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I am going to be GMing a WoR campaign in a few weeks and a friend of mine really wants to play an elven arcanist based on Galadriel from the LotR/Hobbit. She is asking about what AL should would be. I understand that not every thing translates from one world to another but that got me thinking. I know that she would be Good but on what spectrum? I am leaning more towards LG or NG.
Any advice?
I think so as well. She wants an improved familiar so would that give her the silvanshee cat?
I am also going with NG.
She acted sometimes like a TN and LN in the past, but NG seems to be the most appropriate choice. Throw some light lawful or even chaotic behaviours every now and then (especially when emotional or protective) -without being pushy- and you are spot on.
Galadriel was good anyway. She just didn't take s%+% from anyone but she had a strong sense of justice.
Improved Familiar would give her a silvanshee cat yes. There is many nice choices for Improved Familiars. The Azatas and the Faerie Dragon are all good options.
She is looking at taking the School Specializt talent (I know I am using the wrong term) to either do Abjuration or Conjuration (even though the Lady didn't do much of that). She was thinking possibly divination to emulate her ability to read thoughts.
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Abjuration and divination are both appropriate - IIRC, Galadriel as Lady of Lorien mostly kept an eye on things and warded her domain.
Of the two, Divination is mechanically a much better choice since even the 1st level form of Forewarned is very useful.
The thing to keep in mind if you want a strong resemblance to Galadriel, rather than a lightly Galadriel-inspired character, is that magic in Middle Earth is subtle. You should avoid anything with visible effect, with the exception of light spells and maybe some weather spells. Abjuration and divination are great schools and some enchantment and illusion. There are also a few good spells in transmutation (such as Bull's Strength) and even Necromancy (False Life, Fear). Conjuration and Evocation are generally out.
That is a good point but in terms of dealing with the AP and all of the demons there is kinda the need for evocations. Would the celestial blood talent fit as well?
The talent doesn't give you the second ability unless you spend the talent point so forwarded isn't automatic without the point but the insight bonus would be.
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That is a good point but in terms of dealing with the AP and all of the demons there is kinda the need for evocations.
Really? I'd think Evocations would be a bad choice against demons because most demons have energy resistance and SR, both of which make evocations less effective.
Would the celestial blood talent fit as well?
You mean bloodline development (celestial)? Sure, tolkien's elves are almost aasimar and the heavenly fire ability is close enough to "light" to fit in.
The talent doesn't give you the second ability unless you spend the talent point so forwarded isn't automatic without the point but the insight bonus would be.
You get one of the two school abilities available at first level. Forewarned is one of the abilities available at first level; Diviner's Fortune is the other. I believe the intent is that the player selects whichever first level ability they prefer - in this case, probably Forewarned.
EDIT: Have you considered a witch? They can be plenty benevolent and have a very appropriate spell list, including healing (a specialty of elf magic which the arcanist almost completely lacks). The healing, light, or wisdom patrons are suitable.
I second Weirdo's suggestion for a witch.
The witch spell list is a fusion between enchantments/illusions/buffs and mind effects from the wizard, and the protective and healing magic of the cleric. Although not as specialized as the wizard or the cleric, it is very versatile and flavourful and fits thematically better with Galadriel.
You won't get flashy offensive spells like fireball and other Evocation spells, but then again elvish magic was never about that.
With the witch hexes you can emulate the subtle and mind related magic Galadriel seemed to hold in great depth. You can roleplay her hexes like misfortune and evil eye (rename them first) very differently. Like when the Fellowship met Celeborn and Galadriel in Caras Galadhon and Galadriel gazed at Boromir without saying a word and he begun sweating and eventually turned his eyes away, showing that she penetrated his mind and showed him/told him something upsetting. (getting -4 in AC or saving throws :P)
You can roleplay your cackle hex as chanting ethereal elvish tunes or something like that.
Now add the endurance (the highest of all spellcasters) the witch has in extended adventuring days with the healing and curative powers of the witch, the full of divinations and utility spell list and you have a powerful and thematic sorcerers.
Gimli: "Stay close, young Hobbits! They say that a great sorceress lives in these woods, an Elf-witch, of terrible power. All who look upon her, fall under her spell… and are never seen again." aka. Slumber hex :P
ps: with improved familiar: Faerie, Dragon you can get telepathy 100ft to roleplay her mind penetrating abilities.
I can make you a build your friend can use for guidance, just let me know.
Weirdo, you get the talent that is available 3 times per day and the other when you use a point.
Lao: My friend has played a witch but that is also something to consider.
That is something to look at.
A witch would be an interesting take. Would boundaries be a good patron?
I think that what the player wants is to play something new, as in a new class, but also having the possability of having any spell that she wants (wizard/sorcerer) at least.
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If having all the spells that she wants is the main concern, Wizard is probably the best bet.
Boundaries is decent and actually fill quite well the role of being able to fight off evil. Boundaries even has the spell banishment (see hobbit movie 3 when she sends Sauron away).
Peace or Devotion could be decent patrons as well, but frankly among the good aligned patrons, Boundaries is my favorite.
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Boundaries is a great patron.
The white mage is an option for adding a bit of healing to the arcanist for thematics, if the player wants to try a class other than witch. However I've heard it's an underpowered archetype and I can see why. It doesn't get enough healing to fill the healer role and you give up a lot to be a backup healer (two exploits plus an arcane reservoir point and spell slot per use).
Weirdo, you get the talent that is available 3 times per day and the other when you use a point.
I think I'm parsing this sentence differently:
The ability must be one gained at 1st level and is limited in its use per day to 3 + the arcanist's Charisma modifier.
A) The ability (must be one gained at 1st level) and (is limited in its use per day to 3 + the arcanist's Charisma modifier).
B) The ability must be one [(gained at 1st level) and (is limited in its use per day to 3 + the arcanist's Charisma modifier)].
The reason I interpreted the sentence as (A) is because (B) is a very poorly written sentence. "Must be is limited" does not make sense. It has an extra verb. Thus it makes more sense to read "must be" as the verb for the first part of the "and" statement and "is" as the verb for the second part of the statement. To mean (B) the sentence should be written as "The ability must be one gained at 1st level and limited in its use per day to 3 + the arcanist's Charisma modifier" or "The ability must be one that is gained at 1st level and that is limited in its use per day to 3 + the arcanist's Charisma modifier." This eliminates the extra verb and introduces a pleasing parallel construction which unifies both parts under the verb "must be."
However, (A) adds a uses/day restriction on abilities that are usually passive, like Forewarned. While this isn't hard to adjudicate (you gain the benefit of Forewarned in the first 3+Cha applicable situations) it is decidedly odd. And since the ACG has a reputation for being poorly edited it makes sense that they may have intended (B) but garbled the syntax.
If it is (B) I would not take School Understanding at all. The 1st level limited-use wizard powers are generally weaker than arcanist exploits. For example, the conjuration school acid dart does d6+(1/2 level) damage. The arcanist exploit acid jet does (1/2 level)d6+Cha damage and sickens for d4 rounds (Fort negates). Using the acid dart as a level 1 wizard doesn't require you to spend an arcane reservoir point, so that's an advantage at low levels, but once you get to level 5 or so d6+1 damage isn't worth a standard action and d6+3 damage isn't worth an arcane reservoir point. The passive 1st level abilities aside from Forewarned aren't very good even at full wizard level, and if an arcanist needs to spend an action to get Forewarned it's useless.
Really, the same goes for Bloodline Development except that the celestial bloodline at gives you the ability to heal, which is a new capability.
Instead I'd actually consider going all-in with the school savant or blood arcanist archetype (note: not compatible). Having the abilities always available at full arcanist level without spending reservoir points could make them worth an exploit apiece (the cost of the archetypes) - the downside is you have to take the whole package.
I ran what the player was looking at through Hero Lab and it was only allowing the ability which was 3+, so it posted the first ability and not forwarned.
This might be interesting:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Unlettered+Arcanist&oq=Unlettered+Arcan ist&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF- 8
Unlettered Arcanist
I see her as the Witch of the Golden Wood, with max epic levels and no familiar. Boundaries is a good patron, plus she should have some water-related powers because of Nenya.
Then again, she wouldn't accept power from no one other than herself, so maybe Wizard is the best choice...
Would going straight wizard be a good option though with either diviner or abjurer specialist?
I understand the trouble of trying to mesh two different world views/mindsets and appreciate all of the help.
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Hero Lab can have errors.
Unlettered Arcanist is a good find! Better fitting spell list with enough new mechanics to hopefully keep the player interested.
Going full wizard's not a bad choice. I don't think it's thematically as appropriate as witch, but if you want the wizard/sorc spell list it makes as much sense as arcanist. Selection of school is a big deal. Divination has better abilities and enough good spells to keep you occupied, but its spells aren't great. Abjuration has great spells, but the abilities are meh. I think it's personal preference. For opposed schools I'd probably pick Conjuration and Necromancy. As mentioned above Conjuration is not Galadriel's style. Most of Evocation is too flashy but you don't want to lose access to light spells; Necromancy has some good stuff but you can do without it. Instead of a school, you could also try the spell sage archetype to - again - add access thematically-appropriate healing and druid spells, and avoid choosing opposed schools. Unfortunately you also give up arcane bond.
If you're going for Witch the Bonded Witch archetype allows you to take an arcane bonded ring - it's supposed to be a half-elf archetype but I'd ignore that.
Bond her to a ring....
Arcanists can't bond to rings/items can they?
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Nenya is actually the water ring. It's counter-intuitive because Elrond's ring has a blue stone (a colour most associate with water) and because Elrond used his ring to affect the river into Rivendell.
Arcanists can't bond to rings/items can they?
Only if you take the Blood Arcanist archetype and select the arcane bloodline - but you can't get the ring if you already have a familiar (for example from the Unlettered Arcanist archetype).
As the GM, you could let the player take the Unlettered Arcanist archetype and substitute the Bonded Witch's bonded item for the familiar.
Part of the problem is that we use Herolab because it helps to keep everything together and they look pretty :)
Hmm. maybe going Diviner wizard would be a better way and bond her with the ring so as to get a ring of elemental command [water] and then create mythic or legendary ring like her ring of power.
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Sorry, but this is incorrect. Each School has a permanent "buff" and a useable 3+(int mod) a day ability. Normally as a Wizard both of these abilities are gained when choosing the school. For the Arcanist that takes the "School Understanding" exploit it tells you what ability you getThat is a good point but in terms of dealing with the AP and all of the demons there is kinda the need for evocations.Really? I'd think Evocations would be a bad choice against demons because most demons have energy resistance and SR, both of which make evocations less effective.
Would the celestial blood talent fit as well?You mean bloodline development (celestial)? Sure, tolkien's elves are almost aasimar and the heavenly fire ability is close enough to "light" to fit in.
The talent doesn't give you the second ability unless you spend the talent point so forwarded isn't automatic without the point but the insight bonus would be.You get one of the two school abilities available at first level. Forewarned is one of the abilities available at first level; Diviner's Fortune is the other. I believe the intent is that the player selects whichever first level ability they prefer - in this case, probably Forewarned.
The ability must be one gained at 1st level and is limited in its use per day to 3 + the arcanist's Charisma modifier.
Therefor you are restricted to gaining the ability that is useable a number of days of 3+mod. In this case, an Arcanist that took Divination would gain "Diviner's Fortune".
If you wanted to play an Arcanist you could play the School Savant archetype which gives you full access to all of the School. Otherwise you'd have to play a Wizard with favored school Divination.
Also note that
If the arcanist already has an arcane school (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted the arcane school when determining the powers and abilities of her arcane school
From what I get out of the above your Arcanist levels stack to improve existing Powers that you gained if you took a 1 level dip in Wizard and selected a school. But it doesn't sound like your Arcanist levels advance your Wizard level to unlock the higher school ability at level 8. Your GM may differ but the above is a bit vague on whether "determining the powers and abilities of her arcane school" means existing powers and abilities or if it allows for her to gain new powers and abilities at 8th level.
I wonder how these would work with some of the mythic abilities that am archmage could choose from like the blood development and arcane school abilities.
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for now, the advanced classes aren't very mythic friendly, they have abilities with different names, and work differently then some abilities. Like if you want to play a shaman, you will probably need to dual path hierophant/archmage, if you want to use some of the hex related abilities.
Hopefully one day, we might get a supplement including ACG mythic options but for now...no such luck.
They should have added that info to the Advanced Class origins.
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Arcanist works fine with archmage path.
Most of the abilities simply require arcane spellcasting. You'll miss out on the class-specific abilities but there's still plenty to choose from. Even then the blood arcanist or school savant archetypes should qualify you for most of the bloodline or school powers. RAW the blood arcanist has the bloodline class feature, and I'm pretty sure there's something that says School Focus counts as Arcane School since they function identically. That's certainly the spirit of this FAQ - "It doesn't matter if the archetype's ability name is different than the standard class ability it is replacing; it is the description and game mechanics of the archetype ability that matter" - even if it technically doesn't apply to classes poaching other classes' features.
The only things you can't use are divine knowledge, mythic hex, bloodline intensity, and bloodline immunity. (A blood arcanist could take the last two but they're useless even with blood arcanist because you don't get the feats & spells).
Coupled Arcana doesn't work well unless you take blood arcanist or school savant, but a quick houserule could allow you to use it with an exploit as well.
Flexible School would be neat with School Savant Arcanist - take Abjuration as your primary school (better spells), then Flexible School with Divination to get limited use of Divination abilities, including Foresight's ability to act in the surprise round.
stuff
Summary of previous post: That interpretation makes sense if we assume that paizo mangled their syntax due to poor editing of the ACG, but would leave School Understanding generally underpowered compared to other exploits. The School Savant archetype is a better deal as long as you like the entire package.
I think Galadriel was referred to as the enchantress and witch upon several occasions and said to "bewitch" the minds of those that came into her woods by the men nearby.
Gamer, would you make her an enchantress or a witch?
What about a Theurge?
Magic in Pathfinder is so conceptually different from what Tolkien wrote for middle earth, that no class is going to properly match. That said, she was certainly one of the most powerful magical beings in Middle Earth, which means she should be a nine level caster class. Any of the arcane would probably work conceptually. Oracle would be another very interesting choice, and might fit Galadriel's concept best of all.
As for alignment, I would say that the Eldar who went to Valinor, and especially the Noldor tended towards lawful (heavy respect for authority, addicted to terrible oaths, focus on building and control) while the Sindar were much more chaotic in outlook (wandering under the stars and singing all the time.) Galadriel being one of the first few generations of the Noldor probably shared that view when she was young. All of the exiles though seemed to adopt a much less authoritarian outlook after the millenia of suffering they experienced in Middle Earth, (don't ask an elf for council, he will say both yeah and nay) and Galadriel seems to have followed this as well. At the time of the Lord of the Rings I would put her as CG.
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PF magic is very different from Middle Earth's, but you can certainly make a character in PF with a strong resemblance to Galadriel - the best possible approximation.
I think Galadriel was referred to as the enchantress and witch upon several occasions and said to "bewitch" the minds of those that came into her woods by the men nearby.
Beware of being too literal. Popular usage of some terms, especially terms for magic users, does not always correspond to the roles of those terms in PF.
"Enchantress" is often used in fiction simply to indicate a woman using magic. "Witch" overlaps in usage but usually indicates evil powers. People calling Galadriel an "Enchantress and Witch" were essentially saying she was a scary magical lady. Her ability to bewitch others' minds could be represented simply by having her PF version learn the Charm Person or Suggestion spells - or even simply being very charismatic, which superstitious neighbors misinterpreted as a sign of magical influence.
Enchantment certainly isn't a bad choice for a school for Galadriel, but it's not required. Abjuration and Divination are both perfectly good fits.
Really, you could probably make Galadriel with any full casting class in PF with the right spell & ability selection. The ecclesitheurge cleric archetype, for example. Make a philosophy cleric with access (through the Domain Mastery ability) to about four appropriate domains and select a ring as the bonded holy symbol.
She is looking at either an abjurere or a diviner now.
I do have to admit she and Smaug and Legolas are my favorite characters from those movies.
Remy, PF only.
I wonder if the Riftwarden abilities fit what she does or if going straight wizard would be best?
What did her ring do?