Pathfinder Player Companion: Champions of Balance (PFRPG)

Ah, thanks!

The 26th is still a whole week away....

Sounds like there is a lot of fun new mechanical stuff in this that isn't necessarily tied in with the Neutrality concept of the title. I may have to pick this one up.

I would like to get more details about the new arcane discoveries if i can? (I'm still waiting for the 26th)

I would like to get more details about the new arcane discoveries if i can? (I'm still waiting for the 26th)

Balanced Summoning: When you use a summon monster spell, you can summon two creatures from a single list one or more levels below that have opposing alignments on at least one axis (chaotic and lawful, good and evil). The example listed is using Summon Monster III to summon a celestial wolf and a fiendish hyena.

Beyond Morality: If you are neutral on at least one axis, you can choose to be treated as whatever would be most favorable on that axis in regards to spells whose effects vary based on alignment. So if you were chaotic neutral, you could choose count as good, neutral, or evil if they were tossing, say, a holy smite at you. You can only pick one alignment axis at a time even if you're true neutral (so you could choose to be affected as if you were neutral good, or chaotic neutral, but not chaotic good), and you can only pick one at a time. Must be 9th level wizard to select.

Creative Destruction: Destructive energy empowers you, when you cast evocation spells that do damage you gain temporary hit points equal to the number of dice used to determine damage caused by the spell, the temporary hit points don't stack and disappear after an hour.

Defensive Feedback: When an abjuration spell you cast prevents damage with damage reduction or energy resistance, if the attacking creature is within thirty feet, you can redirect some of it back at its source, the creature taking 1d6 points of damage for every 10 points prevented.

Idealize: When a transmutation spell you cast grants an enhancement bonus to an ability score, the bonus increases by +2. At 20th level it increases by +4. Must be 10th level wizard to select.

Can we get a bit more info on the Prestige Class ???

Can we get a bit more info on the Prestige Class ???

*slides link over under the internet*

Can we get a bit more info on the Prestige Class ???

You need to be true neutral, have Augment Summoning, Improved Counterspell, or Versatile Channeler, Knowledge (planes) 5 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks, be able to cast third level spells, and if you gain spells from a deity, the deity must be neutral and be able to grant them the ability to channel both positive and negative energy in order to enter the prestige class. It's a ten level prestige class that offers full spellcasting progression, half BAB, a d6 Hit Die, and Will as a good save. In general, it gains powers related to overcoming or resisting/ignoring alignment-based things. Ceasing to be neutral means you lose all class features until you regain your alignment via atonement.

Edit: Or you could click zergtitan's link, I suppose!

nighttree wrote:

Can we get a bit more info on the Prestige Class ???

*slides link over under the internet*

Here

Thank you both.....now to decide if it makes sense for my Priest of Groetus....

Possible Error in the requirements for the Eye of Brokerage. It uses Chaos Hammer, Order's Wrath which is the same (and much more appropriate) for the next item down, the Gauntlets of the Unchained. What should the Eye of Brokerage creation requirements be, please?

zergtitan wrote:

nighttree wrote:

Can we get a bit more info on the Prestige Class ???

*slides link over under the internet*

Here

Thank you both.....now to decide if it makes sense for my Priest of Groetus....

Lol know your pain man. My first pfs character is a cleric of Groetus and now that I have the book I don't think envoy is the right prestige for him. That being said I do love the neutral summons feat in the back and am totally taking that on him (it helps that he is a summoner cleric ^-^).

zergtitan wrote:

nighttree wrote:

Can we get a bit more info on the Prestige Class ???

*slides link over under the internet*

Here

Thank you both.....now to decide if it makes sense for my Priest of Groetus....

How is a priest of Groetus True Neutral?

How is a priest of Groetus True Neutral?

CE, CN, N and CG are all valid options for a cleric of a CN god according to the 'one-step' rules in the Cleric write up and per the table on p. 166.

CG might feel the most against type for Groetus, but that just makes for a richer RP opportunity.

Huh. I thought only clerics of True Neutral Deities could be True Neutral. Can't tell I don't play clerics much can you?

Huh. I thought only clerics of True Neutral Deities could be True Neutral. Can't tell I don't play clerics much can you?

I think that was a rule in a previous version of the game (3.0? 2nd edition? I don't remember...).

nighttree wrote:

zergtitan wrote:

nighttree wrote:

Can we get a bit more info on the Prestige Class ???

*slides link over under the internet*

Here

Thank you both.....now to decide if it makes sense for my Priest of Groetus....

Lol know your pain man. My first pfs character is a cleric of Groetus and now that I have the book I don't think envoy is the right prestige for him. That being said I do love the neutral summons feat in the back and am totally taking that on him (it helps that he is a summoner cleric ^-^).

LOL...I came to the same conclusion after some thought....

Probably will make use of the Neutral summons feat for him though....and I'm hoping there will be other treats in here for him :)

For anyone who already has a copy of this book, to help us get through the next couple of days before the PDF becomes generally available:

What is the most interesting thing about this book that has not yet been mentioned in this thread?

doc the grey wrote:

nighttree wrote:

zergtitan wrote:

nighttree wrote:

Can we get a bit more info on the Prestige Class ???

*slides link over under the internet*

Here

Thank you both.....now to decide if it makes sense for my Priest of Groetus....

Lol know your pain man. My first pfs character is a cleric of Groetus and now that I have the book I don't think envoy is the right prestige for him. That being said I do love the neutral summons feat in the back and am totally taking that on him (it helps that he is a summoner cleric ^-^).

LOL...I came to the same conclusion after some thought....

I love the PrC, and will find someplace to use it....but Jasper's not the spot.

Probably will make use of the Neutral summons feat for him though....and I'm hoping there will be other treats in here for him :)

Yeah, I'm going divine scion with Akram, it fits better with his plot but I do want to find a reason to make one. Maybe a Monad worshipping wizard or cleric.

For anyone who already has a copy of this book, to help us get through the next couple of days before the PDF becomes generally available:

What is the most interesting thing about this book that has not yet been mentioned in this thread?

Umm that's tough, a lot of cool stuff has been spoiled here. There is a really cool pic of the iconic rogue battling a born. Also if you felt burned by bastards then you will be in for an excellent treat.

Umm that's tough, a lot of cool stuff has been spoiled here. There is a really cool pic of the iconic rogue battling a born. Also if you felt burned by bastards then you will be in for an excellent treat.

AAWwww....that could mean ANYTHING.....

SADIST :p

doc the grey wrote:

Umm that's tough, a lot of cool stuff has been spoiled here. There is a really cool pic of the iconic rogue battling a born. Also if you felt burned by bastards then you will be in for an excellent treat.

AAWwww....that could mean ANYTHING.....

SADIST :p

lol. But yeah if Bastards of Golarion felt like a let down Champs more then makes up for it.

Also to continue on other stuff the art in here is pretty cool since it gives us a lot of nice character pics and some cool character pics and some nifty art of some of the neutral outsiders or races (like the iconic summoner calling in an inevitable).

Also the traits in here are really cool. I love that CN section gives you a trait that basically lets your crazy antics provoke a free surprise round for you and your party if you can pull the bluff check.

Also the traits in here are really cool. I love that CN section gives you a trait that basically lets your crazy antics provoke a free surprise round for you and your party if you can pull the bluff check.

That one sounds really interesting.

I love that CN section gives you a trait that basically lets your crazy antics provoke a free surprise round for you and your party if you can pull the bluff check.

Now THAT is a must have for the Priest of Groetus !

...What elements does Counterpoised give resistance to?

...What elements does Counterpoised give resistance to?

cold, electricity, and fire

Also they get DR/adamantine

doc the grey wrote:

I love that CN section gives you a trait that basically lets your crazy antics provoke a free surprise round for you and your party if you can pull the bluff check.

Now THAT is a must have for the Priest of Groetus !

Yeah now the downside is that you treat your Initiative as if you rolled a 1 but you and potentially your party gets a free surprise round against your enemies. All you gotta do is make a successful bluff check.

There's also one that lets you reroll social interaction checks after a fail and treat it like failing by only 4 or less as your blunders are endearing enough that people will sometimes let them slide.

Now that I have the PDF, I will share my favorite bit from this book.

As you might expect, the Summon Neutral Monster feat adds a bunch of neutrally aligned monsters to the Summon Monster lists.

Can you guess what the 9th level chaotic neutral monster is? The Valkyrie!

This just made me very happy.

A code of personal honor is entirely compatible with a chaotic alignment, provided this code is simple, serves to limit the constraints on yourself (and possibly others), and springs from a fierce internal conviction. Your sense of obligation is personal, not imposed by rules and structure; indeed, determinedly self-sufficient souls often feel their obligations more keenly than others around them.

This just made me very happy.

Chaotic Neutral wrote:

A code of personal honor is entirely compatible with a chaotic alignment, provided this code is simple, serves to limit the constraints on yourself (and possibly others), and springs from a fierce internal conviction. Your sense of obligation is personal, not imposed by rules and structure; indeed, determinedly self-sufficient souls often feel their obligations more keenly than others around them.

Yeah, I predict that sidebar about Chaotic Neutral is going to be getting referenced a lot round these parts.

I was really happy to see those pages. :D

I just realised, Naderi and Brigh are not mentioned at all in this book! WHY?!

I just realised, Naderi and Brigh are not mentioned at all in this book! WHY?!

Because it's not a religious themed companion. That's what the Faiths of series was for.

So I just stumbled onto the Practiced Leadership feat in this product (I didn't happen to read it in my quick digital scan). That is the absolute COOLEST idea I've seen in a long time.

For anyone who doesn't know, this feat allows you to treat your cohort as though it possessed all of your teamwork feats when determining the benefits you receive from them as long as you both remain as members of good standing in the same organization. The book also lists Neutral factions from Golarion; each faction has a benefit you get if you are a member of the organization with Leadership and a benefit for your cohort if you have Practiced Leadership.

Question: Is this the first time we've seen this mechanic? I don't recall it in Champions of Corruption and I don't have Champions of Purity. This is flippin' awesome: I want this EXPANDED, Patrick Renie! EXPANDED!

I just realised, Naderi and Brigh are not mentioned at all in this book! WHY?!

Brigh might just be getting some mention in Iron Gods.

Naderi might be quietly being ignored...

It's a point of contention in our group about the Twinned Channeling ability of the Envoy of Balance. It reads;

Twinned Channeling: When channeling energy, the envoy of balance can simultaneously release waves of positive and negative energy. She chooses a category of creatures (either living or undead), and this conjoined energy both heals and harms the affected creatures. Roll the amounts of damage healed and dealt separately. Treat the envoy of balance's effective cleric level as 2 lower than normal for the amounts of damage and the DC to halve damage taken. The envoy of balance can choose whether to include herself in either or both the healing and harming effects. If she has an ability that allows her to exclude targets from her channeled energy, such as the Selective Channeling feat, she can choose to exclude different targets from the healing effect than from the harming effect. An envoy of balance must possess the spiritual equilibrium endowment to choose this endowment.

The part that is hotly debated is whether Selective Channeling can be used as if you were Channeling twice (and thus can use your Cha modifier to ignore harming allies and to prevent healing allies), or if it's considered one channel (and thus you have to use share your Cha modifier between preventing people from getting hurt and healing enemies).

I feel like it should be the former, otherwise I feel like it's completely pointless. You're doing less damage dice (because it drops your level by 2 for the purpose of damage and save DCs), and you're also healing your enemies? It's kind of a mess, and if people could provide some insight on how to properly handle this ability (or a fix if it is broken as written) I would be most appreciative.

Is it just me or were they putting a little extra effort in trying to sell Rahadoum as a neutral nation?

It's a point of contention in our group about the Twinned Channeling ability of the Envoy of Balance. It reads;

Quote:

Twinned Channeling: When channeling energy, the envoy of balance can simultaneously release waves of positive and negative energy. She chooses a category of creatures (either living or undead), and this conjoined energy both heals and harms the affected creatures. Roll the amounts of damage healed and dealt separately. Treat the envoy of balance's effective cleric level as 2 lower than normal for the amounts of damage and the DC to halve damage taken. The envoy of balance can choose whether to include herself in either or both the healing and harming effects. If she has an ability that allows her to exclude targets from her channeled energy, such as the Selective Channeling feat, she can choose to exclude different targets from the healing effect than from the harming effect. An envoy of balance must possess the spiritual equilibrium endowment to choose this endowment.

The part that is hotly debated is whether Selective Channeling can be used as if you were Channeling twice (and thus can use your Cha modifier to ignore harming allies and to prevent healing allies), or if it's considered one channel (and thus you have to use share your Cha modifier between preventing people from getting hurt and healing enemies).

I feel like it should be the former, otherwise I feel like it's completely pointless. You're doing less damage dice (because it drops your level by 2 for the purpose of damage and save DCs), and you're also healing your enemies? It's kind of a mess, and if people could provide some insight on how to properly handle this ability (or a fix if it is broken as written) I would be most appreciative.

...using Selective Channeling with that means NOT healing your enemies, because you're excluding different targets from each effect.

I really enjoyed this book. My one complaint of this book is the fact druids are called shaman a lot. I really wish this book had come out after the ACG with shaman in them. I keep wanting to see what Archetypes and the like shaman will get as we have none yet, but a lot of books keep referring shaman to druids. I just keep seeing things I like in Druid and Oracle blurbs that would work well with the class I really want to play that isn't out yet lol.

Is it just me or were they putting a little extra effort in trying to sell Rahadoum as a neutral nation?

They have to be presented as neutral. It's one of the Laws of Man. :)

Page 13, the book mentions that Milani lives in Axis. That seems weird since Milani is a Chaotic Good diety. Should this be Irori?

I don't think the city of Axis meshes well with Irori's aesthetic. Though, you're right about Milani in Axis being a odd choice. Maybe, like NE Norgorber, she is seen as being an essential party of the city.

Question: Is this the first time we've seen this mechanic? I don't recall it in Champions of Corruption and I don't have Champions of Purity. This is flippin' awesome: I want this EXPANDED, Patrick Renie! EXPANDED!

.

However, I have not seen the mechanic to which you refer prior to this, no.

Page 13, the book mentions that Milani lives in Axis. That seems weird since Milani is a Chaotic Good diety. Should this be Irori?

Okay, totally found out why. Milani was a servitor of Aroden, who made his home in Axis. Aroden's realm is still there, maintained by some less than entirely stable former servants. So, Elysium is her home/home-of-the-heart. Axis is where she works, or did until recently.

Iammars wrote:

Page 13, the book mentions that Milani lives in Axis. That seems weird since Milani is a Chaotic Good diety. Should this be Irori?

Okay, totally found out why. Milani was a servitor of Aroden, who made his home in Axis. Aroden's realm is still there, maintained by some less than entirely stable former servants. So, Elysium is her home/home-of-the-heart. Axis is where she works, or did until recently.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the info.

Can someone who has a copy of the book please provide some information on the new cavalier order in it?

Order of the Scales, serves legal integrity and punishes criminals. makes sure all oaths and bargains are kept. you can find many of these already on the pathfinder OGC site under the cavalier at least one month after the products release.

Thank you, sir.

Some folks were asking questions about this on another thread, so I'm posting the answer here for all to see.

Alignment: Neutral.

...
Special: If the character gains spells from a deity, this deity’s alignment must be neutral and it must be able to grant followers the ability to channel both positive and negative energy.

This restriction does not mean "any neutral". It means you must be neutral on both alignment axes to take this prestige class.

Similarly, the restriction on deity worship means the deity must be true neutral.

Characters who are LN, CN, NE, or NG or who worship a deity representing any of these alignments are not eligible to take the envoy of balance prestige class.

Hope this clears up any confusion.