TheMonkeyFish's page

Organized Play Member. 511 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 8 Organized Play characters.

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Secret Wizard wrote:

So, are we seriously wrapping up 1E without a fully INT-based (Un)Monk archetype?

So, are we seriously wrapping up 1E without a Rageless Barbarian archetype?

So, are we seriously wrapping up 1E without a juicy late-level Gunslinger feat to encourage single-class builds?

So, are we seriously wrapping up 1E without Alchemist discoveries that grant them outsider-binding abilities?

You missed a few:

So, are we seriously wrapping up 1E without an Oracle option to Channel Negative Energy to Harm Living/Heal Undead?

So, are we seriously wrapping up 1E without a Shaman option to Channel Negative Energy to Harm Living/Heal Undead?

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Ssalarn wrote:
The fact that so many people started channeling Six Bears tribesmen by immediately piling on mocking and deriding this version of Amiri as not looking "enough like a barbarian" is to me a pretty clear signal that this art does exactly what it should be doing.

I do not mind the new image of her, but what I do mind is the new ideals that Paizo is trying to push by Politically Correcting their content with PF2e. The bears tribe shunned Amiri's attempts to become a warrior because she was a Woman. NOT because she was a runt, NOT because she looked sickly and weak, NOT because she wasn't intimidating enough. She was rejected for being a warrior BECAUSE she was a woman.

All of the challenges that she had fought, all of the trials and tribulations she faced against, everything she had to overcome during her character development, EVERYTHING is effectively deleted because it's "wrong think" and Paizo doesn't like it.

So, instead of actually working on her character development with what they've already had - they turned back around and decided to make her a "hiccup" instead of keep going with what they had.

They chose Political Correctness over Character Development.

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avr wrote:

To know how to break something, learn how to build it. And engineer as a PF skill is about civil engineering more than invention.

Aside from as fluff, can you actually do all that in PFS?

After my 4th Adventure, I will have one of them (Property Broker: People that are at your table can buy buildings with a 1 PP discount. If they do so, you get a +4 to your Dayjob check [Only once per table]).

After my 6th adventure, I'll have both of them (Criminal Activities: You get a +1 to all Dayjob checks. If you roll a Natural 1 on your Dayjob, you instead get 0 Gold for that day.)

I am still saving money for an Adamantine Sledge, but I should have enough at about level 3. Until level 5, I'll be dealing 4d6+9 damage. After level 5, I'll be dealing 6d6+12 Damage. (Power Attack and Shikigami Style). Vital strike at level 6 for 12d6+12 Damage. I'm pretty sure he can break a few walls down.

So aside from the fluff, yes I can. :)

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@Gloom - I agree with the stats to a point, unfortunately they are all pretty much the same to one another with the exception for their second bonus, and I don't believe Paizo would do something so blatant for their small races - even if they aren't core.

I still believe that the Goblin's Penalty stat makes more sense as a Wisdom bane than Strength. Kobolds seem like they would be more of a Constitution Bane than anything else, and Ratfolk I agree with the Strength Bane.

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Hm... I was not expecting this thread to still be alive after my hiatus for about a month. That being said, Kobolds have a much stronger force of personality than goblins do - and in PF1 (and DnD), not having a 20 score didn't make you a /bad/ caster. Unfortunately, it feels like PF2 is pushing for the "18 is standard" mindset for the game, meaning if you don't have 18 in your key score, you might loss out on a lot of stuff that it has to offer.

That being said, I believe Kobolds with +Dex/+Cha/-Str (or -Con) would make much more sense then the Goblin's +Dex/+Cha/-Wis. While I think a -2 Strength (or Constitution) might make more sense for the Goblin, it was previously pointed out (to my agreement) that Goblins are still considered a more primal class, and penalizing their strength or constitution. That being said, the main argument for them carrying the -2 Wisdom is the fact that the /only/ reason they are alive is how quickly they are able to reproduce and replenish numbers - no matter how many predators work to lower their numbers.

If Goblin's DIDN'T die on a daily basis, then it would quickly turn into an issue of overpopulation of accident prone explosive monsters.

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Please Evaluate and Critique Honestly

So... I've been working on this character for a while now. To be honest, I am not someone who normally makes the brawler or fighter character in our group - in favor of something more skill focused in our campaigns (while still contributing to combat the best I can). This will be my first attempt at a martial character who focuses on strength and fighting over dexterity and skillcraft. PEACH to your hearts content.

TL:DR - Blind Monk that uses a Monk Spade with Meditation Feats

Basic Description:
The basic idea (and soul for this character concept) is a Blind Monk whom specializes on the Monk Spade, dancing around the opponent and slapping the enemy with the weapon. The reason I chose to go Fighter over Monk for my first 2 levels are two fold: Master of Many Styles forfeits Flurry of Blows and Monk does NOT get proficiency with the Monk Spade (Whaaaaa?!). Anyway, I'm planning on spending my first 2 Prestige Point on an Alchemist Silver/Cold Iron Monk Spade - which pretty much means that DR is never an issue for my attack.

Level 1 is going to be "skipped" by playing a different build before switching to this one. I'll be running a similar build to see if I like the style, but lets be honest... Being Blind without Greater Blind Fight or Blinded Mastery is just biting your own foot at that point... Level 2 will be tedious, but getting Greater Blind Fight with Scent 10 will help me pinpoint my targets once my non-CN allies point me in the right direction.

Level 3 is going to be both my first major power spike for the character and my most disappointing level by far. Firstly - my Blindness has been upgraded to Blindsight 30ft. Secondly - Flurry of Blows with my Monk Spade. Unfortunately, I am unable to take Power Attack due to the reliance on my General Feats earned thus far. Also, I'm trading my Stunning Fist for Perfect Strike (Which for SOME REASON does not work with the Monk Spade.... WHAAAAAA?!). Oh, I also get the Meditation Master feat as a Monk Bonus Feat because... I can!

Nothing much to say about Level 4 other than the +1 to Strength which increases my damage by 2 (2-handed weapon) and a Meditation Feat. Debating on Body Control, Mindful Meditation, or Sensory Mastery. Each of them give me something unique, though I am leaning on Sensory Mastery for a 40 ft. Scent ability. I also get Weapon Focus for a +1 to attack at this level, which is nice.

At level 5 we finally get POWER ATTACK! Our base attack is only +4 due to the monk's 3/4ths BAB, but we get +6 Damage for our -2 Attack due to Monk Spade counting as a 2-handed weapon (so long as we don't attack with both ends). So we are making 2 attacks at -4 in order to gain a +6 to both attacks, 12 damage if both hits. Unsure if this will work, but with the other bonuses to attack we're getting, I think it should work okay.

We finally get our first mutation at level 6, Eyes Shown Shut, which effectively gives our character a radar of 60 ft., meaning no one is going to hide from him. Also the first level we don't get a feat.

Level 7 we are grabbing Combat Meditation because feat tax. Level 8, this turns into Slow-Time which gives us Haste Once/Day after we use our Full Round Action for Combat Meditation. Also getting another +1 to Strength.

Unfortunately, I'm stuck at level 8 and unable to brainstorm past... I mean, Scarred Body is good for the Monk, and I'm almost always going to be Flurry of Blows using my Monk Spade for multiple attacks with my 2-handed Monk Weapon. Any advice on how to proceed from Level 8 to Level 12?

Important Weapons and Items:
Monk Spade - Cold Iron and Alchemist Silver. (2 Prestige Points). Cold Iron applied to the P/S weapon while Alchemist Silver is applied to be B/S end. Going to be enchanting the Alchemist Silver to avoid the double cost for enchanting Cold Iron but thinking of adding the +1 Magic for damage and attack bonus later on. First purchase pretty much.

Tunic, Snakeskin - +1 Armor and +2 Dex basically mean that I'm getting +2 to my AC with the added bonus of having extra Dexterity for other things. +2 Poison Resistance, but I don't think that is as important.

Monk's Robes: - I'm... never going to be able to buy this... But if I am able to, this will be AWESOME!

Ring of Protection: - One of my AC Items which I need to buy as a Monk not to go squish.

Bracers of Armor - One of my AC Items which I need to buy as a Monk not to go squish. Also has the added benefit of allowing me to use Armor Mods without wearing Armor.

Headband of Inspired Wisdom: - I really don't need INT or CHA for this character. He is going to smash face. That's about it.

Cloak of Resistance: - If you don't know why, then you're not an adventurer.

Belt of Physical Might: - Already have an Enhancement mod to my Dex, so I only need Physical Might to buff up Strength and Constitution, in that order.

Other than that, any advice is wonderful for this too.

* Fighter - Unarmed Fighter
* Monk - Scarred Monk + Weapon Adept

Attributes, Feats, and Traits:

Str: 15 (+2 Human), (+1 Level 4), (+1 Level 8), (+1 Level 12)
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 16
Cha: 7

Trait 1: Blind Zeal
Trait 2: Monk Weapon Skill (Monk Spade)

Level 1: Blind Fight (Trait Bonus Feat)
Level 1: Improved Unarmed Fighting (Unarmed Fighter Bonus Feat)
Level 1: Blinded Blade Style (Unarmed Fighter Bonus Feat)
Level 1: Improved Blind-Fight (Human Bonus Feat)
Level 1: Blinded Competence
Level 2: Greater Blind-Fight (Fighter Bonus Feat)
Level 3: Blinded Master
Level 3: Meditation Master (Monk Bonus Feat)
Level 4: Sensory Mastery (Monk Bonus Feat)
Level 4: Weapon Focus - Monk Spade (Weapon Adept Bonus Feat)
Level 5: Power Attack
Level 7: Combat Meditation
Level 8: Slow Time
Level 8: Weapon Specialization - Monk Spade (Weapon Adept Bonus Feat)

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@ Darksol the Painbringer

TheMonkeyFish wrote:
"Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Goblins tend to flock to strong leaders, fiercely protecting those companions who have protected them from physical harm or offered a sympathetic ear when they learn of the goblins’ woes.

That does not sound like a strong force of personality... That sounds like they are easily influenced and controlled. There are more quotes from various sources, but they all pretty much say the same thing. Goblins are followers and not leaders, and it doesn't make sense for a race who is easily influenced with no real personality for themselves to have a Charisma boon.

That being said, they are also not a race whom I would say deserve a Charisma bane. I just don't believe a lapdog race should have +Cha.

(Edit) Almost forgot about this one, sorry.

Paradozen wrote:
TheMonkeyFish wrote:

The funny thing is? They didn't even retcon anything. They are still the unlikable dog-killing, horse-stabbing, garbage-eating race with the exception that they are only just now beginning to integrate into society. The only thing Paizo has "updated" on the race is how apparently most people think that these are now "enduring" characteristics.

"Aw, look, Tommie the Goblin just stabbed a horse and is now making a tripwire trap out of the gutts. Isn't that so cute?"

That, and their "natural charm" <only referenced in one sentence through the entire history of Goblins> makes them good at sorcery, when they are more commonly associated with Alchemists?

And I don't believe Racial Modifiers should <only> be used to explain PC characters of a given race.

I agree that referring to goblins as charming is an unfortunate word choice, but the idea that people equate charisma score to cute is absurd in both PF1 and 2 (and yes, I realize published adventures do this, and it remains absurd).

Babaus (blood demons in 2) have a +3 charisma modifier. Isn't it adorable how that snot-covered boogeyman just cut into grandma's liver with a spear?

Brain collectors in both editions have a +3, aren't those abominable crab aliens that steal peoples brains and store them in blisters super cute?

Devastators have a +7 charisma, isn't that unholy abomination of metal and dead corrupted angels just the cutest when it turns people into indescribable mush?

Wendigo have a +6 charisma. How delightful it is to watch them as they drive you cannabalistic supernatural madness.

Charisma bonuses don't fit any of these creatures (or goblins) if we use it as a threshold for attractiveness, likability, or cuteness. A moderately high charisma monster isn't necessarily cute, it is frightening. The grey childish monster that killed a horse and turned it into an intestine-based trap? Frightening.

The problem with all of the examples provided is as followed:

The Playtest book SAYS that people LIKE what the Goblins do.

Does it say anywhere that people LIKE Wendigo's super cannabalistic nature? No? What about how people adore how Brain Collectors steal brains?

My argument is in the context of chosen wording in the case presented above, not the actual +2 to Charisma.

2E Playtest Book wrote:
. Occasionally, fellow adventurers find these proclivities unsettling or odd, but more often than not, goblins’ friends consider these qualities endearing.

Adventurer: "Oh? You meen Nibbles the Goblin? Yeah, Neighbors don't like it when the Goblin killed their pet dog. I can't see why, I thought it was kinda cute how he danced around with the dogs head on the end of his pike while singing profanities."

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The funny thing is? They didn't even retcon anything. They are still the unlikable dog-killing, horse-stabbing, garbage-eating race with the exception that they are only just now beginning to integrate into society. The only thing Paizo has "updated" on the race is how apparently most people think that these are now "enduring" characteristics.

"Aw, look, Tommie the Goblin just stabbed a horse and is now making a tripwire trap out of the gutts. Isn't that so cute?"

That, and their "natural charm" <only referenced in one sentence through the entire history of Goblins> makes them good at sorcery, when they are more commonly associated with Alchemists?

And I don't believe Racial Modifiers should <only> be used to explain PC characters of a given race.

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@ fearcypher: We welcome you to our fold of +2Dex/+2Int Goblin spokesmen brother! Hopefully Paizo takes notice to our requests.

Actually... I've only seen a few nay-say-ers on the thread. Is there anyone who'ed like to defend Charisma bonuses? Also: Alchemist Goblins seem much more iconic to Pathfinder than Sorcerer Goblins, so I'd think that giving them +2Int would serve Goblins more than Charisma.

Just my 2 cents.

Well... @Cyrad, you have some valid arguments to point out, but there are a few points that I'd like to disagree with regarding the points that you've given.

Regarding the Dwarf bonuses, while they are technically slow and sturdy (Already displayed with their 20ft instead of 25ft movement speed and their Unburden racial ability), I would argue that doesn't make them any less nimble. They seem more like a -2 Charisma than a -2 Dexterity as they are suborn and extremely hard to befriend. Also, I think they're more Profession (Wis based) instead of Crafting (Int based) based on the description they were given.

Regarding the Elf bonuses, remember that these are not the Tolkien mthyos elves which are often portrayed in fantasy. They are emotional and capricious, yet they also value kindness and beauty, so I don't believe they would be a -2 Charisma. It's hard to argue for their -2 Constitution score because of their adaptive nature (adapting to their surroundings), but its easier to describe them as skinny and frail and snaps like a twig.

Regarding the Gnomes, I'll have to agree with you and the book. +2 Con and +2 Cha just are Gnomish to me, and it makes sense.

Regarding the Goblins, I would also agree that they seem more like +2 Dex and +2 Int than they do +2 Cha. I do hope they decide to make this change, considering we're currently lacking a +2 Int small race in the core rules.

Regarding the Halflings, I'll actually agree I've been swayed back towards the +2 Wisdom instead of +2 Charisma like 1st edition, Golarian Halflings aren't as skippy as other mythos.

Just my 2 cents.

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staticPF wrote:
TheMonkeyFish wrote:
TL:DR - I don't believe Goblins should have +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis, +2 Free; I believe that Goblins should have +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Wis, +2 Free. It makes more sense with their biography and common background.

Problem with your solution is it's inconsistent with the other non-human races.

They each have ONE Physical and ONE Mental stat bonus. Yours gives the Goblins TWO Physical.
I agree the charisma doesn't fit the rest of the racial profile, but I would suggest Intelligence instead of Charisma.
They may not be charismatic little buggers, but they had the nous to change their ways enough to mingle into larger-folk societies without being killed on site.
Intelligence would be good, and with a Wisdom penalty, it basically gives them the mental equivalent of low Dexterity.

Ah, those minor problems when you can't edit your original post.

I believe everyone has pointed that out least once, and most people seem to agree Intelligence makes more sense than Charisma. Now if only I could edit that post. lol

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@ AndIMustMask: Goblins are superstitious and believe that Words are your soul, and that Books and written paper (because they are filled with words) are soul-suckers that will steal your soul. Same as cultures that believe a Camera will still your soul, despite evidence for the contrary.

That being said, I believe a +2 Intelligence boost wouldn't reflect their book smarts. Instead, it would reflect their ingenuity and ability to learn quickly. It would make more sense than their master of seduction +2 Charisma.

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@DanceYrself - Ya know, I'm going to put myself out on a limb here for saying this, but I'm like 90% sure the only reason they added Alchemist was because of the Goblin Bombarder everyone wants to play. Considering their alchemist skills and trap making, and the fact that they are SMART enough to learn they need to ask for help to survive, Intelligence makes much more sense than Charisma. Something like:

"Naturally curious by nature, Goblins are quick to learn - especially when it comes to making things blow up."

@ Paizo - If you are listening, what do you think of the whole idea of Goblins being +Dex/+Int and switching back Halflings to +Dex/+Cha like the old ones we used to know and love?

@ Grimcleaver - Waylangs and Vine Leshy would like to have a word with you.

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@DanceYrself: I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. Goblins were a HUGE thorn in the side dealing with, and it was mainly just because of their traps. Actually... I think the only reason they have problem staying alive might not be wisdom, but because they are just easy pickings.

Personally, I believe that Halflings should have been +Dex, +Cha, -Con. If they HAVE to have a Physical/Mental split, I think Intelligence makes more sense than Charisma. Also, Goblin Alchemist > Goblin Bard. And Halfling Bard > Halfling Cleric.

@Slim Jim: Yep, basically.

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TL:DR - I don't believe Goblins should have +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis, +2 Free; I believe that Goblins should have +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Wis, +2 Free. It makes more sense with their biography and common background.

Okay... So hear me out about this: Generation 1 Goblins were all +4 Dex with -2 Cha and -2 Wis. While I understand that these bonuses and penalties needed to be changed for balance, I don't believe they should be completely neglected either. Because of this, I don't believe Charisma should be one of the Goblin's mandatory +2 Stats. Not only that, but there are several things in the Pathfinder 2e Playtest Book which would point to Charisma not being a manditory key stat for the Goblins.

You are welcome to disagree with me, but please allow me to present my arguments based on the information described in their racial biography. I am going to take a few moments to break down what they say a Goblin is and should be, and why Charisma just doesn't make sense.

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Charisma: This score measures your character’s strength of personality, personal magnetism, and ability to influence the thoughts and moods of others. Charisma is an important statistic for bards and sorcerers, and it grants benefits to clerics and paladins. Charisma also determines your character’s Resonance Points (see page 376).

This is the in-game description of Charisma for Pathfinder 2e. Its safe to say that, when comparing this to the Goblin's biography description, it doesn't make sense why a Goblin would naturally gain +2 Charisma. Key word "Naturally". I don't believe that Charisma should be a Goblin's penalty, but I do believe that it should not be a secondary bonus for them. My arguments are presented below.

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Even those goblins who break from their destructive past often subtly perpetuate some of the qualities that have been tied to the creatures for millennia.

^THIS^ is one of they key reasons I believe Goblins should not gain Charisma as a secondary stat. Unfortunately, Goblins have a stigma to them which dilute their ability integrate with others. I'm not saying that they completely lack this ability, but I don't believe they'll be able to influence people with their "Good Looks" like a Halfling might be able to. I guess their repolsive background might count as "influencing the thoughts and moods of others", but in a very negative way.

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Goblins tend to flock to strong leaders, fiercely protecting those companions who have protected them from physical harm or offered a sympathetic ear when they learn of the goblins’ woes.

Another reason I believe Goblins shouldn't have naturally high Charisma is because of the quote above. Charisma is a stat that should measures a character’s strength of personality. Flocking to strong leaders and protecting companions who gave them a shoulder to cry on does not market me to believe they have a strong personality. Loyal? - Maybe yes, Charismatic? - Not really. This may be interpenetrated through other means, and its quiet possibly for a Goblin to take charge and take the "Strong Leader" roll for other Goblins, but this seems more like an odd case than the rule.

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Some goblins remain deeply fascinated with fire, or fearlessly devour a meal that might turn others’ stomachs. Others are endless tinkerers and view their companions’ trash simply as components of gadgets yet to be made.

"But what other stats can we give these... things?" I hear you asking. Well, if not Charisma, I believe Constitution should be their secondary +2 Stat. Because of their nasty habit of getting burned or scarfing down rotten food, I believe that this would make much more sense than Charisma. (Tell me how Charismatic it is to have your pet eat the rotten food in your garbage).

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Occasionally, fellow adventurers find these proclivities unsettling or odd, but more often than not, goblins’ friends consider these qualities endearing.

Some people find these things unsettling or odd? That doesn't sound like a magnetic personality to me. If they would have high Charisma, it would more likely read "While some might find these proclivities unsettling or odd, people eventually grow warm to the goblins and consider these qualities endearing". I also believe this is the one sentence that describes how people like them - but I also believe it feels like it was thrown out there without any context to support it.

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Though goblins’ culture has splintered radically, their reputation across the Inner Sea region has changed little. As such, goblins who travel to larger cities are frequently subjected to derision, and as a result many goblins work twice as hard at proving their worth.

Another "trouble fitting into locations" issue that most high Charisma races shouldn't have trouble with. I don't believe being well known for being a menace should warrant +2 Charisma, and hatred is normally a negative Charisma stat.

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Those who befriend a goblin quickly learn that while a goblin’s friendship might include all manners of pranks, such fun comes from a place of true acceptance—something that a goblin does not give freely.

Hm... Hard to be friends with? But once they become your friends, they do so wholeheartedly? Doesn't that sound like another race with negative Charisma bonuses? (cough)Dwarf(cough). I'm not saying that Goblins should have a negative Charisma, that's better explained below:

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Goblins reach adolescence by the age of 3 and adulthood 4 or 5 years later. In theory, goblins could live 50 years or more, but without anyone to protect them from each other or themselves, few live past 20 years of age.

What is the key thing that is getting these Goblins killed? Surviving! What is survival key to? Wisdom! THIS is why I believe Wisdom makes a better dump than Charisma in terms of Character stats. I still don't believe Charisma should be a secondary buff, but I do believe that Wisdom makes a far better penalty stat than Charisma for this quote alone.

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Goblins typically stand about 3 feet tall, with skin colors that range from green to gray to blue. Goblin adventurers typically worship Cayden Cailean.

No idea why I posted this here, maybe because I already quoted everything else in the Goblins Biography, so I didn't want to leave anything out...

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
As scrappy survivors, goblins are often rogues who dart about the shadows, though their natural charismatic nature also draws them to the pursuit of magical classes such as sorcerer.

Really, the only other thing in this book that says Goblins are... "naturally charismatic", which will come out of left field completely without context if you bothered to read their racial description. I understand the character concept of "Goblin Sorcerer with FIYA!!!!!!", but that is what the floating +2 Racial Score is for. You can EASILY get +18 Charisma, as long as you don't suffer a Charisma Penalty to your face - another reason that I don't want to penalize Goblins for Charisma is because of the Fire Sorcerers everyone wants to play *including me*.


Other quotes that support my +Constitution argument:

Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Racial Feat: City Scavenger You know that the greatest treasures often look like refuse, and you scoff at those who throw away perfectly good scraps.
Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Racial Feat: Eat Anything You are comfortable subsisting on food that most folks would consider spoiled. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to saving throws against toxins and against gaining the sick condition, but only if it resulted from something you ate. You can eat and drink things when you have the sick condition.
Pathfinder 2e Playtest PDF wrote:
Racial Feat: Flame Heart As a result of either a childhood accident with flames or an ongoing fascination with fire, your skin has thickened, protecting you against burning


Well, I hope that this was an interesting read everyone. This was just my 2 cents (as someone who enjoyed Theory crafting Goblins from Pathfinder 1 - because of how rare Goblin Boons are... Seriously Paizo, you should think about making Goblins a boonless Race in 1E PFS when 2E is release.).

Anyway, what are your thoughts on the idea? Do you think +2 Con makes more sense than +2 Cha? Do you think it would be overpowered to have +2 Dex AND +2 Con on the same race? Or do you prefer Goblins being that awkwardly likable migit pet that - no one knows why - but for some odd reason people enjoy watching him eat rotten cheese filled with maggots? Post your thoughts on this, I want to hear your ideas.

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Hey guys, thanks for the help! I was able to find the FAQs they were referencing from March 2013 and compared them to the August 2015 Errata. Damn, I can't believe I've been playing this game for almost 10 years and only just got into PFS...

Thanks for helping!

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@Kalindlara - I had not thought of that. Thank you for pointing that out. Looks like I will be taking Heart of the Fey instead of Fey Magic, it just gives so much more than Fey Magic. At least for what I am going for anyway. (I also suck at Spellcasting).

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Woops, I hadn't seen your reply Kalindlara. I've sent a PM if you'ed like to exchange Paladin information.

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Hm... Did they errata the Divine Fighting Style feat or had I just misread the feat prerequisites?

Wait... And I just did a facepalm because I've been reading from Divine Anthology and not Weapon Master's Handbook... @Kalindlara - Thank you for pointing this out, I would have never noticed the difference.

In my defense, when I was making my Vital Strike Ranger, I was informed that I couldn't take Gorum's Swordmanship because I was worshiping the Spirits of Nature rather than Gorum himself. (Looks like my Ranger has a new level 7 feat though).

In regards to the Oath of the People's Council boon - I've already got plans for that. Now whether or not I can reach level 7 and complete that said encounter before the end of Season 1 or not remains to be seen. Fingers crossed through!

@Allie Silverstrand - I think I might peep at your character sheet. I always like seeing other peoples takes on supportive Paladins.

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I know that this might sound nit-picky-ish, but in order to prevent confusion until its no longer relevant, could I suggest adding a clause or additional note to the Additional Resources to reinforce this ruling? I would suggest changing the text to something along the lines of:

Traits: all traits on pages 3-7 are legal for play except Fey Thoughts. Fey Magic does not give Fey Thoughts for Humans who select it. Feral speech does not allow a PC to learn Druidic.

The reason is that there are already loopholes in place that allow players to select feats that are technically not PFS legal - due to classes or prestige classes giving them as a necessity (i.e.: the Ranger's Natural Weapon combat style). This should help prevent any confusion regarding such loopholes for this trait.

Just my two cents.

(Edit): Never mind - this "Loophole" was added as black-and-white text to the Bestiary section of Additional Resources. I must have misread.

I still believe the small Errata to Fey Magic would help prevent confusion though.

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Yes - I am creating and planning on playing a Blind character.
No - I will not change him to a Clouded Vision cursed Oracle.

Now that we have that argument out of the way, I'm currently at the understanding that the feat I take as a Level 1 Monk can count as a prerequisite for the other feats that I'm taking at level 1. I've talked with my DM about this, and he said okay. So far, the biggest trouble I've seen with this build is a lack of ability to fight against opponents more than 30ft. away, because his "blindsight" only extends that far... any tips on fixing this little problem? Also, the race is pretty much stuck as a Vanara, sorry.

I'm thinking about going back to Monk and either adding Meditation Feats (mainly for Sensory Meditation, Body Control, and Mental Meditation) - or trying to find another Style feat that works in conjunction with Blinded Blade. Any advice on that?

With that in mind, here is what I've gotten so far:

Trait(s): Blind Zeal

Character Level 1 - Monk 1

Level 1 (Bonus Feat: Trait) - Blind-Fight
Level 1 (Bonus Feat: Monk) - Blinded Blade Style (ignored prerequisite due to MoMS Archetype).
Level 1 (Level 1 Feat) - Improved Blind-Fight (BBS counts as 10 Perception)

Character Level 2 - Monk 1/Fighter 1
Level 2 (Bonus Feat: Fighter) - Blinded Competence (BBS counts as 10 Perception)

Character Level 3 - Monk 1/Fighter 2
Level 3 (Bonus Feat: Fighter) - Greater Blind-Fight (BC counts as 15 Perception)
Level 3 (Level 3 Feat) - Blinded Master (BC counts as 15 Perception)

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So... this has been something that I've been wanting for quite a while now. Basically, this is from me wanting a Bardic Performance for the Oracle Class. While this is technically possible with Song-Bound curse with Ocean's Echo archetype, this is restricted only for Merfolk. I don't mind the race (And might use them in the future for fun), it doesn't fit into the idea of an Innocent life whose blessing has been withering their body away.

With that said... I was wondering what you guys might think of this random idea. Please keep in mind that this hadn't had too much thought put into this random idea thought, and it was through random ideas that occurred right before falling asleep.

Without further adieu, here is my first every homebrew for review:

Heroes of the Theatre
Silent Muse - Oracle's Curse

Your voice has been rendered mute by the gods, or otherwise stolen by other supernatural events. While you still have the ability to use nonverbal languages to communicate, and you are still able to read and write normally, you cannot speak or use telepathy to communicate with others. You cannot use the Perform [Oratory] or Perform [Sing] skills, and you cannot use other skills which require normal communication. You can provide verbal and/or somatic components for spells that you cast by using any musical instrument in which you have ranks in the appropriate Perform skill.

At 5th level, you gain Bardic Performance, using your Curse level for the progression of this ability. You still cannot use Perform [Oratory] or Perform [Sing] for your Bardic Performances.

At 10th level, you receive a +2 competence bonus on all Perform skills, other than Perform [Sing] and Perform [Oratory]. Additionally, you receive a +2 bonus to all saving throws against sound and language dependent effects.

At 15th level, you regain the ability to communicate using telepathy, and can telepathically speak to creatures within 30 feat from you.

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@ GM Tyrant, What do you mean Table Variation? The PFS additional resource guide clearly state that all ex-archetypes are legal. o.o

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Oh, I just noticed that the "Pathfinder Player Companion: Antihero's Handbook" book got added to the Additional Resource pages for organized play... I was expecting ex-classes to get banned, because they were stepping on the "ALL RELIGIOUS CLASSES MUST HAVE DEITIES!" rule... Lets see what happens...


:Takes a sip of my tea:


"The archetypes in the book are legal for play except colluding scoundrel and ruthless investigator."




Did this take ANYONE else by surprize? Is anyone else shocked by this choice? Does that mean I can have an "Atheist Cleric" who Channels "something" with his Channel Energy that hurts everything in its path rather than just undead or living depending on energy type? I can be a complete prick Paladin who cares more about hack-n-slash than I do about my divine favor or sticking to the Paladin Code? I can be a Monk who encouraged himself on the sinful natures of man?!

I can be anything!... Except for a Paladin of the People...

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I think I posted something like this for someone who wanted to extract poison from the slain monsters. Your best bet is to use the Monster Hunters Handbook for the Trophie Feats. Ask your DM if these "raw materials" can be sold anywhere nearby, because 2 days is not a long time and "cannot normally be sold" means that the DM will have to make an exception.

@Waifu I see you've already posted a link to the feat, lol. I remember you from the Poison thread too.

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So... been reading the healer's handbook to see if there was anything interesting, and for the most part - it looks like everything interesting is going to get banned in PFS and everyone else seems so boring at first glance... but then I saw the Alchemist Archetype...

"Many (Archetype Name) are also chirurgeons" - And that is when I realized.... This archetype was literally designed to be taken with Chirurgeon. Like 100%, this new Archetype is screaming that its just an addition to the Chirurgeon archetype. Its actually kind of funny. Its so much designed to be taken with the other archetype, it even says "or if he is also a chirurgeon".

Has this ever happened before? Where one archetype was so completely designed around another that it was quoted, not once, but twice within the archetype is designed to be taken with another archetype?

One side of me says this feels lazy, while he other side is just laughing so hard it doesn't really care.

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Just searched Nethys, apparently the archetypes name is Iroran Paladin.

As a swift action, it gains a scaling bonus to one enemy. One use and it lasts for 24 hours (as smite).


As a standard action, it and allies gain a scaling bonus to one enemy. Each turn runs down the clock it lasts. (only lasts minutes).

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I am just curious about the banning forOath of the People for PFS settings. I was just curious if there was a reason for its banning? Other then making a Paladin 2/Cavalier 3 into Battle Hareld, or being an obvious upgrade to the lackluster Martyr Paladin, is there a reason for its banning?

I just want to know the fluff or crunch reason for this archetype banning. Normally I don't ask why, but this time I really would like to know...

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Does replacing their familiar with a treasure trove that does nothing count as getting some love? Anyone?

Does that mean Witches count as spontaneous casters now?

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ChaosTicket wrote:

I believe people are either being very open to what alignments actually mean but generally against narrow thoughts.

a paladin is just the example as if you stop being mostly good then you can fall into Lawful neutral and lose your powers. Or you can decide the Laws are too restrictive and/or Corrupt and be neutral good and lose your powers.

Gods allow their followers close alignments, which is very important for Clerics, and Inquisitors, but not Paladins oddly. Desna is a Chaotic Good God. So long as you are not overly lawful or evil its Ok.

Edit: Alignement is a general representation of how a person acts in the overall world, so a "Good devil" would be plotting to kill people to increase in rank. To the world at large that is lawful Evil.

Paladins get the short end of the stick. If they just had to be Good, that would be a huge improvement.

But This wasnt about a paladin originally. That is just what people latched onto. Its the Lawful Monk that I want to see. In a lose interpretation i would say a Monk would follow its own code of conduct, not necessarily what the public may have. That doesnt leave many options for any kind of rebellious Monk as that would be hypocritical. More like a Spock type character.

But what if MY laws that I follow from my Deity contradict with the laws of the land? Just because I'm Lawful doesn't mean I'm YOUR Lawful. I follow the code and rules given to me. If my God demands I free slaves, but the land belongs to Asmodeus, then what is the unlawful act? Adhering to my Deity's wishes? Or submitting to Asmodeus and forsaking my code of honor?

Things like this aren't as black and white as your portray it. Just because I'm following the laws of my Lawful Good Deity in a Lawful Evil area where my tenets are against the local law, does not mean I'm unlawful. It simply means that the rules of my deity are more demanding than the rules of any kingdom, and you're more likely to fall for ignoring your deity's commands than ignoring the kings command.

If you're wondering about the monk, I suggest reading Irori's tenets. They are very neutral and very lawful. Follow your own code of honor set by you through Irori's path.

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Athaleon wrote:
TheMonkeyFish wrote:

Everyone who I've seen say the Alignment mechanic is stupid is the type of person who says "Cut out his tongue, break his fingers, and blind him because he MIGHT be a Mage" person.

Aka: CE who doesn't like being labeled.

What alignment is someone who makes sweeping generalizations? And how many castings of Protection from Whatever will fix it?

Lawful Evil, and who says I wan't to fix it? ^-^

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Everyone who I've seen say the Alignment mechanic is stupid is the type of person who says "Cut out his tongue, break his fingers, and blind him because he MIGHT be a Mage" person.

Aka: CE who doesn't like being labeled.

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TheMonkeyFish wrote:
...and while I know it is quite likely impossible for this to function properly in the settings of Pathfinder Society...
Buri Reborn wrote:
PFS + evil = no. End of story.

I know reason is hard... but... really?

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So I have been hard at work for one of my support characters, and my friend decided to also play the game. While I enjoy characters who dance around and heal/support the team and/or deal flurries of multiple attacks, my friend enjoys making one GIANT attack and splashing his damage on the table with one giant dice orgasm.

We were looking through the book, and he has his heart dead set on a Gunslinger that uses Bombs, so we've decided on making his character a Gunslinger/Alchemist character that focuses on Explosive Missile. We settled on a Pistolero Gunslinger (5) and Grenadier Alchemist (7). Swift > Move > Standard Action with the Archetypes with Hybridization Funnel for a total of:

1d8 Weapon + 2d6 (Pistolero) + DEX + 1d6 Acid + 1d6 Fire + INT (Hybrid Alchemy) + 4d6 Fire/Ice + INT + 2 (Deadly Aim) =

1d8 + 8d6 + 14 Damage

Considering this is level 12, this seems rather low for a "Giant Kaboom Dice Orgasm" and my friend is a little sad at this "Lackluster" damage. (Not taking into account my buffs).

I'm still rather new to this combo, is there any way to increase his damage dealt using the "Big Kaboom"? If so, how?

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So I have been working on a Cleric of Nethys focused on knowledge for knowledge's sake. No Arcana is to evil or to good to be learned, a true neutral seeker of all truths. I was thinkin his origin would be based off of a world traveler, and would focus on the many knowledge traits and buffing as a Cleric. He isn't so much a bard or chronologer, just a Cleric seeking as much knowledge of Arcana and Divinity as he can.

I've been looking at the trait 'Forbidden Knowledge' from the Regional Traits, which I've been told is a Geb region trait. Reading the lore of Geb, they seem to be really lawful and rather easy to work with. It seems the only thing truly evil about them is that their undead and openly accepting of undead.

By what I've read, it sounds like it would be perfectly acceptable for a true neutral Cleric seeking true knowledge to be allowed in there for a small while and study, so long as he follows the laws and keeps his head out of stuff where it doesn't belong.

Am I missing something? Is there anything outwrite preventing me from going "I studied for a long time in Geb and found some secret knowledge"? In addition to Forbidden knowledge, I was thinking 'Tongue of Many Towns' to help solidify that he studied in many different locations.

What do you guys think? Would it be plausable for the Nethys Cleric to research in Geb? Or am I missing something important?

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Remind me never to try and make fun posts again on these forums... they just get murdered by the killjoys everywhere....

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Letric wrote:
I rarely see the need to combine so many thing, and I strongly believe most of the time that is only done to achieve a mechanical advantage and rarely is done for roleplaying reasons.

I hate to say it, but to build a Familiar fundamentally designed to be frontline fighting and not overshadowed by a rangers/druids pet, you kind to have to seek Mechanical advantage.

:P Like I said, I overcomplicate things like "Why not just build hunter?" Me: "Because then I can't have a Kilala fox!"

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Honestly I've been working on a lot of characters, and I've noticed I have a small problem with building characters... Either their an extremely exotice race (Lycanthrope/Witchwolf) or I have an extremely convoluted build.

Example: Human Fighter (Eldritch Guardian/Mutagin Warrior) 10 / Witch(Beast Bond) 1 / Bloodrager (Crossblood) (1) with a Mauler Fox with Abyssal and Infernal bloodlines for a Burning Demon fox familiar combat ready.

I'm curious, does anyone else have an over complication problem or exotic species problem? I'm curious - what is the MOST complicated thing you've ever made? It doesn't even have to be good, just focus on a single gimmick (familiars for example) that take it to the ridiculous extreme.

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So I had asked a few questions regarding Familiars recently in the Rules and Questions board. Most of the main questions I've had have been answered and I feel it's time to move onto the next step of my character development. Please keep in mind that this is not meant to be a min-max board, but I don't want to throw a bunch of random stuff together, call it beautiful but end up being poopie. So I was hoping for some help making the build Viable and what direction I should take it...

TL-DR: I want to make a Combat Focused Familiar and asking for tips and advice for its build, my build, and our combo build.

So far I've not had much... mainly I've been thinking of going Human and grabbing the Eye for Talent feat. Kirara isn't going to be combat ready until level three, so I'm not really stuck for feats until 3rd or 4th level, and by then I'll be getting 1 feat every level (Eldritch Fighter getting one every even level, while I'm getting one every odd level for progression.)

Minus the Mandatory Evolved Familiar and Spirit's Gift Feats for the Familiar, I'm stuck with 4 anything feats and 5 Combat Bonus feats.

Regarding the Evolved Familiar feat, should I pick something to improve the damage from the Bite attack? Or should I grab 2 claw attacks?

Regarding the character itself, what feats should I be focusing on? I was thinking combat teamwork feats, and maybe mounted combat? Kind of liek Kilala from Inuyasha?

Any tips for the builds or focuses that Eldrich Guardians go?

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So I was recently working on an Aid Another themed character who would focus on keeping his allies alive with the use of Aid Another. Nothing said "Support" quite like a Passive Bardic Performance giving out +2 to +4 bonuses with a Banner giving +1 to +2 bonuses... that along with Aid Another giving +2.... I mean +10 Bonus to success... Yes, I've been working on min-maxing the Aid Another feature.

Now my questions are as followed:

1) How can you tell the difference between a Stack and Replace bonus? (i.e. Does Cavalier's Order of the Dragon Bonus replace the +2 Bonus? Or does the bonus give +1?)

2) Does Cavalier's Order of the Dragon bonus synergize with the Halfling Helpful trait or are they both Replace effects?

3) Are there any rules or tips that could be given for Aid Another?