Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Races (PFRPG)

I just hope there will be some really interesting stuff both fluff and crunch wise for the non-core races that will get some love in this book.

Please, please give halflings a racial trait for low-light vision!

It´s so overdue and would elevate the race greatly!
They urgently need more means to survive and compete with all those other races and freaks like wayangs, goblins, humans, etc.

That would be nice, but you can get low-light vision right now through the Blood of Dragons Trait (a Bloodline Trait from Ultimate Campaign).

I'm really hoping for the inclusion of Lizardfolk. So far all of the allowed reptilian races are serpentine. An expanded version of Grippli would be nice, too.

Hayato Ken wrote:

Please, please give halflings a racial trait for low-light vision!

It´s so overdue and would elevate the race greatly!
They urgently need more means to survive and compete with all those other races and freaks like wayangs, goblins, humans, etc.

That would be nice, but you can get low-light vision right now through the Blood of Dragons Trait (a Bloodline Trait from Ultimate Campaign).

I'm really hoping for the inclusion of Lizardfolk. So far all of the allowed reptilian races are serpentine. An expanded version of Grippli would be nice, too.

Uh have that book but didn´t see the trait.

Uh have that book but didn´t see the trait.
...

Blood of Dragons is in Ultimate Campaign, Bloodline Race Traits, p62

or in the PRD here:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/characterBackground/tra its.html

Races that will be in here, at least as of a couple of months ago;)
Human
Elf
Dwarf
Half-Elf
Half-Orc
Halfling
Gnome
Aasimar
Tiefling
Goblin
Kobold
Catfolk
Dhampir
Strix
Fechling
Android

It was mention there would be sections for Aliens, Dragon Empire races, and Genie-kin.

Also there will not be any Monkey Goblins:(

I am sure we will get stuff for
Orc
Drow
Duergar
Svirfneblin
Gillmen
Tengu

I hope we will also get
Ghoran
Changling
Merfolk
Ratfolk
Grippli
Vishkanya

Of course there will be information on aliens - elves are most certainly in this book! :)

I already said there will be elves and aliens. but the aliens(along with dragon empire races and genie-kin) have been put in one section.

Aasimars are overpowered, not the other way around, IMO. And the extra heritages, particularly in a setting that was explicitly trying to avoid the Greyhawk/Realms-ish trend of 'an elf for everything', just made things worse.

Most of the other PC races end up around a +2. It might be, like humans, half elves and half orcs, a single +2, or like dwarves, elves, halflings, tieflings, catfolk, dhampir, fetchlings, nagaji, wayangs, etc. a +2/+2/-2, but it still ends up with +2 when the math is done.

Races that break away from that, like aasimar, (original) suli and hobgoblins, tend to be a tad overly good (although they updated suli in the Advanced Race Guide to a more standard +2/+2/-2 format). Races that have less than that, like goblins, kobolds and orcs, tend to be a bit weak, and, in the case of races with multiple negative stats, like orcs, especially, puts, IMO, too much of a limit on their viable class options. (And, to the shock of no one, the 'good races' are usually going to be mechanically superior to the 'evil races' because nothing says 'big damn hero' like being the big bully in the playground, smacking around the little guys.)

Gating off some of the aasimar 'good stuff' (such as resistances or SLAs) behind a heritage feat might put them on a more even footing with races like humans, elves, etc.

I've tried to solve that in my home game by applying a draconic reduction to the aasimar racial traits, so that they end up with a 10 RP build, including a -2 to Con in most cases (something which the 3e conversion of the 2e race seems to have skipped over). "In most cases" because I am a fan of differentiating different racial heritages, so I've kept the variations (although they have racial ability score adjustments which are different from those in the Blood of Angels book). And I re-did the tiefling (basic and variants) in a similar fashion.

While I'm not a fan of non-humans having a completely free menu when it comes to racial ability score adjustments, I am open to there being a couple of variations. For example, my elves can choose between Dex +2, Int +2, Con -2, or Dex +2, Int +2, Wis -2. Similarly, my dwarves can choose between Con +2, Wis +2, Cha -2, or Con +2, Wis +2, and Dex -2. I simply got tired of the fact that elves were at a disadvantage when it came to melee builds and dwarves when it came to being diplomats/face builds. I might do something similar with gnomes and halflings if a player decides to try one out as a PC.

I already said there will be elves and aliens. but the aliens(along with dragon empire races and genie-kin) have been put in one section.

I meant that with a joking tone. Maybe I need to find better ways of conveying that.

Also let me clarify that aliens, dragon empire races, and genie-kin each get there own section not that they were all put into one section:)

While I'm not a fan of non-humans having a completely free menu when it comes to racial ability score adjustments, I am open to there being a couple of variations. For example, my elves can choose between Dex +2, Int +2, Con -2, or Dex +2, Int +2, Wis -2. Similarly, my dwarves can choose between Con +2, Wis +2, Cha -2, or Con +2, Wis +2, and Dex -2. I simply got tired of the fact that elves were at a disadvantage when it came to melee builds and dwarves when it came to being diplomats/face builds. I might do something similar with gnomes and halflings if a player decides to try one out as a PC.

I love variety, so that totally works for me, and I do something similar.

It would be nice to have more then one race with a dex penalty for there racial mods.

I... I don't wanna pay any more mooo-huuu-huuu-neeee~!

Q.Q

(... but I'm gonna.)

Fingers crossed for an elf subrace that's a little more friendly to melee classes. Wild elves anyone?

Fingers crossed for an elf subrace that's a little more friendly to melee classes. Wild elves anyone?

Why aren't elves friendly to melee classes? The Con penalty is a little bothersome, but it is for anyone. Meanwhile, the Dex bonus lets them get some use out of Armor Training or mithril, and between the finessable/martialized elven weapons or just upping Strength, they've always done fine for me.

Anyway, just curious. :)

Kudaku wrote:

Fingers crossed for an elf subrace that's a little more friendly to melee classes. Wild elves anyone?

Why aren't elves friendly to melee classes? The Con penalty is a little bothersome, but it is for anyone. Meanwhile, the Dex bonus lets them get some use out of Armor Training or mithril, and between the finessable/martialized elven weapons or just upping Strength, they've always done fine for me.

Anyway, just curious. :)

First of all let me say that the boost in Dex is great! However, the constitution penalty makes you more fragile than most other races and the intelligence bonus is only really attractive to medium BAB classes such as the magus, the alchemist and the investigator. There's a big trope for elf fighter-types and there's ample support for it in the rules with the curve blade or the elven branched spear, but the constitution penalty makes going into the thick of things less than appealing.

The elf racial traits tend to push magic pretty hard, with things like Elven Magic, Arcane Focus, Dreamspeaker, Envoy, and Lightbringer. Conversely martial elves get Eternal Grudge, which is handy if you're doing a dwarf or orc-heavy campaign but otherwise a little underwhelming.

I see more half-elves with Ancestral Arms do the elven warrior thing than actual elves, which makes me a little sad.

Kalindlara wrote:

Kudaku wrote:

Fingers crossed for an elf subrace that's a little more friendly to melee classes. Wild elves anyone?

Why aren't elves friendly to melee classes? The Con penalty is a little bothersome, but it is for anyone. Meanwhile, the Dex bonus lets them get some use out of Armor Training or mithril, and between the finessable/martialized elven weapons or just upping Strength, they've always done fine for me.

Anyway, just curious. :)

First of all let me say that the boost in Dex is great! However, the constitution penalty makes you more fragile than most other races and the intelligence bonus is only really attractive to medium BAB classes such as the magus, the alchemist and the investigator. There's a big trope for elf fighter-types and there's ample support for it in the rules with the curve blade or the elven branched spear, but the constitution penalty makes going into the thick of things less than appealing.

The elf racial traits tend to push magic pretty hard, with things like Elven Magic, Arcane Focus, Dreamspeaker, Envoy, and Lightbringer. Conversely martial elves get Eternal Grudge, which is handy if you're doing a dwarf or orc-heavy campaign but otherwise a little underwhelming.

I see more half-elves with Ancestral Arms do the elven warrior thing than actual elves, which makes me a little sad.

I see. I still wouldn't call them "unfriendly" (I've tried to play a gnome barbarian!), but that's just me being picky. :)

They have the race trait Warrior of Old, though! Which... is for initiative. sigh

Let me just say, then, that I hope elves get more melee support in this book. :)

I'd love to see more on Orcs and Hobgoblins. Don't know what it is, but those two races are among my favs.

Everyone loves a good villain, and those raves can easily produce some of the best.

I see. I still wouldn't call them "unfriendly" (I've tried to play a gnome barbarian!), but that's just me being picky. :)

They have the race trait Warrior of Old, though! Which... is for initiative. sigh

Let me just say, then, that I hope elves get more melee support in this book. :)

That's an entirely fair point, "unfriendly" might have been too strong a word. Either way, really looking forward to picking this up when it comes out! :)

The only core race information I'm really hoping for is more concrete information of the Elves of the Spire.

Really hoping their is some changeling love in here though ;)

I hope we finally get some info and stats for Sea Elves.

I hope we finally get some info and stats for Sea Elves.

Technically, the Inner Sea World Guide has stats for aquatic elves under the Elves entry. :)

I hope we finally get some info and stats for Sea Elves.

I agree.

The Inner Sea World guide only mentions them, it doesn't give there stats or talk about there culture, appearance, etc. Heck there isn't even any rules in the Advanced Races Guide to make Aquatic Elves under the elves entry.

The Inner Sea World guide only mentions them, it doesn't give there stats or talk about there culture, appearance, etc. Heck there isn't even any rules in the Advanced Races Guide to make Aquatic Elves under the elves entry.

Culture, true.

But go to the page on Elves and read through all the text, please. :)

I see that but it doesn't say what racial traits swim and aquatic/amphibious replace plus you would think they would get different racial mods and some different racial/cultural abilities that fit there environment and culture. Maybe this book will cover that and actually give some information on them.

Will the skinwalkers be in it?

I was wondering about the skinwalkers as well, since they also gain variable statistics.

I hope the skinwalkers will be in there.

There is at least one skinwalker article in the upcoming Wayfinder #13 (free!), due out around this year's PaizoCon. Hopefully that'll help fill the niche/scratch the itch until Inner Sea Races rolls out.

I see that but it doesn't say what racial traits swim and aquatic/amphibious replace plus you would think they would get different racial mods and some different racial/cultural abilities that fit there environment and culture. Maybe this book will cover that and actually give some information on them.

What's in there about aquatic elves is indeed all there is, mechanically, for the baseline aquatic elf. They have the same stat mods and all that as regular elves, just with the differences listed on that page.

That said, I do agree that we've fallen down again and again and again in providing info for the aquatic elves. There'll be a LITTLE bit about them in this book... not a lot, a little.

As a general rule, we aren't interested in giving drastically different stat modifiers within a race's different ethnicities.

So they no longer have that water dependency limitation like they had in the older editions of D&D?

So they no longer have that water dependency limitation like they had in the older editions of D&D?

Nope. And in fact, in Pathfinder, they never did. They have the amphibious quality.

The only core race information I'm really hoping for is more concrete information of the Elves of the Spire.

Really hoping their is some changeling love in here though ;)

The changeling section is sitting on my desk right now, post-discussion-with-Wes, waiting to get its extra love. :-)

GIVE IT TO MEEE

As a general rule, we aren't interested in giving drastically different stat modifiers within a race's different ethnicities.

Does this mean aasimar and tieflings won't get their 6 different ability modifier spreads? Or will they fall out of the "generally" category and be the exception?

The changeling section is sitting on my desk right now, post-discussion-with-Wes, waiting to get its extra love. :-)

Great news to hear :) It's definitely one of those unique Pathfinder races you can't find in any other fantasy games at this point.

Happy to hear that the Changling will get some love.

A race variant system for changelings based on hag lineage like the aasimar/tiefling/dhampir variants would be awesome! There's a bit of support for this already (hulking changeling etc), but the more the merrier. It'd be nice if changelings from different hags were a little more distinguished from one another.

James Jacobs wrote:

As a general rule, we aren't interested in giving drastically different stat modifiers within a race's different ethnicities.

Does this mean aasimar and tieflings won't get their 6 different ability modifier spreads? Or will they fall out of the "generally" category and be the exception?

Aasimars and tieflings are, in my opinion, not one race but several. It never made sense to me why a tiefling with demonic blood would be functionally the same as one with devil blood. Furthermore, by spreading out into different specific races, we put a unique Pathfinder spin on these concepts and that helps us step away from the versions created by TSR, which is also good.

Put another way, the various tieflings and aasimars are NOT ethnicities, but are in fact separate races. There's not going to be enough room in the book to devote all the info we did to them in their 32 page books, so the main tiefling and aasimar sections will indeed mostly talk generally about them without getting into the specifics, but as of the time I'm writing this, the plan is to have all their mechanical variants in the book.

A race variant system for changelings based on hag lineage like the aasimar/tiefling/dhampir variants would be awesome! There's a bit of support for this already (hulking changeling etc), but the more the merrier. It'd be nice if changelings from different hags were a little more distinguished from one another.

I'm not sure we'll have room to expand that much on them. We'll see... but the focus of this book is more on the flavor and world context of the races rather than the rules mechanics. It's kinda the reverse of "Advanced Race Guide" in that way. Inner Sea Gods is a good sample of what I mean by a book weighted toward flavor rather than mechanics... and I suspect this book will be a bit more weighted in that way even than Inner Sea Gods.

I hope Catfolk will get some love even if they are not technically an Inner Sea race.

Kudaku wrote:

A race variant system for changelings based on hag lineage like the aasimar/tiefling/dhampir variants would be awesome! There's a bit of support for this already (hulking changeling etc), but the more the merrier. It'd be nice if changelings from different hags were a little more distinguished from one another.

I'm not sure we'll have room to expand that much on them. We'll see... but the focus of this book is more on the flavor and world context of the races rather than the rules mechanics. It's kinda the reverse of "Advanced Race Guide" in that way. Inner Sea Gods is a good sample of what I mean by a book weighted toward flavor rather than mechanics... and I suspect this book will be a bit more weighted in that way even than Inner Sea Gods.

I see! Inner Sea Gods is probably my favorite Golarion book to date, I'm really looking forward to seeing what you have in store for us this time. :)

What I typically look out for when reading Inner Sea books is when flavor and mechanics meshes well together, ie I can create and play something that's both thematically fitting and also works well as a character mechanically. An example of this is an angelkin paladin, or the Blessed Hammer feat for a cleric of Torag. The reason I mention changelings is because the background of the race, 'the flavor', is absolute dynamite for creating an awesome witch! Unfortunately, the the race mechanics are not very attractive for a witch at all. This particular topic might be a little bit of a pet peeve for me though. Ever since I read the Changeling writeup in the ARG I thought it was a little odd that a race described as "frail, but clever and comely" gets a bonus in wisdom but not intelligence. So I'm hoping that the Inner Sea Races gives you a chance to tweak that particular detail! :)

various tieflings and aasimars ... as of the time I'm writing this, the plan is to have all their mechanical variants in the book.

YES!! YES!! YES!! YES!!

THANK YOU

nighttree wrote:

The only core race information I'm really hoping for is more concrete information of the Elves of the Spire.

Really hoping their is some changeling love in here though ;)

The changeling section is sitting on my desk right now, post-discussion-with-Wes, waiting to get its extra love. :-)

.....eeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEE--!!!

I hope Catfolk will get some love even if they are not technically an Inner Sea race.

Not a lot. Because, as you note, they're not an Inner Sea race.

But does that mean there is something in the book for them?

But does that mean there is something in the book for them?

Maybe a paragraph. Butt ONE of the words in that paragraph is a brand new proper noun that has not yet been published.

Is it "Catfolk-nip"?

I would love it if it turned out kobolds were vulnerable to becoming addicted to ginger.

Please...PLEASE tell me Kuru are supported in this book. I soooo want more options for my Kuru character...pretty please James *looks at u with puppy dog eyes*

I hope that proper noun is the actual name that catfolk call themselves:)

Please...PLEASE tell me Kuru are supported in this book. I soooo want more options for my Kuru character...pretty please James *looks at u with puppy dog eyes*

Sorry. Kuru are not really intended to be PCs first of all... and on top of that I'm pretty sure they're way too obscure for much of a mention in this book.

I hope Catfolk will get some love even if they are not technically an Inner Sea race.

Catfolk have also gotten some new details, including the little-known name by which they call their people. :-)