Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 4 (OGL)

Tome of Horrors is a bit different, since it's third party, and I think all the really high CR threats are probably updates of monsters that were statted up with epic rules in mind for 3.0/3.5

I thought I remember a reference from James Jacob that the only 25+ CR monsters would be the 3 great old ones, 3 demon lords, 3 empyreal lords, and 3 Kaiju. None of which are beyond CR 30

CR 30 is Pathfinder's "cap". You won't find us doing statblocks that go beyond CR 30. Though, now with Mythic rules, you will see many more statblocks in the CR 20–30 range.

Official CR 31+ monsters have appeared in Tome of Horrors Complete (and I think in ToH 4 as well, though I haven't gotten my copy yet so I'm not sure), as well as in several planned releases that have been talked about in other threads (see the "what is secret project X" thread, for example).

I don't know what "official" means for you, but I think it means released by Paizo. The Tomes, good as they are, are not Paizo products, and it is very well possible that their creators were unaware of any unwritten rules that Paizo uses to cap levels/CRs.

I don't even like those CR30+ monsters. They are just bland monsters pumped up with bigger numbers with the same kind of spell lists and spell-like abilities.

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As far as I know, there are no official CR 31+ monsters in PF, nor are any planned, as they are outside the scope of what Paizo are doing concerning Golarion, Mythic, etc.

Also, not sure if you were aware, but every 2 mythic tiers equals +1 CR. So 10 tiers equals +5 CR.

Official CR 31+ monsters have appeared in Tome of Horrors Complete (and I think in ToH 4 as well, though I haven't gotten my copy yet so I'm not sure), as well as in several planned releases that have been talked about in other threads (see the "what is secret project X" thread, for example).

And yes, I know how the mythic rules work--I don't know why you would assume I didn't.

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Yeah according to JJ and The Bullman, this bestiary will have many more high CR threats (including some 21+ threats like demon lords and Great Old Ones) than in previous bestiaries, and a lot of original mythic monsters of all levels, not just the higher ones. As far as I know, I believe they said that Kaiju are also 20+ threats. Not to mention that Colossi sound amazing (high level massive transforming golems). One of them sounds like Alexander/Giant of Babil from Final Fantasy IV. Which, to me, a giant tower golem sounds awesome.

I think (don't quote me) someone mentioned tooth fairies as being a low level mythic creature. So yeah, it looks like they have A and B covered for you.

Well that's definitely encouraging:) I'm still going to wait to see what monsters are in it before getting it, but if it is like what you just described, there is now a pretty good chance of me getting it.

Thanks, that helped.

When I say official monsters, I'm talking by Paizo proper, not other publishers. That's why I mentioned their vision with Golarion and Mythic.

PF and Mythic are not meant to support monsters over CR 30. This has been said by JJ many times. Obviously you can use other rulesets (like the ELH 3.0) to help facilitate that, but again, that's not official.

Yeah. I'm already running a game loosely using the Moon from FF4 as a point of reference, so this made me a happy camper.

Hmmmm I'm planning on running a campaign loosely based on FF4 as a whole, so I'm right there with ya.

That said, the way Mythic is set up, there is little need to continue past CR 30. Mythic covers much of what the ELH allows you to do without the need for inflated numbers and complicated abilities. I'd like to think of the power of 25+ creatures as exponential, with each one significantly more powerful than the last.

The exception that Mythic can't do is allow fighting gods. Which, I guess, to me, it is difficult to quantify gods without it becoming a game of Extreme Rocket Tag. But I've personally preferred the "use magic to bring gods to CR 30" method of killing them. Though I suppose you can have something more akin to Greek or Norse mythology, where the gods aren't necessarily omniscient or omnipotent.

I'm rambling now...

I don't know what "official" means for you, but I think it means released by Paizo. The Tomes, good as they are, are not Paizo products, and it is very well possible that their creators were unaware of any unwritten rules that Paizo uses to cap levels/CRs.

Or they just don't care. Paizo might not want to do them, but I think there's room in the game for CR 31+ monsters. After all, ignoring Paizo's unwritten rules about psionics being Vancian, not point based, has been pretty good to Dreamscarred Press.

Though I suppose you can have something more akin to Greek or Norse mythology, where the gods aren't necessarily omniscient or omnipotent.

I don't know of any D&D/Pathfinder/etc setting where the gods are supposed to be omniscient or omnipotent. The very least, other gods are capable of hiding things from them/undoing what they have done. In fact, in any setting with more than one god, it's kind of impossible for more than one to be omniscient/omnipotent.

You have a good point there Kthulhu. Perhaps there is room for that then. And hell, I really liked how Mythic turned out so if the demand is high for Deific Adventures, then bully for them, I hope they make it! Though I wonder what a deific bestiary would have, aside from gods and how to make your own god?

I've long said that I'm down for all the mythic and epic rules Paizo wants to make, and that includes deific rules. I don't think it'll happen in this edition of PF since they already have a hard cap they want to abide by, but maybe in PF 2.0.

I just hope that they do not give any mythic tiers/ratings for the monsters in this book. I look at mythic as an optional rule and do not want it forced on me in my bestiaries. I like that the mythic rules allow the stats for powerful story characters and creatures from the setting I just want those stats in different books.

I just hope that they do not give any mythic tiers/ratings for the monsters in this book. I look at mythic as an optional rule and do not want it forced on me in my bestiaries. I like that the mythic rules allow the stats for powerful story characters and creatures from the setting I just want those stats in different books.

Well, I have bad news... they've countlessly said that there will be original mythic monsters in this Bestiary. Grendel, for example, is an original mythic creature. Personally, I'd rather they actually support their rules rather than let them languish like WotC did.

I hated the mythic creatures they stated up in the Mythic Adventures book and the thought of seeing Grendel with Mythic tier 4 or something like that next to there CR really turns me off to this product. I was very disappointed with the creatures in Mythic Adventures and was hoping for stats for new creatures, some of the few good ones from the Epic Handbook like the Abomination or Prismatic dragon, or even some unique high CR creatures or characters. Anyway back to what I was saying, I do not mind high CR creatures, I just do like the idea of some random creatures in this book having mythic abilities, mythic tiers, and/or other such rules especially if you don't care for them or do not own those rule books.

Well, the mythic creatures are going to be a bit different than the ones in Mythic Adventures. They will be original creatures, not "Mythic X", and after seeing the statblock of the demon lord in Wrath of the Righteous, which doesn't list any ranks, it is possible there won't be a listing. However, I'm really glad they are supporting the rules for those of us that do have the rulesbook. I really want to see more original mythic monsters, not just mythic versions of existing ones. Just because some people may not like Mythic Adventures or not have it (despite it being on the SRD) doesn't mean we need to completely block it from those that do.

Besides, there will be plenty of non-mythic creatures in here. Especially since non-mythic monsters outnumber mythic ones by, oh say, three bestiaries.

I would reserve judgement on Mythic monsters like Grendel until the mythic campaign setting book comes out. I am sure the Oliphaunt will give a good idea how they will tackle mythic monsters.

And I am glad they didn't load the mythic book with new mythic monsters. I would much rather have a mythic hydra in that book than taking up room in Bestiary 4.

I hated the mythic creatures they stated up in the Mythic Adventures book and the thought of seeing Grendel with Mythic tier 4 or something like that next to there CR really turns me off to this product. I was very disappointed with the creatures in Mythic Adventures and was hoping for stats for new creatures, some of the few good ones from the Epic Handbook like the Abomination or Prismatic dragon, or even some unique high CR creatures or characters. Anyway back to what I was saying, I do not mind high CR creatures, I just do like the idea of some random creatures in this book having mythic abilities, mythic tiers, and/or other such rules especially if you don't care for them or do not own those rule books.

You really won't need the Mythic Adventures book to run Mythic creatures.

Mythic creature'a abilities will probably be repeated in the back...the surge ability is really simple...and most of the mythic creature special abilities will be described in the stat block. That is all you really need. So you probably won't need to own the Mythic Adventures to use the Mythic monsters from the book.

As to not liking them...shrug I don't have any use for the Mythos crap stuff we are getting...but can accept the fact that never EVERYTHING in any given book I have to like or use.

137ben wrote:

Official CR 31+ monsters have appeared in Tome of Horrors Complete (and I think in ToH 4 as well, though I haven't gotten my copy yet so I'm not sure), as well as in several planned releases that have been talked about in other threads (see the "what is secret project X" thread, for example).

I don't know what "official" means for you, but I think it means released by Paizo. The Tomes, good as they are, are not Paizo products, and it is very well possible that their creators were unaware of any unwritten rules that Paizo uses to cap levels/CRs.

Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs.

I suppose you could argue that PF is "not official", and is just an "unofficial" update to 3.5...

As to the possibility of Paizo creating divine rules in the future: yes, I would really like that. And, more importantly, I'd really like Paizo (or any other publisher, really) to do it better than WotC did! The 3.0 Deities and Demigods book was...a disappointment to me. Most of the abilities in it were either bland (higher numbers!) or far to vague to be used. That was 10 years ago, and people have a lot more experience writing for the game than they did then, so I'd expect that if Paizo decided to create a system for divine characters, they would do a much better job. And if Paizo doesn't want to? Well....hopefully in that case another publisher would fill the void.

Finally, MMCJawa, I agree: MA laid out the core foundation for the mythic system, and the monsters in it were examples of how you can add mythic tiers. Really complex and interesting monsters deserve their own books, and that is what the Bestiaries are for:)

I will even buy an entire monster manual with only mythic creatures that are made from already used pathfinder monsters, such as Mythic Siren, Mythic Goreweaver, Mythic Alraune, Mythic Adaro ect ect.

I really love the new pictures and I love the extra abilities, the Bone Devil is SOO much better with his power over bones.

But in bestiaries I rather not see them, if they do it make it into a entire manual of its own without new stuff in it just old remythic stuff.

I dunno. the Mythic Minotaur is pretty amazing. if I can take variant monsters in a normal bestiary (like winter wolves) I can take a few Incredibly awesome Mythic Monsters.

That said, i wouldn't want to see them even reach a third of the bestiary
maybe around 1/10th of the book would be fine, maybe less. And they'd have to be super awesome. Like the Mythic Dragons. I want rules to Build my own Mythic Dragons.

I dunno. the Mythic Minotaur is pretty amazing. if I can take variant monsters in a normal bestiary (like winter wolves) I can take a few Incredibly awesome Mythic Monsters.

That said, i wouldn't want to see them even reach a third of the bestiary
maybe around 1/10th of the book would be fine, maybe less. And they'd have to be super awesome. Like the Mythic Dragons. I want rules to Build my own Mythic Dragons.

Agreed on the Mythic Dragons bit. A campaign I know of has a Sea Dragon emperor, and I think it would be awesome if it were mythic.

Other then the mythic stuff I am disappointed about all the 0HD races are reprints, no new celestials(not including the Empyreal Lords), no new Proteans, no new Oni, no new Aeons, and likely no new Inevitables. They haven't mention if there will be any new Azura, Rakshasa, Qlippoths, Titans, Kytons, or Divs. I know were getting Psychopomps but I do not care much for them anyway.

I'd have to search for it, but I think they said no new Qlippoths. I am also disappointed in no new celestials or fiends, as well as reprints of 0 HD races from the ARG essentially taking space that could've been done for new monsters. With the exception of the original races that were used as examples (the two armed race, the fey race, etc). Those definitely deserve a section in the bestiary and luckily they are in there, according to Jason Buhlman on the Know Direction Podcast. But yeah, lack of celestials and fiends (except demons because they are the pet fiendish race of Paizo) makes me pretty disappointed, especially since I'm looking to run a devil-driven adventure and could always use more devils.

Still, everything else I've heard sounds awesome. Elohim could be a new high CR celestial outsider group, and the Colossi are probably my new favorite creatures. So I will definitely be enjoying this Bestiary.

I hope we don't get Rakshasa, so far I only like the normal Rakshasa (I love it so much and that is probably the reason I don't like the others) and the very different looking Raktavarna, but the others are doing nothing to me.

Never cared for Aeons.

Oni's are fine as long as they aren't like the *fill-in-any-elemental-here* Yai and Oni's based on giants, I kinda like the Tengu, Kitsune and other such Oni tho, and the Ogre Mage is a classic, so if there are oni, I hope they are NON-giants.
The Earth and Wind Yai would be waste of precious pages for me personally, if they use stuff from the Jade's Regent, I hope its not them, especially when they use them instead of Bakekujira, Gashadokuro, Jinmenju, Rokurokubi and Raiju.

I like more Titans like the Hekantoncheires, LOVE more Kytons and Divs, I don't really care for Azura but wouldn't mind them eighter.

I would actually really like to see new Proteans in the future, much awesome stuff can be done with them, so with Qlippoths. Inevitables? Never use such stuff, but I don't mind them that much.

Colossi are probably my new favorite creatures.

<insert evil laugh here />

Odraude wrote:

Colossi are probably my new favorite creatures.

<insert evil laugh here />

Why? Did you make them?

Odraude wrote:

Colossi are probably my new favorite creatures.

<insert evil laugh here />

Oh man, given the description of the Colossus that turns into a castle, I will be making a Final Fantasy 4 themed game and have that as the Giant of Babil/Alexander.

The outsiders subtypes I've liked so far (only those in PF, I'm not counting 3.5/3.0/other stuff) are daemons, inevitables, formions, rashaka, and aeons. So I'm glad we're getting more formions, but I'm worried that Paizo doesn't like aeons:(
I guess I'll keep begging Jason Nelson to do a "Mythic Aeons" supplement...

Formions are not outsiders in Pathfinder, they will be monstrous humanoid or magical beast.

I would like to know what the Elohim will be in pathfinder.

I wouldn't mind some more types of CN, LN, or N(non-psychpomps) outsiders.

I hope we will get some more types Gigas and not just Abyssal and/or Infernal.

I wonder if the Colossi is the new name for Juggernaut or that they are different creatures all together.

Ross Byers wrote:

Odraude wrote:

Colossi are probably my new favorite creatures.

<insert evil laugh here />

Why? Did you make them?

Well, I wrote things for them. I'm as exited as anyone else to see what came out the other side of editorial.

Formions are not outsiders in Pathfinder, they will be monstrous humanoid or magical beast.

I would like to know what the Elohim will be in pathfinder.

I wouldn't mind some more types of CN, LN, or N(non-psychpomps) outsiders.

I hope we will get some more types Gigas and not just Abyssal and/or Infernal.

I wonder if the Colossi is the new name for Juggernaut or that they are different creatures all together.

Pretty sure colossi and juggernauts are separate entities. They were listed as separate in the podcast.

Spawn of Yog-Sothoth! From the "Ask JJ everything" thread.

Personally, I'd prefer (more) psychopomps to aeons. Aeons looked a bit silly to me.

One or two more asuras and kytons would be nice. Daemons need to catch up to demons :P

I like the way Aeons look. Just a bit sad they have Mordenkainen Neutrality Syndrome.

Personally, I'd prefer (more) psychopomps to aeons. Aeons looked a bit silly to me.

One or two more asuras and kytons would be nice. Daemons need to catch up to demons :P

I agree with you, the one ones I liked a little bit are the Pleroma and the time-controlling thing. But they already said there won't be Aeons in this one.

Its almost September! Let the blogs start now!

There is suppose to be an outer dragon in the mythic themed campaign setting book (or at least a reference to one?)

That must be The Dark Comet mentioned in the blog. Crap, I was hoping it was a Dark Tapestry entity, not a space dragon. Oh well. Space dragon is pretty cool too. I guess.

Space Dragons are always nice to have.

It is almost September, so let the previews begin.

I also like the ways Aeons look and do not care much for Psychopomps or the way they look.

I like it that normal mythology creatures (such as the Kere)can be Psychopomps, they can't be Aeons, so that's why I like Psychopomps more than Aeons.

MMCJawa wrote:

There is suppose to be an outer dragon in the mythic themed campaign setting book (or at least a reference to one?)

That must be The Dark Comet mentioned in the blog. Crap, I was hoping it was a Dark Tapestry entity, not a space dragon. Oh well. Space dragon is pretty cool too. I guess.

Well, there are still four monsters left unaccounted for in Mythic Realms, so it might be one of those.

Well, there are still four monsters left unaccounted for in Mythic Realms, so it might be one of those.

Alas, only three now. Six of the nine have been revealed. Four (Tar-Baphon, Arazni, Kortash Kain, and Jatembe) are humanoid, and two (Oliphaunt and the Dark Comet) are monstrous. I'm so very hoping at least one of the last two are monstrous as well. And from the Dark Tapestry.

Archaeopteryx was just said by JJ to be in the bestiary 4.

Would this be a Dinosaur, Megafauna or just a animal or even a familiar animal?

I hope it isn't one of the (probably) 4 dinosaurs in the book! Never really cared for the Archaeopteryx, even as a Dino-addicted child I always skipped the pages and artwork of this creature.

So I hope its a Familiar.

Archaeopteryx was just said by JJ to be in the bestiary 4.

Would this be a Dinosaur, Megafauna or just a animal or even a familiar animal?

I hope it isn't one of the (probably) 4 dinosaurs in the book! Never really cared for the Archaeopteryx, even as a Dino-addicted child I always skipped the pages and artwork of this creature.

So I hope its a Familiar.

Seconded.

Spawn of Yog-Sothoth! From the "Ask JJ everything" thread.

It's about time we had some monsters with refinement and taste! ;)

I thought the spawn of Yog-sothoth was one of lovecraftian creatures they can't reprint because of legal reasons.

I thought the spawn of Yog-sothoth was one of lovecraftian creatures they can't reprint because of legal reasons.

Nope. It's from The Dunwich Horror, written by Lovecraft himself. All of his material in the Mythos is open AFAIK.

Formions are not outsiders in Pathfinder, they will be monstrous humanoid or magical beast.

They are according to the pfsrd...

I like it that normal mythology creatures (such as the Kere)can be Psychopomps, they can't be Aeons, so that's why I like Psychopomps more than Aeons.

Oops, I left psychopomps of my list of favorite outsider subtypes. I still like aeons more, but I'd be fine with more of either.

I said for pathfinder they are not outsiders they were outsiders for 3.5. What your looking at is from forgotten foes.

The formians are the ant-people right?

Yes and mostly found on Castrovel in Pathfinder, though I am sure there some colonies on Golarion somewhere.