a stand alone if you don’t want to run it as a series. And the authors are all doing their best to provide all kinds of opportunities for you to cut ‘em up into chunks to feed to your players so that you can simply run part(s) of it if you don’t want to run the whole thing.)
• New Monsters (This was started months ago as the Wandering Monster section in Dungeon and the Creature Catalog in Dragon. Only now, new monsters appearing in the adventure will have more expansive treatment and there may also be some that are only marginally related to the adventure (most likely linked to the setting itself) for you to use as well.
• Backdrop Articles (The setting the Rise of the Runelords AP takes place in will be fully detailed in each issue. So, you’re getting new places to set you own adventures in and all kinds of interesting hooks and NPCs to use to go well outside of the lines or run your own campaigns in Varisia.)
• New Campaign World (Paizo is offering a new campaign setting that both its GameMastery modules and the Rise of the Runelords will take place in. You’re getting this in addition to some whopping big adventures.)
• Beautiful Illustrations and Cartography (This is pretty much going to be the highest quality artwork and maps you can find these days, people. If you haven’t seen some of the sample pics, check this out from Wayne Reynolds. WAR will be doing the artwork for the first 12 issues. That alone is worth consideration since his stuff is absolutely stunning and evocative.)
• A product from a publisher you know you can trust (Let’s not forget, people, what Erik, James, and Lisa did for our two favorite magazines. These guys brought them up to the highest level of quality they have ever enjoyed. EVER. It’s silly to think that they won’t do just as well and most likely even better with these new products that they have the freedom to build as they see fit.)
Here's one last thing to consider.
• Paizo is listening.
Nearly everyone that has frequented these boards at some time or another has been able to speak directly with the Publisher or CEO or Editor-in-Chief, not to mention the rest of the staff to ask questions, complain or just acknowledge something you liked. They will continue to do this and are really listening to what you have to say and what you want out of a product. Trust them. You’re going to be pleased and after the first issues are out, will consider the money you spent the easiest dough you shelled out for a product ever.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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You make $100K and you're fretting over a 20 spot??? Get with it man! I make 2/5's of what you do and $20 a month is a drop in the bucket for something that will provide myself and my 9 gamers hours and hours of entertainment!
Besides other than the Rules Compendium there's nothing on the horizon from Wizards I'm excited at all to buy. More $$$ for Paizo and Pathfinder!
--happy dancing little Vrock
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Here's one last thing to consider.
• Paizo is listening.
Nearly everyone that has frequented these boards at some time or another has been able to speak directly with the Publisher or CEO or Editor-in-Chief, not to mention the rest of the staff to ask questions, complain or just acknowledge something you liked. They will continue to do this and are really listening to what you have to say and what you want out of a product. Trust them. You’re going to be pleased and after the first issues are out, will consider the money you spent the easiest dough you shelled out for a product ever.
The first time that James Jacobs responded to one of my posts I felt so special, especially after trying desperately to get heard over at WOTC's boards (3 yrs ago). Now it is just commonplace that JJ, Lisa, Gary, or any number of others chime in on a thread to drop a bit of wisdom or an inside glance at a situation. One that sticks out is some of the threads where they have contributed with ideas on how to modify certain aspects of adventures in the magazines, in particular they have been consistantly there offering advice for the Savage Tide's various adventures. I love this crew and if I ever meet them I will treat them all to a tankard or two. They deserve nothing less than the utmost respect. A finer crew would be real hard to find.
FH
Here's one last thing to consider.
• Paizo is listening.
Nearly everyone that has frequented these boards at some time or another has been able to speak directly with the Publisher or CEO or Editor-in-Chief, not to mention the rest of the staff to ask questions, complain or just acknowledge something you liked. They will continue to do this and are really listening to what you have to say and what you want out of a product. Trust them. You’re going to be pleased and after the first issues are out, will consider the money you spent the easiest dough you shelled out for a product ever.
The first time that James Jacobs responded to one of my posts I felt so special, especially after trying desperately to get heard over at WOTC's boards (3 yrs ago). Now it is just commonplace that JJ, Lisa, Gary, or any number of others chime in on a thread to drop a bit of wisdom or an inside glance at a situation. One that sticks out is some of the threads where they have contributed with ideas on how to modify certain aspects of adventures in the magazines, in particular they have been consistantly there offering advice for the Savage Tide's various adventures. I love this crew and if I ever meet them I will treat them all to a tankard or two. They deserve nothing less than the utmost respect. A finer crew would be real hard to find.
FH
Agreed. My biggest reason for subscribing to Pathfinder is because of the fun I have on these boards with Paizo's staff, contributors and fans. You all are the coolest people on the internets.
I just want to tell everyone that Pathfinder is NOT a magazine. So let's just get magazines out of our collective vocabulary {snip}
Fair enough, but what would they like it to be called? A journal? Supplemant? Best Thing EVAR?
I did read that Pathfinder is the "premier outlet for your next fantasy roleplaying campaign," but I'm not sure we're supposed to go around and call it an 'outlet.'
Tell us what it is and we'll call it that. :)
Steve G.
Project Manager, AvatarArt
Creative Director
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Tell us what it is and we'll call it that. :)
Steve G.
Project Manager, AvatarArt
It's a book series. Which can be shortened, I guess, to books.
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WOW
Everyone seems to be missing the fact that those who subscribe get a free "$13.95" PDF Version of the Book, making the actual Hard print copy just $6.00 a copy.
Ok so you don't want a Hardcopy or don't want to pay $19.95 per book
just save $6.00 and spend the money for a PDF Version.
This is a complete digital version of the Magazine not just the "fluff" that has been in the free Versions of Dungeon.
COMPLETE..repeat that again for those that Missed it the first Time
COMPLETE.
I love the fact that everything is gonna be easily used in NONSTANDARD Settings.
For the first time in Many years, I think this is something that everyone can use, not just certain people running "official World settings", over and over. Pick and Choose.
People have been asking for Digital Versions of Stuff for along time, Maybe if sells show that Digital Items are a sustainable source of Income, others will follow suit. hint..hint..WOTC.
AND NO I DON"T MEAN ONLINE ACCESS OR AVAILABILITY ONLY
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Hey, I like Paizo alot, but this still looks like a big mistake.
No one ever asked for this "gee wiz, it's a 'book' format." Pathfinder could have been made the same way Dungeon and Dragon are being made. Average issues are about 100 pages and specials are 130-150 pages. That binding is sufficient for Pathfinder.
Even though the customer will likely be able to get less mileage out of each issue, though I hope I'll have to eat those particular words, People will stop paying $14 a month. For that, I want to peruse every issue in the store before I buy it.
But, you're right, Paizo has listened in the past and will continue to do so. Certainly, when, after the first 6 come out and a great many people decide to drop their month-to-month contract because of financial vs value cost, Paizo will hopefully get off this "gee wiz, it's a book" kick and get back to something more affordable.
-W. E. Ray
I'm playing in Age of Worms, DMing Savage Tide, playing in my wife's homebrew campaign, and I run a pick-up homebrew Dungeon Delvers game when not enough people make it for normal games.
Trust me, over here at least there is market for two APs a year.
As Monte Cook pointed out, if they could have put out a magazine they would have. There must be something in the contract like a non-compete. Pathfinder bears the distinction of not being a magazine.
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The only concern I have is not price - it is whether there is a market for 2 APs a year.
That's a valid concern. For those lucky sods that get to do a lot of gaming (which I, unfortunately, am not one--c'mon lotto!), they may actually be able to run two APs in a single year.
For the rest of us, however, each book in the Pathfinder series is supposed to be used fairly easily as a stand-alone adventure, and not required to be run as part of the rest of the AP. Additionally, the writers suggest that they are looking to make the adventures in each book easy to hack up into smaller adventures. So, it seems there is the distinct possibility that we'll be able chop and/or adapt the adventures (and other miscellaneous content) to use without following the AP.
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As Monte Cook pointed out, if they could have put out a magazine they would have. There must be something in the contract like a non-compete. Pathfinder bears the distinction of not being a magazine.
Yeah, and then there Mr. Greer's comment in this thread:
Paizo will not be publishing magazines at all (at least until they are perhaps allowed to or they are ready to) in the forseeable future.
Those italics weren't lost on me. ;)
Yeah, and then there Mr. Greer's comment in this thread:Paizo will not be publishing magazines at all (at least until they are perhaps allowed to or they are ready to) in the forseeable future.Those italics weren't lost on me. ;)
I noticed that as well. If Paizo does ever put out another D&D mag, or two, or three... I am so there.
For me price is a minor issue. Having decided to quite warhammer recently, as well as smoking, I will be having quite a bit of extra spending cash over the next few paychecks. The only thing I'm concerned about at all is continuation. Over the years I've seen a lot of realy good ideas fall apart because the people in charge couldn't keep up with their own ambition. Let me make it clear though that I have no lack of faith in the Paizo crew, as they have done nothing but impress me to the point of having to pick my jaw up off the floor time after time. I believe if anyone can do this, they can. Not only do they have a stable of the best freelance writers in the industry, but near as I can tell, just about everyone who works at paizo is an amazing writer as well.
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Chief Technical Officer
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We're taking this opportunity to move away from the magazine business because it's just plain terrible to be in. It's one thing to continue publishing an already successful magazine with awesome name recognition, great circulation, and advertisers lined up to buy pages, but it's quite another to launch a new magazine.
We tried it twice, just a few years ago, with two very different magazines: Undefeated and Amazing Stories. And what we learned from both was that we'd have needed to dig a seven-digit hole in our bank account before we'd start seeing a decent return on them.
Many have suggested we should just replace Dragon with a clone, but it just doesn't work that way. "Manny's Cigar and Magazine Depot" carries Dragon because he's sold Dragon for decades. He's never heard of this new "Flagon magazine" but he's pretty sure he's never sold a copy. Should he buy it? Well, how much does it sell? Zero copies? Manny can't afford the risk right now. Come back when it sells tens of thousands per month. (Chicken, meet egg.)
And the big guys? You have to buy your spot on those stands. And you have to ship them more copies than they can possibly sell, and what they don't sell, they destroy, and you don't get paid for. If you start to sell more copies, they order more, so they can have some to destroy. They adjust their buying levels to ensure thay they're destroying more than they're selling—because if they don't have too many, they can't sell more.
And when you do sell copies, that money goes into what the magazine distribution business calls a "reserve against returns," which is held by our circulation company. Stores have the better part of a year to report their unsold issues, for which they get their money back, so until that time is up, the circulation people keep most of the money. (Actually, they parcel it out based on historical percentages, so it trickles in throughout the year, but the point is, you don't really know how much you've made until the issue has been off the stands for a year. And you don't get to hold the cash in the meantime.)
And then there's advertisers. Sure, within our hobby, it might be easy to find folks who'll give us a chance, but those video game companies, for example—they want to see circulation numbers. We might get them to pony up if we tell them that we reach tens of thousands of readers, but a circulation of "zero right now, but we're hopeful for the future" isn't going to get their attention.
But in order to keep the cover price down, you need to have that advertising, and you need those big circulation numbers. It's just not a simple as "print Pathfinder on magazine stock, and make it $8." Can't be done.
If you want more about how bad the magazine business is, search our boards for posts from me that include the words magazine, business, and terrible. It's *so* much worse than anyone outside it would ever imagine.
We'll miss publishing Dragon and Dungeon, but we won't miss publishing magazines.
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...what they don't sell, they destroy, and you don't get paid for...Stores have the better part of a year to report their unsold issues, for which they get their money back...
Wow...I wonder how many "destroyed" back issues I've bought from hobby shops over the years...at full original cover price...and what about the "rare" ten-year old+ issues I've bought for double or triple the original cover price...?
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If price is an issue, then just buy the first one. From what has been said, each issue can serve as a stand alone adventure if desired, and presumably that is doubly so for the first issue in an adventure path.
See if you like it, see if its worth the money, see if you can find a place for it in your gaming budget.
Personally, I'm paying for Pathfinder 1 by cancelling my pre-order of Complete Champion. I'm supporting Paizo and registering a tiny protest against WotC at the same time.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Wow...I wonder how many "destroyed" back issues I've bought from hobby shops over the years...at full original cover price...and what about the "rare" ten-year old+ issues I've bought for double or triple the original cover price...?
The hobby channel is a different story—they purchase their issues through hobby distributors, not newsstand distributors. As such, they're non-returnable, and are paid in full almost immediately. That's where much of the profit for Dragon and Dungeon comes from (though the circulation numbers for just that segment of the market are still way too low to generate sufficient advertising revenue if taken on their own).
I'm really going to miss Dungeon and Dragon. I've been reading them since issue 1 and issue 16 respectively. I don't think that anyone has mentioned it so far, but I'm going to especially miss the cartoons.
I'm looking forward to Pathfinder because my favorite adventures by far in Dungeon are the campaign arcs, and it's going to be very cool to see the new world unfolding the way that Greyhawk did back in the day.
People have made some excellent points on both sides. Pathfinder sounds like a good value in relation to similar format adventure books put out by WOTC. But on the other hand, I don't buy one of those each month.
I've got enough subscription credit for nine issues of Pathfinder. If its as great as I'm hoping it will be, I'll work very hard to find the money for the subscription (and I want some Game Mastery modules set in the same world). And trust me, as a school teacher, my gaming budget is not a big one. I think we'll all just have to wait and see when the first volumes start arriving.
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Wow...I wonder how many "destroyed" back issues I've bought from hobby shops over the years...at full original cover price...and what about the "rare" ten-year old+ issues I've bought for double or triple the original cover price...?
Hobby shops are different than newstands and 'brand stores' like borders or barnes and noble, Hobby shops only get to return extra copies maybe once every 6 months (if you ever bought a magazine without a cover then that is one that was 'destroyed' and is therefore illegal to sell (as they have to send back the covers as proof of destruction of the product)
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To be honest, I suspect I'd happily pay 50% more than Pathfinder is priced at, if it fills even half my expectations.
Think of it this way: Pathfinder is a series of books containing linked adventures, and all the support you'd need to run them easily, done by people with a proven track record.
Those last two points are critical to me. I loved the idea behind the "environment" books Wotc put out (Frostburn, Stormwrack, et al), but they were really more than I needed. Unless I was running a campaign set in a stormy sea next to a frozen waste, that was more information than I needed.
But Pathfinder can tie the support and advice to the adventures that do form a whole campaign. Rather than buy half a dozen magazines full of adventures and rules and ideas and try to link themmyself, I can buy a book that already does that. If a Pathfinder series looks good to me, I know everything beyond the core rules I need to run it will be included. If a given series doesn;t look to match my needs, I can wait for the next one.
Since I already know Paizo does great work, the idea of buying a pre-combined set of rules and adventures in quality book format is very appealing to me.