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I hope there will be new Kaiju but I doubt it since James Jacobs said he didn't want the rest stated up in a bestiary.
I hope there will be around 10-12 0HD races in this one.
I hope there will be at least one rabbit based monster with a decent CR rating.
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SQQQQQUUUEEEE!!!!
Yeah I'm squeeing slightly for Dispater too. :) ;)
Mr. Jacobs has said we are getting 8 arch devils, 4 horsemen, ?# empyreal lords, and who knows what else in the demi-god level of power.
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"troops of goblins"
Please tell me that there's a troop template :D
A troop template isn't really appropriate, any more than a swarm template is.
"Troop" is a monster subtype, like swarm. Troops work best when, like swarms, they're hand-built as monsters.
I'm hoping to include some advice and tips in the book on how to build your own troops though!
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A quick note on the Horsemen...
I get that some of the choices we make for monsters along these lines won't appeal to some gamers, but that's the great thing about Tabletop RPGs; you can keep what you want and change the rest! So if you like how we statted up, say, the Horsemen of War and Death and Famine, but want to swap out Pestilence for Conquest (or whatever) you can use our design as an inspirational starting point and go from there.
Regardless of that choice, WE had to choose something, and went with our preferences. In the case of the Horsemen, we made that decision nearly 10 years ago during the early production of Curse of the Crimson Throne, and have supported that decision across all lines ever since, so changing it for Bestiary 6 never even crossed my mind.
In ANY event... let's get this thread back to generalized Bestiary 6 talk! The horsemen are a fascinating subject of their own and deserve their own thread. :-D
I hope there will be new Kaiju but I doubt it since James Jacobs said he didn't want the rest stated up in a bestiary.Let's just say James can change his mind, particularly when he's the one who's finally actually IN CHARGE of a bestiary. :-P
Does this mean less normal (so not unique krampus) myth/folklore/cryptid monsters?
And now we know there will be kaiju again, the horsemen are gonna fade away again, all talk will be about the big things anyway...
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Planes dragons?! Was thinking those were going to be next, and I just noticed in the descrip. While I think there's a bit of much true dragons, I did love the the tartarian and pyroclastc dragons from 3.5's Draconomicon. PF uses less planes, so might we get all of them?
Abbaddon and nirvana would be interesting to see!
Never saw the point of Monkey Goblins, why not just work out an alternate racial ability that gave em a climb speed? "No, these goblins gots tails and they're really monkeylike!" Seems like a waste of type space.
A quick note on the Horsemen...
** spoiler omitted **In ANY event... let's get this thread back to generalized Bestiary 6 talk! The horsemen are a fascinating subject of their own and deserve their own thread. :-D
Yeah apologies there again -- I was never trying to say Paizo made a bad choice, and it certainly is the most common version of the characters in mainstream etc.
I only ever chimed in, and derailed things a bit, because Nightterror saw Conquest as War as being essentially the same, I wanted to dissuade them of that opinion.
I'm just happy that, it seems, like B6 will include a bunch of that "upper echelon" of CR creatures that, even if they don't specifically use Mythic rules (I bet many will), they at least give proper stats for it.
I don't recall which of the Paizoins (however you spell it) expressed it, but they said they weren't stat'ing gods (which I agreed with) because "if it has stats, you can kill it"
But its awesome to have stats for things you COULD make the ultimate evil, like the Horsemen!
Abbadon! It's even in Golarion lore that there are previous, even "unspecific" Horsemen -- meaning they very much can be toppled!
How cool is that!
I hope there will be new Kaiju but I doubt it since James Jacobs said he didn't want the rest stated up in a bestiary.Let's just say James can change his mind, particularly when he's the one who's finally actually IN CHARGE of a bestiary. :-P
I'd be down for more Kaiju! Even if they don't have room for "build your own Kaiju" rules, another few Kaiju would give GMs (and 3PPers) some more examples to dismantle and compare their own designs against.
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Does this mean less normal (so not unique krampus) myth/folklore/cryptid monsters?I hope there will be new Kaiju but I doubt it since James Jacobs said he didn't want the rest stated up in a bestiary.Let's just say James can change his mind, particularly when he's the one who's finally actually IN CHARGE of a bestiary. :-P
Doesn't mean that at all. In fact, I'm one of the reasons Pathfinder DOES focus so much on myth/folklore/and ESPECIALLY Cryptid monsters.
"troops of goblins"
Please tell me that there's a troop template :D
A troop template isn't really appropriate, any more than a swarm template is.
"Troop" is a monster subtype, like swarm. Troops work best when, like swarms, they're hand-built as monsters.
I'm hoping to include some advice and tips in the book on how to build your own troops though!
Troops of rougarou for instance.
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And now we know there will be kaiju again, the horsemen are gonna fade away again, all talk will be about the big things anyway...*shrugs*
Some of us are Size Queens.
I thought you were Majestrix sized...
Can someone remind me who/what are the 8 arch devils again?
Glad to hear we will be getting some new Kaiju.
I hope there will a be a lot of fey in this one.
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Can someone remind me who/what are the 8 arch devils again?
In order, they are: Barbatos, Dispater, Mammon, Belial, Geryon, Moloch, Baalzebul, and Mephistopheles.
Six are definitely devils, albeit of wildly varying forms. Jury's out on Geryon and Barbatos, but I'm guessing they'll have the subtype. ^_^
Dammit! I got ninja'ed. :p Oh well.
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I studied the archdevils pretty thoroughly. Of course, I consider myself a expert on most LE outsiders. ^_^What about CE Outsiders? :3
That's MY expertise Rysky. :)
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I studied the archdevils pretty thoroughly. Of course, I consider myself a expert on most LE outsiders. ^_^What about CE Outsiders? :3
About the same as anything else in the system. I know of the various types of demon and which sin creates them, and I know the story behind demodands and the various types thereof. And I know plenty about their stats and mechanics.
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Qlippoth, however... those, I know plenty about. ^_^
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About the same as anything else in the system. I know of the various types of demon and which sin creates them, and I know the story behind demodands and the various types thereof. And I know plenty about their stats and mechanics.I studied the archdevils pretty thoroughly. Of course, I consider myself a expert on most LE outsiders. ^_^What about CE Outsiders? :3
Okies :3
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"troops of goblins"
Please tell me that there's a troop template :D
A troop template isn't really appropriate, any more than a swarm template is.
"Troop" is a monster subtype, like swarm. Troops work best when, like swarms, they're hand-built as monsters.
I'm hoping to include some advice and tips in the book on how to build your own troops though!
That would be greatly appreciated. On many occasions, you need soldier squadrons, angry mobs and... zombie hordes *runs XD *
There are a lot of times when it's just easier to pick a troop instead of 12, 15 or 20 individual soldiers. Furthermore, since a troop has a higher CR, your single goblin can be turned into a menace if he calls his pals to gang up on you. Finally, it would be a great way to make low-level creatures a threat to high-level characters.
They'll probably laugh a lot less when "trying" to beat an entire army on their own... and will possibly think twice before trying to play it like Dynasty Warriors XD
On a sidenote, is it really that complex to make a template that grants the troop or the swarm subtype? What's actually bothering you guys from make it possible to turn a ratling into a swarm or a human soldier into a troop?
Can someone remind me who/what are the 8 arch devils again?In order, they are: Barbatos, Dispater, Mammon, Belial, Geryon, Moloch, Baalzebul, and Mephistopheles.
Six are definitely devils, albeit of wildly varying forms. Jury's out on Geryon and Barbatos, but I'm guessing they'll have the subtype. ^_^
Jury shouldn't be out. (Pathfinder) Geryon was originally an asura rana. I suspect that you are correct that they will all have the devil subtype though.
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On a sidenote, is it really that complex to make a template that grants the troop or the swarm subtype? What's actually bothering you guys from make it possible to turn a ratling into a swarm or a human soldier into a troop?
It's pretty complex, yes, but it also opens the door to a design philosophy that I'm not a fan of. For the same reason we don't have a "dire animal" template or a "kaiju" template. A troop, a swarm, or a dire animal, or a kaiju is ALWAYS more interesting when it's hand-crafted as its own thing and not merely a template.
There's nothing bothering me about turning a ratling into a swarm or a human soldier into a troop—it just is more appetizing and interesting to build a ratling swarm or a soldier troop as a monster and not as a template.
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Jury shouldn't be out. (Pathfinder) Geryon was originally an asura rana. I suspect that you are correct that they will all have the devil subtype though.Can someone remind me who/what are the 8 arch devils again?In order, they are: Barbatos, Dispater, Mammon, Belial, Geryon, Moloch, Baalzebul, and Mephistopheles.
Six are definitely devils, albeit of wildly varying forms. Jury's out on Geryon and Barbatos, but I'm guessing they'll have the subtype. ^_^
Just as all demon lords are demons, all archdevils are devils.
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I am happy to finally see a canine based playable race. I hope they are more wolf like then dog though.
Just as all demon lords are demons, all archdevils are devils.
That's just the kind of thing an archdevil would WANT us to think!
On a sidenote, is it really that complex to make a template that grants the troop or the swarm subtype? What's actually bothering you guys from make it possible to turn a ratling into a swarm or a human soldier into a troop?It's pretty complex, yes, but it also opens the door to a design philosophy that I'm not a fan of. For the same reason we don't have a "dire animal" template or a "kaiju" template. A troop, a swarm, or a dire animal, or a kaiju is ALWAYS more interesting when it's hand-crafted as its own thing and not merely a template.
There's nothing bothering me about turning a ratling into a swarm or a human soldier into a troop—it just is more appetizing and interesting to build a ratling swarm or a soldier troop as a monster and not as a template.
Really... ? I didn't expect troops to be complex to assemble :P
BTW, I meant "bothering" as in "bugging you", "blocking you" or "stopping you", not about it being unnerving to you ;)
Jury shouldn't be out. (Pathfinder) Geryon was originally an asura rana. I suspect that you are correct that they will all have the devil subtype though.Can someone remind me who/what are the 8 arch devils again?In order, they are: Barbatos, Dispater, Mammon, Belial, Geryon, Moloch, Baalzebul, and Mephistopheles.
Six are definitely devils, albeit of wildly varying forms. Jury's out on Geryon and Barbatos, but I'm guessing they'll have the subtype. ^_^
Geryon was given a legion of devils to eat for reasons other than he was feeling peckish.
You can have multiple doctorates :3That's MY expertise Rysky. :)I studied the archdevils pretty thoroughly. Of course, I consider myself a expert on most LE outsiders. ^_^What about CE Outsiders? :3
Well I do. *shows of his dragon killing doctorate, his demonic killing doctorate, his fighting the forces of Hell doctorate and Undead killing Doctorate*
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On a sidenote, is it really that complex to make a template that grants the troop or the swarm subtype? What's actually bothering you guys from make it possible to turn a ratling into a swarm or a human soldier into a troop?It's pretty complex, yes, but it also opens the door to a design philosophy that I'm not a fan of. For the same reason we don't have a "dire animal" template or a "kaiju" template. A troop, a swarm, or a dire animal, or a kaiju is ALWAYS more interesting when it's hand-crafted as its own thing and not merely a template.
There's nothing bothering me about turning a ratling into a swarm or a human soldier into a troop—it just is more appetizing and interesting to build a ratling swarm or a soldier troop as a monster and not as a template.
Really... ? I didn't expect troops to be complex to assemble :P
BTW, I meant "bothering" as in "bugging you", "blocking you" or "stopping you", not about it being unnerving to you ;)
Oh. Well, then, personal preference is what's stopping me. I prefer troops (and swarms and etc.) as being custom-build monsters, not as templates.
What templates do you think need to be in a book, if any Mister Jacobs?
Oh. Well, then, personal preference is what's stopping me. I prefer troops (and swarms and etc.) as being custom-build monsters, not as templates.On a sidenote, is it really that complex to make a template that grants the troop or the swarm subtype? What's actually bothering you guys from make it possible to turn a ratling into a swarm or a human soldier into a troop?It's pretty complex, yes, but it also opens the door to a design philosophy that I'm not a fan of. For the same reason we don't have a "dire animal" template or a "kaiju" template. A troop, a swarm, or a dire animal, or a kaiju is ALWAYS more interesting when it's hand-crafted as its own thing and not merely a template.
There's nothing bothering me about turning a ratling into a swarm or a human soldier into a troop—it just is more appetizing and interesting to build a ratling swarm or a soldier troop as a monster and not as a template.
Really... ? I didn't expect troops to be complex to assemble :P
BTW, I meant "bothering" as in "bugging you", "blocking you" or "stopping you", not about it being unnerving to you ;)
I do remember that the Kaiju template, in a Dragon magazine, took like 4-5 pages :P I get that these are better when they are custom-made.
Still, I 'd like to see several troops, as part of a troop section ;)
- Goblin warbands
- Dwarven phalanx fighters
- Elven archers
- Orc or half-orc raiders
- Human cavalry
- Hobgoblin squadron
- Zombie horde
- Commoner angry mob
These are just examples of course ;)
Jury shouldn't be out. (Pathfinder) Geryon was originally an asura rana. I suspect that you are correct that they will all have the devil subtype though.Can someone remind me who/what are the 8 arch devils again?In order, they are: Barbatos, Dispater, Mammon, Belial, Geryon, Moloch, Baalzebul, and Mephistopheles.
Six are definitely devils, albeit of wildly varying forms. Jury's out on Geryon and Barbatos, but I'm guessing they'll have the subtype. ^_^
Hm, if Geryon was originally an asura, then I suppose it could potentially stand to reason that Barbatos was likely some kind of crazy powerful LE aberration before ascending, considering he's rather... Tentacle-y.
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What templates do you think need to be in a book, if any Mister Jacobs?
Ones that play to the strength of the way templates work. Look to Bestiarys 1–5 for plenty of examples: lich, vampire, broken soul, devilbound creature, worm that walks, half-dragon, half-fiend, skeleton, lycanthrope, etc.
One good way to sum it up is to look at it this way—if the template, when applied to most creatures in most situations, results in a relatively similar looking and acting end result, then it's a good candidate for a template.
A vampire still feels like a vampire whether it's on a human fighter or elven wizard or dwarven rogue. A lich still feels like a lich regardless of the spellcasting class the human was before then. A werewolf still acts like the monster you're familiar with from the movies. There's plenty of potential exceptions, but the classic is there.
Troops and swarms simply don't lend themselves well to a template format, because they're too complex in the way they interact with such a wide range of potential individual powers.
Thank you for that clarification, Mister Jacobs. :)
Ashram,
Perhap or else he came from a time much further in the future to the past.
However it gets done, I'd love to see something eventually done with the troop type/template/whatever. Especially if we get ideas on how to make one up.
Also, Geryon was once an asura rana? When and where was this revealed?
Eric,
Hell's Vengeance #2 I believe. or #5 I forget which one had the article. I know it was in Hell's Vengeance AP.
Thank you, Mister Seitz.
No problem Mister Hinkle. I'm happy to help.
Any chance of seeing some great old ones in this book?
Shackled City included a well-thought-out mob template.
Any chance of seeing some great old ones in this book?
Given that strange Aeons is giving us 6, I'm feeling like the answer is no, but I REALLLLLLLY hope I'm wrong. On the more positive side of that argument, I believe James did say that not all the demigods are outsiders, so that is a mark in favour of the Great Old Ones being included.