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Appreciate the responses, glad to see it works the way I hoped.

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Yes, I believe this works. You would get two instances of sneak attack damage. Very clever and useful, and also not overpowered IMHO.

However based on your post you may seem to think that the scout archetype abilities allow you to treat your enemies as flat footed, while they in truth only allow you to treat your enemies as flat footed for the purposes of sneak attack. In essence this means you do get to apply sneak attack damage but you are still targeting their normal AC.

Just me writing the question a touch poorly, but appreciate the qualification.

Just curious how this feat and archetype interact.

Flinging Charge reads as:

Flinging Charge:

If you have a thrown weapon in hand when you begin charging, you can make a ranged attack with that weapon against the target of your charge at any point during your charge... You can then immediately draw a melee weapon during your charge. You take a –5 penalty on the melee attack made at the end of the charge...

While the Scout Rogue's archetype features read as:

Scout’s Charge:

At 4th level, whenever a scout makes a charge, her attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed...


At 8th level, whenever a scout moves more than 10 feet in a round and makes an attack action, the attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target was flat-footed. If the scout makes more than one attack this turn, this ability only applies to the first attack...

To my reading then a Scout Rogue, with Throwing Weapon in hand, could declare a charge and, after moving 10ft, make a ranged attack as if the enemy was flatfooted (Skirmisher) before finishing the charge into the target and making a melee attack as if the enemy was again flatfooted (Scouts Charge).

Is my reading of this alright or have I missed anything? Thanks for any help.

Much appreciated Roadie. If I could I'd like to follow that up with any details on what Rangers have got archetype/combat style ways?

If it's not too strenuous can somebody let me know what archetypes/talents the Rogue has been given?

I understand that the OP is looking for PFS Legal but taking the suggestions all given above combined with a VMC Rogue would make a pretty decent basis for a Stealth Cleric.

Cleric (VMC Rogue) with the Trickery Domain and Clandestine Inquisition gives you Trapfinding as well as Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Bluff and Disguise all as Class Skills. It also makes those skills more effective with a number of Stealth and Trickery focused Domain/Inquisition Spells and Powers while eventually leaving you with a decent SA.

Honestly not so bad and it's something I'd like to try in the future.

I'm 25 and have spent some time in parts of Sudan as part of a private company providing water security. If after a quarter of a century and direct contact I still struggle to put myself in the shoes of others of my own species, who may share the same gender, orientation and faith but happened to be born in a different part of the world then why even bother pretending to be anything other than human?

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I think the biggest issue I have AA2 is the lost potential with weapon and armour modifications for mundane crafters.

As is it's already a laborious process for Master Smiths to get access to creating Magical equipment and the like and, when I first heard of the new mundane modifications, I thought that Craft (Xsmith) would finally have somewhere to shine.

Sure if you throw down a pair of feats you can, eventually, grant some modified equipment to the rest of your party and not just yourself and even then only temporarily. I'm curious why there wasn't the option to actually craft these modifications yourself, permanently, with the various Craft skills while the "Creative Xsmith" feats instead serving as ways to remove the drawbacks and add additional modifications, which admittedly Modification Mastery does temporarily.

Honestly it's just a bloody sad waste of potential and I hate trumpeting the "Martials don't get nice things" line of thought but this all just feels like a fun flavorful option let down by awful mechanics.

Beyond that the book seems fun, I like the different weapons and armours introduced as well as the new, and old, alchemical items.

Dark Midian wrote:
I still doubt we'll ever see the aligned class class feature in another prestige class. It's a very powerful ability and more or less goes against their original design philosophy for prestige classes, which was "We don't want prestige classes to be base classes 2.0".

In fact the Chernasardo Warden from Fangs of War has the aligned class feature, but only 1/2 as opposed to the Full-1 of the Evangelist. Works as a Rogue/Ranger mix concentrating on guerilla conflict. Pretty fun Prestige really.

Dark Midian wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

Allow me to cross-post this so you can see what changed for Hellknight: Pathfinder Adventurer's Guide Reprints

Keeping with the thread, my favorites are Dragon Disciple, Soul Warden (Before the hallowed necromancer wizard archetype), and Chevalier, which I wish they'd update.

I forgot all about the Chevalier. Do love that Class, concept throws itself well on dozens of characters with little to no fuss.

Big fan of Noble Scion. Works so well with VMC's and the like while keeping a decent chunk of flavour throughout.

So the Rousing Courage trait from Divine Anthology states that:

Rousing Courage:
...Once per day, when you generate an effect that grants a morale bonus, increase that bonus by 1 for all creatures affected.

Now, how would this interact with the Cavalier's Banner class ability? Since it's a passive ability you're always generating the morale bonus, does the trait apply from the moment you wake up in the morning and secure your banner or, well, what?

1. Cavalier
2. Scout Rogue
3. Fighter

1. Sniper Rogue
2. Crossbow Fighter
3. Warpriest

1. Cavalier
2. Fighter
3. Bard

Bit out of the blue I know, but I'm a big fan of trying to utilize martials in ways that would, most likely, be better filled by casters.

An order of the Dragon Cavalier gains the ability to grant their allies a free move action. The Cavalier itself is a decent chassis for an armoured martial character that buffs others and, if he really wanted to double down he could invest in the Standard Bearer and Strategist archetypes. Combo that all up with a Heraldic Shield and the Human favored class bonus for Cavaliers and you have a martial focused on buffing his team.

Calybos1 wrote:

A paladin in my home game is getting a cohort via Leadership, so I need to make up a level 7 human fighter with the Crossbowman archetype. Any suggested feats or equipment assuming a 20-point buy and average character wealth?

Overwatch Style works well with a Crossbow Fighter, to make the best out of Deadshot/Improved Deadshot.

To that end:

1st Level: Rapid Reload (Light Crossbow), Weapon Focus (Light Crossbow), Point Blank Shot.
2nd Level: Rapid Shot or Precise Shot
3rd Level: Rapid Shot or Precise Shot
4th Level: Overwatch Style
5th Level: Overwatch Tactician

After all that grab whatever floats your boat on the final two feats, personally would pick from:
Iron Will/Improved Initiative/Weapon Specialization/Advanced Weapon Training/Improved Bravery/Deadly Aim.

For a bit more feat intensive an approach you could try a Human Crossbowman (VMC Rogue) to take advantage of both Improved Deadshot and Quick Sniper. In any case as the character continues to level have a look at Burrowing Shot/Overwatch Vortex/Improved Critical to really make best use of the build/weapon.

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
Corbynsonn wrote:
I've built a Scout/Swashbuckler UnRogue running about with a Greatsword and trusting to Resilence/Multitalented and Roll With It to run about the front line. Also went ahead with a Poisoner/Underground Chemist build using the Heal skill unlock and new Healers Satchel to try my hand at a mundane healer. They both preformed well enough for me to enjoy myself and support the party.

Underground Chemist is absolutely baller, and I love the Heal skill unlock (combine that with Psychic Sensitivity and Believer's Boon+Healing domain power for some ridiculous amounts of temp hitpoints before a big fight).

I had noticed the ridiculous synergy with Resiliency+Multitalented (multiple attempts at stopping death is fairly powerful), but Roll With It is an interesting addition! I'll keep that in mind.

Defensive Roll is the one I meant mate sorry.

At level 10 it means every time you're about to hit 0 or lower hitpoints you make a reflex save to half the damage and, if this damage takes you into the negatives anyway, three times a day you gain 20 temporary hit points. It's a good laugh.

If you like the mundane healer bent check out the healer's satchel from the Healer's Handbook. Gives you a variety of different bonus' which, at the most basic level, makes the skill unlock that much better.

I've built a Scout/Swashbuckler UnRogue running about with a Greatsword and trusting to Resilence/Multitalented and Roll With It to run about the front line. Also went ahead with a Poisoner/Underground Chemist build using the Heal skill unlock and new Healers Satchel to try my hand at a mundane healer. They both preformed well enough for me to enjoy myself and support the party.

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Hey mate, if you're settled on the Rogue Crossbow build I'd suggest the following:

Go for an Unchained Rogue as opposed to Rogue, it's hands down better for what you need, with a more accessible Sneak Attack and Debilitating Injury. More importantly Unchained Rogues gain Rogues Edge which grants Skill Unlocks at Level 5/10/15 and 20.

The Stealth Skill Unlock at level 5 reduces your sniper penalty by 10 which, when combined with the Expert Sniper feat also reducing sniping penalties by 10, means you'll be sniping with no negatives by level 5. Taking Master Sniper as a Combat Trick at level 6 means you can fire a pair of bolts as a sniping check.

Beyond that concentrate on your Sneak Attacks with talents, look at grabbing Minor Magic / Major Magic for utility and stuff like Favored Terrain and Camouflage for a spot Stealth bonus'.

As a quick one, is the Gallant compatible with the Courtly Knight (Which only loses Tactician and it's follow on's.).

Luthorne wrote:
Corbynsonn wrote:

As someone who's only really interested in mundane healing at the moment, could someone give me an idea of what the Healer's Satchel magic item actually does?

If it's relatively lacklustre I'll skip this book for now.

The vanilla version acts like a healer's kit that replenished itself every day, and allows the user to expend uses to increase the amount of damage restored when treating deadly wounds, related to your Wisdom modifier. The specialized version offers four other things to do with Heal checks related to diagnosis, first aid, long-term care, and treatment.

Much appreciated.

As someone who's only really interested in mundane healing at the moment, could someone give me an idea of what the Healer's Satchel magic item actually does?

If it's relatively lacklustre I'll skip this book for now.

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Darche Schneider wrote:
John Compton wrote:

You might appreciate Pathfinder Player Companion: Divine Anthology, which introduces the Medicine subdomain. That option allows one to vastly speed up the longer Heal checks, making options like treat deadly wounds a little more accessible.

Ah, that does help quite a bite there. Now if there was just a way to extract that from the cleric class/healing domain. Particularly for use of that god of pain and torture's trait or Rogues who took the healing skill trick.

It's not exactly mundane but Believer's Boon can give you the Medicine Subdomain's Blessed Surgery power once a day.

To provide a dissenting opinion, their does exist mundane healing. It just requires that you throw a large chunk of your build into it.
All it really requires is heavy investment into Craft (Alchemy) and Heal, access to Skill Unlocks, the Master Alchemist feat with traits like Precision Treatment and Battlefield Surgeon to taste.
So pretty much just an UnRogue then.

Easy access to a cheaper version of items such as Antitoxin/Antiplague as well as a decent selection of other alchemical items that benefit various heal checks through Master Alchemist stacked on top of the ability to heal relatively large amounts of hp with the Heal Skill's skill unlock gives you a decent breadth of ability in treating a large variety of issues.

I mean not as well as spells once they get going but if we compare a Cleric casting Neutralize Poison at the level they'll receive it, assuming average rolls, they can remove a DC 17 poison as a standard action.
An UnRouge dropping a chunk of gold at the issue can, assuming average rolls, provide a +9 bonus to the targets save plus the targets Fort Mod, or DC 19+, as a standard action.

In the same vein looking at Remove Disease at the levels cleric's receive the spell and again assuming average rolls, it's DC 15 as a standard vs DC 19 or a pair of DC 14's both adding Fort mod as an hourly action.
So, not the worst trade in the world though eventually the Clerics blows the mundane heals out of the water with their caster level constantly scaling.

As for hp damage at level 5 the UnRogue, spending an hour, can heal twice the target's level in Hp (10), plus the UnRogues Wis mod, and two ability points worth of damage once or twice a day.
At level 5 the Cleric can cure, as a standard action and assuming average rolls, 18hp with a Cure Serious Wounds.

Derklord wrote:

Unchained Rogue is only allowed to select talents printed in Unchained, talents in the list of older talents that can be used unaltered, and newer ones that say they cna be used with UnRogue (although few GMs will disallow rogue talents released post-Unchained that don't specifically mention UnRogue).

Offensive Defense got replaced by the "Disoriented" Debilitating Injury.

I like Emboldening Strike from Blood of Shadows - Rogue has the worst possible base saving throws, so any bonus is nice.

On a side note, I just noticed that Emboldening Strike stacks with itself, just like Offensive Defense does. WTF Paizo? Most GM will probably veto that, but still...

Circumstance bonus' cannot stack with each other if they come from the same source as far as I know.

A fun build I've enjoyed with my local group is a Scout/Underground Chemist UnRogue (VMC Alchemist).

Bit convoluted for sure but taking the "Bomber" Talent combined with the Underground Chemist's "Precise Splash Weapons" class feature and the VMC Alchemists "Bombs" class feature allows you to deal sneak attack damage plus your intelligence modifier with your bombs, of which at level 15 you'll have 7+(Intx2).

Wrap up all of this with the Scouts "Skirmisher" feature to move 10' and SA and you'll be doing (8D6+8D6+Int Mod) with all the SA talents and Debilitating Injuries you can imagine in a splash.

It's in no way effective. But it makes me giggle.

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A Spiked Gauntlet is a Light Piercing weapon. Combo it up with the Shield Gauntlet Style from the Weapon Masters Handbook and punch people with style.

Easiest way for a Slayer I've found is Rapid Shot at 2 through your access to Ranger Combat Styles, Expert Sniper at 3, Signature Skill: Stealth at 5 and Master Sniper at 7. Gives you a pair of SA ranged attacks, the first gaining your Slayer level as a bonus to damage all at no penalty to stealth. Throw in Accomplished Sneak Attacker and any SA talents you can grab from your Slayer Talents. With the Halfling pick you can swap Signature Skill for Accomplished Sneak Attacker to get some extra damage.

Somewhat of a cheeky thread here. I saw mention of a new Fighter Archetype being released in a coming Player Companion that had Inspire Courage as a class feature.

Can't find the damn thing again now so was wondering if anyone had any clue which Player Companion the things in? Thanks again and happy holidays.

In regards to the Ranger VMC granting Favored Enemy at level 7 and Favored Terrain at level 11, does the bonus granted by both abilities increase at the listed levels?

That is to say only the bonus not the number of Favored Terrains/Enemies.

CBDunkerson wrote:
Sharkles wrote:
I just noticed feats called Acute Shot and Superior Sniper, which seem odd because they don't sound that magic-y. What do they do?

Acute Shot applies to ranged attacks with a magic bonus and allows you to deduct range penalties from damage rather than to hit and apply sneak attack dice up to the magic bonus of the attack against targets with partial concealment.

Superior Sniper is a Rogue talent, which gives the Expert Sniper feat from Dirty Tactics Toolbox... which reduces sniping penalties by 10.

Anything that says it works for UnRogues?

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I feel like people are approaching this the wrong way.

As opposed to looking at the balance of the feat across the entire RPG line, Martial vs Caster and all that, the feat should be examined with an eye to internal balance within Martial classes alone.

Most people tend to agree that both Two-Handed builds and Two-Weapon builds trump Sword and Board builds and this feat removes the downsides of the former builds while replacing the benefits the latter build had over the other two.

The question then becomes do other feats in the book help push the Sword and Board build just as Unhindered Shield benefits the other two.

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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

It was never the intent that Ironclad Reactions would negate an attack. It's a reaction, and a reaction to an event (however fast) occurs after the event.

It's a great way to boost mobility, and it can save you from a lot of anguish if a foe or group of foes have you in a bad spot, but it doesn't negate the attack, which we note must be successful for you to use the ability.

Sorry to ask Mr.Stephens but can you clarify the Spring-Heel Style interactions between requiring a Move action and Spring Attack/Shot On The Run. Is it an oversight or is it a way to allow users of the Style to gain benefits when not utilizing Spring Attack/Shot on the Run

Speaking of Combat Tricks, any stand out additions?

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Skeld, PDF Prophet wrote:

I'm done for the evening.


Awsome as always Skeld.

Love you guys for posting all this.
In summary, what new Combat Stamina tricks do we see? What are the Armour and Shield mastery feats like and finally can someone summarize the various Shield styles.

And a question to the development team, to get this out of the way before I get my hopes up:
Unlike Gloves of Dueling, which grants a +2 to bonus to Weapon Training, Sash of the War Champion treats his Fighter level as 4 levels higher, how would that interact with Advanced Armour Training?

Unfortunately not mate. VMC functions by adding class features to the parent class. So a Cavalier (VMC Fighter) wouldn't count as a Fighter for feats and the like which specifically call for Fighter levels but would interact with feats and the like which interact with Fighter class features granted through the VMC. For example Improved Bravery with Bravery, Sash of the Champion with both Bravery and Armour training and Duelist Gloves with Weapon Training.

So I'm curious, since he's been mentioned, what are some of the benefits the obedience of Kurgess gives to Sentinels and the like?

Could I get some information on the Battle Scion Skald?

BlackJack Weasel wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
The first VMC ability doesn't really do anything aside from make it so you have to pick the same school if you have an option in a class where you have to pick a school (like that arcanist archetype) and determining what school you get the ability from at 7th level.
ah okay, never mind then. I'll have to think of some other way to get my empowered shocking grasp sneak attacker.

To clarify you would gain both the Intense Spells and Force Missile powers at level 7. So if you can wait that long without the +1/2/3 damage you'll be all sorts of fine.

If you went that route it could be better to go for the Admixture Sub-School. Let's you change the damage type of your Shocking Grasp 3+Int times a day as opposed to giving you Force Missile.

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Mark Seifter wrote:
Corbynsonn wrote:
Oh god Battle Scion has me all in the vapors.
The battle scion's "Once and Future Scion" power is indeed pretty cool. Hmm, I wonder who that other archetype with the "Skald of Twists and Turns" power could be based off? :D

Stop teasing damn you. :D

Still, book is a guarantee for me.

Oh god Battle Scion has me all in the vapors.

Changelings, being the offspring of witches, are always female however.

A Drill Sergeant (VMC Cavalier/Bard) grabbing Fighters Tactics with the AWT feat at level 5. Teamwork Feats and Support galore.

Marroar Gellantara wrote:

You know maybe I shouldn't complain about stereotypes when the person attacking people because of them is also enforcing a stereotype.

The cleric of atheism should be true neutral. If your character is against both objective physical manifestations of evil, good, law, chaos, and neutrality, then I would think that sticks you in the middle on PF's objective morality scale regardless of the moral weight you would give the concept in the real world.

I disagree, to use Ashiel's example, an individual dedicated to an ideological ideal of Atheism draws power from the notion of self and humanity as a whole, or more particularly, the notion of humanity that most fits their world view.

To apply another trope of an Atheist, on the opposite spectrum from Ashiel's example, an individual dedicated to the same philosophical arguments of self and humanity could be an amoral or evil individual who, upon coming to the personal-realization that there exists no true gods, disavows moral responsibilities from their actions and instead seeks to benefit as much as possible on the material plane, disregarding any divine punishment that may fall on their head after they pass on.

This individual would most likely register as NE. To this end I would argue that if the worship of ideals, like the worship of gods, requires an alignment position within one step of the concept it would be the Atheistic ideal that would be TN, as this allows the most variation across the spectrum for any individual to fit their personal morality. If ideals don't require a specific alignment then all the better.

This got a little off-topic. Or maybe it got a little meta-topic.

Anyway, I feel like a Cleric of Atheism would be an alignment step away TN in any direction, being as how there's not any overarching outsider enforcing particular notions of godliness or wickedness in any real way. As to domains I'd suggest:

-Knowledge (Education)
-Rune (Legislation)

Knowledge/Education as a means of spreading the truth regarding what the Cleric perceives to be false-gods, Liberation to enact said truth and Rune/Legislation as a means of promoting a secular society away from the influences of said false-gods.

This works as a framework without the attachment of some of the more... difficult concepts proposed by others, such as Community and Artifice.

Ashiel wrote:
It might not even be an evil outsider group. Most deities are morally dubious, even the good ones. In Golarion, where you can get pissed drunk and go fumble around in a dungeon for a while and emerge a god, it's not really like being a deity means anything.

I'm not saying that the outsider group is evil because it dislikes deities, I was asking if there wasn't already an Evil Outsider group that follows the ideals I spoke about.

Having looked it up I think it was the Asura? Maybe not.

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Corbynsonn wrote:

It's always fun to see the lads and lasses rush out to claim, in rotation, the old trope of Atheism not being a belief.

Whether it's a belief or not isn't really the issue. It's just a concept that gets rather sketchy when you ask questions like . "Who do you pray to in order to get spells each day?" What are you channeling the power of when you heal your comrades or scorch the undead?" And anyone who tries to bring up Thomas Covenant is going to get smacked with the Rolled Up Newspaper of Justice.

There's already precedent for Clerics receiving power from certain ideals, the lack of belief in godhood may not itself grant the Cleric power, but perhaps the Cleric would be granted said power from other groups interested in arguing against the existence of gods?

Isn't there also an Evil outsider group who hold that the gods are either inferior to themselves or downright not actual gods? Wouldn't be too much of a stretch to argue a Cleric receiving powers from those groups.

Ashiel wrote:

Well not believing in Bigfoot is neither a belief nor ideology. It's the same thing.

EDIT: Or the loch ness monster.
Or the tooth fairy.
Or Santa Clause.
Or Rumplestilzkin.
Or trolls.
Or dragons.
Or 99.99999999999999% of our hobby.

I now found the church of not believing in make believe?
I can be the pope of the church of not believing that dragons actually exist.

Disbelief does not an ideology make, good sir.

'Preciate the example.

What we have here is, as I said, the notion of atheism as simple lack of belief, thus having no overarching ideology attached to it. If you hold that atheism is as thus then you'll struggle to make a concept out of it.

If however you argue that Atheism is, instead, the belief that these entities do not exist, then you have more leeway to construct a Cleric type character.

As demonstrated people will, apparently, disagree with said concept but there's enough of a discussion on the subject to give you means to interpret it either as an ideology or whatever you'd term the original example.

It's always fun to see the lads and lasses rush out to claim, in rotation, the old trope of Atheism not being a belief.

Still at the OP, feel free to interpret the ideology as you'd like as people tend to do. If you hold that Atheism is not a belief and in instead defined by what you're not then you'd struggle to create a Cleric out of that. If you instead hold that Atheism is a belief system in of itself then it's easier to create a Cleric of that specific ideal.

Sure you'll most likely have people who claim your concept is faulty, but honestly it'd be a boring world if we all thought alike so go nuts.

I'm hoping for a line of shield style feats that works with the spear weapon group. Not a style line that promotes a damage or to-hit bonus' but instead one that focuses on control elements.

Something like:
-An ability similar to the Polearm weapon trick to use a two-handed spear as a one-handed spear.
-One-handed Pushing Assault
-Interactions with Combat Reflexes
-Lunge interactions

Anything that bridges the gap between offensive and defensive tactical play honestly.

Darche Schneider wrote:

Nah Worst archetype I think goes to Crossbow fighter. Since two of the class features you get are because they throught it would be too powerful to just give you full damage when you use a readied action to shoot a crossbow.

Cause clearly, dropping a character who could easily get 4~5 attacks a round as a full round action, to a single round would deal too much damage.

Overwatch Style from the Weapon Masters Handbook helps makes up for a lot of the issues with Crossbow Fighter being so reliant on readied actions. Hell make it a Crossbow Fighter (VMC Rogue) for all the interactions.

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