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was looking over the City of Fallen Sky again and looked over the campaign chronicle and saw this gem...

Fugitive from Numeria: You spent time studying the secrets of the Silver Mount and have acquired both a rudimentary understanding of its cosmic technology and the enmity of a dangerous organization. When you would be targeted or affected by an activated magical item, as a free action you gain a +2 bonus to AC and on saving throws against that item’s effects for 1d4 rounds. When this boon is used, cross it off your Chronicle sheet.

Cosmic Technology... Humm.....

So a few years ago I read City of Fallen Sky, just to get some ideas about Numeria so I could run a campaign... ( )

The one thing that bugged me though was there were no jungles in Numeria, it was all desert and mesa. I was thinking about weird ass alien jungles over growing ancient or alien civilizations (like in Thundarr!!!) and there just wasnt any. Without weird ass alien jungles, I cant have dubstepping cyber-raptors, If I cant have dubstepping cyber-raptors, I dont want the supplement.

Please designers, put some weird ass alien jungles in there so I can have dubstepping cyber-raptors.


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30 Habits of Highly Unsuccessful DMs

1) Isn’t prepared
2) Can’t wing it.
3) Can’t sell it.
4) Cant act it.
5) Cant make it.
6) No Girls Allowed.
7) Table Management Fail.
8) Cant Cope
9) Cant Say No.
10) Loves the Meta-Game
11) You Want A War…
12) Where the Choo Choo Go?
13) Cannot bend Like a Reed in the Wind…
14) One Skill to Rule Them All
15) Cant You Smell That Smell…
16) Who is Your Daddy...?
17) Your Soaking In It.
18) Cant Hack It.
19) Daddy YUP! YUP!
20) Captain Homebrew!
22) Lawful Anal/Chaotic Stupid
23) Die! Die! Die!
24) The Never Ending Story
25) DM’s Cant Cheat.
26) All Players Cheat.
27) You No Can Haz it!
28) Cheetoist
29) 20-4 meh.
30) Obsessive much?

1) Isn’t Prepared- the adventure is always left at home, or the encounter notes, or something that he desperately needs isn’t available which results in ending the game early or skipping encounters, etc.

2) Can’t wing it- he needs to have absolutely everything written down, and will spend three out of every eight minutes (yes I actually timed a DM like this once) looking up a rule or reading an entry absolutely killing any role playing, suspense, or action built up in-game. Also typically means if the dialog isn’t written down, he cant RP for the antagonists. About the only thing worse than the cant wing it DM is the DM who thinks he can and cant… see no. 18

3) Can’t Sell It-In professional wrestling “selling it” is convincing the audience the punches are real, in D&D it’s describing the scene or the action, in a way with a touch of emotion to really let the players feel like they are in-the moment with their characters. A DM who cant do this lacks an essential skill.

4) Can’t Act- Just has little or no ability to RP, every NPC sounds the same, uses the same speech patterns, uses a lot of modern slang, and the DM will often say something like “well he’s using a British accent but I cant pull it off” or “he sounds short” then speaks in a deep bass tone. Its typical that these DMs also have trait #1 and has to refer to notes or the AP to remember what the NPC needs to say.

5) Cant make it- If the game starts at 6 he doesn’t show till 7:00 if the players start showing up at 7:00 he starts showing up at 8:00, if he cancels a game night, he waits until everyone has changed their plans and is sitting at the table before sending the notice.

6) No Girls Allowed. Happens more than ya’d think, DM cant stop himself from using rude, profane or dirty language/conversations, encourages others to do the same, or simply cant RP with a girl without blushing or quickly changing players. Some DM’s have the same problem with GLBT players (I admit I have a problem with the T, and yah it actually came up once.)

7) Table Management Fail- Just generally cant control player demands, some players get all the spotlight, others get none, slow players never get the nudge, side conversations are loud and endless, game is constantly interrupted by cell phones or other distractions. Often leads to the next habit.

8) Cant Cope- either carpet bags all his anger till it explodes with yelling, cussing and/or throwing dice, or he gets extremely quiet and just reads books or shuts off when the game gets to be too much to manage, when called on this passive aggressive behavior claims its all the player’s fault.

9) Cant Say No- A-typical Monty Hall behavior, dm kinda sucks to begin with then hands out a lot of overpowering magic items, giving incredible amounts of XP, allowing access to feats or advanced class abilities the character cant qualify for to win back the favor of the players. This is often combined with…

10) Loves the Meta Game- yup wash his car get a +5 sword, Give him Pizza get a magic item tailored just for your character, bring an attractive girl to the table and watch her become the favored character of the week, plays favorites, holds grudges and generally cant take criticism without repercussions… often leads to…

11) You Want a War- I’ll give you a war… DM sees the game as a contest between the DM and the Players, and generally the players always loose until he feels guilty and goes all Monty/meta. In his game you’ll have flashbacks of Cartman saying “Respect ma Athorita!”

12) Where the Choo Choo Go? It go wherever the hell the DM wants it to that’s where… Your on the railroad and you cant get off. This DM cant freestyle anything, any attempt to do anything not covered by an AP leads to NPC’s forcing you back into covered territory, loss of everything your character values, world destroying cataclysm, etc. etc, in short if your in his game, neither you nor your characters have free will.

13) Cannot bend Like a Reed in the Wind… you cant solve the puzzle, oh well better spend two sessions going back to town, raiding a library, and getting back again, cant beat the unbeatable BBEG’s init? oh well guess you all die, make new characters. This DM gives you no hints, clues, help, or allowances if you cant tackle some aspect of his game. A little of this can be respected too much and your time is better spent on xbox.

14) One Skill to Rule Them All- DM has a way he likes characters to handle a problem… ONE WAY!, Either the diplomancer is god or everything is a nail to the fighter’s warhammer. DM rarely offers different ways to succeed at an encounter… this is often caboose of the Choo Choo.

15) Cant You Smell that Smell- Ya show up to the game at his place and he hasn’t washed, brushed, shaved, or put on a shirt. The house is filthy, covered in fast food wrappers, maybe the detritus of 100 other gaming sessions, the garbage was last taken out with the previous tenant… and oh.. A hardcore/thrash heavy metal drummer would envy the stink coming off him… Lets be honest, the hobby attracts a lot of anti-social anti-mainstream society types and while I applaud this occasionally there’s always that one guy (player or DM) who just cant take care of basic hygiene needs.

16) Who is Your Daddy… and what does he do… well apparently he’s the DM. This DM is better than you, he’s right, always. He voted for the right candidate in the last election, worships the right god (gods/goddess or is a devout atheist) he cheers for the right sports franchise, and if you disagree with any of his true convictions, you’ll reap the whirlwind buddy, blue bolt, save or die, or just steals your chips and never ever apologizes and will often…

17) Your Soaking in It- “IT” being the preternatural glow of absolute perfection that the DMPC the DM shoved into your party seems to radiate whenever he passes gas. This DM really wants to be a player in a game with a DM as cool as him, one that knows why this absolutely bad ass guy he created needs and deserves to get all the best weapons rewards, xp etc. You can be sure 99% of the time, your adventures will likely be following this NPC around as he buys cities, fights gods etc. Face it if your in this game, your character is just one of the supporting cast to his ultimately cool main character. Probably the best thing you can do is find another game, failing that having your character become Gilligan to his Skipper and learn to endlessly repeat variant phrases of “that guy is SOOOO awesome!”

18) Cant Hack It- Just no system mastery, never knows the rules to the game he’s running, is easily played by a metagaming player, makes quick brash rulings that if you argue about just leads to bigger problems (ala no. 11) has a tendency to DM fiat and is even sometimes correct. Lots of times this is a secondary habit to no. 9, and this DM will occasionally have a lil buddy (husband, wife, friend etc) that has to be around to rules lawyer for him.

19) Daddy YUP! YUP!- when you arrive at this DM’s house you’ll quickly suspect he has a wholesale accounts with Playschool, Pet Depot, and the local goodwill. At this game the game is secondary to the responsibilities of the parent, the kids aren’t in school and the spouse is taking off. Every five minutes one of the droolers is at his knee arms lifted saying “Daddy YUP! YUP!” and demanding to be held, roll the dice, knock your expertly painted tailored minis of the table or better yet finding that the old led orc is missing an arm and it turns into a game of CLUE as to who ate it and needs to go to the ER etc,etc. meanwhile the 4yr old is chasing the screaming 3 yr old, and the three dogs and two cats are fighting over a milk bottle spilled on the couch that the DM just needs “a few minutes” to deal with. If you’re at this game, you’re now a walk on cast member of this guy’s own personal sit com, bout the best thing you can expect is that in-between “incidents” you might get to game a little bit, and there will probably be a barbeque and beer… BYOM! (no tofu allowed!)

20) Here I come to save the day!- This system sucks and Captain homebrew is on his way. Captain Homebrew really wishes he was a game designer rather than just a DM. Before you ever get to the game this guy has sent you gigs of his tweaker manifesto aka homebrew world/rules, and tells you that’s just a smidgeon of what you should read before your first session. He hates the magic system so he made his own, hated the standard ways of rolling characters so he’s got a stat/feat/class ability point buy system, hated the skills and combat system so he’s changed it to the resolution system of some game no one’s ever heard of complete with chips to spend, dice pools, and homemade combat cards. The bad news is if your playing in his game your really not playing the game he advertised as xyz edition with “some” homebrew rules, and you’ve got no idea what to expect. The good news is if you jump on board the crazytown express and agree with his mad ramblings and rants he’ll likely give you a character that has been min/maxed according to his twisted system that will absolutely pwon anything else at the table… (except for his NPC… no.17)

21) I WANT TO ROCK! This Dm requires the right music to set the stage for the game… get ready, its either going to be some Danish unholy black deathmetal bands, or darkwave trance. You’ll be lucky if his speakers only go to 11.

22) Lawful Anal/Chaotic Stupid- you don’t know how to play your character but this DM is gonna teach you. This DM generally demands that the game be serious to the extreme, has little sense of humor, and he has his own very ridged ideas on how races, alignments, background traits etc. MUST be played and failure to play to his sense of right and wrong will lead to the spinning of the great Gigaxian Wheel of Repercussions. Nobodies a winner, bring on the blue bolts and xp loss.

23) DIE! DIE! DIE! no he doesn’t use too many dice… he just wants your PCs to die. His game is lethal in the extreme. More like a game of Paranoia than a game of whatever it was you wanted to play, where if your character lived longer than half a session you should consider yourself lucky.

24) The Never Ending Story- This DM is the exact opposite of no.23, nothing in this game will likely ever kill you and all combat is usually avoided. The DM loves sticking japananime type plots into the game, choc full of mysteries you’ll never solve, twilightesque romanticized NPCs and of course non-stop conflict free story telling. And whatever you do… don’t ask them about their art, poetry, or spiritual views…

25) DM’s Cant Cheat- If ya get the feeling rolling a 1 is not much different than rolling a 20 on any knowledge or influence roll this is probably your DM. Secretly he may claim the rules tell him to roll behind his indestructible DM screen and to fudge the die rolls if it will help the game, but more often than not the truth is more likely that no die roll matters in the least as this guy wants to get to the end of his movie, and is often accompanied by the rationalization that…

26) All Players Cheat- This DM is of the opinion that all players are secretly min/maxing munchkin jerks plotting against him to ruin the game. He may require that all players use a dice tower or he spends as much time as necessary to triple check all figures on any check, stat, roll, etc.

27) You No Can Haz it!- this is the opposite of no.9, you spend three sessions and two party members die to eventually kill a BBEG or mega boss dragon and find the mountainous pile of treasure is made of coppers painted gold and the ancient magic sword is really an illusion or horribly cursed. This Dm tries to give you as little as possible and rewards no successes (possibly due to a strong belief in no. 26), often when you think he may have given you something worthwhile he will complain that it has overpowered you and soon something must come to steal it back or weaken you in some way in the great name of game/PC balance.

28) Cheetoist- the DM is the opposite of no 22, he is a fun first game second DM, he is there to have fun and eat cheetos and if the seriousness of a game interferes with having fun or eating cheetos, something needs to change. This DM has tremendous difficulty addressing any adult or serious topics in the game, the characters and NPCs are typically over the top overdrawn stereotypes, and no effort is made to separate in-game or out of game dialog… unless its funny to do so. Bottom line, this is a goofgame, any desire for in-game seriousness will be punished with out-of-game public humiliation, so don’t try, eat a cheeto and do something stupid that everyone can laugh at and when it gets old (and it will) find a more serious game… or just buy more cheetos.

29) 20-4 Meh. Just a substandard DM in which every game he runs has 20 minutes of fun spread out into 4hrs of gaming. May have elements of all or none of these habits. Either way every week will be a pure meh experience and leave you wondering if there isn’t a better way you could be spending your free time and gas money maybe for years, actually I think this is the worst kind of DM to have.

30) Obsessive Much?- this DM has little or no life, probably spends every waking moment thinking about his game, characters, a new system coming out etc. He’s dangerous in that he has deep seeded largely idealistic views about what a game should or should not contain and what actions any type of player/dm should and should not do. A true onetruewayist. Just expect endless b#@@!ing and criticism. And oh yeah… he probably wrote a list just like this one once upon a time… ;-)

I see the meta game, "hi look, I just created this character because I like the concept, its not as gross as that THW fighter build I saw on the boards, (two feats are different and one is dedicated to a non-combat feature) but I'll adimt it is pretty powerful"

I can recognize a DPR olympian, but what do you say about a player who always brings a character that has been min/maxed in the most favorable way possible towards combat, except for one or two tiny concessions made in the laid out 20th level plan towards non-powergaming.

I'm also sick of a new player who comes in and builds a character based completly around a concept (a prince who became a ranger say) and every character who was based purely on game mechanics makes the player feel his character is pathetic.

how do you address this huge gaping flaw with pathfinder?

I'm looking for a point buy conversion similar to Skills and Powers from 3.0, I remember about a year ago I found two of em but now can't remember the titles or publishers... Can anybody give me a hint?

Hi all, on one of the ferral gnasher threads it mentioned taking druid with this could be awesome. My DM allows any race to have the racial heritage trait, were doing second darkness soon and I was thinking of a dwarf druid/ferral gnasher who would turn into a cave gecko run along the walls and bite the hell out of people...

Any suggestions for how to write this up? how would you maximize wild shape and still get to level 6 gnasher with the most grappling feats?

Hi all, I was wondering if you could suggest the some ways to write this up... r

I was thinking of going hexcrafter/blackblade because I remembered there was some feat that let you use a touch ability with a melee weapon (cant remember the name now)and the combination of level draining (for a two level dip) +the black blade was just too cool.

but after looking at it, heck if I'm going that route I might as well go all the way.

I was thinking a sorcerer with daemon bloodline would be pretty cool because once your 4th level in this, you can use that insta-ageing to end any ongoing effect with no aging effects.

but what else would you do to optimize this... having that 7th level vampiric touch at will needs some optimization...

Hi, starting second darkness campaign soon. All I know is first half of AP is mostly city 2nd half is all anti-drow.

Right now party has ½ orc barb, asamar paladin, tiefling gunslinger, tiefling bard, a cleric and a couple o melees (don’t remember) there is no dwarf, there is no rogue. DM has said he’d like somebody to play a dwarf to get in with the gasworks foundry and somebody to play a ciphermage.

K had some ideas…

Dwarf, go Cyphermage/universalist for a lev or two then go Forgemaster or vise versa, eventually mystic theurge, would give the DM all the contacts he asks for but, though I’d have awesome crafting, forgemaster seems weak as hell, and I don’t see a point to the cyphermage other than crafting two scrolls a day… is there some other big benefit I’m not seeing here?

Halfling hexcrafter or witch w jinx, & sleep hex, thought he would be cool for a hushman (assassian) could be pretty stealthish but started thinking sleep hex would get useless fast if enemy becomes mainly drow, and I think magic resist becomes a pain in the ass.

Halfling deep walker ranger/rogue filtcher- we need a rogue seems like a fun class, the little bit o ranger would help w the second part of the AP, at 12th I could disarm anything but till then seems a bit weak, and after that wonder how important disarm would be. Just don’t know if this is a good combo for the AP.

Dwarf, druid cave domain, bat shaman or ? was thinking of maybe getting the racial heratige feat for drow then take that spider summoner feat (?) know 2nd half darklands is going to be hard if I or the other player does not pick something like this….

Any other ideas for an anti-drow?

found a thread the other day where a guy claimed he had a build where he could use slight of hand instead of disarm... (and this is the key) at 4th level.

The only way I see to do that is the weapon snachter advanced rogue feat, which of course you only get at 10th.

Is there some other magic item, feat, or class ability that would either...

1) let you get an advanced tallent early?
2) let you use slight of hand skill rather than disarm besides weapon snatcher?

seriously, getting that pop up from windows with the red stop light and sheild saying theres a problem with the website's security cert is annoying, and seeing the web address in deep red every time I turn a page would be frightining if I didnt know anything about the internets.

Just some blogs I found, one extremely anti, one extremely hopeful, and one... well you know /b g/

(warning, very strong language on below address)

ok so the diff I see between elixirs and potions are...

potions can only be made of spells level 3 or lower, that do not have a "personal" target designation, and are created through the brew potion or alchemy skill. (ps the number of spells that actually fall into these limits are pretty small, all of which are listed on d20pfsrd)

Elixirs can be made of any level, any spell, have a single use, and are created using craft wonderous item BUT if you want to create a special elixir/spell not covered in the PF core books it counts as a unique magic item and would require DM review and approval, probably requiring the character to do research before creation. (IE no energy body potion unless the DM gives you permission)


ok, it says that an alchemist can use another alchemist's mutagen, well, if you have "infused mutagen" does that mean that the mutagen is treated like a potion for the new alchemest? IE he can carry it around forever and take it whenever he pleases? maybe even use alchemical allocation?

IE Fizzgit is an alchemst aprentice (lev 1) his master spends the 1,000 gp and gives him an infused feral grand mutagen.

1)does this mean when he uses it the aprentice gets grand mutagen stat boost with the claws and fangs?

2) how long does the effect last (as long as a 20th level alchemist's grand mutagen? or does it only last as long as the 1st level mutagen lasts?)

3) when does he have to take it by? or when does it go innert or does it ever go innert (because another alchemist now possesses it and is empowering it?)

k I'm a little confused, to build an alchemical golem costs 3,000 GP in 1000 lbs of alchemical gear as raw material.

if so why is the cost 18,000 if you have the capacity to cast the spells? (is that for the time it takes to actually build the thing?)

further... if you want to give the golem the sheild ability... is that halved if you have the skill to add/craft the ability as well?

further... can you use the golem sheild or armor abilities on golems that are larget size than yourself? how does that work? is there a spell you can cast other than "shrink item" to do this? (shrink item only works on non-magical items)

Yes, I read the postings about how you cant use a vestigial limb to use two two-handed weapons...

BUT (!!!)

what about getting two tenticles, and getting this magic item...

Inphidian gauntlets are leather or metal gauntlets that provide a creature (normally an inphidian) with limbs but without humanoid hands a set of fully functional hands. When wearing these gauntlets, the creature can manipulate items normally considered unusable (because the creature lacks hands). The wearer can use its full Strength and Dexterity while wearing these gauntlets. An inphidian cannot use its hand-snake bite attacks while wearing inphidian gauntlets. These gauntlets serve no purpose to creatures with humanoid hands.

so if this is the case, you CAN use your full strength and weild two two-handed weapons... right? the only way I see a flaw in this is if a tenticle is not considered a "limb"

did I win?

ok, you can get an improved familiar "arbiter" which is an "inevitable" which is construced from material parts and "shares traits with constructs" does that mean if you have craft construct you can modify an arbiter? an arbiter would make a hell of a breastplate...

Hi all, my character just died for a really stupid reason, now I gotta build a new character and I'm wondering...

How would you build a 9th level character who could walk right into the BBEG's lair, get jumped by everything, possibly set off every type of trap, get targeted by every type of spell/damage, etc., run, and live?

I did do some forum searching on this, and got some good ideas, one was the implanted ioun stone of regeneration,(so even if you did die you can come back) another was get diehard and deathless feats, maybe toughness and improved toughness...

I was considering a beastmorph/viv to get some good combat output with fast heal etc, so I could devote more feats to this sort of thing, but none of these address save or die type spells, stat drain, or covers how you might escape.

I'm assuming a spell/item/class ability combo that would work, on another thread somebody mentioned theres a way to put up an anti-magic shell that does not effect you (though didn't go into detail) but I figure theres gotta be some kind of way to do this assuming your focused on surviving just about anything for just a round or three and GTFO.

any ideas? non-corp? illusions? anything?

Hey all

I've got a new character slightly based on Peter O'toole from "My Favrote Year" and the movie Arthur. I'm offering the DM a % based table on what happens if players join this character for a night of drinking (rather than role playing it) very similar to what happened in the hangover 1 and 2 movies... can you give me any more suggestions to the table?

any roll on the table can be undone by spending the next 48hrs away from the party, likewise the DM can alter any outcome within 48hrs.

first roll a d6 1-3 no chage, 4-6 gain a distinguishing feature
(missing tooth, very poor tattoo, loose half a finger, etc. DM's choice) this does not get undone.

Gain a very strange forign follower who does not speak any local language
Married roll randomly terrible or perfect
Loose a magic item.
Gain a magic item.
Gain an animal companion
Become responsible for an orphan or disabled senior.
Remember revealing an extremely well kept secrete, may or may not
remember to who.
Gain important insight, may or may not remember from who.
Greatly angered an important person of power
Greatly aided an important person of power
Develop a new drug addiction
Find the strength to overcome a personal flaw (or if none exist roll again)
Achieve victory in some game or challenge that will become a greatly
popular bardic song.
Commit some act of embarassment that will become a greatly popular bardic song.
Find true faith in a new god IE change religion.
Slightly anger a god or powerful extra planar being.
Responsible for some large act of destruction (fire riot etc)
Responsible for some large act of chairty or heroism (save a church
from fire, etc)
double your GP
Loose all GP
wind up in a far away land
Imprisoned- you will have to contact friends to bail you out of the theives guild, guard house etc.
Accused of a crime you did not commit.
Accised of a crime you did commit.
roll twice
roll three times

ok, a few questions here...

about size
1) when a beastmorph alch chooses abilities from alter self or beast shape, can he choose to alter his size? (would this be counted as an ability of the beast shape?)
2) if the beastmorph is a small creature already, and size is considered an ability, would that mean the beastmorph could move to tiny (if small was the animal size) or diminuitive (if the animal was tiny?)

3) when a beastmorph chooses and animal (such as a merman) to mimic, and chooses swim as an ability, does that mean the character can now breathe underwater? or if he chooses a creature with fly, does that mean he can fly at a low oxygen atmosphere if the animal can do so?

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

ok, a few questions here...

about size
1) when a beastmorph alch chooses abilities from alter self or beast shape, can he choose to alter his size? (would this be counted as an ability of the beast shape?)
2) if the beastmorph is a small creature already, and size is considered an ability, would that mean the beastmorph could move to tiny (if small was the animal size) or diminuitive (if the animal was tiny?)

3) when a beastmorph chooses and animal (such as a merman) to mimic, and chooses swim as an ability, does that mean the character can now breathe underwater? or if he chooses a creature with fly, does that mean he can fly at a low oxygen atmosphere if the animal can do so?

Hi all you saw needful things right? well how would you create a young Tiefling max von syndow with those kinds of abilities?

read a posting about a diplomancer type character on this thread...

debating between summoner (to summon a succubus like assistant, very high CHA/skills in bluff dip etc. for aid) or just go for bard (maybe a few dips in summoner for the.. ahhem... assistant)

Didnt know if there was some kind of charm build that would work better...

Is there a way to summon or create items that this character could sell or trade?

I figured I'd make him Chilaxian, worshiper of Asmodeus, didnt know if there was a cleric build that could benifit this...

any advice would be appreciated..

side note: in another campaign we had a characer like this meet our party and give us a device that if we were ever in a dire situation and needed some help would summon him to us, he would save us in exchage for signing a little contract, we did it and it lead to a 2 yr long campaign trying to fufill the contract, but it sure was an awesome hook... what item could do that same thing in PF maybe with a secondary group teleport item? and is there anything that could put an area into time stasis while the group discussed this? I'm sorta thinking he teleports in when the deathtrap is filling with sand the characters cant stop, pops the stasis, offers the contract and lets the PC's discuss it, then if they agree teleports them all out...

So I'll likely be playing in our first game of this two weeks, I havent read the adventure, and our DM is not letting us read the player handouts (says there are spoilers in there)

I have no idea how much RP there is vs combat, (but would like to get an idea) I know theres undead and a plague of somekind...

I like characters who are useful in figuring out the plot (a few of the main skills) and who are good in combat.

what class/race/build maybe even background? do you think would do extra awesome in this AP?

Inquisitor? damphire? necromancer? witch? what?

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Controlling Powergamers in Pathfinder

Since we all know and agree there are HUGE balance issues, and min/maxed optimized characters with insanely unbalanced abilities are very easy to create, and after level 12 many power combos can effectively one shot most AP encounters, on another post I proposed getting rid of (most) feats, AOO’s and multi attacks to help balance the game and speed up combat. This was met with much flame. Essentially breaking down to

a) Its impossible
b) It won’t work because there are too many other core abilities (scorching ray spell etc.) that would be affected.
c) It wont really work because there are too many other ways to unbalance the game.
d) It would not really be pathfinder, and essentially you’re creating an entirely new system pathfinder players wont want to play.

I decided they were absolutely right. So rather than just hating on PF forever and never running or playing again, I figured I’d ask more helpful questions to solve the problem of powergaming.

Take in mind, anyone could just say “well you look over their character and if it’s too powerful just say no” but that does not account all the time the player put into building his character or the fact that just about every instance of opted min/maxing is not only accepted but encouraged by the rules.

So ultimately,

If you were going to run a game and wanted to give players a set of directions and/or restrictions that would stop any character created from “greatly” unbalancing the game, at any time during his/her progression… what would those directions/restrictions be? Or, (If your not up to that challenge)… what is one direction/restriction you feel should be on that list?

Hi all, I've generally found that many of the combat feats, AOO's and multipule attacks are slowing down the game. I am considering dropping these and merging the combat system with the combat and manuver system from Hero Games.

for those who arent familar with the Hero Games system, players may make a full move, or half move and attack.. typically no more than one attack per phase or round (though there are abilities that allow more than one attack to hit based on the first die roll ala double shot, autofire etc, I would use this for two weapon fighers etc.) players may act before their point of init by pulling their next action to perform a defensive action (but not attack). players "may" use manuvers like "covered" that allow them to make an attack if a circumstance comes up (like somebody casting a spell or walking into a line of fire) but otherwise there are no AOO's (but it takes their action to set this up.) Players may delay their stated action if they win init but if they do not act by the end of the round they can loose their actions.

the Hero Games manuver and martial arts system also presents a much more dynamic and detailed combat system I think players will enjoy, with much fewer faults and min/maxed exploits.

any thoughts about this? areas where you think this will get me into trouble system wise?

Pathfinder’s dirty dozen

Or half dozen for that matter… well all I’m designing a campaign maybe (possibly) to use in conjunction with Kingmaker.

The idea will be that the characters will be some of the Inner sea’s worst criminals and villains released from prison (ala dungeons) to complete a quest (forge a kingdom etc) this should be similar to both the movie the dirty dozen and the warhammer 40k last chancer novels (loved these! And I really like this idea!)

I’m debating having them come from all over the world, maybe having a central character round them all up from various rulers or having them all come from the same prison.

I’m planning on having them build their own criminals, but possibly, are there low level villains from RotRL or other AP’s that were legendary (and that players would recognize) you might suggest to be allowed as PCs (thinking about some of those twisted half ogres)?

And I have a few more questions…

What kind of authority figure should be in charge of them? (I’m thinking an Inquisitor/oracle with hellacious intimidate… or a Hellknight.)Would you have this person be a player or NPC?

Are there any legendary prisons in the PF universe (cheliax?) What country would authorize this sort of endeavor? (Andoran? Cheliax? Etc?)

How would you control this group? IE. How would you handle evil aligned PC’s being forced to act as a good aligned characters (magic contract? How would the authority figure know if somebody was committing human sacrifices etc? Should I even try to do this… or just let them have fun being evil when away from the eyes of their enforcer?)

Any other suggestions you have would be appreciated…

Hi all, ever since I read a blog from James Slutter last month saying that a Numeria AP was on its way I've been excited... since then I havent heard or thought about it much.

With the ARG coming out, and reading over the "half-construct" and construct racial rules... it got me thinking about Numeria again...

heres what James said on his blog BTW

[–]Slutmiko 3 months ago*

Please expand on Numeria. I don't know how much power you have, but it'd be really great if you could bring that up at a meeting or something. That is my single favorite place in Golarion, I'm not aware of any books that expand upon what's written in the Inner Sea World Guide about it.

EDIT: Also, please put a stat block on that giant mechanical minigun-wielding scorpion that's on the Numeria page of the ISWG.

[–]jameslsutterAMA Author[S] 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago

Can do! And actually, the thing with Numeria isn't that we don't want to play with it--it's that we all want to play with it so much that we want to make sure we do it right. :) In any case, it's very much a cornerstone of our Big Plans For Things To Come....

so... Numeria is a cornerstone of Paizo's big plans for things to come... I'm not sure exactly what that means but I shure would like to hear about an AP release date or at least a hinting of what the AP will be like...

The most stupid things a party has ever done…

The Best Plan Ever…

We decided to take the ranger’s bounty on the ancient evil bog monster, described as being larger than a house with a giant maw.

I’m playing a friebolg (forget the right name, the humanoid that can get large sized from 2e) druid. The plan was that I shape shift into a giant steer, feign injury, and wait at the side of the deep deep swamp. When the giant bog monster surfaces the other players leap from the darkness and kill it.

We wait and sure enough the bog monster shows up. what we didn’t expect is it’s fast as hell and we all roll crappy on init. It swallows me whole, and immediately starts submerging, the other players each get one attack off before its gone and have no way to follow…

Best plan ever…

Most memorable PC vs. PC kills

Just wanted to hear some good stories…


We had been captured by a new race called “draylanders” which were 8ft tall LE Romans basically, and forced to fight in the arena complete with gladiator weapons and armor nobody was proficient in, and not permitted to use magic.

Though we had defeated the monster thing they put in there with us, the demanding Draylanders still wernt satisfied (apparently because none of us had died)…

Two of us were forced to fight each other, my character was a pit fighter and had some good unarmed skills, the Palli unfortunate for him did not, eventually I grappled him and put him in a head lock at 1 hp.

I had a “Feign Death” like ability, and the Palli was expecting me to let him escape and try and pull one over on the Draylanders… but I was CN and when the thumbs came down to kill the palli, I looked over at the other players who all had “I dunno?” kind of expressions on their faces… I considered the hundred or so archers drawn and pointing arrows at me, I looked over at the Palli player sitting across from me and he looked a bit concerned… and I told the DM- “well… I guess I snap his neck”

There was yelling, and anger, they just could not believe I actually did it, but eventually I explained… “Hey, I’m Chaotic Neutral and not killing him would have put me at a big risk, besides… they said they’d release us and let us keep our stuff… this way I get that sword of his that I’ve just been waiting for…” and all agreed I had played totally in-character…

just wanted a little post about funny character concepts that worked...

heres two...

the chaotic evil priest that, besides carrying around a kitten in a cage to torture (and heal and torture and heal etc) had cause light wounds at range with no verbal component.

he waited in the gladiator arena for a guy to climb the high steps to the cheap seats carrying drinks and food and when he got to the top cast the cause light wounds spell that had him tumble down breaking every bone in his body... this was the ult CE character I remember from any of my games...


the "pesant hero" half giant...

slightly retarded half giant with a ring of charisma (18) who was known to everyone in the community, bards would sing songs about him like he was paul bunyon. (kit from 2e)

In truth he was a semi bi-polar alcoholic and prone to fits of rage, but no matter how screwed up the things he did was... everyone cast him as the hero not wanting to ruin the fairy tale of his backstory, or because they felt sorry for him due to his retardation (and also the benifit of having an 18 cha.. everyone assumed justification or sympathy)

whenever he felt (right or wrong) that somebody needed an old fasioned ass whoopin, the player would click the CD player to play "I walk the line" from Johny Cash... you'd hear that twangy music and the other players would roll their eyes knowing what came next.

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Super Powered Fantasy vs. High Fantasy- warning… Grognard rant ahead...

Ok so were playing the rise of the runelords AP, were in the tunnels beneath Sandpoint and the guardian is attacking us in the hallways… the combat has taken not one but two gaming sessions and were still not done with it.

The rogue character is attacking, he rolls and says “I don’t think I hit” then people start calling out modifiers, don’t forget the + whatever for the bards inspire courage, don’t forget the protect from evil, don’t forget the blankidyblank, we then do a lot of adding and subtracting and arguing and then he says “ok then I think I hit” and the Gm goes “yeah but your forgetting about..” and another few minutes of diving into the rules to see what the actual modifiers are… we finally establish that he hit with his first attack and he’s rolling like 4d6, and 8d8, a couple of D4’s and a few more dice… he starts adding these up and then the modifiers start getting named again, then the DM is using the damage reduction and doing more math on his side… and now we got three more attacks… and then the next character gets to start rolling, adding, and arguing, and gods forbid he casts a spell and needs to break out the other three books…

After another hour of this, I look up at one of the other grogs at the table and ask… “Do you remember when we used to play D&D… this is my fighter’s round… “I roll to hit with my battle axe” and roll a d20, then roll a D8, and say “with strength and magic that’s 12 points… next” he guffaws and says “yup, and he was considered a total bad ass….especially if he was getting (zomg) two (!!!) attacks a round.”

Later we started talking about other differences… the level dipping, trait and talent min-maxed characters of the new games… about how soon two of our players were going to start new “dragonkin” characters…

I mentioned about how one of the things I truly hated about 4e was characters flying, teleporting, and turning invisible at 1st level, about how characters were not just fighters and thieves anymore, they were class 5 superheroes wearing chain mail… to accentuate this I mentioned how I think my next character should be a shape shifting ninja, with a Technic League cyber arm, firing a gatling gun, from his T-Rex special mount… (woot!)

I mean seriously guys… when did playing a “fantasy” game stop being enough? Why is it that we need to have giant databases on archetypes and prestige classes, mile long lists of hundreds of talents or special abilities, rules for creation of your own magic items, spells, and constructs… It used to be if you wanted to run a different sort of character, you appealed to the DM and he said yea or nay and made up the rules on the spot, now we gotta have piles of books and internet search engines to look up all the options… 50 page class optimization threads on forums…

Agh… I don’t know if D&D Next will solve all these issues but I sure hope something does and soon…

And PS- I don’t need to hear “well dig up your old books and go play em” I live in a small town with a small gamer circle, we play what the other 8 or so gamers in town want to play, and I’m not a DM (player only) and have no desire to try and find younger new players/DMs to “go retro”

with the Numeria AP coming out (relatively) soon I have been thinking of a few numerian characters or NPC's I wanted to write up... any random advice would be appreciated...

1) nano user- ok, so what would a silver mountain druid be like? could you summon gearsmen robots etc? for nanotech- using swarms (little robots) and some TK abilities here...

2) Technic League cybernetic Assassin- was thinking of monk and using the construct rules to give him extra arms etc... how hilarious would it would be if after the characters beat the assassin, no matter what they did, the adamantine limbs lit up and started dragging themselves back together again.. wanted him to look like an anamatronic actor with his fake skin ripped off... maybe after they discover he can look like anyone...

3) Technic League machine watcher- an inquisitor who hunts down all that secrete tech the technic league does not want falling into anyone else's hands...

Hi all

First off I am totally new to 3.5/PF and I'm not great at math or min/maxing that said, I’m just entering an 8th lev PF game and they need a fighter, pretty much every character in the party is human (one half elf, and one min/maxed lizardman barbarian) so I wanted to bring in a non-human.

I don’t like elves, the DM has a rep of being brutal to half orks, and with my “find it, smash it, sell its stuff” play style I like it kinda limits me to the gruff dwarf, but I really hate all the short jokes you get when you play a dwarf.

So I endeavored to find a way to make a dwarf fighter who uses Enlarge Person potions, and a viable way to make this very combat effective (because with the falchion swinging crit all the time lizard man, the DM is having to throw obscene melee at us and I don’t want to feel like the most pathetic fighter in the group).

Enter the Enlarged sheild-bashing pole arm tripping dwarf.

So I found this “tripping fighter alchemist of doom” build (scroll down to see the final version) PG/advice/trippingFighterAlchemistOfDOOOM

and for a better explanation here… gsbs/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1#

“For this build to be optimised, you need a potion of heroism (the higher the level the better). Then you are using the 2nd level alchemical allocation formula (you can use this formula twice per day at 4th lvl Alchemist) to allow use of the potion without expending it. The Extend Potion discovery then doubles the duration. You also have 4 uses of 4 minutes of Enlarge Person per day from your 1st level Alchemist Formulae.”

So though I don’t exactly understand how mechanically this works, its clear he can suck up a massive heroism potion, and 4 times per day be giant sized for 4 rounds (most major encounters in a given session.)

Now the author of this is using “Pole Arm Mastery” to get his massive amount of trips in a 30 ft enlarged circle, but he’s using both hands and cant shield bash…. Which is something I’d like to be able to do if it won’t cut back on the effectiveness too much.

So I’m wondering what would be most combat effective.

1) Should I ditch the pole arm mastery and get phalanx mastery? I assume this would give me the ability to still use the 2 handed pole arm for reach and trips and let me shield bash… but at what cost? I’ve read some of the “shield fighter” builds on here, and I think I would run into a feat problem… namely that I could shield bash and trip, but not at all on a level that the tripping alchemist is at, and couldn’t shield bash very well.

2) OR should I just go with shield mastery (to slam constantly) and just use a short spear or something for an occasional trip?

3) OR should I just stick with the tripping alchemist of doom build and forget the shield?

How would you build it?

As a side note… is there a way that an 8th level character can get to gargantuan size? I just think that would be pretty amusing.