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EDIT: To clarify, I am aware that there is are small boxes that say ,"Offensive Abilities and Class Features" and "Defensive Abilities and Class Features." But what everyone considers to be Offensive and Defensive is different, and I didn't consider any of the Revelations I wanted to fit into those categories, and regardless, having one large cohesive list makes a lot more sense to me. So I skipped over them looking for the "big list" to use. Kind of like how you can put offensive feats into those boxes (a good idea for something like Power Attack) but there is still a huge cohesive list of your feats in book.
I agree with you, but I don't find the offensive/defensive feature sections to be a deal breaker. It doesn't matter that few people will agree on what abilities are what, because it's your sheet. So as long as it makes sense to you, it works.
It is a lot more flowery than I care for, as my personal sheet shows.
EDIT: To clarify, I am aware that there is are small boxes that say ,"Offensive Abilities and Class Features" and "Defensive Abilities and Class Features." But what everyone considers to be Offensive and Defensive is different, and I didn't consider any of the Revelations I wanted to fit into those categories, and regardless, having one large cohesive list makes a lot more sense to me. So I skipped over them looking for the "big list" to use. Kind of like how you can put offensive feats into those boxes (a good idea for something like Power Attack) but there is still a huge cohesive list of your feats in book.I agree with you, but I don't find the offensive/defensive feature sections to be a deal breaker. It doesn't matter that few people will agree on what abilities are what, because it's your sheet. So as long as it makes sense to you, it works.
It is a lot more flowery than I care for, as my personal sheet shows.
Its okay. To each his own, as one of my friends (and the Player who GM'ed for me in the night I talked about) prefers sheets like yours as well. That's why I tried to use as much language in my comment to state that it was my opinion as I possibly could.
It really wasn't as much of the fact that there was an offensive / defensive system that broke the product for me. There were a lot of little things; like how unfriendly the PDF is to printers (even if you print grayscale, that background is still going to eat your black ink up). I also felt that space wasn't utilized well with a lot of the little fluffy things, namely the headquarters section. But the real thing that killed it for me wasn't the presence of those two sections; it was the lack of "spells known" space (one page is not enough for any of the classes) and absence of a singular "Class Features" section; probably brought about because someone thought those two smaller boxes would make up for the lack of one big box. They didn't for me and to be honest, in a product like this I think its good that prospective buyers see both the critiques alongside the praises so they can make a better judgment on whether or not this is worth their investment.
And i thought the one I made for my table game was too simple!
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I'm not sure if it has been mentioned in this thread but a few people have told me that they like the folio but that having forms in the PDF would be much more handy for printing out a completed sheet.
I'm not sure if this can be accomplished and still retain the security settings on the PDF but I thought I would mention it in case it can be revised.
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I'm not sure if it has been mentioned in this thread but a few people have told me that they like the folio but that having forms in the PDF would be much more handy for printing out a completed sheet.
I'm not sure if this can be accomplished and still retain the security settings on the PDF but I thought I would mention it in case it can be revised.
Unfortunately it can't be due to the security settings.
Please make this form fillable. If that can't be done with securities, then please remove the securities.
Those that steal, steal. Those that pay, pay. I know about both d20pfsrd.com and torrents, and yet I pay Paizo.
I'm annoyed as a customer I get punished... it's like watching those anti piracy ads when I'm at the movie theatre and have already bought my ticket.
Seriously, reward the people who pay you, the ones who don't will steal it anyway.
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These are fantastic. Really nicely done on all counts, in my opinion.
I'm annoyed as a customer I get punished... it's like watching those anti piracy ads when I'm at the movie theatre and have already bought my ticket.
Seriously, reward the people who pay you, the ones who don't will steal it anyway.
Saying that you are being "punished" is really unfair and unfounded. Paizo have been completely upfront with what this product is and how it can be used. You chose to purchase it (or chose not to suspend your subscription) with full knowledge available as to what you were buying.
Just because this product is not the one you wanted it to be does mean Paizo has punished its loyal customers. It simply means that, like all products that are for sale, you maybe should have looked at what you were buying before agreeing to hand over money.
These are fantastic. Really nicely done on all counts, in my opinion.
Agreed!
Saying that you are being "punished" is really unfair and unfounded. Paizo have been completely upfront with what this product is and how it can be used. You chose to purchase it (or chose not to suspend your subscription) with full knowledge available as to what you were buying.
Just because this product is not the one you wanted it to be does mean Paizo has punished its loyal customers. It simply means that, like all products that are for sale, you maybe should have looked at what you were buying before agreeing to hand over money.
The protective measures do not hamper those that they are intending to hamper. I, a loyal Paizo subscriber am hampered.
You may not agree with the exact verbiage, but the fact remains is they are passing on a negative on to their fans and customers.
The protective measures do not hamper those that they are intending to hamper. I, a loyal Paizo subscriber am hampered.You may not agree with the exact verbiage, but the fact remains is they are passing on a negative on to their fans and customers.
I guess we just have different mindsets here, because as far as I can tell, you can't be hampered from doing something if you were never intended to be able to do it in the first place.
Filing under: Agree to disagree.
Created an errata thread for things like what Gregg Reece found.
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Please make this form fillable. If that can't be done with securities, then please remove the securities.
Those that steal, steal. Those that pay, pay. I know about both d20pfsrd.com and torrents, and yet I pay Paizo.
I'm annoyed as a customer I get punished... it's like watching those anti piracy ads when I'm at the movie theatre and have already bought my ticket.
Seriously, reward the people who pay you, the ones who don't will steal it anyway.
So you are asking a company to go completely against their security measures and basically give it away on the internet for free to anyone that would want it and have no measure of recompense or measure of punishment should someone do so. That does not make sense.
Just because someone steals something does not mean that they will make it easier to steal than.
It is NOT punishing anyone because we all know the security is there. By the way your analogy does little in the way of making sense and does not punish anyone.
It is NOT punishing anyone because we all know the security is there. By the way your analogy does little in the way of making sense and does not punish anyone.
It is not much of an inconvenience for people who are determined to not pay Paizo for their products (some call it stealing).
It is an inconvenience for me, and I do pay Paizo for their products.
Based on earlier comments, it is an inconvenience for other people who pay Paizo for their products, also.
Maybe a bit more background to help understand where I'm coming from:
I use a tablet (an iPad). I like this product. I'd like to use it on my iPad. I'd like it to be form-fillable. I've heard this is not possible due to the securities.
I use a tablet (an iPad). I like this product. I'd like to use it on my iPad. I'd like it to be form-fillable. I've heard this is not possible due to the securities.
I'd like a character sheet for the iPad too. Hopefully paizo will eventually get around to creating such an app (or licensing one).
Fwiw, they've previously requested people not discuss their pdf security on the product pages.
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If they create an all-digital version of this character sheet, I hope they make it available to the people who purchased this.
As I said earlier, a non-form fillable .pdf of something like a character sheet this day and age, no matter how pretty, is not worth $6.99, in my opinion.
+1 DeathQuaker.
I think exactly the same.
The char.folio is nicely done, no doubt,but it isn't so much different from my home made sheet,and i'm not going to buy one for each of my chars.
Also i risk ruining the external pages if i fold them to fit them into my scanner,so am not going to try and make a digital copy on my own.
Hope i used the right words, English not being my lang.
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I think it's a completely different product. This was a hardcopy character sheet for people who like that kind of thing. They provided a PDF version, but it isnt fillable. If they bring out a digital character sheet which is fillable and/or does some calculations for us, why is there some obligation to give it away to people who bought a different, earlier product? To me it would be like asking for Paizo to 'upgrade' one's gazetteer when the Campaign Setting came out.
The disappointment (almost resentment even?) just doesnt make sense to me, unless maybe someone bought this folio expecting it to be different from what it is - I could understand a certain disappointment then.
If they create an all-digital version of this character sheet, I hope they make it available to the people who purchased this.
As I said earlier, a non-form fillable .pdf of something like a character sheet this day and age, no matter how pretty, is not worth $6.99, in my opinion.
I should note in fairness I got my .pdf for free as a subscriber. I'm saying this hypothetically, if one were only to purchase the .pdf separately, they would not get what they paid for. Again, in my opinion.
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Layout is nice--I admit at first I did not get why the summary page was where it was and then I realized as you flipped through the booklet you always kept the summary page out, which is a great idea. Lots of room to write stuff, and it looks sturdy enough that it will take some vigorous erasing and re-writing.
This one had me confused for a bit as well, I was like, do you fold it over on the cover or something. My wife corrected my wrongness (as she often does.)
While fillable/saveable would be ideal, the PDF should be useable, if only to print out and the manually write on with an actual pencil. (GASP!)
It is definitely that--I just printed out some pages. All the fields to fill in are blank white so there's no ink to scribble over, so it will take pencil as well as the paper you print it on.
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It is NOT punishing anyone because we all know the security is there. By the way your analogy does little in the way of making sense and does not punish anyone.It is not much of an inconvenience for people who are determined to not pay Paizo for their products (some call it stealing).
It is an inconvenience for me, and I do pay Paizo for their products.
Based on earlier comments, it is an inconvenience for other people who pay Paizo for their products, also.
Maybe a bit more background to help understand where I'm coming from:
I use a tablet (an iPad). I like this product. I'd like to use it on my iPad. I'd like it to be form-fillable. I've heard this is not possible due to the securities.
You CAN put text in each of the boxes that you want as form fillable. You just can't make it do the math for you. Most of the PDF readers out there allow you to enter text in to any PDF.
If you want it to do the math for you.. then you are out of luck. There are plenty of "form-fillable" character sheets out there right now that this one is not that big a deal nor a deal breaker when it comes to character sheets. The beauty of this product is the hard cover itself and the fact that it is a folder that can hold things and a form of player screen for playing.
I use a tablet too (Android) and yes when I play I use a form fillable PDF and I have even experimented with this one and added text to it and saved it as a character to the original was still intact. Even if I accidentally saved the original as my character I can always download it again.
Meanwhile this folio is NOT a punishment for those that buy it. Just because it is not form fillable does not make it useful. As a PDF it is great that I can keep printing it out and making new characters with them and saves me some money. I like it... while making it form fillable could be useful to me I am not going to think it a punishment just because it is not.
I guess if you think that it is.. ceset la vie.
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Just seems like a waste for that. And I already have a binder with document protectors for my PFS characters. The organized play guide is in the front, then characters in numerical order and chronicles in the same sleeve, then multiple chronicles for all the scenarios I'm prepared to GM.
So that's already covered. :)
I think it's a completely different product. This was a hardcopy character sheet for people who like that kind of thing. They provided a PDF version, but it isnt fillable. If they bring out a digital character sheet which is fillable and/or does some calculations for us, why is there some obligation to give it away to people who bought a different, earlier product? To me it would be like asking for Paizo to 'upgrade' one's gazetteer when the Campaign Setting came out.
The disappointment (almost resentment even?) just doesnt make sense to me, unless maybe someone bought this folio expecting it to be different from what it is - I could understand a certain disappointment then.
Yeah I dont get the complaints and demands for a fillable character sheet based on this product. I mean its pretty obvious that this is a physical product FIRST and FOREMOST and that Paizo giving the PDF is a bonus as with the almost all of their other products.
A fillable character sheet would be great but that's not what this product was meant to be and at not point, to my knowledge anyway, did Paizo say that's what this was going to be.
If it's so easy to do, why doesn't someone else take up the project then give it away for free? In all the time wasted here griping about it someone could have pretty much done that.
Or at the least opened up another thread requesting this product...
It is not much of an inconvenience for people who are determined to not pay Paizo for their products (some call it stealing).Those would be law enforcement, attorneys, courts, and lawmakers, to name a few.
It's against the law, as it should be. I'm 100% against it. I disagree that the word stealing should be used, though I agree it's as bad as stealing.
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Just want to say that I really love pages 12 and 13 for what they could encourage players to do more often. The spots for appearance, personality, individual family members, background history broken down into segments, home/hideout map, friends, foes, likes, dislikes, phobias...
Really thinking about picking up a full set for my Shattered Star group now.
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While fillable/saveable would be ideal, the PDF should be useable, if only to print out and the manually write on with an actual pencil. (GASP!)It is definitely that--I just printed out some pages. All the fields to fill in are blank white so there's no ink to scribble over, so it will take pencil as well as the paper you print it on.
I want fillable not for the mutable parts of the character but the immutable. I don't tend to change things like character name, race, appearance, feats, background. All sorts of things that just once chosen for a character are chosen for good. I don't propose printing out a new copy for every change, but --and I know this is a terrible cliche-- I often need to reprint a character every 2-4 levels do to accumulated cheetos and coffee damage. Or just I've worn through the page in the damage section.
Now for the fun fact...
The annotation tools of GoodReader on my iPad work to make it fillable.
It is a lot more flowery than I care for, as my personal sheet shows.
Ah, a man after Edward Tufte's heart. Bravo!
Thanks gb. I hadn't heard of the man.
Went to see a conference he gave up in Boston a few years back; it was outstanding. Anyone who ever is going to present information, data, or the like should really pick up one or more of his books; the first two are amazing.
For everyone else, his philosophy in a nutshell is twofold:
1. If the framework displaying the data is more obvious than the data, you're Doing It Wrong.
2. Presentation of data shouldn't lie.
Of course, given that we're talking about two incredible hardcover coffee-table books, there's a lot more than that in there :)
TOZ's character sheet is a perfect example of structure that doesn't overwhelm the data, yet is structured enough to be clear. Contrast his sheet, for example, with this one, for example. Even the standard character sheets tend to draw your eye to things like the ability blocks (STR, DEX, CON, etc.) rather than the data itself.
I think my solution is to buy a $10 app and a $30 stylus for my iPad. :/
Page 28: Changed Shirt Reroll title to Free Reroll title. Added the following text to that section: “If a player is using a physical copy of the Pathfinder RPG Player Character Folio, they receive a free reroll as if granted by a shirt. No player may receive more than one free reroll per session, even if wearing a shirt and using a folio.”
Well played, Paizo. Well played.
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My only gripe: The stats section isn't so pencil friendly.
I ran into this when I used one for the first time in a new Skull and Shackles campaign.
Are we supposed to use pencils on that page? Or is it intended to be used with dry-erase markers? (which seems like it would ruin the paper page it touches when closed)
I've been testing these pens out on other surfaces first (like bookkeeping files) but I do have high hopes for them to work: Frixion Eraseable
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The page numbering on this product has been fixed now more accurately reflects the printed product.
I've been testing these pens out on other surfaces first (like bookkeeping files) but I do have high hopes for them to work: Frixion Eraseable
The Frixion pens work great, but they need to be *thoroughly* dry before you attempt to erase it, else you'll just smudge everywhere.
I have ordered two of these on Sat( or Fri?)...because I have always been a hard copy Character sheet kinda of guy. Writting it down helps me learn the system alot better than letting a program do it all...which is why inevitably I am the 'Rules Guy' at most tables I play at.
Anyway I helped my GM organize and clean up his game area tonight and he gave me his copy from his subsciption for the work.
Just using it to fill out me Second Darkness character on it tonight...I like it alot. I'l probably get one eventualy for all of my characters.
I do have two complaints....
1)The Spells Prepared section and the Spellbook/Spell known section is a little small(though I'll probably get the pdf so I can print the spellbook page for my casters...it even has the handy folder to keep it in)
2) I would have perferd to see class abilities be one section.
But as a hard copy character sheet pencil using gamer I think it is worth the expense. The pdf is doubly useful as you can print out extra pages of what you need.