Renegadeshepherd's page

It's pretty good for roleplay and using ones imagination but it is far from abusive or negative in any way I've ever seen. In fact I would ask if the player asking for this is new-ish because a time oracle is semi-difficult to do well enough mechanically that the Ayer feels ...satisfied I guess is the word, with what they desired to do. This is not often an issue but I have seen spontaneous casters cause frustrations like this.

There are also traits like sacred conduit and improved channel feat that increase the DC and thus increase the odds of rolling your max dice. There is also a phylacterry of positive and negative energy (seperate items) that give +2D6 to their respective energies. Finally you can use quick channel feat to channel twice in a turn. But the Half elf is more or less it.

I do seem to recall that there were other FCB for anti-paladins but I'm too tired to look them up ATM.

If you want a tank and are considering diehard and endurance (not optimal), then you could just be a Cleric and take reactive healing.

If you really want to step way outside the box...you could play a Barbarian with superstition rage power line.

How is that out of the box? That's the go to standard for tanks IMO. If not for caster issues I would suggest a dragon disciple for the health and armor. Alternatively go find yourself any class that is full BAB and make full use of combat feats like combat expertise. Invulnerable rager barb is good too. A cleric with reactive healing feat is very paladin like if you just need to get around alignment issues. Scarred witch doctor if you can use the old original version. And then there is the classic "too much AC to hit me" tank.

Healng in of itself MAY not be ideal, but a full caster who summons on round one and then heals the party and summons is. And that is what life oracle does. It really gets stupid powerful to have an army to swarm foes with and then make sure they never die.

There are more than a few who make good use of this. My all time favorite is a battle oracle though. Though he isn't full BAB he is considered such for when he tries to trip and even is giving free feats to aid in that endeavor. Has full spells, heavy armor, decent health, and more. The trick is deciding what archetype to go with. An is t lorekeeper makes you a mystic theurge like, dual cursed gives party support, and war sighted makes you almost a full martial character.

Honorable mention to the magus though as the cold elemental spells he has in combo with a whip is just awesome. Warpriest is strong but a bit limited at later levels in terms of diversity. A crusader or evangelist cleric isn't a great whip user but channeling and domains offer some great opportunities to combo off of. And finally I give a nod to a ranger and bard.

Perhaps I should clarify a little....

What I'm trying to say is that a bard loses out on performances getting faster And getting stronger because that and more is tied to the bard class and doesn't carry over to the DD. In this way, the features of the bard are "crippled". Especially when he is losing some spells.

The health and the untyped attribute bonuses are the main appeal with a side of taking dragon bloodline to max power. 4 levels are the most desired because after that enough spells are being lost that it turns away a lot of folks. Taken at face value this a definite step up for sorcerers and a few other classes. But underneath the surface your dice roll for health can still be horrible, the loss of spells is a legit loss, and a number of possible classes that would want DD can't take it. For example, any bard or oracle(scaled disciple feat) that takes DD is crippled because their scaling performances, bardic knowledge, revelations, and so on are basically decimated. So you definitely take it for the known perks of attributes and feats, everything else is gravy.

All around its one of the few prestige classes(especially original) that has remained relevant so that tells you it's worthwhile.

strayshift wrote:

I find an alternate version of that reality and promote world peace, enchantment magic optional.

If earth dies you permanently die. It's part of the premise. I believe it was to avoid any variant of "F these people. I'm leaving." On the part of the caster.

Yeah but I find it funny that you have to make such a condition in order for this almost demigod character to care.

nukes dont land.

Oh here is another one for the LOLz....

Go use interplanetary transport to teleport Cthulu, Azothoth, or something BiG. Azothoth is supposedly as big as a star so he could literally absorb all the nukes on at least one side and if you are quick enough we can port him to the other sides. He is asleep and doesn't care for anything so I would count him as willing for the first port at least.

How about I just move the earth after the missiles are launched? As silly as that sounds with enough strength that can be done.

I let the world burn as I teleport or planar shift or whatever somewhere else. I hear Nirvana is nice this time of year!

If you can stand bein a paladin, sorcerer/paladin is truly great. The full BAB, high saves, good health, and more will keep you alive and help keep others alive as well. If that is not desirable then I believe there would be much to be gained from wielding a two handed weapon for shielded swing. Accordingly I would be a wizard/ranger so that your skills be numerous, saves are strong, and more.

Anyone ever paladin/inquisitor gestalted?

Seems 40k-ish.

I have and it is BRUTALLY effective against evil beings. Bane plus smite plus in combo with those high saves and stalwart makes you practically unkillable from anything that offers a save. If it suffers anywhere it's that he isn't a switch hitter but he can be if you work at it.

My advice is a human female with focus study so that all social skills get skill focus over time. Then take racial heritage to get a dhamphirs feat of natural charmer, this giving you an automatic take 20 to most seductions. Take Travel/trade domain for a scaling bonus to more social skills.

So what you need is a herald caller cleric. The 4+INT skill is enough to be a mouth and functional, your summons are your fighting tool. You will have plenty of channeling to help out and still have good con and wisdom.

Edit: as a human you can take silver tongue trait as well to improve three steps and a +2. Conservatively you can bet on at level 20 having 20(dice)+10(trade)+6(skill focus)+20(skill points)+2 (silver tongue) for auto 58 to seduction with no effort aside from the Skill points and 2 feats.and doesn't include attribute bonus.Why use a spell? And at level 1 you could be doing 20+2+3+attribute+1+class skill if applicable every time.

It's not something I'd use in a large party, but it's not that bad if you have your summoned creatures' stats written down ahead of time.

Yes but even if your well prepped and all is well, there is no challenge that can be thrown at the party at this point without it being GM vs Group. A well made evangelist/master summoner could easilly defeat a random PFS group of four, such is its quality. Add 2 more gestalts and a Dm character and your going to wreck any encounter and get bored fast. And then when it goes to hell you r the guy who gets blamed for ruining the experience and justifiably so IMO.

Artist is a profession based off of wisdom so accordingly a cleric who uses high wisdom is needed. A half orc can trade in dark vision for skilled so I would do that just to ease te pain on skills. Fates favored and sacred tattoo are a must in my opinion.

Shelyn has acceptable domains but not great ones aside from luck. So I would advise being a herald caller archetype because of increased skills and your using summons to be your main solution on combat, but still able to support well with luck domains powers, reach weapon, and more.

The roleplay is pretty simple as you can just be an artist who gets into whatever circumstances the GM makes. One fun side note is that you could believe that the creatures you summon are your muses. So you paint them and wield them in battle as well :)

Edit/add on: IMO the best reason to go with a herald caller is because your still free to do anything anyway you want to as long as it isn't archetype specific like an evangelist. Support build, guided hand build, bless equipment, and all kinds of options are still open to you.

Title says it but here are some specifics.

Ive been asked to GM a small campaign that is more akin to emerald spire style castle. Unlike emerald spire this is essentially a mundane but substantial fortress that has many levels and magical barriers to prevent getting to the bottom. The foolish PCs will enter seeking their riches to find that this place is "spook central" with each level having something worse than the one above it.

So what would unhinge you the most in all of pathfinder if you came across it? Does the twisted wreck of a woman cleric of Zon Kuthon? Or maybe seeing visions of the true forms of various demon lords? (Some of those art pictures are wicked). Or maybe little jump scares aptly described well? Or maybe seeing some truly terrible act like immolation, torture, or worse? What does the game offer a depth of lore or even art that is just going to unhinge a character and make a player uncomfortable?

This feeling was asked for and is an all mature audience. Despite this I'm willing to go dark but don't want to go into bad taste. I plan on what amounts to a 3 or 4 session dive with the really bad and trapped demon being at the end. Perhaps his even being a lesser demon lord or a captain thereof. An element I was wanting to add is a cleric of a deity with madness domain/portfolio like Sifkesh or other who as an NPC that the players don't know is friend or foe.

Any thoughts will be welcomed. Thx for looking

If not for the size difference I would say racial heritage into the kitsune shape shifting abilities would be worth a look.

I've found that a human using their race specific rerolls on themselves combined with either 1) an inquisitor with one level dip of oracle or 2) a cleric based on luck/fate domain with oracle dip works best. The inquisitor has the advantage of being able to trade in solo tactics and teamwork feats for 3 different kind of rerolls, has skills an bane for fighting, and can still take the domain. Divine interference hurts him a bit but he can still use it to mess with with foes well. The cleric on the other hand can use this to support like few can. An ecclisitheurge could be blasting away and making foes fail their saves, an evangelist can boost rolls to absurd levels (Chaldira or Desna) and get rerolls too. And on and on and on. Btw chaos domain is HUGE for reroll builds if you can touch enough.

Oracle doesn't suck for a reroll build, far from it, but doesn't have the range of options the inquisitor or cleric does. Now if you have a laser focused idea of what you want to do besides misfortune then an oracle may still be better, but oracles are much more focused than clerics and inquisitors.

Concerning hexes, it's a trap. Standard action hexes aren't going to cut it by mid game as you could be using better stuff or action economy. Even the chaos domain power is better. Yes it's costing a standard action and is a touch attack but there is no save whereas the ranged hex has a save (but may last more rounds, maybe).

Hope that didn't come off as rude or dashing on what you want to play, it's the data that I've come across time and time again.

Eldritch knight wizard

Unfortunately there isn't much to offer here because of what is fixed and a zen archer is basically auto pilot on its feats. My advice is there is no advice that can be given.

Question... How does an auto kill count for DPR? If I could show you how in a single turn I could kill a character 95% of the time with a save or die spell how does this rate?

Cap. Darling wrote:

DrDeth wrote:

Cap. Darling wrote:

I am unsure what your position is on this. You seem to be on both sides?

I believe that in normal combats, vs normal AP type foes, Healing can & does keep up with damage dealt by the monsters.

but do you belive it is a good use of actions to keep one guy in the game instead og being in the game your self?

Yes, absolutely.

I would submit that if it giving up your actions in order to help others didn't have some use then things like touch of luck, early levels of inspire courage, and such wouldn't be in use so I agree with the Dr. a bit. The key is getting the most of it for as little action cost as possible.

@cap. Darling: here is the lay out as promised.

The number of rounds that demon subdomain would grant its power is equal to 3+wisdom mod+ a possible favored class bonus of +1/2 to that power. So assuming you only have enough wisdom to keep up with your casting that is 6 rounds per day as a swift action to all melee weapons. The buff time for blessing is a standard action. By the time you have greater bless equipment you can bless two weapons (including allies weapons) for channel dice times two rounds all at the cost of one channel use.

The feat tax comes down to what your willing to invest and how much strength replacement you want. The possible choices are exotic weapon prof, TWF, ITWF, Piranha Strike, Weapon finesse, and three bless equipment feats so 8 max. You can pretty easily take a short sword instead of wakizashi if you want and not take piranha strike to reduce the tax to 6. So im not going to deny that's pretty costly but we can make this easier to bear and ill hit on that later.

Aside from the feat tax the cost of this is pretty low. at the end of the bless equipment chain you only need a number of channels equal to the number of fights you will get in, assuming you even want to use bane that much. If you need some out of combat healing for comfort sake then we can add in 2 or 3 more channels. A charisma of 14 with any trait to give a +1 channel use should be more than enough, maybe even a 12 charisma.

Strength vs dex: Well no one can deny that the number of attacks getting so many different bonuses to damage and accuracy of TWF isn't good in this rare case, BUT no one can deny that a simple two handed weapon is also effective. It will usually come down to paying 1 feat for a solid 2 attack build or paying that 6-8 feats for 4 attacks. I don't think one is superior to the other in a vacuum. What a players priorities are will be the main factor.

Finally... There are archetypes and other domains that can make TWF based off bless equipment and its channeling support a bit more appealing. Destruction domain's level 1 and level 8 power are both great for maintaining HUGE damage. the level 1 is a lesser power compared to demon but it is solid and the level 8 is abusable. Imagine 4 attacks a turn with a 30% chance of auto critting with all these damage modifiers. Secondly, what about a crusader archetype who gets to add weapon focus, weapon spec, improved crit, and more over time. In addition to the numbers stacking up to each attack even further your freeing up feat slots. And last but not least, think about grabbing tactics/war domain if you kept your second domain for its two dice rolls to initiative and its level 8 granting you a feat. AWESOME stuff.

Renegadeshepherd wrote:

One thing to keep in mind OP is that you don't need a big strength in order to be great as a battle cleric. Yeah you read that. Unless your toting around a tower shield and plate armor you don't need 17+ strength; I could even argue against 16.

For example.... There are TWF cleric builds based on bless equipment chain and demon domain that allows you at level 12 to be attacking at +6 to attack and damage with two Bane weapons 4 times. Without any strength or power attack mods that represents 8D6+24+(4*weapon) damage. Conservatively that's about 65 damage again without the "usual mods". Get a crit fishing weapon, wakizashi, and we can get bigger numbers.

Channeling can be lethal.

I am unsure if you are serious, how Many set up rounds to get both weapons to be bane? And how Many rounds a Day can you get +6 on attacks? And how Many feats did you spend, including the exotic weapon proff?

Mostly serious. I'll lay it out for ya soon just a little busy ATM.

88. A copy of "Wizards Rule Sorcerers Drool: A Scholarly Debate Volume One"

Hi all. I'm looking to finalize a build that balances the role play and roll play in a good way. The Legendary Gambler is a character named Albatross who was initially built on a representing me as a real life person into the game, which has since fallen through. Despite the failed experiment I want to keep the idea alive and use it for next PFS or group campaign because it's amusing to me.

Some background of the heart and soul of the character is that the character is a wandering herald or avatar of good fortune for non evil creatures and is a harbinger of doom and misfortune for the evil. Using his deck of cards and gambling skills he gains wealth only to give much it to good people in need in a psuedo Robin Hood mindset. Speaking of Robin Hood, Albatross wields a bow and arrows when words or cards cannot resolve a situation.

How I have chosen to pursue this is to be a human dual cursed oracle of X for one level and an infiltrator/sacred huntsman/preacher inquisitor of Desna using luck domain for the other levels. Stats are either 12,16(18),14,12,14,7 or 14,15(17),14,12,14,7.

Feats:

1) Focused study profession gambler
1) defiant luck
3)inexplicable luck
5)point blank shot
7) rapid shot
8) focused study perception
9) slayer talent-rogue talent-combat trick-many shot
9) precise shot
11)divine interference
13)bestow luck
15) focused study ???
15) strong comeback
The rest is more archery feats

How many rerolls? Misfortune and divine interference means two rerolls per enemy possibly. Touch of luck 3+wisdom for friendly rerolls for whole turn. Luck domain gives me up to 3 rerolls unconditionally and free action. Misfortune grants a reroll to all allies. Preacher archetype offers 6 rerolls of different circumstances as a free action. Finally defiant luck twice to me as free. Bottom line seems to be I'm limited by immediate actions more than anything. Would like to outright eliminate enemy crits but that's a stretch.

How well do we gamble? At level 10 we have with inexplicable luck adding +8 a +30 or higher dice roll so we are pretty strong.

WHAT I NEED: what oracle mystery? Unless we include extra revelation feat somewhere the only thing that should matter is the bonus skills, I think. Second is how is the order of feats look? Third which stat array is better? Fourth anyone got something better for combat? Fifth, traits?

Any advice is welcome and thx for looking.

One event based on history was to find, chase, and capture a pig with a prize on it.

@OP: I can go with that but it will not be safe honestly. With a strength 7 your barely wearing armor and even with that light armor your AC is wizard level at best without burning spells. And with your reduced accuracy that wil cost you more spells or feats. Even a 10 strength would make a 10% chance of success increase and you could carry more than light armor.

I asked about revelations/mystery because a battle oracle gets weapon focus and greater weapon focus for free overtime. A war sighted oracle can sacrafice revelations for feat swapping in battle giving you flexibility when a certain kind of touch attack isn't wanted. Lots of variables we don't get know.

What revelation and why dump? What do you need to dump them for so that you can achieve the touch attacks? More often than not a a 14 is MORE than enough to be accurate as that represents a 50/50 under the majority of situations.

Hi all. Got to warn everyone right now Working on a seperatist cleric as the title said and would like some opinions on how I perceive the roleplay and the mechanical advantages. I've done a seperatist cleric of Shelyn who speedster into Zon before and I liked it but I'd like to go to a darker side of things. The idea has always been one that was logical to me that in if one follows one of the two they would have some sympathies towards the other. A more extreme individual would try to blend the views.

Roleplay: the tenet of Shelyn to preserve art and that life is art is foremost in my mind as I thought of this character. So my principle focus is to not kill when possible. As I principle follow Zon this may seem impossible but I am reminded of that old saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger". The journey of becoming something greater could in a sense be art unto itself. So I want to roleplay the character as one who creates pain, suffering so as to turn a canvas/person into a masterpiece. This would take LONG time to achieve obviously but could be achieved. The secondary concerns would be traditional masochism of Zon and the instrumental skills of Shelyn (I love music).

He is t a jerk who randomly causes pain but is more calculating and predatorial like a serial criminal. He is lawful neutral so will perform good deeds from time to time if it serves either deities tenets. To fit in he does not injure himself in any way that can't be concealed to most onlookers. Going to make a backstory that involves his being former minor noble, losing title, and then warped views.

Mechanics: I think that this characters warped perception of things on many levels reflects a devils ideas. As such I'm leaning towards making him a summoning specialist first and foremost with sacred and superior summons. On top of this I wish him to be charismatic and take advantage of Zons channeling opportunities. I think death domain with pain portfolio works very well. From the lady Shelyn I like luck for its early game support and the spell list is pretty good and where it's spell isn't strong death domain grants a respectable one.

14,12,12,7,14(16),16 is what I'm thinking statwise with my human. Feats in rough order selective channel, spell focus (conj), augment summons, sacred summons, superior summons, improved channel, divine protection, quick channel. Is that order best? Replacing superior summons with divine protection might be better but I'm not going to be on the front Line but more likely the middle or a flanker.

Undecided on a weapon. Ideally I'd take a glaive but that isn't practical as far as I can see. A longspear works for reach of course but is that my best option? Sadly I think it is but I honestly want something else that can work and still have style. One could argue that I will use touch attacks a lot and not need a weapon but darn it I'd like one.

Finally my spells. Plan on using as many permanent spells as I can such as bestow curse, blindness/deafness, and such but I'd gladly take suggestions for roleplay or optimization. Any thoughts on necromancy? Has advantages of course but I don't think it fits the character.

Thx to anyone for looking and I appreciate any advice. I know that this may stir up some moral issues connected with this character concept and I welcome that but let's plz stay civil to each other.

There is a feat that gives +2 to all knowledge skills that have 1-5 skill points in it, diletante (spelling) which is the brother to breadth of knowledge; both give the biggest increase to skills of any feats. Things like conversion inquisition and their cousins allow replacing stats from X to Y that can add up to 20+ swings across the multiple skills. Human focused study turns one feat into three and if you put 10 skill points into those three skills that a +18. Bardic knowledge is the best skill grab there is baring none as it equates to triple digit increases over 20 levels. Inquisitor has scaling bonuses to social skills like sense motive and other social skills so they are very comparable in their potential.

An honorable mention to the cloistered cleric. That poor archetype does get scribe scroll, bardic knowledge, 4+INT skills, and a domain/inquisition to draw upon. With that package they are very able to self scale and self buff their skills.

Btw get noble scion for a +1 to all knowledge is really good and the +2 local is worthwhile in PFS, it's surprising how often that skill comes up. Another combo is be an archeologist so as to have scaling increases to disable device and perception but more importantly you get archeologist luck. If you burn a round or more on the performance you get a plus to whatever skill. That isn't a lot to be honest and it's usually better to use in combat but it is possible and sometimes necessary. The good news is that fates favored will increase those numbers by one so you have good diversity.

Finally, Loracle. Don't want to go INT for all this stuff then replace it with charisma.

Speaking for myself I recall a piece of an salesman philosophy. "What can you control? You can only control yourself". So even when I have significant incentives to use teamwork feats, like solo tactics, I still have to rely on someone else to some extent. Therefore I like to use features or tactics that help the group and me but I control it. My best example is a dual cursed oracle as misfortune can help me just as much as my friends.

I think you are a diabloist in nature with this character. You could easilly be LN, LE, or NE depending on the tone or choices you make. LN is resisting Hells influence, LE is following Hells ways, and NE is the revenge driven brat who does whatever it takes.

The synthesist would drop the DCs that is true but that's irrelevant. When you choose to use the eidilon your going to be smashing and or defendin not hexing because hexes take standard action in most cases. Even if it didn't a full round attack action will usually be more effective at certain levels.

The benefit to be gained is that you swap out how you fight almost at will. When the eidilon has lost its HP don't save it by sacraficing your HP but just don't melee and start playing a witch. And even if your worried about the hex DCs you can over time increase the constitution of it, twice over if your a half elf. The flexibility of eidilons make it very easy to mold it to what you want it to do.

Some folks are saying bloodrager over barb. Im not experienced in bloodrager so why is it better than a barb or urban barb for the specific role the OP seeks? I would guess that if hex DCs are a concern then having a +4 to con with urban barb at level 1 would be awesome.

Level 1 is the level that has the most to do with luck than anything. One crit roll can ko all but the hardiest of characters and one bad save can ruin the adventure. I usually bring my A game character at level 1 because it's irritating when one roll screws you over. It's one reason why a dual cursed oracle is so good for a level 1.

Haunted for curse is first choice but we can't. dark archives for lodge because it fits your abilities where any other might cause issues depending on your table. Deity shouldn't matter but if you hate undead but use them....Charon.

I'd go blackened and tongues since you can't go haunted. Your charisma is goin to be high anyway so might as well have a few blasty spells :)

I posted that because its a combo that overshadows so many other classes, prestige classes, and such that makes credible attempts to do similar things. This one character can literally do everything in the whole of the game and do it reasonably well. Admitey not everything at one time but can certainly switch roles fast. For example, a mystic theurge is a valid prestige class and is awesome to play right. Well why would I ever try to play that and suffer through multiclassing or use SLA cheese to speed my progression up when just qualify for ancient lore keeper somehow(racial heritage anyone) and now your a mystic theurge in practice but keep the class features of an oracle. So your a little better than mystic theurge so what?

Well wait now because we still have mysteries and revelations. Remember all we needed for ancient lore keeper was to be elf, half elf, or heritaged; guess what their favored class bonus is? Add 50% to your effective oracle level for one revelation of choice. Most revelations gain little from this as they don't scale to infinity but a few do. The super pet, some armor bonuses, and life oracles channel energy. That's right boys and girls you have a mystic theurge that has 50% better healing than almost any class/race in the game. I admit that dedicated healer builds that put resources into healing will close and perhaps surpass that gap but a plain old cleric or paladin is completely outclassed.

So why war sighted? Life mystery is solid but frankly most of its revelations are junk or not vital to make it work. I'm of the opinion that you only need channeling and life bond with maybe combat healer. So trading in junk revelations for the ability to swap combat feats on the fly to match the situation seems perfectly viable to me. If one wants to shoot you can be competent on the fly, if you need to use reach tactics you got combat reflexes, and so on and on. In fact combat reflexes and bodyguard are my favorite...

I like aid another action as a spellcaster just because I like conserving my resources when things are under control. So I can do so with 1) adopted and helpful traits (+4), 2) bodyguard (thx war sighted), 3) gloves of arcane striking (+1-5), 4) benelovant(+1-5), and other stuff means your putting a cavalier to shame in this department.

One more thing, divine protection. That's right boys and girls we have on top of all that a character that has saves that paladin like. I'm not going to say that this is broken but it takes a character with one good save and makes them have no weakness whatsoever. A 30 charisma at level 20 isn't unreasonable or unattainable, and that's a beautiful +10 to all saves. Better win initiative cause that's the only way to compete.

So of the basic roles in pathfinder we have skills, arcane casting, divine casting, healing, mouth skills, trapfinding (debatable), ranged attacks, and melee fighting. The proposed oracle has melee or archery combat, both casting, mouth,healing and maybe skills covered. If trapfinding trait is allowed we can cover that too. If it were not for simple action economy of one character versus an entire encounter this oracle could handle everything.

War sighted Ancient lore keeper oracle of life. Healing, fighting, mystic theurge in one package. Pure broken cheese.

This isn't hard at all. In fact there so many ways to make this work well I wouldn't label it a bad idea. I personally will need something to narrow this down. Divine? Arcane? Prepared? Spontaneous?

My go to would be a battle mystery oracle or a crusader cleric as they are better at being martial than most arcane but arcane does work.

The best you have with this deity and domain set is find the best debuff spells possible (bestow curse) and metamagic the heck out of it. Have him talk to the DM and as him if it would be ok to trade in -4 to all rolls and go -6 to one type of roll or something so you have a niche.

The DCs are 1/2 caster level + 10+charisma mod+spell level. Specific feats like arising tattoo, spell focus, spell specialization, and a few others increase numbers by their specified amounts. Metamagic feats will increase the spell slot requirement but amplifies spells as written. A side effect of those metamagic feats is increasing the spell slot number and this the DC check.

Now here's something to remember... When you as a spontaneous caster (sorcerer ) use a spell modes by a metamagic feat it becomes a full round action.

As a spontaneous caster your quantity of spells known and can use is very small but you can use em on the fly. For that reason it's even more important than usual to know what you want to do with your spells. Control battlefield, blast, buff, etc. I'd stick with one of those as ur go to and pick a few other spells as a backup.

I think that's enough to get you going. Others may be more detailed but we are here to help so if you need something particularly specific we will help out on that too.

Let's look at party first. We have 2 and probably 3 melee combatants with no face skills. The party has tons of skill points however and the list is diversified so skills are solid. Do not have a full divine but do have a warpriest. There is no significant buffing or debuffing in your party but the arcs it's can be a good controller. So ideally what we need is an archer who buffs, more on that later.

Bard to me is just plain bad for this party as his list of spells is covered by arcanist, his skills are almost redundant with this party and isn't a great archer. He is a good face and his performances are welcome but we can find these bonuses in other packages.

Oradin use varies on how much pally and how much oracle. Honestly though these will be competing against each other as a pally is a great archer but not a full caster and the oracle isn't the best of archers.

Cleric or evangelist cleric: YES!! General Susumu with glory/heroism and inspire courage is BIG bonuses to the whole party and have the longbow prof. If you don't want to mess with the 12 charisma and lingering performance feat of an evangelist then be a vanilla cleric that takes war/tactics domain. The first power helps the group with initiative issues, which is nice. The second power lets u use for a time a feat that you meet the prereqs for but haven't bought yet. That may not seem like much but for an archer this can be very nice to have as you will not always get the next feat in the chain on an odd level or you needed something more urgently. Being a full caster your sitting pretty I'd say.

Stats for cleric 10,16,12,7,14,12 for an evangelist. Trade charisma in for strength if vanilla.

Your party is made up mostly of shock and awe style combatants so cleric takes that to the max while filling a few roles on the side that you don't have. Only bad thing is you have no great face.

What you have is a support build. As support goes this is about as good as a monk gets at this level so I could not say much against it. I could only warn that like most supporters you need to have good damage dealers to win.

One thing I would say that you will need to plan for is the fire immune flyer because you don't have a good answer for them and your fellow monks who are not zen archer aren't much better. Someone got a solution to that?

Why isn't there a solution? I can think of many situations/choices that the paladin can do so as to have fun.

For example, the paladin could offer to X that they both give up their lifestyle and run away to far away lands to live happily ever after-ish. The paladin would likely fall but if he still wants or needs to be a participant in the main adventures he's a weak fighter but still able. As a GM you could at the point introduce something that forces him to regain his powers or something terrible happen (most appropriate when he's the only divine character). In such a scenario we have a classic tradegy rather than some rules or deity taking over our choices.

X could simply walk away from family if paladin lays it on really thick. Paladin could join the family and turn back on deity knowing he loses his powers. And really the relationship won't work if you as the GM roleplay X so as to make it unattainable.

Finally, though paladins deity Iomedau (spelling) is a very virtuous and honorable deity, Asmodeous is also a very honorable deity who will honor agreements with each other. So even if negotiating between them or their respective followers is tricky, I could see a middle ground being met between them and their followers. I picture this as being a presenting of a debutant style political negotiating in a lot ways but it works.

Renegadeshepherd wrote:

True but heroism has too much redundancy with bardic performances for me. Obviously this is not so for others but I feel we could do better.

The only redundancy is in saves vs charm and fear. The attack and damage bonus from Bardic Performance is competence, so you can benefit from both that way.

as I said too much for me but not others. I am also wary of having so many buffers without looking into what my party is made up of. With equipment, class features, and such its very easy for this style of buffing to become redundant. Not always, and when it works it works GREAT. Variant channeling and cleric spells are wonderful because they offer types of bonuses that are unique to practically only the cleric.

I support doing both. Dragon disciple loses on too much spellcasting opportunity and is front loaded on most good features. The EK is better for a long haul but it also isn't worth going all the way to the end in most cases either. the real debate is how many of each not which one of the two to take IMO. I favor DD4 in all cases that desire to be more caster than melee and DD 6 for all melee over caster. My logic is the +2 con is so rare that it is worth losing a level of casting. I figure the health gains equate to 2*D12 and +2 con over all the rest of the life of the character vs 2 levels of D6. yeah that's about 18 HP but that's nothing to sneeze at for someone who is interested in melee

Either N or NG. Galadriel throughout her life broke many rules that angered many folks including the Valinar, thus why she is in Lothlorien at all. She wasn't a beacon of good but fought evil so as to save the her own kin. she was much like Treebeard in a lot of ways, a being that was more akin to an elemental force to protect or stabilize the world than anything else. For that reason I say she is neutral leaning good but law and chaos is not in her.