Pathfinder Battles—Legends of Golarion

I would agree with you, Deanoth. I love the PFB line and it certainly kicks DDM in the teeth.

I'm not expecting perfect paints and such...but I would like there to not be random runs of paint on a fig or a face to be totally jacked up. I mean, part of the reason I buy the plastics is because I don't have the time nor the patience to paint my own. That aside, I really like the set; I would just like to see boxes containing what they should and the designs to be appropriate (in reference to the orc issue). I normally fix my breaks with a bit of glue and don't mind doing so...but given that I'm spending a few hundred dollars for a case, I don't expect that I should have to fix very many nor should any be missing from the case count.

I'm generally pleased with the quality of the minis in this set. Much better than most of the WotC line and definitely better then the first set. There were a few painting oopses and only one broken (mothman broke of the stand). I was blown away by the orcs though. They just turned out great! Also really impressed by the bat demon's wing paint ap-very striking!
I agree that some of the paint seemed a little dull. If the manufacturer spends a bit more on the quality of the paint, i think this will solve the problem nicely.
My only concern about the set is scale. The gargantuan green was tiny compared to the old school Wizards line, and some of the large creatures could have taken up more space on their base (hodag for example).
All in all, I'm pleased with the set and think it was worth the cost. Am i correct that the amount of packaging was reduced? If so, good on you for that.

I do think some people are being overly picky but can not blame them either too.

I have a friend who asked me if I was being too picky. I showed him my two Goblins, both with large parts of their faces that were black because they didn't paint the full face, or my Derhii with large spots on one wing where it is clear they missed when they dry brushed on the grey. I don't expect "great" paint jobs from PPMs ever. I do expect at least "table" quality. I really don't think asking for faces to at least have paint is being picky. I am not worried about the places where flesh color slightly crosses over onto the hair or the silver of a sword slightly covers the top of a gloved hand. It is the errors that can be seen even from 3' away that are the problem for me.

As a side note, I am also not counting the overly heavy handed use of the washes on a few figures, those I think of as opinion issues. Soem folks like heavy washes and some done. :)

I do think some people are being overly picky but can not blame them either too. I use the DDM line in comparison and think that this set and all the other Pathfinder Battles line STILL blow DDM miniatures out of the water. This set has some amazing sculpts and replace many many of my DDM minis too.

I hate to be contrary, but...

I've been collecting minis since DDM started up. I have tens of thousands of them. I have also been dealing them as singles for seven years, now, buying collections when people are getting out of the game and/or opening cases when a set is first released. DDM certainly had some bummers (only two colors, or very static poses, or lousy re-dos of older minis that had been done better in prior sets). But the paint jobs have NEVER been as bad as these. Painting a bra onto a bare chested male figure never happened. Painting eyes onto peoples' foreheads/hair never happened. And "dirty" was never a word I would use to describe armor or a cloak that was from a DDM mini; "flat" or "boring" sure. But dirty and dusty? No.

There were some great sculpts in this set. There were some stellar minis. But, by and large, most of these don't come even close to what was put in front of Erik when he was given previews (and what he posted when he was doing previews). WizKids badly dropped the ball on these. Very badly.

2 and 1/2 stars is about right, if a little high, in my opinion. Artificially boosting the numbers on these reviews would be a disservice to people who pay good money for their product.

And, to be clear, I do not in any way blame Paizo. This is WizKids that botched this set during the final step. I doubt that step was under Paizo's control, at all.

Again, the above was MY opinion sir. I TOO have been collecting DDM minis since the beginning and have almost as much of them if not more than you do sir. I completely disagree... there is not a single Pathfinder Mini that is as bad as most of the DDM mini line as a whole. Again I am not the only one with this opinion and yea I know you are not the only one with your opinion.

I enjoy these minis and do not agree that the review stars should be at 2 and a half stars. I think it should be near 4 (not 5 this time) but surely not 2 and a half. The paint masters were better I agree, also I may have got some of the better painted minis with little to no mistakes.

Either way we do agree on one thing.. if there is fault to be laid here it is not on Paizo's end.

If I'd had your luck with paint jobs I would give this a 4, as well. I just can't after what I opened, though. Made me sad. I'll still use a lot of them (after all, I don't have to paint them, and they fill a lot of niches, which is the best part about Paizo doing them), but I'm not using as many as I WANTED to use after seeing the previews.

Then again, I have a bit of bitterness toward WizKids, so that could be coloring my opinion.

I especially want to see the iconics as uncommons, but you have them as rares! Even as uncommons these minis would be very popular and in high demand.

That right there is one of my issues with the miniature line. I run a couple of Iconics Groups for some newbie gamers and it helps them to get into it with their own designated figure (most are young). The first four were their own set, the first couple of sets they were uncommon. Then there is discussion on the forums about a lot of people wanting an iconics set then wham they're rare.

Playing catchup and dealing with the horrible second party markup if you wanted to try peace meal. There is no way for me to sustain purchasing the sets.

If I only had the time to dedicate to my Bones that I wish I had, the whole reason I started buying the plastic minis back when WoTC started them.

Rise of the Runelords is the only set where the Iconics were Rares.

Rise of the Runelords is the only set where the Iconics were Rares.

They are rare in this set (Legends) also.

Rise of the Runelords is the only set where the Iconics were Rares.

First Four were their own Set (Valeros, Ezren, Kyra, Merisiel)

graywulfe wrote:

Rise of the Runelords is the only set where the Iconics were Rares.

First Four were their own Set (Valeros, Ezren, Kyra, Merisiel)

Runelords they were Uncommon (Harsk, Seoni)
Heroes & Monsters they are Rare (Seelah)
Shattered Star they are Rare (Lem, Amiri)
Legends they are Rare (Lini, Sajan) Lini's Snow Leopard is Uncommon
Skull and Shackles they are Rare (Seltyiel, Lirianne)
Diamonds to Doughnuts Alain the one shown so far for Wrath of the Righteous is a Rare.

D'oh I meant to say that Runelords was the only set that they were not Rares in, as opposed to the first couple.

I'm going to go sit in a corner, now, and learn to proofread my posts. :)

I will also say that I am very glad that the Iconics are Rares. The rare minis, generally, have more detail in the paint job.

Again, the above was MY opinion sir. I TOO have been collecting DDM minis since the beginning and have almost as much of them if not more than you do sir. I completely disagree... there is not a single Pathfinder Mini that is as bad as most of the DDM mini line as a whole. Again I am not the only one with this opinion and yea I know you are not the only one with your opinion.

I enjoy these minis and do not agree that the review stars should be at 2 and a half stars. I think it should be near 4 (not 5 this time) but surely not 2 and a half. The paint masters were better I agree, also I may have got some of the better painted minis with little to no mistakes.

Either way we do agree on one thing.. if there is fault to be laid here it is not on Paizo's end.

I also have collected DDM since the beginning and totally agree with Deanoth. These are the best pre-painted plastic minis I have ever seen. I do not have the issues some seem to have with this set at all. I am very happy with what we are getting. I also agree the first set was not that great but even that set was way better than any DDM set I have.

I will also say that I am very glad that the Iconics are Rares. The rare minis, generally, have more detail in the paint job.

Me too. For that reason and (as a case buyer) there's just less need for repeats of distinctive humanoids than repeats of monsters.

Deanoth wrote:

Again, the above was MY opinion sir. I TOO have been collecting DDM minis since the beginning and have almost as much of them if not more than you do sir. I completely disagree... there is not a single Pathfinder Mini that is as bad as most of the DDM mini line as a whole. Again I am not the only one with this opinion and yea I know you are not the only one with your opinion.

I enjoy these minis and do not agree that the review stars should be at 2 and a half stars. I think it should be near 4 (not 5 this time) but surely not 2 and a half. The paint masters were better I agree, also I may have got some of the better painted minis with little to no mistakes.

Either way we do agree on one thing.. if there is fault to be laid here it is not on Paizo's end.

I also have collected DDM since the beginning and totally agree with Deanoth. These are the best pre-painted plastic minis I have ever seen. I do not have the issues some seem to have with this set at all. I am very happy with what we are getting. I also agree the first set was not that great but even that set was way better than any DDM set I have.

Wait. I'm not saying ALL the sets are bad. Quite the contrary: all the prior sets have been awesome, including Heroes & Monsters. Sure, there were a few glitches, but I loved them all and acquired tons of stuff I use regularly.

THIS set has more than a few glitches, and does not at all live up to the expectations created by prior sets.

I'm a long time DDM mini collector, and I would place H&M well behind most DDM sets. The other PFB sets generally place up with the better DDM sets.

I'll see what I think of this set when I get around to opening it.

Russ, could you elaborate? If you are talking about durability then I would agree in certain ways. The Wizkids Pathfinder Minis are a little more fragile but that is because of the type of plastic being used though to increase the amount of detail. The detail, paint steps and the quality of the paint jobs for Pathfinder Minis blow away the DDM minis on even their best sets IMHO.

Cost for obtaining a set through case purchase was terrible for the DDM minis as well. I would have to buy about 4+ cases to get a full set of DDM minis and one Case to get a set of miniatures from the Pathfinder Battles line. So value wise Pathfinder Minis are better too. :)

If you would elaborate?? :)

Not speaking for Russ obviously, but I also preferred the DDM figures to Heroes and Monsters. In my case it was an aesthetic opinion - the Wizkids minis seemed more 'cartoony' to me than the WotC ones (the monsters in particular which is what I primarily care about).

The later Wizkids sets are more "realistic" in my opinion (though I realise it's stupid to talk about a realistic dragon, but there you go - hopefully you know what I mean). Nonetheless, I prefer the style of the DDM sets to the PFBattles sets.

I share your opinion that the painting of the new sets is superior, as a general rule. I dont find that terribly important though - I can see imperfections in the painting if I hold up a mini for inspection. When it's being used in play, a blob for a face just doesnt give the same negative impression to me that a cartoon-looking figure (like the H&M Ogre or Troll, for example) does.

The mixed reviews of this set is becoming a real nail biter for me. Either I'm going to get one of the good cases, with proper painting and assembly, or I'll get one of the cases full of scary looking miniatures that shouldn't have passed QC. And I don't mean that in a good way.

Well, it's a bit comforting that the Wrath of the Righteous set looks more promising, at least judging by the first preview. I hope the end result will look better than LoG minis, because I can't say I'm fully satisfied with any of the ones I got from three boosters; none were particularly impressing, and only a few were okay (the rest weren't even that).

Well, it's a bit comforting that the Wrath of the Righteous set looks more promising, at least judging by the first preview.

I wish I could say the same. Problem is, many of the figures I got in my case do not even come close to the preview pictures of LoG shown. Had I received figures that looked like the previews I would be singing the praises of LoG.

As for the whole DDM vs pathfinder argument; I think it is disingenuous to say one line was far better than the other. Each line has figures that were wonderful and each has had figures that were less than "good". There is a reason why I didn't a full set of any DDM or Pathfinder sets. I didn't want them. Both lines have value and both have given me some great miniatures.

Russ, could you elaborate? If you are talking about durability then I would agree in certain ways. The Wizkids Pathfinder Minis are a little more fragile but that is because of the type of plastic being used though to increase the amount of detail. The detail, paint steps and the quality of the paint jobs for Pathfinder Minis blow away the DDM minis on even their best sets IMHO.

Cost for obtaining a set through case purchase was terrible for the DDM minis as well. I would have to buy about 4+ cases to get a full set of DDM minis and one Case to get a set of miniatures from the Pathfinder Battles line. So value wise Pathfinder Minis are better too. :)

If you would elaborate?? :)

Again Deanoth has stated my experience. Every DDM set I bought four cases and then I had to go to after market sources to fill in. Not just minis I wanted more of but minis I did not get one figure of. It was a nightmare. Now, I just fill in to increase the numbers of certain monsters. Today I got a whole boat load from ebay.

I have far more breakage with my Pathfinder miniatures overall. I agree the paint and detail is better (though to be honest really glad I skipped this set...really bad reviews on this). However, I expect better quality from the PF miniatures. Point blank they are significantly more expensive than the DDM ones were.

I do wonder how widespread the bad miniatures are in the Legends of Golarion set. I had a few breakages in my previous sets (Shattered Star in particular). I still may try to get some of LoG if I can find non Great Muttato faced ones.

On the upshot, the dragon lines that the sell separately look pretty neat =)

Asgetrion wrote:

Well, it's a bit comforting that the Wrath of the Righteous set looks more promising, at least judging by the first preview.

I wish I could say the same. Problem is, many of the figures I got in my case do not even come close to the preview pictures of LoG shown. Had I received figures that looked like the previews I would be singing the praises of LoG.

As for the whole DDM vs pathfinder argument; I think it is disingenuous to say one line was far better than the other. Each line has figures that were wonderful and each has had figures that were less than "good". There is a reason why I didn't a full set of any DDM or Pathfinder sets. I didn't want them. Both lines have value and both have given me some great miniatures.

Now that you mention it, I think you may be right; I took another look at the LoG previews and they look far better than the actual minis. Sculpts look the same, but paint jobs are sloppily done.

I bought DDM sets but sadly I was a bit too late. It wasn't until Pathfinder CRB hit the shelves when my players convinced me to buy flip-mats and pre-painted minis. I was thrilled when Paizo announced their deal with WizKids, and I have happily bought new boosters every month.

I don't have any opinion on whether DDM or Pathfinder Battles are better; some DDM sets were obviously better than others, and there are a lot of minis I'd like to buy on the singles market. As for PF minis, I've been more satisfied with each set, and that is probably why I'm a bit disappointed at this sudden drop in quality.

Asgetrion wrote:

Well, it's a bit comforting that the Wrath of the Righteous set looks more promising, at least judging by the first preview.

I wish I could say the same. Problem is, many of the figures I got in my case do not even come close to the preview pictures of LoG shown. Had I received figures that looked like the previews I would be singing the praises of LoG.

As for the whole DDM vs pathfinder argument; I think it is disingenuous to say one line was far better than the other. Each line has figures that were wonderful and each has had figures that were less than "good". There is a reason why I didn't a full set of any DDM or Pathfinder sets. I didn't want them. Both lines have value and both have given me some great miniatures.

Is this the same problem I have when i go to a fast food place and the burger I get doesn't look as nice as the one in the picture on the menu? In other words, is it a problem with the picture of proofs and masters setting the expectation bar too high where everyone thinks all their miniatures are going to look exactly like the pictures?

-Skeld

Is this the same problem I have when i go to a fast food place and the burger I get doesn't look as nice as the one in the picture on the menu? In other words, is it a problem with the picture of proofs and masters setting the expectation bar too high where everyone thinks all their miniatures are going to look exactly like the pictures?

-Skeld

I don't think it's the case where the masters set the expectations too high; at least not for me. I've been buying ppms since WOTC's Harbinger release and I know that the finished product will not be as good as the paint masters. My problem is that many of the LoG human/humanoid figures look like they have been painted by a child: paint globbed onto faces so heavily that the features are totally obscured, paint spilling over onto the wrong parts of the mini, excessive use of wash, and sloppy dry brushing. Over the years, I've come to expect some sloppiness on commons but when this is happening on rares, I've got to call Paizo/WizKids on the carpet for releasing a sub-standard product.

Regards,

V

Skeld wrote:

Is this the same problem I have when i go to a fast food place and the burger I get doesn't look as nice as the one in the picture on the menu? In other words, is it a problem with the picture of proofs and masters setting the expectation bar too high where everyone thinks all their miniatures are going to look exactly like the pictures?

-Skeld

I don't think it's the case where the masters set the expectations too high; at least not for me. I've been buying ppms since WOTC's Harbinger release and I know that the finished product will not be as good as the paint masters. My problem is that many of the LoG human/humanoid figures look like they have been painted by a child: paint globbed onto faces so heavily that the features are totally obscured, paint spilling over onto the wrong parts of the mini, excessive use of wash, and sloppy dry brushing. Over the years, I've come to expect some sloppiness on commons but when this is happening on rares, I've got to call Paizo/WizKids on the carpet for releasing a sub-standard product.

Regards,

V

Hear hear! And considering that the previous set was very good -- at least every mini I got -- it kind of makes me wonder. In fact, each new set has improved upon sculpts and paint jobs... until now. What in the sweet name of Asmodeus happened with LoG?

My guess is the pressure of trying to rush out 3 sets in such a short time frame along with the Evolution and Builder sets led to taking short cuts. The LoG sculpts are as good as any in the previous sets; perhaps better. But the painting falls far short of the previous standard.

Regards,

V

I like the painting in this set, personally. Granted I'm pretty clearly in the minority but I dont like the bright colours and sharp contrasts of previous sets. The heavier, darker washes are more to my liking.

I like the painting in this set, personally. Granted I'm pretty clearly in the minority but I dont like the bright colours and sharp contrasts of previous sets. The heavier, darker washes are more to my liking.

Had the washes been done right I might agree, but when you only wash part of an area so that there are now a "bright" part and a "darker" part (say a face for example) it does not add to the mini. It becomes a nagative IMO.

I too agree with Vernon, the sculpts are not the issue in any way. This set could have been a great one. And for those who want to repaint and touch up figures it still could be. But for those who buy PPMs because they don't want to paint, it falls short.

Steve Geddes wrote:

I like the painting in this set, personally. Granted I'm pretty clearly in the minority but I dont like the bright colours and sharp contrasts of previous sets. The heavier, darker washes are more to my liking.

Had the washes been done right I might agree, but when you only wash part of an area so that there are now a "bright" part and a "darker" part (say a face for example) it does not add to the mini. It becomes a nagative IMO.

I too agree with Vernon, the sculpts are not the issue in any way. This set could have been a great one. And for those who want to repaint and touch up figures it still could be. But for those who buy PPMs because they don't want to paint, it falls short.

It certainly seems you're in the majority. I'd be very surprised if the look doesnt return to previous sets.

Nonetheless, I thought I'd comment that I prefer the look of this set to the style of some of the earlier ones.

My guess is the pressure of trying to rush out 3 sets in such a short time frame along with the Evolution and Builder sets led to taking short cuts. The LoG sculpts are as good as any in the previous sets; perhaps better. But the painting falls far short of the previous standard.

Regards,

V

This is exactly what I think has happened, as well. With the sets being rushed to "catch up" from Shattered Star being delayed, it is hurting them now on quality.

At least I am hoping it is the case as this would be temporary, because once they caught up, they "should" be ok. I hope it's not something where quality is slipping on a more permanent basis. But I think we need to at least look at a couple sets before we make that kind of call.

On another note, I 'finally' received my notice of shipment for my miniatures. The only problem is it only covers one case. I should have another case, as well as the two premium minis. But I'll give it until later tomorrow to see if I get another email(s) before I contact customer service.

Ultimately, I just like the look of DDM, other than a few really bad sets. PFB's been competitive since Heroes and Battles.

Price-wise...no contest, in favor of DDM. Of course there's been some hydrocarbon price increases since then. Yes, more cases to get a set, but at $400 a case, I was getting a lot more DDM for my money. Cost per figure's pretty high for PFB.

Granted, I could start buying elsewhere to trim that a bit.

Ultimately, I just like the look of DDM, other than a few really bad sets. PFB's been competitive since Heroes and Battles.

Price-wise...no contest, in favor of DDM. Of course there's been some hydrocarbon price increases since then. Yes, more cases to get a set, but at $400 a case, I was getting a lot more DDM for my money. Cost per figure's pretty high for PFB.

Granted, I could start buying elsewhere to trim that a bit.

Russ,

You make it sound like the DDM minis were cheap cheap cheap. Now if you are to factor in today's economy, the price of petroleum and then why DDM line went up and out and is no longer being produced. Because it was not cost effective any longer.

So while you might think that the DDM minis were cheap... they cost as much if not more for them as they do now. It is about the economy and inflation. It is easy to say I can buy a car back in the 80's alot cheaper then I can now and expect that to be a fair comparison. They are both different in quality and price for a reason. Just like the Pathfinder Miniatures and the DDM minis are so drastically different!

The last few sets WotC did with the visible mini (large or huge depending on the set) were more in line with PFB, in terms of price. They had fewer minis per box, and the cost was around $3 per mini, which is what PFB works out to. If "full set" was what you were after, DDM was definitely never the way to go.

I'm curious what Wizkids' take on LoG is. Have they acknowledged that something went wrong this time around? Have they offered an explanation? As I've gotten more minis from this set, and seen the different outcomes with a range of the same mini, it definitely looks to me like quality is all over the map on this set. Did they maybe just hire a few new painters who simply weren't up to the task yet, and quality control let them through?

Actually, if you were after a full set, DDM was definitely still the better deal. I routinely got two cases, ended up with an average of 6 rares missing, and bought them aftermarket for an average total aftermarket of under $50 - so my total cost was about $250 for a complete set, with lots of each common and a couple of each uncommon. And for each rare I had to buy, I had a different duplicate rare that I could keep or sell - I more than made up for it on some occasions. Comparing that to the current $440 + shipping for a case plus premium figure - the price of plastic hasn't gone up THAT much.

In general, the paint quality on PFB has been much better, and I've been willing to get a single case of the last few sets. And I was in awe of the paint jobs on some of the large figures in LoG. But my King Irovetti has no face, just a swirly blob of brown. I never had this kind of issue on DDM minis, even the commons (well, maybe on some of the original Harbinger set), so to see this on a Rare is a bit shocking, and makes me question whether to get the next set or not. I'll probably hold off until I see people's reviews.

Cintra,

Your luck is much better than myself and many of my friends with DDM. Most times I could buy 3 cases and still not get within 5-6 minis of a full set. Usually it worked out to around 80-85% (tops).

With my experience, DDM was extremely poor on distribution of minis. It seemed to me it was designed for you to buy 3-4 cases. So I am a bit surprised you had such a consistent good distribution of minis.

But as for the PFB, I have heard the king has a very poor paint job on the face from quite a few people now, and that was one of the minis I was looking forward. Afraid to see what mine will look like once I get my cases.

Actually, if you were after a full set, DDM was definitely still the better deal. I routinely got two cases, ended up with an average of 6 rares missing, and bought them aftermarket for an average total aftermarket of under $50 - so my total cost was about $250 for a complete set, with lots of each common and a couple of each uncommon. And for each rare I had to buy, I had a different duplicate rare that I could keep or sell - I more than made up for it on some occasions. Comparing that to the current $440 + shipping for a case plus premium figure - the price of plastic hasn't gone up THAT much.

In general, the paint quality on PFB has been much better, and I've been willing to get a single case of the last few sets. And I was in awe of the paint jobs on some of the large figures in LoG. But my King Irovetti has no face, just a swirly blob of brown. I never had this kind of issue on DDM minis, even the commons (well, maybe on some of the original Harbinger set), so to see this on a Rare is a bit shocking, and makes me question whether to get the next set or not. I'll probably hold off until I see people's reviews.

Cintra,

There is a reason WotC discontinued the line. It was not cost effective to their profit margin any longer. And to say that you never had the paint issues with DDM minis... I can show you many many pictures of blotchy paint, mold lines, even some flash and just plain fugly looking minis in the DDM line that make any of the paint jobs by PBM so so much superior in comparison.

Do not put the DDM minis on a pedestal and not expect people to go up in arms about it. DDM minis are produced differently and for a reason. I hated the bases on the DDM minis they were always warped. I love the bases on PBM because of their stiffness. If they come away from the minis I just glue em back on. still much better then having a mini bent over the base so badly that it looks like it is walking sideways or it rocks like a rocking chair all the time and even falls over from balance issues.

So yea the price of minis HAS gone up that much because of the cost of petroleum!! So think on that for a moment and why WotC no longer has the mini line.
Sorry about my ranting but it just frustrates me that people do not take in to account costs like this.

Not to mention it was frequently 3-4 cases for me to get a full set just shy of 6-10 minis that I traded for or bought on the singles market. So you are far luckier than most of my friends and myself were too.

It is too bad this thread seems to have drifted into a PPM edition war. The truth is, both lines have figures that were wonderful and some that were real bad. Neither has the corner on greatness and both share in the stinky mini pool.

I think the real focus needs to be pulled back to "Why the mix of quality and the number of errors to be found in this set?" and then how to help WizKids not do it again.

I'm curious what Wizkids' take on LoG is. Have they acknowledged that something went wrong this time around?

Still waiting here. It's very unlike Paizo NOT to acknowledge customer issues promptly. It would be great to hear even that they're following up with WizKids on our behalf, and have no official word.

Until then, I'm not buying.

I just recently received my case of LoG, and my friends and I opened it up on the same day as my case of SS. We didn't notice any difference in quality between the two sets, and frequently were wowed at the minis pulled out of the boxes.

We are not by any means mini connosieurs, so we probably wouldn't notice things like flashing or bad washes or brushing, or even know what the terms mean. We aren't really concerned with how masterful the art job is done, only that the miniature looks like what it is supposed to look like.

We would notice things like missing paint or glob faces or whatever, and didn't see a single instance of that in either set. Even the problem minis people are reporting here were fine in my case. Sajan looks fine, King Irovetti has a face, nothing has missing paint. Perhaps there was just one batch that got messed up and the rest are normal.

It would be great to hear even that they're following up with WizKids on our behalf, and have no official word.

To be fair that has happened. Paizo staff has posted several times regarding the issues and at least with the Ork Archer issue posted that WizKids and they are exchanging communications regarding the error.

So Paizo has acknowledged the some folks are unhappy with the LoG set paint jobs and that WizKids, is aware.

We have talked with WizKids, we've passed on specific posts from folks here, we've passed on some of the photos our customers have sent us, and we've even passed on a number of individual minis that Erik personally found in cases he opened.

We've *also* let them know that many customers are reporting that they have received cases that are just fine, and that, for the most part, when one customer says my [figure X] is badly painted, we have other customers or staff members who have perfectly good examples of that figure... with the possible exception of King Irovetti, who seems to be a bit of a train wreck way more often than not (which is especially disappointing to us, because his paint master was one of the most beautiful figures in the set).

The bottom line is that we've let them know that the overall feedback we're getting on this set indicates that the paint quality seems to be much more variable than on our previous sets, and we expect them to do whatever they need to do to make sure that Wrath of the Righteous (which is about to begin manufacturing) doesn't have the same issue.

What I'm taking home from this is that one or two human being painters were new/inexperienced/lazy/sick/drunk plus a communications issue or two cropped up (Sajan's bra and the bow string issue).

Okay. So Wizkids will probably lean on the Chinese factory management and there'll be a reprimand or two issued.

It doesn't sound like systemic failure or procedural or even mechanical. It's human beings who make these gorgeous things for us and some of the humans let us down. Problem being worked on. I therefore look forward to the next set.

Also, please keep the DDM talk to a more appropriate spot—this is the discussion thread for Legends of Golarion.

The wife and I just opened our case and the monsters and monstrous humanoid figures were all around very solid. The larger figures also seemed to be pretty fine, she expressed disappointment that these sets do neat things with iridescent paints sometimes and the Shaiten wasn't jeweltastic like the art that inspired it. Our big offenders seem to be some of those others have seen like Sajan's bra top, Irovetti the train wreck, and our Lini seemed like she was just blasted top to bottom in her hair's bright color so she almost looks like a very shiny twig with an over large forhead. One of the things we noticed is a lot of our human figures have the Supernatural Demon Possessed Eye Syndrome. Namely their eyes are all soulless jet black... rather appropriate for Halloween, but still. The Eagle Knights seemed to be going for the war torn/roughed up look but just look almost like their clothes went through a quick Acid Rain spell and started to have holes burn through. Our poor Beatific One seemed to have gotten defanged, but from a distance such as down on the table is perfectly acceptable they'd have been too small to really notice anyway.

The Reefclaw is straight up awesome it's a great figure that I know I will get a lot of use out of. The biggest disappointment for me in this set was seeing my wife's face light up when she opened the box that had Queen Ileosa in it and then seeing her face fall flat as she got a close up look at her face. She looks like Pablo Francisco and that is incredibly disappointing for a figure as spectacular as the rest of her is. Once I took the Queen and put her down on the table distance made it better, but we'd already seen her face up close and it may take some time to get over it.

All in all the set is a solid set especially when you consider that only 6-8 of the figures are really effected by the strange black eye phenomenon that overtook our humans. The Large Figures, Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, and Serpentfolk are all really great and I for one and stoked that we got such a helping of Kobolds.

Above all, I'm just grateful that (a) Paizo is making pre-paints at all, (b) they are listening to feedback and making adjustments, and (c) they are being transparent about it, which to my mind really makes the company stand out. And in the meantime, with the weaker pieces in this set, I think I'm just going to need to break out my own brushes and set things right :-)

The bottom line is that we've let them know that the overall feedback we're getting on this set indicates that the paint quality seems to be much more variable than on our previous sets

Thanks for following up, Vic.

Well here is some positive. I picked up a brisk while I wait for my paizo subs to arrive in Oz. Almost every mini I drew form that brick was top notch. The paint jobs were pretty crisp and clean. I was really concerned about the queen - the one I drew was fantastic, clear facial details, clean paint job. Contrary to other reviews my eagle knight was also well executed, clear detail but a little heavy with the wash, certainly no blobs or blotches though. My orc archer had the bow wrong as expected, but a very quick cut and re-glue fixed that quickly enough. The three biggest surprises were the ulut-kini, marsh giant and knight of Ozem. The gloss varnish of the ulut-kini and giant were overdone for the effect desired. They could possibly have left the shine off the weapons and equipment carried by each. I love the Ulut-kini, works well and looks great. The marsh giant I'm not as in love with now. One arm seems stunted and out of scale with the rest of the mini. The paint and pose are good though. As for the much maligned Knight of Ozem; my actually looks pretty good, certainly NOT old mageknight quality. The pose is good, the paintjob is clean. The flesh colour on the face doesn't bleed onto the helmet, the eyes are in the right place and the face is clear enough to make out mouth and nose etc. I was really surprised by it given the bad press it's received, I would even use it for a PC!