So, I'm wanting to make a fairly simple blaster character in a game I'm in, as that's what feels what'll fit the game - I'm retiring my bard as no one can remember what buffs I've given them, and the tactics needed to make Occult spells useful just aren't working.
I can't really be bothered with the book-keeping of summons (despite the fact I can see it's the best option), so I don't want Greater Primal Evolution at 4th level - but I'm stuck with what else to take there
Current feats:
2: Dangerous Sorcery
4: ????
6: Advanced Bloodline
8: Crossblooded Evolution
10: Greater Bloodline
12: Bloodline Focus
14: Signature Spell Expansion
And Ancestry Feats are:
1: Unexpected Shift
5: Energised Font
9: Fortituous Shift
13: Invisible Trickster (Sprite - Adopted Ancestry)
Element is air. Skills are Intimidation, Stealth and Nature. I'm going mostly blasty with a side order of "Whoops, missed me!"
Geomancer Dedication seems a possibilty, for Fatigue when I hit people with fire, etc. But I'm trying to think of anything else and drawing a blank - any suggestions?
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A blaster sorcerer might find Reach Spell, Widen Spell, or Split Shot useful.
Alternately, the Psychic Dedication (Cha-based) with The Oscillating Wave conscious mind might make sense to gain some extra oomph and a spell amp for either produce flame or ray of frost. You may want to consider working in Basic, Expert, and Master Psychic Spellcasting in as well for the extra spell slots and to keep the occult/psychic spell attack bonus and DC close to the primal ones.
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You may take a familiar.
Although the abilities of the familiars themselves are not remarkable. The abilities they provide to the caster can be quite interesting. You can take things like Cantrip Connection, Spell Battery adnd Familiar Focus that's very useful for a blast focused sorcerer.
Out of curiosity what traditions have CHA casters for Multiclass Archetypes
Aside from Sorcerer that has all of them?
Oracle does Divine tradition.
Bard does Occult.
Summoner can also do any tradition, though the archetype is not generally considered very powerful.
Psychic also does Occult but IIRC it doesn't quite follow the spell slot progression normally for a spellcasting archetype. It can be CHA based or INT based.
I think there are also some non-multiclass archetypes that are either CHA based or add spell slots and maybe off-tradition spells to your existing spellcasting from your main class.
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What about the Spell Trickster archetype? It includes some fun ways to modify fireball if you are so inclined.
You may take a familiar.
Although the abilities of the familiars themselves are not remarkable. The abilities they provide to the caster can be quite interesting. You can take things like Cantrip Connection, Spell Battery adnd Familiar Focus that's very useful for a blast focused sorcerer.
In terms of 'best' option, this is the way I'm leaning, as it takes me up to an effective 3 + 2 focus points, regenerating 2 (later 3) after a fight, and two more for when I really need them.
But it'll be a furball that's just a power battery and never actually sees play as itself, and I feel slightly bad about that. And I could take it with a General Feat I've got going spare now anyway.
Given how lacklusture all the options are below, it may well be where I go. (Primal Evolution would likely be the best option, especially given the later "Get two more casts a day" coming from it - it's just... I don't want to do the book-keeping or inflict "Hey, random high level Animal/Plant!" on my GM.
A blaster sorcerer might find Reach Spell, Widen Spell, or Split Shot useful.
Given what I've seen so far in our game, Reach and widen spell will be mostly not needed, occasionally useful, but given I'll be so heavily blasty, mostly I'll just be able to go "Use a different spell!" - so it doesn't really seem worth the effort.
Split Shot seems rarely worth the effort for just about anyone, unless you're very commonly fighting things with Weaknesses that you've been informed of, have the right spell for, and can't hit with an AoE or multi-target spell. I just don't see the use of it, for an Action.
Alternately, the Psychic Dedication (Cha-based) with The Oscillating Wave conscious mind might make sense to gain some extra oomph and a spell amp for either produce flame or ray of frost. You may want to consider working in Basic, Expert, and Master Psychic Spellcasting in as well for the extra spell slots and to keep the occult/psychic spell attack bonus and DC close to the primal ones.
Nah. Too much complexity to try and track 'Am I giving or receiving?' - and I don't want to throw lots of extra feats when I've got a good set of Sorcerer feats that'll do me quite well enough.
What about the Spell Trickster archetype? It includes some fun ways to modify fireball if you are so inclined.
Spell trickster offers awful options for primal spells at starting. So that's two feats in to get Fireball alterations that are not bad, but not worth the effort.
The options are there. They just aren't as good as Primal Evolution. Widen or a Familiar would be my in class choice for a blaster.
PF2 is mostly about breadth and options not so much an increase in power.
Spell Trickster has some options for spells. I like them but you have to believe that the spells offered are good ones or there is no point.
Geomancer is a good option.
Swashbuckler then One for All is great.
Plus so many options that work for any class.
I suppose I find it annoying when the difference is that stark; when you can take Primal Evolution that gives you a spell of your highest level, and leads to other powerful feats… or you can go for other, much weaker options.
Pushes primal casters towards summoning even if it doesn't fit their style - they don't have to go that way, but they're weakening themselves if they don't!
I think it feels especially stark to me as I'm playing this character having given up on the thought of playing a Wild Order druid - because of how prescriptive the feat choices were for a wildshape focused character.
I want to build a character who's good at doing a thing, but have choice in doing so. In Pathfinder 2E, it feels like I don't really have that - there's the 'right' choice.
In terms of what to actually take, I'm currently actually leaning towards Talisman Dabbler for a couple of Talismans a day - as at my current level (14) I can make use of a couple of level 7 armour Talismans.
I want to build a character who's good at doing a thing, but have choice in doing so. In Pathfinder 2E, it feels like I don't really have that - there's the 'right' choice.
To a certain level you are correct but it is always more complex than that. There are limited number of actions in an encounter. Once you get to higher levels spell slots aren't the most important limit especially if you can have a few items.
PF2 is one of the better balanced systems out there with this level of richness. It is a lot better balanced that it competitors.
If you aren't prepared to give away 10% of effectiveness and you have to build the most optimal rather than the most fun. Then you are in a trap of your own making. Get yourself out of it.
Take a Staff and spend the spell slot that you get from Primal Evolution. Then instead of casting a Summon spell, cast a Fireball.
How do people feel about that rules wise?
I do know what they means though
I’m sure some of you know I’ve been in a bit of a character building tear
Occasionally you do run into a feat so strong it feels like it should just be a basic class feature.
Like say Attack of Opportunity for every melee specialist who isn't a Fighter?
For sure. But every now and then you come up with a build that just doesn't need it.
Would you rather have the Wizard solution? By that I mean most of your class feats are just useless so they just don't matter. I'm pretty sure most people want a couple of good options at each level. Paizo have only sometimes gotten that right.
Like say Attack of Opportunity for every melee specialist who isn't a Fighter?
For sure. But every now and then you come up with a build that just doesn't need it.
Would you rather have the Wizard solution? By that I mean most of your class feats are just useless so they just don't matter. I'm pretty sure most people want a couple of good options at each level. Paizo have only sometimes gotten that right.
Oh of the two, having actually strong options is definitely preferable. It’s really a minor gripe. The real issues are with other classes that just have weak toast options.
Just relating that sometimes an option can be frustratingly good, when building towards a concept.
Probably the same way they feel about wizards blending away their bonus school slot to preserve their regular slots which I've seen shot down more often than not.Take a Staff and spend the spell slot that you get from Primal Evolution. Then instead of casting a Summon spell, cast a Fireball.
How do people feel about that rules wise?
Which is (quick search) some people don't like it, but there is no rules reason it doesn't work. I mean the only thing close to guidance on this is just an analogy from the rules for slow, that being you can choose to loose your more restricted action to slow.
I want to build a character who's good at doing a thing, but have choice in doing so. In Pathfinder 2E, it feels like I don't really have that - there's the 'right' choice.
To a certain level you are correct but it is always more complex than that. There are limited number of actions in an encounter. Once you get to higher levels spell slots aren't the most important limit especially if you can have a few items.
PF2 is one of the better balanced systems out there with this level of richness. It is a lot better balanced that it competitors.
If you aren't prepared to give away 10% of effectiveness and you have to build the most optimal rather than the most fun. Then you are in a trap of your own making. Get yourself out of it.
10% drop is doable. 10% is fine.
The problem is, that Paizo have gone, lets make these cool 'Evolution' spells, one for each type of casting, that scale with your level, and open up other powerful effects later on - but you have to have that casting. Unlike most other types, there's no feat to go "Hey, you started as Wild order, but want some Storm order feats? Sure why not!"
So those Evolution feats kinda blow the rest out of the water.
Take a Staff and spend the spell slot that you get from Primal Evolution. Then instead of casting a Summon spell, cast a Fireball.
How do people feel about that rules wise?
Fireball's a bit of an awful use of it at level 14. But Cone of Cold or something higher level seems more useful, and viable. That's an actual use for it I can see (and means I can actually go "Take it, mostly use it for that, use it for a simple summon if I really need to")
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I want to build a character who's good at doing a thing, but have choice in doing so. In Pathfinder 2E, it feels like I don't really have that - there's the 'right' choice.
To a certain level you are correct but it is always more complex than that. There are limited number of actions in an encounter. Once you get to higher levels spell slots aren't the most important limit especially if you can have a few items.
PF2 is one of the better balanced systems out there with this level of richness. It is a lot better balanced that it competitors.
If you aren't prepared to give away 10% of effectiveness and you have to build the most optimal rather than the most fun. Then you are in a trap of your own making. Get yourself out of it.
Take a Staff and spend the spell slot that you get from Primal Evolution. Then instead of casting a Summon spell, cast a Fireball.
How do people feel about that rules wise?
Bro to your point I read that whole magic user versus martial thread and at first I was scared to play a spellcaster because I personally like blasters, but I went ahead and I built a blaster trying to follow all the rules: have a move that targets every save (including AC), have true strike, all that kind of stuff you know it?
Well turns out at just level 1 and 2 I’ve felt effective and powerful every single combat and it’s been proper fun. Some people act like blasters are impossible but all my spells deal damage except 3 (dispel magic, shield and befuddle).
And as a sample size: I have done 5-6 pathfinder society bounties and 2 scenarios and only 1 time out of all of this has one of my spells done 0 damage. 2 large chameleons saved against my burning hands critically taking nothing. Every single other combat I’ve had my spell hit or the monster at worst succeeds for half damage. I’m always doing something even if it’s just intimidate and befuddle.
This might not fit your character concept, buuuut... I feel obligated to mention Bespell Weapon. If you are focusing on stealth you probably have good charisma, so if you pick up a ranged weapon proficiency somewhere or another you can seriously improve your DPR. Even a simple reload weapon like a sling or crossbow gives you options.
I want to build a character who's good at doing a thing, but have choice in doing so. In Pathfinder 2E, it feels like I don't really have that - there's the 'right' choice.
To a certain level you are correct but it is always more complex than that. There are limited number of actions in an encounter. Once you get to higher levels spell slots aren't the most important limit especially if you can have a few items.
PF2 is one of the better balanced systems out there with this level of richness. It is a lot better balanced that it competitors.
If you aren't prepared to give away 10% of effectiveness and you have to build the most optimal rather than the most fun. Then you are in a trap of your own making. Get yourself out of it.
Take a Staff and spend the spell slot that you get from Primal Evolution. Then instead of casting a Summon spell, cast a Fireball.
How do people feel about that rules wise?Bro to your point I read that whole magic user versus martial thread and at first I was scared to play a spellcaster because I personally like blasters, but I went ahead and I built a blaster trying to follow all the rules: have a move that targets every save (including AC), have true strike, all that kind of stuff you know it?
Well turns out at just level 1 and 2 I’ve felt effective and powerful every single combat and it’s been proper fun. Some people act like blasters are impossible but all my spells deal damage except 3 (dispel magic, shield and befuddle).
And as a sample size: I have done 5-6 pathfinder society bounties and 2 scenarios and only 1 time out of all of this has one of my spells done 0 damage. 2 large chameleons saved against my burning hands critically taking nothing. Every single other combat I’ve had my spell hit or the monster at worst succeeds for half damage. I’m...
Glad to hear it has been going well for you. :)