I took a look a weapon design options and I came up with this:
Exotic=6dp
1-handed=2
Additional Dp=2dp
Total=10dp
4x Improved Damage(1d10) =4dp
Improved Critical Threat Range (19-20)=3dp
Weapon Feature (Reach)=1dp
Spring-Loaded=2dp
Total Cost=10dp
Result is:
Mechanical Extending Sword...Cost: 40gp
DMG(M)1d10/ Dmg(S)1d8........Critical x2
Weapon Group: Heavy Blade...Weight: 6lbs
Qualities: Reach and Spring-Loaded
Weapon Damage Type: Slashing
I thought about adding Fragile to get +1dp.
As well double weapon to nerf the off blade with Lesser Damage to gain another +1dp to buff the primary blade. Not sure if this part would work.
And I don't have a clue what Shield design would do to a weapon.
Shield bash to avoid the Improved Damage cost perhaps?
The weapon design tool isn't for players to design weapons. It's for GMs.
That is correct.
Yes it is.
No, it's really not. It's a tool to create new interesting weapons that a GM wants to add, not another system for players to mixmax. It's like the Race Builder. It's a tool for GMs, not for players.
Didn't see much of anything resembling a question or request, so here are my personal thoughts:
Sounds kind of silly to me. I can easily imagine a "folding spear" of sorts, but a 10-foot reach switchblade?
Spring-Loaded (2 DP): The weapon’s wielder can activate
or suspend its reach as a swift action. This quality can be
added only to one-handed or two-handed melee weapons
with the reach special feature.
Not sure where "switchblade" comes in.
Yes it is.No, it's really not. It's a tool to create new interesting weapons that a GM wants to add, not another system for players to mixmax. It's like the Race Builder. It's a tool for GMs, not for players.
And you're absolutely sure he is a player, and not a DM asking for advice? (Though he does seem like a player, if you ask me) Maybe he just wants thoughts on the weapon.
I like the idea, but definitely doesn't need to be a double weapon or fragile. Good as is.
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If you're a GM looking to use the rules to make a weapon, then first start by stating what weapon you're actually trying to make. Only make stats after you have an idea of what the weapon should look like.
If you're a player looking to abuse the system, then please just stop. Especially since I note the first thing you're trying to get is d10 damage dice & spring-loaded (exactly what a player of mine first thought), and you seem to be tossing around the idea of adding penalties explicitly so you can cram in more features.
Otherwise, you should probably start making a weapon's stats not just by looking at the design points - but also by comparing to existing weapons. For example, the only 1h weapon I know of which has reach is the whip. To make a sword long enough to strike at that distance while only wielding it with a single hand seems like it'd be unbalanced and unwieldy for the user, and as such I would strongly discourage doing so without very good reason.
At the most basic level I am look to create a Phalanx style weapon(s). Which means a One handed reach weapon. The spring loaded feature was an after thought. At Worst, I could always default to a small sized longspear with a -2 to attack rolls to have a one handed reach weapon.
Weapon creation rules or race creation rules is not a problem for a player to use. Just okay it with your DM.
It also helps if you're not being a cheese head and have a good reason for doing so.
ie: It's something really cool and not something that will ruin the game for everyone else.
At the most basic level I am look to create a Phalanx style weapon(s). Which means a One handed reach weapon. The spring loaded feature was an after thought. At Worst, I could always default to a small sized longspear with a -2 to attack rolls to have a one handed reach weapon.
Take the shield brace feat.
It allows you to wield a polearm while having a shield, no rules for creating weird weapons to try to convince your GM that it's ok.
Doru spear is also works.
Shield Brace does not remove the need to use two hands for a reach weapon.
Doru spear, from what I can find, has no reach, it is thrown weapon with a range of 20ft.
I am looking for a 1-handed reach weapon.
And knock it off with "Need to be GM" line. Been used to the bone and is irrelevant to my situation.
Ah missed the reach part. The only other thing I can think of is Titan Mauler Barbarian or a Phalanx Soldier Fighter. You would be able to use a two-handed weapon one handed with the Mauler and use a pole arm one handed when using a shield with the Soldier.
And just to be clear I was never one of the ones who said "DM only." That being said you could have worded that a bit better.
It's not like you can actually make a good weapon with the system so minmaxing isn't really an issue.
I was going to say this too.
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The weapon design tool isn't for players to design weapons. It's for GMs.
I'm the GM and reviewed those rules, looks like it's for players to me. It's so restrictive you can't even make a rapier. As GM I get to bend the rules and can make exotic weapons that use more points. If I were to use that GM the rules are largely useless.
With the weapon design build for weapon master handbook I could, *IN THEORY*, make the following:
Mechanical Extending Sword...Cost: 40gp
Type: One-Handed Melee.......PROFICIENCY: Exotic
DMG(M)1d10/ Dmg(S)1d8........Critical x2
Critical Threat Range: 19-20
Weapon Group: Heavy Blade...Weight: 6lbs
Qualities: Reach and Spring-Loaded
Weapon Damage Type: Slashing
Exotic=6dp
1-handed=2
Additional Dp=2dp
Total=10dp
4x Improved Damage(1d10) =4dp
Improved Critical Threat Range (19-20)=3dp
Weapon Feature (Reach)=1dp
Spring-Loaded=2dp
Total Cost=10dp
Please note the in THEORY part.
If there is a standard reach weapon I could use in one hand, feel free to point it out. The Whip is no good as it doesn't has the same threaten area like a normal reach weapon does.
The weapon design tool isn't for players to design weapons. It's for GMs.I'm the GM and reviewed those rules, looks like it's for players to me.
However, for those cases when new weapon statistics are truly needed, this section introduces rules for GMs to use as guidelines.
Emphasis mine. Also note that the theory build above amounts to basically, "bastard sword, but better."
---
Question: Is there another reason you're trying to have a reach weapon in one hand other than acting as a phalanx? Because the shield brace feat appears to do what you initially wanted. As does the Phalanx Soldier archetype for the fighter which lets you wield any polearm/spear as a one-handed weapon starting at 3rd level (when wielding a shield).
If you really wanted to custom-make something like the dory spear for a phalanx - I'd give the following suggestions:
Simple or Martial Weapon: A phalanx doesn't want to waste time training soldiers on how to use an exotic weapon. They want an easy-to-use and reliable weapon so they can spend their time training coordination.
Damage Dice: A longspear is a d8 weapon, so I'd normally have that as the upper limit on damage for your custom spear. However, considering that you're trying to add a property that isn't normally on one-handed weapons (reach), I'd personally find it reasonable to drop that down to a max of a d6 damage dice as compensation.
A build I'm working on involves keeping my off hand free to use the Shield Gauntlet style feat chain. That means a single one handed weapon.
I would like to have reach to widen my threat area. Whenever something gets past the reach weapon, I'll use Gauntlet style attack for close combat.
I like the Simple or Martial Weapon line.
Phalanx Spear
Type: One-Handed Melee....PROFICIENCY: Martial
Dmg(M)1d8/ Dmg(S)1d6......Critical x2
Critical Threat Range: 19-20
Weapon Group: Polearms
Qualities: Reach
Weapon Damage Type: P or S
Martial=4dp
1-handed=2
Additional Dp=2dp
Total=8dp
3x Improved Damage(1d8)=3dp
Improved Critical Threat Range (19-20)=3dp
Weapon Feature (Reach)=1dp
Additional Damage Type =1dp
Total Cost= 8dp
That sums it up nicely.
With the right feats you can threaten with a whip.
Better, though I'll make a few more nitpicks:
Damage Type: The vast majority of spears only deal piercing damage, as they are designed as thrusting weapons. The head of a spear is not made to slash, and swinging a spear around as a slashing weapon is a great way to break the haft. This would be especially true for a spear made to be used as part of a phalanx, where you don't have room to swing a weapon without disrupting the formation or exposing yourself.
Crits: Spears in Pathfinder typically have a higher crit multiplier (x3) rather than a greater crit range (19-20), so I'd recommend swapping that out for consistency.
Additional DP: While maxing this out makes the "best" weapon for a PC with basically no drawback (because the gp increase isn't noticeable past 1st level), it's not great design & would be a nightmare for anyone expecting to mass produce the weapon for organized troops (as that small gp increase starts to add up). So I'd avoid using this entirely if only for appropriate theming.
Comparison: While this may seem like something I'm reiterating - but the weapon is basically a one-handed longspear as a martial weapon rather than a simple weapon - making it a straight upgrade. It's up to your group to decide if the change in weapon proficiency is equivalent to said upgrade or not - as I know I've seen decent arguments on both sides.
So personally, if I was to allow said spear in my own games, I'd probably go with:
Budget: 6DP [Martial Weapon (4) + One-Handed weapon (2)]
One-handed Martial Weapon
Damage: 1d6 (M) 1d4 (S) Crit x3 (Piercing); reach
Total DP: 6 [2x improved dmg (2pts) + improved crit multiplyer (3pts) + weapon feature, reach (1pt)]
Charon's comments seem reasonable and well-balanced to me. It allows for a weapon that fits OP's needs, without being game-breaking either in terms of the game mechanics, or verisimilitude.
As something of an aside about using the weapon creation rules and their capacity for abuse, I played with someone who was allowed to use those rules to create a unique weapon. As I recall, he ended up creating a very low damage weapon, with both a high crit range and modifier, and which was a light weapon.
The player then proceeded to make a character that used the Focused Weapon feature from Advanced Weapon Training (which gave scaling weapon damage akin to what the Warpriest gets), and dual-wielded these abominations.
As I think about it, the same player had also previously created a large throwing weapon which did 2d6 base damage (kinda like the equivalent of a massive starknife), and then proceeded to combine that with the Startoss Style and Ricochet Toss feats (and was also getting 1.5 x STR on damage I think, for throwing it two-handed). I can't recall the details on that one now, but it all seemed broken as heck.
So I guess my point is, if some wants to munchkin the weapon creation rules, they can probably find a way.
Which is why the DM is the final arbitrator after a weapon is created.
Also, it's not like there aren't actual weapons in the game that make little sense.
Bardiche has reach while a Halberd does not.
I looked more into the shield brace feat Claxon mention.
I found I can ditch making my own weapon Idea by having a quickdraw shield (already have quickdraw and shield focus feats) with weapon training enchantment with shield brace.
Now the question is there any reason for me to keep Shield gauntlet style feats any more?
Quickdraw shield and shield brace is the better way to go by far and I save 3 feats.
Thank you all for your help. :)
Especially you Claxon, for making me think outside the box without breaking the rules.
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Especially you Claxon, for making me think outside the box without breaking the rules.
No problem. Glad I could help.
I find it usually best to try to make things work without having to "custom create" things because it can definitely feel unbalanced to other people/players.
I was going to explain why using Shield Gauntlet Style was less effective, but I think you've discovered this for yourself so I wont go into it.
Good luck.
Woaw, woaw, woaw, hold on here...
Since when can't a player make his own weapons using the Craft skill? Have him list out the features for his weapon, use the cost as the time needed and just increase the Craft DC to show the complexity.
You mean to tell me that a dwarf PC can't craft his own weapons as part of his blacksmithing business? Yeah, sure...
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They're not talking about the craft skill for the character to craft a known weapon. They're talking about using the system for the player to design a new weapon to be introduced into the game.
Yeah, you can absolutely craft any existing weapon in the book.
Where it gets dicey is custom designing weapons that don't currently exist.
Such as one-handed reach weapons, with the exception of the whip (and maybe one other thing I'm forgetting) there aren't one handed reach weapons. It's a design paradigm, that as a player and GM I don't really want to see broken.
It does make sense that a master weaponsmith would be able to "invent" some new and interesting weapon. But it'd be up to the DM to decide the abilities of that weapon based on what the character says they are intending.
Charon's comments seem reasonable and well-balanced to me. It allows for a weapon that fits OP's needs, without being game-breaking either in terms of the game mechanics, or verisimilitude.
As something of an aside about using the weapon creation rules and their capacity for abuse, I played with someone who was allowed to use those rules to create a unique weapon. As I recall, he ended up creating a very low damage weapon, with both a high crit range and modifier, and which was a light weapon.
The player then proceeded to make a character that used the Focused Weapon feature from Advanced Weapon Training (which gave scaling weapon damage akin to what the Warpriest gets), and dual-wielded these abominations.
As I think about it, the same player had also previously created a large throwing weapon which did 2d6 base damage (kinda like the equivalent of a massive starknife), and then proceeded to combine that with the Startoss Style and Ricochet Toss feats (and was also getting 1.5 x STR on damage I think, for throwing it two-handed). I can't recall the details on that one now, but it all seemed broken as heck.
So I guess my point is, if some wants to munchkin the weapon creation rules, they can probably find a way.
Considering the weapons you are describing are impossible to make or use in the way you state, that illustrates how bad the system is. You cant make a light weapon with any sort of double crit improvement. The max DP a light weapon can have is 7 for an exotic with the single allowed cost increase, and it take 9 minimum for 2 crit increases. So a kukri is basically strictly superior to anything you can make.
Startoss style doesn't work with two-handed weapons, and it would take a full-round action to make a single attack with one. The simple thing is that the thing that makes weapons good is having either a 19-20/x3 or 18-20/x2 crit range, and the costs of those in the system are so high that it is literally almost all you can put on the...
Fair enough. I didn't have access to the character sheet, so I'm not sure exactly what the specifications were. It is also possible that the DM felt the same as you, and allowed for some added DP within the rules (or perhaps allowed Additional DP to be taken x2 for a one-handed light weapon or something.)
As for the massive thrown weapon, I'm not sure if that was weapon creation rules or something the DM okay'ed separately, so I won't weigh-in on that.