can anyone confirm that the Brutal Pugilist is a barbarian varient that uses their fists? I am not asking for the details as I do have the book pre-ordered.
Yup.
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I recently bought the Advanced Player's Guide, and I haven't had time to read through it all. However what I've read so far has given me some feedback already:
1. I've already found a few typos. Wish they had proofread it some more.
2. There are some changes from the Final Playtest Version that didn't get properly checked. For intance, the Inquistor now gets the full judgment bonus right away, but it's level based (+1 at 1st level), which is a lot better I think; but then later in the text they refer to getting the "maximum bonus in the first round" - in fact that is the "Slayer" ability, which is a non-ability now. They also refer to it in the True Judgment: "Once the attack is made, all of the bonuses from the inquisitor’s judgments reset to those granted on the first round (although the slayer judgment remains at the maximum bonus)."
3. I agree with another poster that the Gnome should get a Favored Class Option for Sorcerer (maybe instead of for Wizard). And that the extra spell option for Human Sorcerers is a MUCH more powerful option than an extra hit point or skill point.
4. I was disappointed to see campaign-specific things (deities of Golarion) in the original books, but accepted it because they served as examples in that case. With Regional and Religion traits, there is even more, necessitating conversion for my own world in order to use them. Most of them are not really related to the Religion anyways, and could easily have been much more generic.
5. I was a bit disappointed to see practically all the Archetype barbarians are basically raging machines. I would have liked to have seen more role-play options, such as barbarians who are clever horsemen, river people, desert dwellers, with different skills related to each.
Does anyone know if anybody has posted the changes from the Final Playtest Version? As in, the change in Inquisitor's Judgments mentioned above, etc.?
I recently bought the Advanced Player's Guide, and I haven't had time to read through it all. However what I've read so far has given me some feedback already:
1. I've already found a few typos. Wish they had proofread it some more.
2. There are some changes from the Final Playtest Version that didn't get properly checked. For intance, the Inquistor now gets the full judgment bonus right away, but it's level based (+1 at 1st level), which is a lot better I think; but then later in the text they refer to getting the "maximum bonus in the first round" - in fact that is the "Slayer" ability, which is a non-ability now. They also refer to it in the True Judgment: "Once the attack is made, all of the bonuses from the inquisitor’s judgments reset to those granted on the first round (although the slayer judgment remains at the maximum bonus)."
3. I agree with another poster that the Gnome should get a Favored Class Option for Sorcerer (maybe instead of for Wizard). And that the extra spell option for Human Sorcerers is a MUCH more powerful option than an extra hit point or skill point.
4. I was disappointed to see campaign-specific things (deities of Golarion) in the original books, but accepted it because they served as examples in that case. With Regional and Religion traits, there is even more, necessitating conversion for my own world in order to use them. Most of them are not really related to the Religion anyways, and could easily have been much more generic.
5. I was a bit disappointed to see practically all the Archetype barbarians are basically raging machines. I would have liked to have seen more role-play options, such as barbarians who are clever horsemen, river people, desert dwellers, with different skills related to each.Does anyone know if anybody has posted the changes from the Final Playtest Version? As in, the change in Inquisitor's Judgments mentioned above, etc.?
From a post by Jason B., Slayer adds 5 to your effective Inquisitor level for one of your Judgments, but you can't swap that Judgment for the duration of the combat. It amounts to an additional +1 or +2 for any Judgment you use.
It seems to me that this was really rushed out to meet the expected release date, meaning significant content errors are in the released product. I'm rather anxious for the errata doc to be released. Some things (like the Human favored class bonuses) seem exceptionally overpowered, while others seem relatively balanced. I'm hoping that this is changed as well, as the spontaneous caster thing for Humans is equivalent to half a feat every level.
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Not all people who come from barbaric cultures need to be members of the barbarian class. The Shamanic druid, Rangers, and warrior types who aren't as raged oriented can be respresented as fighters with the right feat and equipment choices. Also sorcerers, rogues, just about any class is fairly easy to fit into a barbaric society, the only problematic (but not impossible) ones are Wizard and Paladin.
5. I was a bit disappointed to see practically all the Archetype barbarians are basically raging machines. I would have liked to have seen more role-play options, such as barbarians who are clever horsemen, river people, desert dwellers, with different skills related to each.
Not to mention that not all who take the Barbarian class need to be from barbaric cultures. Consider a pit fighting slave who wins his fights by losing himself in the blood lust and adrenaline rush of the fight. Or characters of civilized cultures who were lost for a time in the wilderness and had to adapt to survive.
I found that something is missing from Savage Warrior's Natural Weapon Mastery ability (p.108):
'At 20th level, a savage
warrior must choose one natural weapon. This ability
replaces weapon mastery.'
Maybe it should do something also?
Nice book anyways, good new options for all classes.
I found that something is missing from Savage Warrior's Natural Weapon Mastery ability (p.108):
'At 20th level, a savage
warrior must choose one natural weapon. This ability
replaces weapon mastery.'Maybe it should do something also?
My guess is it grants the exact same benefits as Weapon Mastery, except with a natural weapon. And the superfluous non-disarmable part, of course.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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My guess is it grants the exact same benefits as Weapon Mastery, except with a natural weapon. And the superfluous non-disarmable part, of course.I found that something is missing from Savage Warrior's Natural Weapon Mastery ability (p.108):
'At 20th level, a savage
warrior must choose one natural weapon. This ability
replaces weapon mastery.'Maybe it should do something also?
Correct.
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My guess is it grants the exact same benefits as Weapon Mastery, except with a natural weapon. And the superfluous non-disarmable part, of course.I found that something is missing from Savage Warrior's Natural Weapon Mastery ability (p.108):
'At 20th level, a savage
warrior must choose one natural weapon. This ability
replaces weapon mastery.'Maybe it should do something also?
It'd only superflous if you've got a nice GM...
There's a reason it's called disarm
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So is there gonna be more content released for the Inquisitor? Kinda got screwed over. No feats, no prestige class, no different Orders of inquisition to add some flavor differences. Yes I understand you can pick different domains, but still 1 1/2 pages for the inquisitor, 5 or 6 for the other classes. I'm hoping there's some more Inquisitor stuff released soon, cause thats my favorite of the new classes despite its lack of content
All of the APG classes are going to get support in either Ultimate Magic or Ultimate Combat, or both.
As for going in the PRD, yes eventually, but I think Paizo are still recovering from Gencon
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Is any of this stuff going to appear in the SRD?
If you mean the Paizo PRD, I believe so.
If you mean the site d20pfsrd.com, yes. The new Base Classes have all now been added. Note however, that new feats and spells have not been added yet so there are links on each of the new class pages that have no targets yet.
Also, a big pile of Gamemastery Guide stuff that was missed in the first round has now also been added to the site. The content is sprinkled throughout, where it seemed to make the most sense.
So I saw the antipaladin class variant and I must say...
Thank you.
The fallen good guy has been an archetype in fiction since before the authors knew it was fiction. An ultimate evil to balance the ultimate good is one of the greatest dynamics in storytelling. As the closest to an ultimate good walking around in Golarion, the paladin needed that ultimate evil to fall to and to fight against.
Just as the antipaladin needs the paladin to fall to and fight against.
I also thank you for doing it right. It's not a prestige class, it's not watered down into "you can be a paladin of any alignment", and it's not substandard compared to the paladin. It is, in fact, a mirror-match. Ultimate evil capable of standing up to the ultimate good in a fair fight makes both of them stronger.
Thus, in the end, the paladin is not cheapened or lessened in any way because of the existence of the antipaladin. Instead, both paladin and antipaladin have been raised above to play not just a part but the main roles in the oldest story ever told. The battle of Good versus Evil.
It seems to me that this was really rushed out to meet the expected release date, meaning significant content errors are in the released product. I'm rather anxious for the errata doc to be released. Some things (like the Human favored class bonuses) seem exceptionally overpowered, while others seem relatively balanced. I'm hoping that this is changed as well, as the spontaneous caster thing for Humans is equivalent to half a feat every level.
Ugh, don't like hearing that at all. I would rather they did the same with APG as they did with the Revised version of the Inner Sea and push it back to correct the errors. Sure, you may necessarily not catch all of them, but you shouldn't be putting out a product with significant errors just to meet a deadline.
I hope this doesn't become something more regular with future products.
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It seems to me that this was really rushed out to meet the expected release date, meaning significant content errors are in the released product. I'm rather anxious for the errata doc to be released. Some things (like the Human favored class bonuses) seem exceptionally overpowered, while others seem relatively balanced. I'm hoping that this is changed as well, as the spontaneous caster thing for Humans is equivalent to half a feat every level.
Ugh, don't like hearing that at all. I would rather they did the same with APG as they did with the Revised version of the Inner Sea and push it back to correct the errors. Sure, you may necessarily not catch all of them, but you shouldn't be putting out a product with significant errors just to meet a deadline.
I hope this doesn't become something more regular with future products.
So, there are like a dozen of 5 stars reviews, and you take one person's negative opinion (I say "opinion", because I consider human favclass bonuses NOT overpowered and NOT errata-worthy) and you conclude that the product has "significant errors". /facepalm.
Of course I do think that some things (Inquisitor judgement, Selective Spell) should be errated, but I dare you, in fact I double-dare you to find an RPG sourcebook without any small mistakes.
I already boght the book from Amazon and sincerely don't regret the choice, because is full of goodies, but I've the impression, too, that seems somewhat rushed (maybe for the gencon?).
The 17 level of the inquisitor is outrageous. It screams rushed editing.
The human bonus spell thing is easily fixable: make it a 1/2 spell of one level below.
So, there are like a dozen of 5 stars reviews, and you take one person's negative opinion (I say "opinion", because I consider human favclass bonuses NOT overpowered and NOT errata-worthy) and you conclude that the product has "significant errors". /facepalm.Of course I do think that some things (Inquisitor judgement, Selective Spell) should be errated, but I dare you, in fact I double-dare you to find an RPG sourcebook without any small mistakes.
Ok, maybe I should have said, “if this is the case” (in regards to having significant errors). I will make sure to do that next time, just for yourself.
And apparently you did not read my post over carefully, but I also did say “you don’t necessarily catch all of them (the mistakes).” So indicating, as you said, no company puts out error-free books.
But really getting tired of you slamming my posts, Gorbacz. I only gave my opinion or concern, don’t need or deserve to be put down or ‘facepalmed’ by you.
Just to add to what Gorbacz said I would say that there is no more percent of errata needed for this book then any of Paizo's previous products. There are just so many rules in this book that it feels like a higher percentage. On top of that there are so many new rules that it is easier for some one to look at something and say "Wow that is overpowered." and then declare it "broken" before they have tried it out. It makes it feel like there is a problem with the book because there are so many rules people make these comments about.
I'd say it's a recommended purchase irregardless.
This is for sure. Even if I pointed out some flaws, the book is worthy alone 4 old "completes" and nice random stuff from other 4 old books.
CEO
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I can say unequivocally that we did NOT rush this book out the door. It was given a more thorough going over than almost all of our other books. We took extra time and staff members to make it the best that we could. We made many more passes by both developers and proofreaders than we would most of our other books.
That said, we are human and even if we quintupled the amount of time we spent on this book, errors would still be there. That is just the nature of the beast. Now, if we had a staff of 20,000+ looking at the book, we could probably narrow down the errors to just a few. But we aren't THAT successful yet. :)
I appreciate that everybody wants a perfect book. We do too. But it just isn't going to happen because we aren't robots. And if you want to see how the competition is faring in this regard, check out this thread over on ENWorld.
-Lisa
The book was rushed. There are tons of typos, small erro I'd say it's a recommended purchase irregardless.
I agree here. I pointed out the flaws, but the amount of good stuff is simply outstanding. It's like an old "complete" with the additional good stuff from other 4 old books.
This strikes me as sort of funny. Now that the APG has been released, it seems that the perception is that any player selecting anything other than human for a sorcerer character is being "punished". I can't dispute that cause that's how I see it too. The human's favored class bonus is clearly superior to any others a sorcerer character could choose.
I'm curious; say, if a few weeks ago, your player had approached you and asked you whether, instead of a bonus skill or hit point, his gnome could gain an extra spell known each level, would you have believed it to be a fair and balanced trade off? It hadn't occurred to me to ask my GM because it hardly seems fair to equate spells known with hit or skill points.
Getting a known spell per level seems like it too good but look at what you give up for it. An extra hit point per level which with D6 hit die is extremely useful and more so if you have blood line with claws. Then there is skill points at 2 per level and int is pretty much a stat you won't raise via point buy. I wouldn't dump it but I wouldn't raise it either. Even with the Human extra skill point bonus if I was playing a sorcerer with out claws I'd consider the skill point first. I can blow a feat to get more known spells and that seems the better way to do it since you can get a spell of the level you can cast or 2 if they are lower level spells.
So I don't think a Gnome is getting the short end of the stick. They have many useful abilities over a human like better Constitution, low light vision, a bunch skill bonuses, attack bonus, magic bonuses. Gomes are great sorcerers. Still it is odd that they don't get thier own favored class bonus for sorcerer.
Just as an example, if you assume an error every 3 pages (which would be really good since that would be one ever 2000 to 3000 words) in a 32 page book you would have 10 errors, but in a book the size of the APG you would have 112 errors. Now if you look at a Campaign Setting book, that is mostly fluff, at 64 pages those 20 errors are going to most of the time be in the fluff no big deal, but we are dealing with a 338 page book that is almost all crunch so those errors are a lot more noticeable. We are dealing with what a 200,000 to 250,000 word book.
And it is pure awesome. :)
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The book was rushed. There are tons of typos, small errors and vague phrasing. Consider, for instance, Reflexive Shot for the Zen Archer. What does it do, precisely?
It allows you to make AoOs using your bow (you can't AoO with ranged weapons, normally) against the same squares that you threaten with your unarmed strike (adjacent ones, unless Enlarge Person is out). The phrasing isn't vague at all.
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Just as an example, if you assume an error every 3 pages (which would be really good since that would be one ever 2000 to 3000 words) in a 32 page book you would have 10 errors, but in a book the size of the APG you would have 112 errors. Now if you look at a Campaign Setting book, that is mostly fluff, at 64 pages those 20 errors are going to most of the time be in the fluff no big deal, but we are dealing with a 338 page book that is almost all crunch so those errors are a lot more noticeable. We are dealing with what a 200,000 to 250,000 word book.
And it is pure awesome. :)
What he said.
I can blow a feat to get more known spells and that seems the better way to do it since you can get a spell of the level you can cast or 2 if they are lower level spells.
You can take a feat, toughness, to gain +1 hit point per level. But there's no feat I can think of that will grant a sorcerer +1 skill known per level.
The art for the Cacophonous Call spell. Page 209. God, I love this game.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Because I've got nothing better to do, I just copy-pasted my APG pdf into Word, and then removed the personalisation line. This results in:
Pages 454
Words 244,433
Characters (no spaces) 1,191,853
Characters (with spaces) 1,404,481
Paragraphs 31,588
Lines 32,295
Nice.
And, as mentioned, since most of that is crunch, not fluff, when a boo-boo does crop up, it's out there for all the world to see, not the kind of flavor text detail that only Charles Evans would find like the error-seeking cyborg bloodhound that he is! :)
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To what extent does unclear rules text etc get rectified between printings?
I probably won't be able to purchase the APG until it's in its next printing, so I'm wondering if some of the nitpicks will be non-issues for me?
That's a good question. I've got the pdf and I'm lining a print copy up for a christmas present - will there be a second printing by then? Will it have errata?
There is nothing about this book that feels rushed to me. On the contrary, it screams pure awesome. The amount of options is simply staggering.
Yes, there are some passionate folks who may not like some of the options, or wish some were different, but that should not detract anyone from purchasing this book.
With regard to typos ---- give me a frickin' break. No book will be perfect, period. But on top of that you have a large book that is entirely crunch, which must increase the chance of a little typo here and there, so the fact that there are so few typos communicates to me the care and passion that went into the book. None of these typos should detract from the overall enjoyment of the book. If they do, you should probably take a deep breath and/or stop reading books altogether.
Best.
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To what extent does unclear rules text etc get rectified between printings?
I probably won't be able to purchase the APG until it's in its next printing, so I'm wondering if some of the nitpicks will be non-issues for me?
The Errata are fully intergrated into the additional printings - My Corebook is second printing, and has the first set of errata (but obviously not the second). For examples of what goes into the errata look at the ones for the core book and bestiary
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I had a question on how spell Blessing of Fervor's last choice works.
Is it:
1. Anybody can choose to cast a 2nd lvl or lower spell
2. Anybody can choose to cast a 2nd lvl or lower spell if their class could cast said spell at that level
3. Anybody can choose to cast a 2nd lvl or lower divine spellIt is worded so ambiguously as to cause confusion. Personally I believe it is meant to mean the first one but everybody I have talked to(irl) seem to believe it is a mistake and believe otherwise.
The answer is #2.
The spell doesn't let you do things that are impossible for you (like casting spells when you have no spellcasting ability); it simply lets you do more things than you can already do BETTER (to wit, add one of the listed metamagic effects to a spell you are casting).
This book is frickin' awesome
just saying
Ok Have a simple question. Why is it that in the new Combat Style for rangers that Shield proficiency in the list?
Weapon and Shield:
If the ranger selects weapon and shield style, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Focus, Shield Proficiency, and Shield Slam.
At 6th level, he adds Saving Shield* and Shield Master to the list.
At 10th level, he adds Bashing Finish* and Greater Shield Focus to the list.
Should that be Tower Shield Proficiency? Just wondered, since they get shield proficiency as part of there basic weapon and Armour proficiency.
Have to agree with MerrikCale. The APG is fantastic.
Just got my APG from amazon today (sorry, but had a gift card) :)
Along the veins of the PH2 just way better balance, more interesting options, classes, etc. This book will get good use. Kudos to all involved.
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RE: the Oracle class, the Bonus Spell progression for the Life mystery is 3,5,7,9, etc. The Bonus Spell progression for ALL of the other mysteries is 2,4,6,8, etc. Is the Life mystery really different? In the Mystery section, it states "at 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter..."
Mentioned many times, both in here and in the APG Eratta thread. The general opinion is that it's a typo, but nothing has been confirmed
Serious people who do serious work recognize that perfection isn't possible.. In fact, one could say "perfection is the enemy of the good."
On the flip side, serious people who do serious work also tend to be serious about proofreading and editing. They don't scribble something on the back of a cocktail napkin after six or so martinis and hand it in as "finished work."
We're somewhere in the middle here. Given the speed with which Paizo cranked out the APG, a lot of mistakes and general ambiguity were pretty well inevitable -- there wasn't enough time for playtesting and multiple drafts. But that's not to say the final product couldn't stand to be cleaned up a bit.