Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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This is where consistent cultivation of GMs comes into play.
If you have 5-10 regular attendees, you shouldn't have just one GM.
If you do, then a ban on 7-player tables isn't the problem.
It's one table. Just because you have an extra GM doesn't actually mean you have the tablespace. The was the whole impetuous of this thread. We don't have the tablespace and other venues have different issues.
How do you live in a state that has similar if not worst issues than Boston and not hit table caps?
And I am sorry you have had such a poor experience with your local VO corps. Not all VO corps are the same.
Ehhhh.... It's as good as it was bad. Even with it's issue I'd rank as one of the best regions. Also to give context as to why I brought up that issue was that I was thinking of how bad playing with strangers can get and well giant abject disaster is it.
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How do you live in a state that has similar if not worst issues than Boston and not hit table caps?
When 1 in 8 Americans is a Californian I'm not going to pretend to speak for the entire state, but I think the behaviors that are required in more population dense areas are communication, expectations and understanding.
Communication: when everyone knows you have a table limit, you can't walk in last minute and fain ignorance. This involves informing the venue, posting it wherever you advertise your games, and making sure all regular attendees are aware. If you have to cancel, pull out of the signup so someone else can attend. If you want to bring a friend, you'll know whether there's room. If a newbie sees a poster and asks the clerk behind the counter, they give the appropriate answer.
Expectations: respect for the rules and requests of the venue and attendants. If I'm waitlisted, I'm waitlisted. If the cap is X, I expect the cap to be X. If you require 2 hours before game to cancel and everyone's signed up 30 minutes prior, I expect everyone to be there.
Understanding: this comes from living in a region where things sell out and events are first come, first serve. If I missed the Warhorn signup, I know I should signup earlier next time. I can do other things. Likewise, if a GM has an emergency, I know either someone steps up so everyone can have fun or everybody goes home.
Most of these come from just being human but sometimes I suppose regular training and exposure is required.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South
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The key is a reasonable dm to player ratio. If you have DMs with prepped ish scenarios it doesn't matter how many people show up until you run out of flat rolling surfaces.
The problem in a lot of 1 table locations is that there is no second table available...
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The key is a reasonable dm to player ratio. If you have DMs with prepped ish scenarios it doesn't matter how many people show up until you run out of flat rolling surfaces.The problem in a lot of 1 table locations is that there is no second table available...
Our venue was a small comic shop and i feel the pain. We had to get very creative with our table set ups. I think I still have a piece of 2008 he man masterwork figure imprinted on my back...
But yes, 1 physical table is going to mean 1 person going home if you can't split if you cant find an alternative. (going to someones house, occupy dennys, throw an old door over the comics, etc.)
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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How do you live in a state that has similar if not worst issues than Boston and not hit table caps?When 1 in 8 Americans is a Californian I'm not going to pretend to speak for the entire state, but I think the behaviors that are required in more population dense areas are communication, expectations and understanding.
Communication: when everyone knows you have a table limit, you can't walk in last minute and fain ignorance. This involves informing the venue, posting it wherever you advertise your games, and making sure all regular attendees are aware. If you have to cancel, pull out of the signup so someone else can attend. If you want to bring a friend, you'll know whether there's room. If a newbie sees a poster and asks the clerk behind the counter, they give the appropriate answer.
Expectations: respect for the rules and requests of the venue and attendants. If I'm waitlisted, I'm waitlisted. If the cap is X, I expect the cap to be X. If you require 2 hours before game to cancel and everyone's signed up 30 minutes prior, I expect everyone to be there.
Understanding: this comes from living in a region where things sell out and events are first come, first serve. If I missed the Warhorn signup, I know I should signup earlier next time. I can do other things. Likewise, if a GM has an emergency, I know either someone steps up so everyone can have fun or everybody goes home.
Most of these come from just being human but sometimes I suppose regular training and exposure is required.
Yeah I would certainly say, none of this sounds uniquely American or Californian.
We make a point of asking people:
- Sign up, so you know there's a spot for you.
- Sign up for the waitlist, so we know there's demand for another table.
- Sign up well in advance, so that we have the best opportunity to arrange the best session for everyone.
There are some people in our lodge who due to work can't commit that far ahead of time. But they accept that if they show up unannounced, there's no guarantee they'll be seated.
Premier Event Coordinator
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My experience is this is simply a matter of setting expectations and training. iMHO, if you routinely have people showing up that didn’t register beforehand, then you have an organizational problem that needs to be addressed. Create a Warhorn site. Advertise in the venue. Communicate clearly. Stick to your expectations. If someone decides not to follow instructions, the chances they will be sent away go up significantly. Be welcoming, but don’t be a door mat. Sometimes it means having uncomfortable conversations with people who don’t want to follow the rules and demonstrate a disrespect for the large investment that the organizer and GM made to provide them a game to play. It’s the old saying, “you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make ‘em drink.” Sometimes, sending someone home is the best thing you can do for them. Good luck and as always...
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
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Also, do note that no one outside of your area knows what you actually do. Did you split into two tables or play a 7 person table? I don't know, nor do I really care.
Do what works for your home group and make sure that the paperwork checks out.
If you truly believe that playing a 7 person table will be the best for your group so that all have fun, then do it. The point of this whole thing is to have fun, not get caught up in rule minutia.
If you'd like creative ideas to solving such problems feel free to private message me. I'm sure that together we'll be able to deal with unique situations.
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The key is a reasonable dm to player ratio. If you have DMs with prepped ish scenarios it doesn't matter how many people show up until you run out of flat rolling surfaces.The problem in a lot of 1 table locations is that there is no second table available...
That's not Paizo's problem, though.
If 4 people show up to play a board game that lists "2-4 people", and a 5th walks in after the first 4 setup, that's not the fault of the board game's publisher.
What could happen is that, next time, those 5 people realize there's a demand for two board games and establishes a second meeting location.
Which is why there are so many gaming locations within a short drive for me to choose from.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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My experience is this is simply a matter of setting expectations and training. iMHO, if you routinely have people showing up that didn’t register beforehand, then you have an organizational problem that needs to be addressed. Create a Warhorn site. Advertise in the venue. Communicate clearly. Stick to your expectations. If someone decides not to follow instructions, the chances they will be sent away go up significantly. Be welcoming, but don’t be a door mat. Sometimes it means having uncomfortable conversations with people who don’t want to follow the rules and demonstrate a disrespect for the large investment that the organizer and GM made to provide them a game to play. It’s the old saying, “you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make ‘em drink.” Sometimes, sending someone home is the best thing you can do for them. Good luck and as always...
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
Didn't we get snarked out for using Warhorn not too recently because it's completely inaccessible to a non zero part of our community? Like I get no such thing as an ideal solution but I think it's kind of disingenuous to ignore problems.
Yeah I would certainly say, none of this sounds uniquely American or Californian.
This is going to sound insane but my Venture Captain's venue is a gaming store*, which is next to a gaming store which is next to a gaming store, which in turn is next a gaming store. Every conceivable genre of gaming imaginable is contained in one block. O.o It makes gauging trends odd. For example Organized Plays retail incentive program is useless for a restaurant. Is this strictly a Boston thing or something Organized Play should be aware of?
*Close enough. Technically a hobby store.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Nebraska—Bellevue
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My experience is this is simply a matter of setting expectations and training. iMHO, if you routinely have people showing up that didn’t register beforehand, then you have an organizational problem that needs to be addressed. Create a Warhorn site. Advertise in the venue. Communicate clearly. Stick to your expectations. If someone decides not to follow instructions, the chances they will be sent away go up significantly. Be welcoming, but don’t be a door mat. Sometimes it means having uncomfortable conversations with people who don’t want to follow the rules and demonstrate a disrespect for the large investment that the organizer and GM made to provide them a game to play. It’s the old saying, “you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make ‘em drink.” Sometimes, sending someone home is the best thing you can do for them. Good luck and as always...
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
Warhorn is a great site for those of us "in the know" about Warhorn. It's not necessarily the best place to recruit or reach new players. I have tried a number of methods to recruit.
- First, I have a good relationship with my local game stores. I try to communicate with them regularly and they know they can point a new player in my direction and know how to reach me.
- Second, I list many of our events on Meetup. In the meetup event, I include a link to our Warhorn page and explain that we manage RSVPs through it.
- We have a local area general RPG Facebook group and a local area PFS Facebook group, which I try to track regularly.
- I have tried using both GameFor and RPGGeek as well, but with less success.
None of those can account for the game store drop-in who walks up to the table and asks "Can I play?" I will try hard to work those people in. And when we return to in-store games locally, I will have PF1 - The Confirmation or PF2 - The Sandstone Secret available as a quick and easy game to run. In case we can make a table split work.
All this to say, I will bend over backwards. However, I still am in favor of the 6 person limit to PF2. Having run a number of games with 6 people who are on the cusp of high-tier, I recognize how much of a challenge it must be to write challenging scenarios for those groups in that seam. Limiting the table to 6 is a way to limit the variables and makes complete sense to me.
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Premier Event Coordinator
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Warhorn is a great site for those of us "in the know" about Warhorn. It's not necessarily the best place to recruit or reach new players. I have tried a number of methods to recruit.
Again, I was just using Warhorn as an example. Let’s focus on the point, not the supporting details. We’re really not talking about recruiting. The main issue seems to be related to unexpected walk in players.
I used to organize a lot of store games and I rarely had a completely unexpected person show up and we generally showed growth. The only ways the player would even know when and where to show up for such a game was if they were told about it by someone who already knew about it. This was almost always someone who was active in our group. Or they read one of our fliers which included all the instructions they need to join the group. Or they heard it from a store employee, who would answer their questions and point them to the fliers. So, in the vast majority of the cases if a player simply showed up, on game day, without anyone being aware they were coming, it generally meant they either didn’t bother to read any of the information we provided for them or they intentionally ignored it.
Now, on the rare occasion where that person truly had a legitimate reason for creating these circumstances, okay, we can chalk it up and move on, no harm no foul. But, on the more frequent case where they clearly didn’t bother to help us help them, I have never lost a moment’s sleep about sending that person packing. If that makes me a villain, so be it. Like most organizers, I will bend over backwards to get you into a game. I’ve been know to give up my own seat, even if I had to pay for it, so someone else could play. But, if you demonstrate a lack of personal responsibility and appreciation for the effort that the organizer, GM, and other players went to, to make the event function and to have fun, then move on, there are plenty of other games. I’m happy to point them out.
Whether the hard cap is six players, seven players, whatever, if you are having a problem with unexpected players showing up at your games and cannot get past it, I encourage you to reach out to other organizers who are successful and see if they can help you resolve it. Maybe you are overlooking something.
Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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So returning to the topic, The change in max table size is here for the at least the next season (I think, no inside knowledge) so start collecting your data.
Keep track of players that had to be turned away because a 7th seat was not allowed.
Encourage the players who don't normally frequent the boards to come and express their thoughts (because that is what caused this to change to be made in the first place I am willing to bet).
Express your thoughts to the VOs directly because that is what we are here for.
But most of all, have fun playing.