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I'm running Skull and Shackles right now, so it'd be cool if someone filled me in on Besmara's Obedience and Boons.** spoiler omitted **...
Thanks for posting that Feros. I'm waiting to buy the PDF on this one, so I haven't seen this stuff yet.
I would seriously consider taking Deific Obedience on my cleric of Besmara now that I've read that. It's not exactly the most optimized feat possibility, but it's highly flavorful. And as a front line (bad touch) cleric, the AC bonus from AoO's could be useful.
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Anything to actually justify making a Sentinel of the best goddess ever aka, Naderi?
Hmm, the First Boon gives you icicle dagger, castigate, or howling agony, Second um... will get back to this... Third Boon let's you use globe of invulnerability on yourself for a number of rounds per day equal to HD.
As for the Second Boon, I think a large part of it got chopped out. It lets you do a cone shaped bane effect (it doesn't actually say the spell but it has effectively the same effect) against foes. But it doesn't mention what action it is to use it, how long it lasts, how many times it can be used per day, or even where the burst is emanated from (I'm assuming from yourself).
*scratches head*
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Well, we can extrapolate from others. Since it's a little less powerful that the exalted 2nd boon, we can place it most likely at 3/day. Bursts default to emanate from the caster, so without any other info that is correct. It is most likely a standard action, as it isn't an emergency use type ability.
Since it seems to be mainly a combat oriented ability, looking at other similar abilities in the book suggest as many rounds as the character using the boon has Hit Dice.
This should be either covered as a FAQ or something, as Campaign Setting books rarely get reprinted and this appears to errata.
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Hmm, it might have gotten chopped (either by me when I edited it down to word count or during dev, but Amanda's much better with mechanics than I am so I'm going to go with it being me...). I'll check with her.
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Anything to actually justify making a Sentinel of the best goddess ever aka, Naderi?Hmm, the First Boon gives you icicle dagger, castigate, or howling agony, Second um... will get back to this... Third Boon let's you use globe of invulnerability on yourself for a number of rounds per day equal to HD.
As for the Second Boon, I think a large part of it got chopped out. It lets you do a cone shaped bane effect (it doesn't actually say the spell but it has effectively the same effect) against foes. But it doesn't mention what action it is to use it, how long it lasts, how many times it can be used per day, or even where the burst is emanated from (I'm assuming from yourself).
*scratches head*
Thanks for the question! This indeed requires a standard action and is a 3/day ability that emanates from the user. The effect lasts a number of rounds equal to your Hit Dice (that part is mentioned in the ability itself).
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My interpretation may be a bit more liberal than that of Feros. It's probably pro-Naderi bias. ^_^
Supernatural abilities are standard actions unless otherwise specified. (CRB 186)
The bane effect is almost certainly (99.9%) intended to last as long as the staggered effect.
If an effect doesn't list a number of times per day, it can generally be surmised to be usable at will.
Cone-shaped bursts always emanate from the user. (CRB 214 - it's for spells, but I think we can assume a similar guideline here.)
Thoughts?
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My interpretation may be a bit more liberal than that of Feros. It's probably pro-Naderi bias. ^_^
Supernatural abilities are standard actions unless otherwise specified. (CRB 186)
The bane effect is almost certainly (99.9%) intended to last as long as the staggered effect.
If an effect doesn't list a number of times per day, it can generally be surmised to be usable at will.
Cone-shaped bursts always emanate from the user. (CRB 214 - it's for spells, but I think we can assume a similar guideline here.)
Thoughts?
You got it, except the ability is intended to be 3/day.
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I got it completely right! Yay me!
:D
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Thanks for the question! This indeed requires a standard action and is a 3/day ability that emanates from the user. The effect lasts a number of rounds equal to your Hit Dice (that part is mentioned in the ability itself).Anything to actually justify making a Sentinel of the best goddess ever aka, Naderi?Hmm, the First Boon gives you icicle dagger, castigate, or howling agony, Second um... will get back to this... Third Boon let's you use globe of invulnerability on yourself for a number of rounds per day equal to HD.
As for the Second Boon, I think a large part of it got chopped out. It lets you do a cone shaped bane effect (it doesn't actually say the spell but it has effectively the same effect) against foes. But it doesn't mention what action it is to use it, how long it lasts, how many times it can be used per day, or even where the burst is emanated from (I'm assuming from yourself).
*scratches head*
Okies, thank you (and Price too) for answering ^w^
Skimmed the PDF, initial mechanical impression is that the boons are generally awful and very underpowered compared to those that have gone before, especially the demonic and empyreal obediences.
More to say in detail later (Sivanah is LOL bad power-wise), but I wonder if this is an intentional stealth nerf to new obediences as a matter of policy. I'll freely admit some of the earlier published ones are easily the best late game feat choices in the game.
Maybe that is why these deities are "lesser" deities? Their obediences do not give bonuses as good as those of the "greater" deities.
They're "real" deities unlike the demigod demon lords and empyreal lords, and all of those get much better stuff. You can get +4 on a save (often a very important one), and eventually a 7th or enhanced 6th level spell, and a capping 9th level spell from their obediences. Or you can get the Sivanah garbage which is just laughably less powerful than that stuff.
No, I was just suggesting that their crappier boons was the reason that they were less popular than the "big 20" -- not that they were any less powerful.
Oh. Upon further thought the unitary Demonic/Celestial obediences are generally much more powerful than the triple splits they introduced with Inner Sea Gods.
Does it seem bizarre to anyone else that Evangelists of Milani get not one, not two, but three Charm/Compulsion effects for their spell-like ability choices? The very effects that the 3rd boon is meant to counter?
Charms and Compulsions seem like the opposite of what a CG deity of Freedom and Purity would wield. I can totally see how these effects would aid in a revolution or freeing slaves, but it seems so contrary to Milani's beliefs.
I think buff spells like Bless (which is also a compulsion effect because..?), Aid/Heroism, or Good Hope would be more fitting than Command, Enthrall, and Suggestion.
I think it's clear you're supposed to be using them against oppressors. A Milanite can also chain up their enemies rather than kill or let them go free, it's not weird because chains are used on slaves.
I think it's clear you're supposed to be using them against oppressors. A Milanite can also chain up their enemies rather than kill or let them go free, it's not weird because chains are used on slaves.
Well sure, you can use these spells to oppose evil if you want to keep them alive, but Milani also does not believe in compromise with evil or tyranny. I think her devoted would be more likely to use force in these sort of situations.
Ignoring that, the spells just don't seem to fit what Milani is all about, either. I would feel the similarly if they gave Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, and Fireball. Just because they can be used against tyranny it doesn't mean they really envelop or exemplify what I feel Milani stands for.
I was a little sad that appeasing Sivanah does not really make one a better illusionist. Apparently, the Dowager of Illusion has that locked down.
Although I cannot recall any of the Obediences that made me hungry to try out these gods mechanically speaking -- like how ISG made me very interested in playing an invoker dedicated to the Rough Beast -- I loved the flavor and the lore this book has.
If the powers that be read threads like this, then I will always buy the stuff you publish about the gods and their boons. Please make more.
I was a little sad that appeasing Sivanah does not really make one a better illusionist. Apparently, the Dowager of Illusion has that locked down.
Mestama also has +2 DC to illusions, but not until the 2nd boon. The Mahathallah obedience has the weird distinction of having the absolutely best up front benefit (three feats in one from the start), but garbage after that. LOL, drug use, sure.
The first hit, as they say, is free.
There appears to be a discrepancy between Inner Sea Faiths and the Inner Sea World Guide. The holiday "Seven Veils" is listed as occurring on Neth 23 in the ISWG, but the entry for Sivanah's holidays in Inner Sea Faiths says that "in most parts of the Inner Sea region, this holiday takes place on 7 Neth."
Based on the descriptions, these seem to be the same holiday and not two holidays with coincidentally the same name in the same month.
Normally I'd say that one of these dates is part of a misinformation campaign. But since it's Sivanah, *both* of them are probably fake.
You're assuming that the holiday even exists.
dunnh dunnh dunnnnhhh...!
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The holiday on the 23rd is merely an illusion.
One goddess who had previously left me cold -- Besmara -- is now much more interesting. I loved her origin story and I thought that her boons actually aligned with what she has power over. Goddess of sea monsters actually giving you the ability to summon sea monsters she has bullied? Awesome.
I think it is a shame that Gyronna's Evangelist boons don't have anything that specifically benefits witches. I kept hoping for some awesome evil eye action, or something.
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Heh, with her that is very likely :3
Hell Fox be trollin something fierce.
They see me trollin', they hatin'
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*thinks if see trolls trolling you kill it with fire*
Just not Jessica Price. She's awesome. :)
Wow, the Groetus obedience and boons are all over the place.
The benefit of the obedience is A+ for utility (bonus on all Will saves) and a F on strength (+1). There are other obediences that give +4 on all mind affecting, or enchantment, or illusions, so I think a +2 would have been more appropriate.
Some spell level weirdness on first boons, Confusion as a 3rd, Bestow Curse as a 3rd. I think its been (nearly?) universal that all spells from this ability have been at the highest level when they appear on multiple lists, which would make Bestow Curse wrong (if forgivable), but I don't remember ever seeing a 4th level only spell like Confusion available in 3rd through an Obedience. Nice, I guess.
Evangelist boons are awful. A demonic/celestial obedience gives you a 7th level spell once per day. This one gives you...1d8 temporary HP. If you destroy a corpse. WTF, this has to be the worst boon ever published. The third boon should be equivalent to a 9th level spell if you went demonic/celestial, but here you get a weakened version of Insanity, a 7th level spell.
But the Exalted boons are AMAZING! A+++ Number two gives you a combo of three good defensive spells that last a long time for the ultimate ability to break contact and recover from a fight, and even if they penetrate the effects they might get hit with a round of confusion. Awesome. And the 3rd boon, OMG. Immorality and a fantastic pseudo-contingency ability. If you reach the level you have this boon, you're only going to ever die because you want to.
The Sentinel boons are solid, B+.
I can only conclude, appropriately, that an insane person wrote this grab bag of disparate abilities. Groetus is real, folks.
An error in the Besmara obedience:
Coerce Service (Su) You understand and can exhibit the
blatantly charismatic pull of your goddess, convincing others to aid you even if they normally might not. Once per day, when you attempt a Diplomacy check to bribe a target (treat as if you are attempting to improve an NPC’s attitude toward you by one step) or an Intimidate check to coerce a target, you can use this ability to gain Besmara’s blessing to ensure further cooperation. You gain a +4 sacred or profane bonus (of the same type as that provided by your obedience) on the Diplomacy
or Intimidate check, and if you succeed, the target is immediately subject to a geas/quest effect. For as long as the effect lasts, you can concentrate as a standard action and learn whether the target is actively undertaking your orders or actively defying them.
That's a misreading of the geas/quest spell. You cannot defy the order, only be prevented by outside forces or environmental factors from carrying it out, with the accompanying penalties.
I hope this Groetus ability was an editing error:
Consume Essence (Su) As Groetus will one day consume all existence, so do you seek to consume other mortals. Once per day, you can consume the essence of a dead creature. You must touch the target corpse, which can attempt a Fortitude saving throw (DC = 10 + 1/2 your Hit Dice + your Charisma modifier). If it fails this saving throw, the target is destroyed as per disintegrate, and you gain 1d8 temporary hit points. These temporary hit points last for a number of hours equal to your Hit Dice.
Either someone thinks that disintegrating corpses is worth a 2nd boon, or they think that temp HP worse than the second level False Life spell is worth a 2nd boon. Ugh.
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Some spell level weirdness on first boons, Confusion as a 3rd, Bestow Curse as a 3rd. I think its been (nearly?) universal that all spells from this ability have been at the highest level when they appear on multiple lists, which would make Bestow Curse wrong (if forgivable), but I don't remember ever seeing a 4th level only spell like Confusion available in 3rd through an Obedience. Nice, I guess.
Confusion is 3rd level for Bards, actually.
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Wow, the Groetus obedience and boons are all over the place.
The benefit of the obedience is A+ for utility (bonus on all Will saves) and a F on strength (+1). There are other obediences that give +4 on all mind affecting, or enchantment, or illusions, so I think a +2 would have been more appropriate.
Some spell level weirdness on first boons, Confusion as a 3rd, Bestow Curse as a 3rd. I think its been (nearly?) universal that all spells from this ability have been at the highest level when they appear on multiple lists, which would make Bestow Curse wrong (if forgivable), but I don't remember ever seeing a 4th level only spell like Confusion available in 3rd through an Obedience. Nice, I guess.
Evangelist boons are awful. A demonic/celestial obedience gives you a 7th level spell once per day. This one gives you...1d8 temporary HP. If you destroy a corpse. WTF, this has to be the worst boon ever published. The third boon should be equivalent to a 9th level spell if you went demonic/celestial, but here you get a weakened version of Insanity, a 7th level spell.
For the Third Boon as you said confusion is a 3rd level spell, but insanity is a 7th, and this one has an increasing DC rather than spells which tend to be static.
And for the Second, while 1d8 isn't a lot it's the disintegrate that's nice. No raise dead or resurrection for that poor bastard. Very cinematic too.
The Insanity effect is absolutely worse than the spell. The spell has a Medium range instead of 30', and the DC is 17 + your casting stat, and can be heightened or boosted by Spell Focus if you want to, as well as being potentially subject to useful metamagic like Persistent Spell. The boon insanity effect might go as high as 20 + Charisma (depending on whether you get it as a prestige early access or at level 20 you might get it lower), but that's not so great if your casting stat isn't Charisma or you have Spell Focus or other boosters.
The one additional method to remove it adds insult to injury, but doesn't actually matter.
The Demonic/Celestial obediences that I use as the baseline for what I expect of deific obediences do sometimes give an effect less than 9th level, but then they apply metamagic or some other booster of additional effects. So I'd have expected Insanity as the spell 3/day, or 1/day Persistent Spell effect on Insanity.
I"ll admit that a lot of the Deific Obedience boons (and a minority of Demonic and Celestial ones) do go for weird non-spell effects that are hard to compare to a 9th level spell. Most of them are really bad (many worse than this Groetus Evangelist 3rd boon), a rare few are good, the Groetus Exalted 3rd boon is among the very best.
As far as the 2nd boon, again, my baseline is a 7th level spell once per day. Disintegrate is a 6th level spell that effects anything and can damage living creatures, not just destroy corpses and give (LOL) 1d8 HP in return. This is absolutely a fail.
Given how bad Evangelist is here vs. the excellent Exalted advantages, I think this must be metacommentary on the futility of trying to evangelize for Groetus.
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Would I take Insanity as a spell? Probbaly not.
Would I take Insanity as an ability that doesn't take up my resources? Sure.
You want everything to have equal strengths when compared to everything else of its kind? That's fine.
I prefer flavor over numbers. Nuking a corpse so it's allies can't raise it or cast breath of life or similar abilities on it? Pretty friggin cool. Especially if you're playing a class that doesn't normally get abilities or spells that let you do these things.
They see me trollin', they hatin'... they tradin'
Or regulating.
For months I had been looking forward to finding out what the Kurgess Obedience boon would be, only to find out that it is a sad
It's too bad Gorum already had the cool Strength check boosting mechanic, because that seems like it would have matched Kurgess much better.
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For those who play Pathfinder Society, this book was just added to the Additional Resources, and almost everything is allowed:
Obediences: All deific obediences in this book are legal for play except Gyronna's. An evangelist of Achaekek who qualifies for that deity's third boon can purchase a mask of the mantis as if it were a legal item; Misc.: All variant spellcasting options in this book are legal for play. All alternate paladin codes are legal for play.
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It seems to me like Gyronna and Zyphus' obediences and the general behavior of their worshipers would lead to said people frequently ending up on the receiving side of street violence. Only so much passive-aggressive nonsense people are willing to tolerate...
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For those who play Pathfinder Society, this book was just added to the Additional Resources, and almost everything is allowed:
Obediences: All deific obediences in this book are legal for play except Gyronna's. An evangelist of Achaekek who qualifies for that deity's third boon can purchase a mask of the mantis as if it were a legal item; Misc.: All variant spellcasting options in this book are legal for play. All alternate paladin codes are legal for play.
Gyronna's faithful will not be swift in forgetting this slight, Pathfinder support team! You shall rue the day!!!
So I'm curious, since he's been mentioned, what are some of the benefits the obedience of Kurgess gives to Sentinels and the like?