Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Path of the Hellknight (PFRPG)

Also, it may be just me, but holy hell does that armor those Hellknights are wearing on the cover look tough as nails to put on.

I wish Paizo had included the Fast-Donning Straps armor accessory (or something similar) from the Races of Stone book of Wizards of the Coast.

Maybe then armor wouldn't be such a pain to endure for Fighters.

Is that similar to the armor truss from the Melee Tactics Toolbox?

Armor Training (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +4 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.

In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.

Was kinda referring to the time it took for fighters to don armor Gor. I'm well aware of the Fighter class Armor Training ability.

Also, Armor Master's Handbook has the Quick Donning advanced armor training feature, whereas you can swap out your -1 ACP + Max Dex for ability to don and discard armor faster and with a chance for no penalties at all.

However I did not know about the Quick Donning Advanced armor Training Feature. Is that a Feat or just an optional rule Fighters can use for the class?

Is that similar to the armor truss from the Melee Tactics Toolbox?

Huh, well I'll be darned. I guess that solves the problem then. :D

Is there any guidance for parties wanting to form new orders ?

Is there any guidance for parties wanting to form new orders ?

Not specifically. The closest thing would be looking at the given orders and comparing your ideas to what's given.

What Hellknight Aegis, Hellknight Obedience, Hellknight Obsession and Signifier Armor Training do?

Curious, does the Faceless Enforcer archetype for Vigilante have to be a Hellknight?

It's not mentioned in a special or requirements section but then there's this,

At 5th level, when he changes his identity, a faceless enforcer has a third option (instead of social or vigilante): he can assume a fictional identity with no known ties to his Hellknight affiliation, his social identity, or his vigilante identity.

It's the only mention of Hellknights in the archetype.

Most of the game content here chooses to imply the Hellknight requirement, rather than explicitly say "you must be a Hellknight to do the thing". I noticed that when I first read through it.

What Hellknight Aegis, Hellknight Obedience, Hellknight Obsession and Signifier Armor Training do?

Hellknight Aegis: Break your Hellknight armor to cast a cleric spell on yourself to remove harmful conditions.

Hellknight Obedience: Gain proficiency with your order's weapons. Each day, you can beat yourself up per your order's reckoning to gain a bonus and possibly boons as listed for your order (in a format similar to the Divine Obedience entries in Inner Sea Gods).

Hellknight Obsession: If you inflict lethal rather than non-lethal damage on yourself during your daily reckoning, later on that day you can inflict one point of damage on yourself to gain one of four listed benefits.

Signifer Armor Training: Reduce arcane spell failure chance for Hellknight armor by 30%.

Most of the game content here chooses to imply the Hellknight requirement, rather than explicitly say "you must be a Hellknight to do the thing". I noticed that when I first read through it.

*nods*

That's what I thought too at first, but the above mentioned feats specifically call out having to be a Hellknight in their requirements so I'm unsure (Caster's Champion is also a nice feat).

The other stuff is prefaced with "Members of this Order created this" or some variant thereof, there isn't any of that for the Faceless Enforcer.

There's also the (I admit very, very, minor) thing that it's called Faceless Enforcer and not Hellknight Enforcer or something.

The items that require you to be a Hellknight seem to be those that reference either specific Hellknight Orders or Hellknight armor in general.

Kalindlara wrote:

Most of the game content here chooses to imply the Hellknight requirement, rather than explicitly say "you must be a Hellknight to do the thing". I noticed that when I first read through it.

*nods*

That's what I thought too at first, but the above mentioned feats specifically call out having to be a Hellknight in their requirements so I'm unsure (Caster's Champion is also a nice feat).

The other stuff is prefaced with "Members of this Order created this" or some variant thereof, there isn't any of that for the Faceless Enforcer.

There's also the (I admit very, very, minor) thing that it's called Faceless Enforcer and not Hellknight Enforcer or something.

It's like the stuff out of Monster Codex - thematically appropriate to ___, but technically open for everyone.

Though being an oracle of the God-claw who isn't a hellknight would be weird =P

Rysky wrote:

Kalindlara wrote:

Most of the game content here chooses to imply the Hellknight requirement, rather than explicitly say "you must be a Hellknight to do the thing". I noticed that when I first read through it.

*nods*

That's what I thought too at first, but the above mentioned feats specifically call out having to be a Hellknight in their requirements so I'm unsure (Caster's Champion is also a nice feat).

The other stuff is prefaced with "Members of this Order created this" or some variant thereof, there isn't any of that for the Faceless Enforcer.

There's also the (I admit very, very, minor) thing that it's called Faceless Enforcer and not Hellknight Enforcer or something.

It's like the stuff out of Monster Codex - thematically appropriate to ___, but technically open for everyone.

Though being an oracle of the God-claw who isn't a hellknight would be weird =P

Actually with how cursed Oracles are that would actually be kinda fitting.

*Order of the Godclaw Hellknight bursts in* "You, who have been blessed by the Five themselves, must come with us."

*Oracle now with curse of broken front door* "Uh, do they accept refunds?"

Rysky wrote:

Kalindlara wrote:

Most of the game content here chooses to imply the Hellknight requirement, rather than explicitly say "you must be a Hellknight to do the thing". I noticed that when I first read through it.

*nods*

That's what I thought too at first, but the above mentioned feats specifically call out having to be a Hellknight in their requirements so I'm unsure (Caster's Champion is also a nice feat).

The other stuff is prefaced with "Members of this Order created this" or some variant thereof, there isn't any of that for the Faceless Enforcer.

There's also the (I admit very, very, minor) thing that it's called Faceless Enforcer and not Hellknight Enforcer or something.

It's like the stuff out of Monster Codex - thematically appropriate to ___, but technically open for everyone.

Though being an oracle of the God-claw who isn't a hellknight would be weird =P

Godclaw Oracle that's unaffiliated does a nice job of representing an Oracle drawing from multiple deities in contrast to a Cleric.

nighttree wrote:

can anyone give some information on the Order of the Glyph ?

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Ah, so House Thrune had gone beyond Nineteen Eighty-Four and developed the concepts of "Goodfact" and "Realfact" (hint: Babylon 5 reference).

f5 f5 f5 f5

Wasn't sure if it would be alright to ask this question outside of the product discussion, since it's brand new, but what is up with the Hellknight half-plate? Since it's as normal half-plate it has a higher ASF chance than normal Hellknight plate, despite being described as signifer-friendly.

I could certainly make it out of mithral, but I could make full plate out of mithral too, and end up saving a feat for further reducing spell failure.

5% isn't that bad, but it feels odd to be casting without issue in the armor made for our martial brothers and sisters rather than armor designed for us.

Finn,

Did you want something that granted AC bonus the same as Half plate? Or something else?

Finn,

Did you want something that granted AC bonus the same as Half plate? Or something else?

No, I was only wondering about the spell failure and thought I had missed something in the PDF. I didn't, it's just a little higher, so all is well. :)

I just got this hoping they be some good stuff in it and maybe clarification on the way disciplines work as per uses per day. As that is still very confusing with disciplines like pandemic faith, that grants domain powers, which some have their own users per day . very disappointing in it.

The Good
They added a good bit to the existing orders already and some have some really neat boons, that be acquired via Hellknight Obedience, but the abilities seem to come way too late. 12 hitdice +, the new disciples are Good to ok for the most party only one bad one in my opinion. I really do like the armor teleportation power, and Versatile Intimidation (which seem like it should be static, ability but if you read hellknight prc it should have limited uses per day.)

few interesting feats found under the Major order sections

Censoring Critical = Awesome even thou it late in the game. mute spell caster for 1 rd on passed save failed save is 1d4+1rd.

Relic Breaker is also pretty cool sunder something and maybe character the person on fire.

Caster’s Champion- is ok way of trying making up for removing SLA count as prerqu and not allowing more people to take arcane strike, even if this is limited times per day the fact that it is swift action make it a ok feat for martial. especial at earlier levels when you may not have a magic weapon. All you need is arcane caster in party, which most parties have.

The BAD
Favored Quarry is practically useless. a very small bonus to skill checks vs 1 type of enemy. which is based of your prc level (should be based off total character level or grant favored enemy bonus also.) (also is this limited times per day? See the prc need a rewrite and lot of clarification. so this was missed chance at doing that.)

Hell knight barding, useless, it is just a handy cap, does nothing for a mount at all expect slow it down. just stick to normal barding. (maybe it should have been magic armor that grant the mount the same hellknight armor powers while the hellknight was mounted.)

HELLKNIGHT LEATHER??? what is the point of this, cost more weights more and does nothing? umm does it count as hell knight armor allow hell knight to user his armor based abilities? should it also be master work like hell knight armor. It actual states in hell knight half plate it still counts as hell knight plate. This armor does not. Missed opportunity to branch in to maybe dex based hell knights.

Minor Orders, waste of space. I was really hoping for more detail with this, but all it is nothing but nice descriptions, and list of reckonings, but what are the boons that go with that order, what are their Order base Disciplines? No clue So I am guessing I just pick any disciplines I want. Unlike the major orders who are forced into certain Discipline choice at X level? for the boons it says you can use associated parent order but not that you have to, but there is a minor order that actual has no associated order. So just cherry pick what you want?

Order of the Ennead Star. warning this is really for GM use only. the scope to declare your challenge is narrow or to broad(GM has total discretion on this.) to you actual witnessing a crime being committed, and also chaotic person. The same for the orders other too abilities. So in the wilderness or dungeon you odds are going to be pretty useless. Also it does not actual work well with the hell knight Prc, as you are going to lose out on all your caviler stuff, and end up with a weaker mount. would have been nice to have a feat or abilities in the older that let the levels stack for counting for few those things.

Would someone be willing to paraphrase the Gate Breaker feat and prereqs?

Curious to know what folks who have read this think about the new cavalier archtype.

Gate Breaker gives bonus damage equal to strength mod when damaging objects. Pre recs are STR 13, Imp Sunder, Power Attack and +1 base attack.

I don't understand the Hellknight Inquisitor trait. It says "If you are an inquisitor, you can select any inquisition associated with your preffered Hellknight order, as long as you and your patron deity are of a lawful alignment". I can chose any inquisition I want can't I? Why does the trait imply otherwise?

...HELLKNIGHT LEATHER??? what is the point of this, cost more weights more and does nothing? umm does it count as hell knight armor allow hell knight to user his armor based abilities? should it also be master work like hell knight armor. It actual states in hell knight half plate it still counts as hell knight plate. This armor does not. Missed opportunity to branch in to maybe dex based hell knights.

Armored Spellcasting, Hellknight Aegis, and Signifer Armor Training call Hellknight Armor "any armor with “Hellknight” in the name" so the leather armor would count for those and probably count for anything else that calls for Hellknight armor but doesn't directly say Hellknight Plate.

That sounds ridiculously powerful for a build that utilizes sundering. Which is fantastic, since I've been toying with building a sunder focused character for a while.
It's been awhile since Sunder got any love anyhow.

Gate Breaker gives bonus damage equal to strength mod when damaging objects. Pre recs are STR 13, Imp Sunder, Power Attack and +1 base attack.

I don't understand the Hellknight Inquisitor trait. It says "If you are an inquisitor, you can select any inquisition associated with your preffered Hellknight order, as long as you and your patron deity are of a lawful alignment". I can chose any inquisition I want can't I? Why does the trait imply otherwise?

Inquisitor inquisitions are available by deity, so an inquisitor of Pharasma has access to different inquisitions than an inquisitor of Abadar. In this case, an inquisitor of Abadar could take any of the, say, Order of the Chain inquisitions despite their not appearing on Abadar's list. Perhaps even more intriguing, this opens up inquisition access further to minor deities, many of which have no associated inquisitions.

KainPen wrote:

...HELLKNIGHT LEATHER??? what is the point of this, cost more weights more and does nothing? umm does it count as hell knight armor allow hell knight to user his armor based abilities? should it also be master work like hell knight armor. It actual states in hell knight half plate it still counts as hell knight plate. This armor does not. Missed opportunity to branch in to maybe dex based hell knights.

Armored Spellcasting, Hellknight Aegis, and Signifer Armor Training call Hellknight Armor "any armor with “Hellknight” in the name" so the leather armor would count for those and probably count for anything else that calls for Hellknight armor but doesn't directly say Hellknight Plate.

This is correct.

Thank you for clarifying that Amanda and Silverrey! :)

I really like the Circuit Judge. For one it can be combined with a lot of other Cavalier Archetypes. But what I really love about it is that Sentence (while way less powerful than Challenge) can be used twice as often and thus allows you to utilize your orders challenge ability far more reliably. Thus you can now actually build around an Orders challenge ability such as the Order of the Hammer or the Order of the Seal.

The Circuit ability, while flavorful, seems a bit weak in a lot of campaigns (including PFS) however.

KainPen wrote:

...HELLKNIGHT LEATHER??? what is the point of this, cost more weights more and does nothing? umm does it count as hell knight armor allow hell knight to user his armor based abilities? should it also be master work like hell knight armor. It actual states in hell knight half plate it still counts as hell knight plate. This armor does not. Missed opportunity to branch in to maybe dex based hell knights.

Armored Spellcasting, Hellknight Aegis, and Signifer Armor Training call Hellknight Armor "any armor with “Hellknight” in the name" so the leather armor would count for those and probably count for anything else that calls for Hellknight armor but doesn't directly say Hellknight Plate.

So really only use is Aegis, because the Prerequisites for the signifer Armor Training are all the arcane armor feats and heavy armor. which already knocks out that 10 failure%. With the 1st arcane armor feat for the same action the rest with the 2nd feat. there is no need to even take that signifer armor training unless you plan on going with heavy armor, and if you going with heavy armor why are you buying that leather????

I hope the leather get reprinted to count as hell knight plate or Hell Knight PrC gets reprinted and hell knight armor gets rewritten to count any set of armor with the word hell knight in it as hell knight armor. As I said before this book was great chance to do that, with the extra stuff and would have been worth it.

Hellknight leather armor is for undercover work or being out at sea (where full plate will potentially kill you). It's not supposed to be used if the proper armor is an option, which translates into losing some, but not all, of the class and feat benefits. Being a clanking tank-thing is part of their schtick.

I hope the leather get reprinted to count as hell knight plate or Hell Knight PrC gets reprinted and hell knight armor gets rewritten to count any set of armor with the word hell knight in it as hell knight armor. As I said before this book was great chance to do that, with the extra stuff and would have been worth it.

The PrC already uses the wording of "Hellknight armor" for class features which Amanda Hamon Kunz confirmed means the Hellknight leather would count for those. The Faceless Enforcer I think is the only place that directly calls for "Hellknight Plate" now that I am looking back through things

I really like the Circuit Judge. For one it can be combined with a lot of other Cavalier Archetypes. But what I really love about it is that Sentence (while way less powerful than Challenge) can be used twice as often and thus allows you to utilize your orders challenge ability far more reliably. Thus you can now actually build around an Orders challenge ability such as the Order of the Hammer or the Order of the Seal.

The Circuit ability, while flavorful, seems a bit weak in a lot of campaigns (including PFS) however.

Can you give a brief overview of what it gains and swaps out?

Thanks!

Circuit replaces tactician, greater tactician, and master tactician.

Sentence replaces challenge.

Double jeopardy replaces demanding challenge.

KainPen wrote:

I hope the leather get reprinted to count as hell knight plate or Hell Knight PrC gets reprinted and hell knight armor gets rewritten to count any set of armor with the word hell knight in it as hell knight armor. As I said before this book was great chance to do that, with the extra stuff and would have been worth it.

The PrC already uses the wording of "Hellknight armor" for class features which Amanda Hamon Kunz confirmed means the Hellknight leather would count for those. The Faceless Enforcer I think is the only place that directly calls for "Hellknight Plate" now that I am looking back through things

Glad to know Amanda says that it supposed to work, but the PRC has tons of flaws and mess ups in it. it is RAI but RAW is going to be very very different

like it 2nd level ability

"Hellknight Armor (Ex): At 2nd level, a Hellknight earns the right to wear Hellknight armor (see page 290). While wearing this armor, the Hellknight reduces the armor check penalty by 1, increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by 1, and moves at full speed. At 5th level, these adjustments increase to 2. At 8th level, these adjustments increase to 3."

When you look at page 290 it list Hellknight plate armor. the fact that it has the page number this means all the abilities that reference Hell Knight Armor in the Prc are referencing is Hellknight plate. in that book.

if you look further at the actual hellknight plate entry

"These distinctive suits of armor are a special type of masterwork full plate that, when worn by a character with levels in the Hellknight prestige class, grants additional effects." Note it says grant additional effects. Meaning it works because this is the intend armor to grant those abilities to PRC. no other armor is going to work.

This is why hell knight half plate calls out that it also counts/functions as hell knight plate. It makes and exception to let it functions as such. the leather has no such statement. Meaning it by RAW it does not preform the same function.

The Signifer PRC gets to avoid all this as none of it's abilities actual require a one type of armor. It is a better made PRC. The Hell knight is in desperate need of some clean up.

Edit
I am not going to comment on this any more here. If someone wants to talking about it further we can start a thread in the rules board.

Noticed the lictor of the Pike is different in this book than in HV - was she displaced during the ensuing events?

Maybe she decided to step off and let someone else handle stuff, Decius...

Could be!

Just saying. I mean politics, especially in Cheliax is pretty murderous.

The one listed here is LG, with the one in HV being LE, so it could be that, or she held sympathies toward the Reclamation.

The Hellknights are supposedly champions of Law without regards to Good or Evil yet the have chosen Hell as their example. If they were truly agents of pure Law they would have chosen Axis the Lawful Neutral plane rather than Lawful Evil Hell.
The fact that Iomedae supports the Hellknights is no big surprise but it did raise the question - did Iomedae betray Aroden?

The Hellknights are supposedly champions of Law without regards to Good or Evil yet the have chosen Hell as their example. If they were truly agents of pure Law they would have chosen Axis the Lawful Neutral plane rather than Lawful Evil Hell.

The fact that Iomedae supports the Hellknights is no big surprise but it did raise the question - did Iomedae betray Aroden?

Hell vs. Axis: Axis is a little too big on true, mathematical order, while Hell focuses on a more practical hierarchical lawfulness. Hellknights are nowhere near true agents or pure law, nor do they want to be, nor are the orders without biases between good and evil.

If you want to start Aroden conspiracy theories over it, feel free.

The Hellknights are supposedly champions of Law without regards to Good or Evil yet the have chosen Hell as their example. If they were truly agents of pure Law they would have chosen Axis the Lawful Neutral plane rather than Lawful Evil Hell.

The Hellknights are the outgrowth of their particular culture and its needs and limitations, not a philosopher armed with Paizo's sourcebooks. If they felt they needed a particularly ruthless and harsh take on law and/or their culture was more familiar with devils than inevitables you'd have a reason to use Hell as your ideal (and caution).

The problem with modeling off of Axis that the Axiomites are beings of living math who are in turn deploying an army of incorruptible and unswaying killer robots.

That's... not really something you can model a human army off of.

Zhangar,

Plus I think they knew where killer robots would lead...

Too bad Pathfinder does not have the plane of Nirvana

Glad to know Amanda says that it supposed to work, but the PRC has tons of flaws and mess ups in it. it is RAI but RAW is going to be very very different

It sure is a mess of a PRC.

I cannot fathom how they didn't polish it up because it was clearly going to be a popular option.

Too bad Pathfinder does not have the plane of Nirvana

Technically it does.

Hellknight Obedience opens the door to many chivalric order obedience possibilities...

scifan888 wrote:

Too bad Pathfinder does not have the plane of Nirvana

Technically it does.

It does?

Thomas Seitz wrote:

scifan888 wrote:

Too bad Pathfinder does not have the plane of Nirvana

Technically it does.

It does?

Yes, it's the Neutral Good plane.