Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Faiths (PFRPG)

****½ (based on 5 ratings)
Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Faiths (PFRPG)
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Across the Inner Sea region, few things are as ubiquitous as faith and religion. However, among the myriad nations and cultures, worship and devotion isn't limited to only the area's most widely acknowledged deities. Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Faiths sheds light on 15 lesser-known deities who nonetheless offer great power to their followers, granting spiritual might to any characters willing to offer devotion. Inside this book you'll find details about these gods' histories, dogmas, and practices, all designed to enrich your campaigns with divine lore, including:

  • In-depth articles about the Inner Sea region's more esoteric divinities, from Achaekek, god of divine punishment and patron of the deadly Red Mantis assassins, to Besmara, the lusty queen of pirates and tamer of the fierce beasts that dwell beneath the waves, to Milani, vehement enemy of tyranny and slavery, to Naderi, goddess of romantic tragedy and forbidden love.
  • Guidance on how to play an adventurer or create an NPC devoted to a particular god, including the clothing, texts, and holidays sacred to the faithful, as well as aphorisms common among their ranks.
  • Obediences and boons that can empower all worshipers of each divinity, especially those with levels in prestige classes devoted to their faith.
  • Details about each divinity's standing in the Great Beyond, as well as a look into the gods' personal extraplanar realms.
  • Insight into the fascinating creatures that serve each divinity, including the unique astral deva who heralds Kurgess, the Strong Man, and the veiled trumpet archon who heralds Sivanah, the Seventh Veil.

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Faiths is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and Pathfinder campaign setting, but can easily be adapted to any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-825-0

Note: Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Faiths is an extra-large volume, totalling 96-pages rather than the standard 64-page format.

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscription.

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****½ (based on 5 ratings)

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Great follow-up to Inner Sea Gods

*****

Read my full review on Of Dice and Pen.

I love this book just as much as I love Inner Sea Gods, and it has seen a lot of use in my games. It is full of evocative and flavourful information that can form the basis of all kinds of characters and adventures. I particularly like that it uses its full space for this information and doesn’t feel the need to include numerous new feats and spells. I now have ideas for about fifteen new campaigns that I will probably never have time to run, but it’s fun to have the ideas anyway!


A Great Addition

*****

While the book is basically Inner Sea Gods: Part 2, I'd argue it is an even better addition to the system. While Inner Sea Gods updated the old AP articles and put them in one place for people to find, this book serves to breath life into many of the minor deities of the Inner Sea that hadn't gotten one before.

Honestly, it has given me more ideas for characters, villains, and adventures than anything I can recently recall. Whether you are more often a player or GM, if you find deities and religions at all compelling I'd say this is the #1 campaign setting book you should pick up this year.


Please, sir, may I have some more?

****( )

I want to add my voice to the other positive reviews. Inner Sea Gods is also my favorite book that Paizo has published. ISF is a good book, but it is not as great as ISG. That may be due to constraints of length or other factors to which I am not privy.

I'm writing this review because I have read that these reviews help the developers know what to develop. I would very much like to see the deities and their cults receive more attention and more detail, so here we go.

The Good:

The lore this book contains is, without a doubt, the best part. If you don't care about the origins and motivations of deities and those who follow them, buy a different book. ISF, got me excited about deities like Besmara who I never before found interesting, while also giving me rich details about deities I already found interesting. Her section made me want to be a pirate. I think that's the highest praise that I can give as a consumer. The author(s?) of that section painted a vivid enough picture that a new perspective became compelling.

The Bad:

Some of the Obediences could have been better fleshed out. The best Obediences give you at least two options on how to appease your god: one needs to be something you don't need other people or specific locations. Some of these did not. Nobody wants their divine powers turned off because they couldn't find find someone to whom they could brag or whom they could bully.

Some of the Boons evoked the "who would want that?" (which may be a failure of my imagination and not the design) or "why is that so bad?" (Seriously, Mahathallah has better illusionists than Sivanah. Does that seem right to anyone?) Also, if you give a boon that effects Channel Energy, then let Exalted levels stack with Cleric levels for that ability. Let Sarenrae's exalted boon be your guide. If you don't, them you make that boon suck for your Exalted and unlikely to ever come up if you go straight cleric given how late access boons are without the appropriate prestige classes.

However many of the other Boons were good. (Besmara lets her evangelists summon sea monsters she has bullied and even coerce people themselves with her divine charisma. How cool is that?)

Some alignment appropriate deities did not have paladin or anti-paladin codes. Ghaulander is CE and is a god of disease. There is no doubt in my mind that he has anti-paladins and that they have specific beliefs. One of my favorite parts of ISG was the alternate paladin codes. Paladins have codes tailored to their patron makes so much sense, and makes them much more fun to play. You guys struck gold with that innovation. Keep mining it.

There were some editing and grammar errors, but it only confused or annoyed me a couple of times. It's only a minor complaint.

The Odd:

Achaeckek is now a full god (with 5 Domains) rather than a demigod. It seems a bad call on the pantheon's part to let him get bigger than a demigod. He is an assassin after all. :-p

What Improvements I Would Like:

ISG was so great because it gave feats and spells specific to each religion. This book could have greatly benefitted from such additions along with the missing Heralds. I know some of these gods got feats in ISG, but I want more. I understand that there might have been space constraints. I would have paid more. If this book had been ISG Volume 2, I would be giving it 5 stars, and want to give it 6. Seriously, I would be grateful to have the honor of giving you $10 more.

TL;DNR?

Consumers: buy this book for the excellent lore, but temper your expectations: many of the boons are either not as cool or not as thematic as they were in ISG.

Developers: please make more books in this vein, but more in the style of ISG. ISG seemed to sell well. You guys have a market here. Please exploit it and take our money. It's not like you don't have more gods to detail.


Inner Sea Gods Minus A Star

****( )

Honestly, how much you will like/use this book depends on the mileage you got out of Inner Sea Gods.
Take whatever rating you would put Inner Sea Gods and subtract a single star: That is the rating of this book.
I LOVE ISG, so this book is still of great value to me.
However, it falls a bit short of it's predecessor.

Why's that?
Each minor god get's the ISG treatment, but only to a degree.
*We open up with a Deific Obedience and some boons, all of which are flavorful but many of which are near impossible to complete regularly (Good luck finding two unblemished white roses and a nearby stream every day you adventure).
*We then get a sidebar about the god, paladin and antipaladin codes for the god, but oddly not for every god that could have paladins/antipaladins (What makes an antipaladin of Ghlaunder special?).
*The next portion is fairly straitforward:
Understanding the God, the Church, Temples and Shrines, *picture of a worshiper*,a Priest's Role, Adventures, Clothing, Holy Text, *Picture of the deity*, Holidays, Aphorisms, Relations with Other Religeons, Realm, Planar Allies. Nothing too odd.
*Variant casting abilities for the faithful are mentioned at the tail end of A Priest's Role, except for the dragon gods, who have none mentioned.
*Heralds for those who have been printed in Adventure Paths (Brigh, Milani, Besmara, Zyphus) are referenced to the appropriate AP; other heralds are described but not stated.
*The sidebars from ISG about deity appropriate spells, items, feats, etc is completely absent.
*Mechanical resources beyond Deific Obedience are also absent; players looking for faith specific magic items will need to dig through ISG (though it looks like each minor god does get at least one magic item there) and conjurists looking to invoke their god's servitor race or herald will need to work with their GM more than Core Deities.
These points all drag down the overall usefulness of the book.

That said, this book DOES provide some wonderful background information of each minor god.
no longer will we be tormented with figuring out just what to call followers of Zyphus (the answer is Zyphens).
Dahak is fleshed out into something other than a draconic parody of Rovagug.
The mysterious Alseta and Naderi are finally unveiled! (The mysterious Sivanah is still mysterious. That's her shtick).

Oh, and Achaekek assassinates another building...


Great Info on More Deities

*****

Inner Sea Gods is perhaps my favorite campaign setting book for Pathfinder, so seeing several of the "lesser" deities get the same treatment in Inner Sea Faiths was very exciting for me. The book contains deific obediences and evangelist/exalted/sentinel boons for each of 15 deities, and aside from that, the book contains pure setting info for the gods. I do like deity-specific items and spells, but I was more excited to see information about the history and worship of these deities. Alseta and Naderi were the ones I was most interested in, but I was also excited to see more about Achaekek, Sivanah, Hanspur, and Groetus. There's at least one deity of every alignment, so there should be something for a variety of play choices.


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3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
Feros wrote:
FedoraFerret wrote:
I'm running Skull and Shackles right now, so it'd be cool if someone filled me in on Besmara's Obedience and Boons.
** spoiler omitted **...
Her ship also really likes sex.

Well shiver me timbers.

Silver Crusade

Feros wrote:
FedoraFerret wrote:
I'm running Skull and Shackles right now, so it'd be cool if someone filled me in on Besmara's Obedience and Boons.
** spoiler omitted **...

Thanks for posting that Feros. I'm waiting to buy the PDF on this one, so I haven't seen this stuff yet.

I would seriously consider taking Deific Obedience on my cleric of Besmara now that I've read that. It's not exactly the most optimized feat possibility, but it's highly flavorful. And as a front line (bad touch) cleric, the AC bonus from AoO's could be useful.

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
djones wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Feros wrote:
FedoraFerret wrote:
I'm running Skull and Shackles right now, so it'd be cool if someone filled me in on Besmara's Obedience and Boons.
** spoiler omitted **...
Her ship also really likes sex.

Well shiver me timbers.

Buy me dinner first.

Silver Crusade

Anything to actually justify making a Sentinel of the best goddess ever aka, Naderi?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Garen Sparrowhawk wrote:
Anything to actually justify making a Sentinel of the best goddess ever aka, Naderi?

Hmm, the First Boon gives you icicle dagger, castigate, or howling agony, Second um... will get back to this... Third Boon let's you use globe of invulnerability on yourself for a number of rounds per day equal to HD.

As for the Second Boon, I think a large part of it got chopped out. It lets you do a cone shaped bane effect (it doesn't actually say the spell but it has effectively the same effect) against foes. But it doesn't mention what action it is to use it, how long it lasts, how many times it can be used per day, or even where the burst is emanated from (I'm assuming from yourself).

*scratches head*


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Well, we can extrapolate from others. Since it's a little less powerful that the exalted 2nd boon, we can place it most likely at 3/day. Bursts default to emanate from the caster, so without any other info that is correct. It is most likely a standard action, as it isn't an emergency use type ability.

Since it seems to be mainly a combat oriented ability, looking at other similar abilities in the book suggest as many rounds as the character using the boon has Hit Dice.

This should be either covered as a FAQ or something, as Campaign Setting books rarely get reprinted and this appears to errata.

Project Manager

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Hmm, it might have gotten chopped (either by me when I edited it down to word count or during dev, but Amanda's much better with mechanics than I am so I'm going to go with it being me...). I'll check with her.

Paizo Employee Developer

9 people marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
Garen Sparrowhawk wrote:
Anything to actually justify making a Sentinel of the best goddess ever aka, Naderi?

Hmm, the First Boon gives you icicle dagger, castigate, or howling agony, Second um... will get back to this... Third Boon let's you use globe of invulnerability on yourself for a number of rounds per day equal to HD.

As for the Second Boon, I think a large part of it got chopped out. It lets you do a cone shaped bane effect (it doesn't actually say the spell but it has effectively the same effect) against foes. But it doesn't mention what action it is to use it, how long it lasts, how many times it can be used per day, or even where the burst is emanated from (I'm assuming from yourself).

*scratches head*

Thanks for the question! This indeed requires a standard action and is a 3/day ability that emanates from the user. The effect lasts a number of rounds equal to your Hit Dice (that part is mentioned in the ability itself).

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

My interpretation may be a bit more liberal than that of Feros. It's probably pro-Naderi bias. ^_^

Supernatural abilities are standard actions unless otherwise specified. (CRB 186)

The bane effect is almost certainly (99.9%) intended to last as long as the staggered effect.

If an effect doesn't list a number of times per day, it can generally be surmised to be usable at will.

Cone-shaped bursts always emanate from the user. (CRB 214 - it's for spells, but I think we can assume a similar guideline here.)

Thoughts?

Sovereign Court

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Aaaaand... cruelly ninjaed by not one, but two staff members.

Crushing.

Paizo Employee Developer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Kalindlara wrote:

My interpretation may be a bit more liberal than that of Feros. It's probably pro-Naderi bias. ^_^

Supernatural abilities are standard actions unless otherwise specified. (CRB 186)

The bane effect is almost certainly (99.9%) intended to last as long as the staggered effect.

If an effect doesn't list a number of times per day, it can generally be surmised to be usable at will.

Cone-shaped bursts always emanate from the user. (CRB 214 - it's for spells, but I think we can assume a similar guideline here.)

Thoughts?

You got it, except the ability is intended to be 3/day.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I got it completely right! Yay me!

:D

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Amanda Hamon Kunz wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Garen Sparrowhawk wrote:
Anything to actually justify making a Sentinel of the best goddess ever aka, Naderi?

Hmm, the First Boon gives you icicle dagger, castigate, or howling agony, Second um... will get back to this... Third Boon let's you use globe of invulnerability on yourself for a number of rounds per day equal to HD.

As for the Second Boon, I think a large part of it got chopped out. It lets you do a cone shaped bane effect (it doesn't actually say the spell but it has effectively the same effect) against foes. But it doesn't mention what action it is to use it, how long it lasts, how many times it can be used per day, or even where the burst is emanated from (I'm assuming from yourself).

*scratches head*

Thanks for the question! This indeed requires a standard action and is a 3/day ability that emanates from the user. The effect lasts a number of rounds equal to your Hit Dice (that part is mentioned in the ability itself).

Okies, thank you (and Price too) for answering ^w^

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Feros wrote:

I got it completely right! Yay me!

:D

*pats head*

Good Not-Wumpums.

Paizo Employee Developer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
Okies, thank you (and Price too) for answering ^w^

Certainly!


SOON.


Skimmed the PDF, initial mechanical impression is that the boons are generally awful and very underpowered compared to those that have gone before, especially the demonic and empyreal obediences.

More to say in detail later (Sivanah is LOL bad power-wise), but I wonder if this is an intentional stealth nerf to new obediences as a matter of policy. I'll freely admit some of the earlier published ones are easily the best late game feat choices in the game.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Maybe that is why these deities are "lesser" deities? Their obediences do not give bonuses as good as those of the "greater" deities.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Aside from Full-Gods and Demi-Gods Pathfinder doesn't have "greater" and "lesser" deities or power ratings therein.


They're "real" deities unlike the demigod demon lords and empyreal lords, and all of those get much better stuff. You can get +4 on a save (often a very important one), and eventually a 7th or enhanced 6th level spell, and a capping 9th level spell from their obediences. Or you can get the Sivanah garbage which is just laughably less powerful than that stuff.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

No, I was just suggesting that their crappier boons was the reason that they were less popular than the "big 20" -- not that they were any less powerful.


Oh. Upon further thought the unitary Demonic/Celestial obediences are generally much more powerful than the triple splits they introduced with Inner Sea Gods.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

I thought some of these did a much better job than the ISG ones... and as for power level discrepancy, Shelyn's sentinel and exalted boons come to mind. I'm also glad these ones aren't as pigeonholed to specific classes as a lot of the ISG ones were.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Does it seem bizarre to anyone else that Evangelists of Milani get not one, not two, but three Charm/Compulsion effects for their spell-like ability choices? The very effects that the 3rd boon is meant to counter?

Charms and Compulsions seem like the opposite of what a CG deity of Freedom and Purity would wield. I can totally see how these effects would aid in a revolution or freeing slaves, but it seems so contrary to Milani's beliefs.

I think buff spells like Bless (which is also a compulsion effect because..?), Aid/Heroism, or Good Hope would be more fitting than Command, Enthrall, and Suggestion.


I think it's clear you're supposed to be using them against oppressors. A Milanite can also chain up their enemies rather than kill or let them go free, it's not weird because chains are used on slaves.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Slithery D wrote:
I think it's clear you're supposed to be using them against oppressors. A Milanite can also chain up their enemies rather than kill or let them go free, it's not weird because chains are used on slaves.

Well sure, you can use these spells to oppose evil if you want to keep them alive, but Milani also does not believe in compromise with evil or tyranny. I think her devoted would be more likely to use force in these sort of situations.

Ignoring that, the spells just don't seem to fit what Milani is all about, either. I would feel the similarly if they gave Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, and Fireball. Just because they can be used against tyranny it doesn't mean they really envelop or exemplify what I feel Milani stands for.


I was a little sad that appeasing Sivanah does not really make one a better illusionist. Apparently, the Dowager of Illusion has that locked down.

Although I cannot recall any of the Obediences that made me hungry to try out these gods mechanically speaking -- like how ISG made me very interested in playing an invoker dedicated to the Rough Beast -- I loved the flavor and the lore this book has.

If the powers that be read threads like this, then I will always buy the stuff you publish about the gods and their boons. Please make more.


Ixos wrote:
I was a little sad that appeasing Sivanah does not really make one a better illusionist. Apparently, the Dowager of Illusion has that locked down.

Mestama also has +2 DC to illusions, but not until the 2nd boon. The Mahathallah obedience has the weird distinction of having the absolutely best up front benefit (three feats in one from the start), but garbage after that. LOL, drug use, sure.


The first hit, as they say, is free.


There appears to be a discrepancy between Inner Sea Faiths and the Inner Sea World Guide. The holiday "Seven Veils" is listed as occurring on Neth 23 in the ISWG, but the entry for Sivanah's holidays in Inner Sea Faiths says that "in most parts of the Inner Sea region, this holiday takes place on 7 Neth."

Based on the descriptions, these seem to be the same holiday and not two holidays with coincidentally the same name in the same month.

Dark Archive

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Normally I'd say that one of these dates is part of a misinformation campaign. But since it's Sivanah, *both* of them are probably fake.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Heh, with her that is very likely :3

Hell Fox be trollin something fierce.


Set wrote:
Normally I'd say that one of these dates is part of a misinformation campaign. But since it's Sivanah, *both* of them are probably fake.

You're assuming that the holiday even exists.

dunnh dunnh dunnnnhhh...!

Project Manager

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The holiday on the 23rd is merely an illusion.


One goddess who had previously left me cold -- Besmara -- is now much more interesting. I loved her origin story and I thought that her boons actually aligned with what she has power over. Goddess of sea monsters actually giving you the ability to summon sea monsters she has bullied? Awesome.

I think it is a shame that Gyronna's Evangelist boons don't have anything that specifically benefits witches. I kept hoping for some awesome evil eye action, or something.

Project Manager

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Rysky wrote:

Heh, with her that is very likely :3

Hell Fox be trollin something fierce.

They see me trollin', they hatin'


2 people marked this as a favorite.

*thinks if see trolls trolling you kill it with fire*

Just not Jessica Price. She's awesome. :)


Wow, the Groetus obedience and boons are all over the place.

The benefit of the obedience is A+ for utility (bonus on all Will saves) and a F on strength (+1). There are other obediences that give +4 on all mind affecting, or enchantment, or illusions, so I think a +2 would have been more appropriate.

Some spell level weirdness on first boons, Confusion as a 3rd, Bestow Curse as a 3rd. I think its been (nearly?) universal that all spells from this ability have been at the highest level when they appear on multiple lists, which would make Bestow Curse wrong (if forgivable), but I don't remember ever seeing a 4th level only spell like Confusion available in 3rd through an Obedience. Nice, I guess.

Evangelist boons are awful. A demonic/celestial obedience gives you a 7th level spell once per day. This one gives you...1d8 temporary HP. If you destroy a corpse. WTF, this has to be the worst boon ever published. The third boon should be equivalent to a 9th level spell if you went demonic/celestial, but here you get a weakened version of Insanity, a 7th level spell.

But the Exalted boons are AMAZING! A+++ Number two gives you a combo of three good defensive spells that last a long time for the ultimate ability to break contact and recover from a fight, and even if they penetrate the effects they might get hit with a round of confusion. Awesome. And the 3rd boon, OMG. Immorality and a fantastic pseudo-contingency ability. If you reach the level you have this boon, you're only going to ever die because you want to.

The Sentinel boons are solid, B+.

I can only conclude, appropriately, that an insane person wrote this grab bag of disparate abilities. Groetus is real, folks.


An error in the Besmara obedience:

Quote:

Coerce Service (Su) You understand and can exhibit the

blatantly charismatic pull of your goddess, convincing others to aid you even if they normally might not. Once per day, when you attempt a Diplomacy check to bribe a target (treat as if you are attempting to improve an NPC’s attitude toward you by one step) or an Intimidate check to coerce a target, you can use this ability to gain Besmara’s blessing to ensure further cooperation. You gain a +4 sacred or profane bonus (of the same type as that provided by your obedience) on the Diplomacy
or Intimidate check, and if you succeed, the target is immediately subject to a geas/quest effect. For as long as the effect lasts, you can concentrate as a standard action and learn whether the target is actively undertaking your orders or actively defying them.

That's a misreading of the geas/quest spell. You cannot defy the order, only be prevented by outside forces or environmental factors from carrying it out, with the accompanying penalties.

I hope this Groetus ability was an editing error:

Quote:
Consume Essence (Su) As Groetus will one day consume all existence, so do you seek to consume other mortals. Once per day, you can consume the essence of a dead creature. You must touch the target corpse, which can attempt a Fortitude saving throw (DC = 10 + 1/2 your Hit Dice + your Charisma modifier). If it fails this saving throw, the target is destroyed as per disintegrate, and you gain 1d8 temporary hit points. These temporary hit points last for a number of hours equal to your Hit Dice.

Either someone thinks that disintegrating corpses is worth a 2nd boon, or they think that temp HP worse than the second level False Life spell is worth a 2nd boon. Ugh.

Liberty's Edge

Slithery D wrote:
Some spell level weirdness on first boons, Confusion as a 3rd, Bestow Curse as a 3rd. I think its been (nearly?) universal that all spells from this ability have been at the highest level when they appear on multiple lists, which would make Bestow Curse wrong (if forgivable), but I don't remember ever seeing a 4th level only spell like Confusion available in 3rd through an Obedience. Nice, I guess.

Confusion is 3rd level for Bards, actually.

Paizo Employee Contributor—Canadian Maplecakes

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Jessica Price wrote:
They see me trollin', they hatin'

... they tradin'

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Slithery D wrote:

Wow, the Groetus obedience and boons are all over the place.

The benefit of the obedience is A+ for utility (bonus on all Will saves) and a F on strength (+1). There are other obediences that give +4 on all mind affecting, or enchantment, or illusions, so I think a +2 would have been more appropriate.

Some spell level weirdness on first boons, Confusion as a 3rd, Bestow Curse as a 3rd. I think its been (nearly?) universal that all spells from this ability have been at the highest level when they appear on multiple lists, which would make Bestow Curse wrong (if forgivable), but I don't remember ever seeing a 4th level only spell like Confusion available in 3rd through an Obedience. Nice, I guess.

Evangelist boons are awful. A demonic/celestial obedience gives you a 7th level spell once per day. This one gives you...1d8 temporary HP. If you destroy a corpse. WTF, this has to be the worst boon ever published. The third boon should be equivalent to a 9th level spell if you went demonic/celestial, but here you get a weakened version of Insanity, a 7th level spell.

For the Third Boon as you said confusion is a 3rd level spell, but insanity is a 7th, and this one has an increasing DC rather than spells which tend to be static.

And for the Second, while 1d8 isn't a lot it's the disintegrate that's nice. No raise dead or resurrection for that poor bastard. Very cinematic too.


The Insanity effect is absolutely worse than the spell. The spell has a Medium range instead of 30', and the DC is 17 + your casting stat, and can be heightened or boosted by Spell Focus if you want to, as well as being potentially subject to useful metamagic like Persistent Spell. The boon insanity effect might go as high as 20 + Charisma (depending on whether you get it as a prestige early access or at level 20 you might get it lower), but that's not so great if your casting stat isn't Charisma or you have Spell Focus or other boosters.

The one additional method to remove it adds insult to injury, but doesn't actually matter.

The Demonic/Celestial obediences that I use as the baseline for what I expect of deific obediences do sometimes give an effect less than 9th level, but then they apply metamagic or some other booster of additional effects. So I'd have expected Insanity as the spell 3/day, or 1/day Persistent Spell effect on Insanity.

I"ll admit that a lot of the Deific Obedience boons (and a minority of Demonic and Celestial ones) do go for weird non-spell effects that are hard to compare to a 9th level spell. Most of them are really bad (many worse than this Groetus Evangelist 3rd boon), a rare few are good, the Groetus Exalted 3rd boon is among the very best.

As far as the 2nd boon, again, my baseline is a 7th level spell once per day. Disintegrate is a 6th level spell that effects anything and can damage living creatures, not just destroy corpses and give (LOL) 1d8 HP in return. This is absolutely a fail.

Given how bad Evangelist is here vs. the excellent Exalted advantages, I think this must be metacommentary on the futility of trying to evangelize for Groetus.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Would I take Insanity as a spell? Probbaly not.

Would I take Insanity as an ability that doesn't take up my resources? Sure.

You want everything to have equal strengths when compared to everything else of its kind? That's fine.

I prefer flavor over numbers. Nuking a corpse so it's allies can't raise it or cast breath of life or similar abilities on it? Pretty friggin cool. Especially if you're playing a class that doesn't normally get abilities or spells that let you do these things.


Thurston Hillman wrote:
Jessica Price wrote:
They see me trollin', they hatin'

... they tradin'

Or regulating.


For months I had been looking forward to finding out what the Kurgess Obedience boon would be, only to find out that it is a sad

spoiler:
+2 to Acrobatics and Climb.
That's worse than the Athletic Feat that doesn't have any prereqs.

It's too bad Gorum already had the cool Strength check boosting mechanic, because that seems like it would have matched Kurgess much better.

Silver Crusade

For those who play Pathfinder Society, this book was just added to the Additional Resources, and almost everything is allowed:

Quote:
Obediences: All deific obediences in this book are legal for play except Gyronna's. An evangelist of Achaekek who qualifies for that deity's third boon can purchase a mask of the mantis as if it were a legal item; Misc.: All variant spellcasting options in this book are legal for play. All alternate paladin codes are legal for play.


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It seems to me like Gyronna and Zyphus' obediences and the general behavior of their worshipers would lead to said people frequently ending up on the receiving side of street violence. Only so much passive-aggressive nonsense people are willing to tolerate...

Liberty's Edge Developer

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Fromper wrote:

For those who play Pathfinder Society, this book was just added to the Additional Resources, and almost everything is allowed:

Quote:
Obediences: All deific obediences in this book are legal for play except Gyronna's. An evangelist of Achaekek who qualifies for that deity's third boon can purchase a mask of the mantis as if it were a legal item; Misc.: All variant spellcasting options in this book are legal for play. All alternate paladin codes are legal for play.

Gyronna's faithful will not be swift in forgetting this slight, Pathfinder support team! You shall rue the day!!!


So I'm curious, since he's been mentioned, what are some of the benefits the obedience of Kurgess gives to Sentinels and the like?

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