what is the most complimentary class for a gestalt scarred witch doctor?


Advice


I was thinking of something like a bloodrager with a fauchard and the abberant bloodline. Something with strong melee and spell casting. Thoughts? I rolled fantastic stats with 2d4+10


Barbarian. End of discussion. Ok fine, look the barb would have the most health attainable in the game without super cheese, adds martial prof, faster speed, rage, and more. Can't go wrong here.

The ONLY other class that even begin to compare for complimentary or min maxing is a summoner. Note that this should not be allowed under ANY circumstances and if the GM agrees just walk away from the table cause he has ZERO understanding of game balance. A synthesist summoner or master summoner if allowed would be potent to say the least. Synthesist gets ridiculous health and has eidilon health on top of that (super cheese) and still be pounding away. Master summoner can spam the field and then hex in near perfect safety all he wants. Both archetypes have 9th level spells hidden in a )the level format so your never hurting for spells as witch/summoner.


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Well, you could go with a primal companion hunter. While it powers up your animal companion with eidolon evos...you could keep those evos to yourself if sacrifice it to your dark lor....I mean....."if it meets a tragic fate protecting orphans".

That can get you eidolon evos for minutes per level (or as any witch knows from the flight hex 'fights per level'). That can lead to all sorts of fun with stat boosts, flight, extra senses, natural armor, etc.

Also, hunter rounds out your reflex save (which might be an issue for traps compared to a barbarian?), it has better skills, and it has spells.

Primal companion hunter also stacks with the divine hunter archetypes, since you will not need all those team work feats after you eat the heart of your animal comp....."tragically lose your animal companion in a game of fetch with knives". So getting a domain instead sounds nice, giving you nice powers and interesting spells known.


Paladin. Especially the unarmed archetype for cha to AC with light armor.


Barbarian. Bloodrager can be really neat too. Lots of Summoner cheese. I'd be interested in seeing a Kineticist as a possibility too, but it's probably not as optimal. Just another Con based caster. Kind of.


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Bards are pretty good at compliments.


Renegadeshepherd wrote:

Barbarian. End of discussion. Ok fine, look the barb would have the most health attainable in the game without super cheese, adds martial prof, faster speed, rage, and more. Can't go wrong here.

The ONLY other class that even begin to compare for complimentary or min maxing is a summoner. Note that this should not be allowed under ANY circumstances and if the GM agrees just walk away from the table cause he has ZERO understanding of game balance. A synthesist summoner or master summoner if allowed would be potent to say the least. Synthesist gets ridiculous health and has eidilon health on top of that (super cheese) and still be pounding away. Master summoner can spam the field and then hex in near perfect safety all he wants. Both archetypes have 9th level spells hidden in a )the level format so your never hurting for spells as witch/summoner.

Good lord no, the Synth would drop the DCs of your Hexes/spells.

Barbarian or Bloodrager would be the obvious. Bloodrager can take the Mad Magic feat easily to throw out spells while raging, Barbarian just chucks Hexes instead.

The Witch Doctor doesn't favor itself to gestalting into another strong caster. If that's what you want, go straight Witch, then you have your choice of four different Int casters to pick from, plus Alchemist/Investigator. Witch//Magus is strong.


kestral287 wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:

Barbarian. End of discussion. Ok fine, look the barb would have the most health attainable in the game without super cheese, adds martial prof, faster speed, rage, and more. Can't go wrong here.

The ONLY other class that even begin to compare for complimentary or min maxing is a summoner. Note that this should not be allowed under ANY circumstances and if the GM agrees just walk away from the table cause he has ZERO understanding of game balance. A synthesist summoner or master summoner if allowed would be potent to say the least. Synthesist gets ridiculous health and has eidilon health on top of that (super cheese) and still be pounding away. Master summoner can spam the field and then hex in near perfect safety all he wants. Both archetypes have 9th level spells hidden in a )the level format so your never hurting for spells as witch/summoner.

Good lord no, the Synth would drop the DCs of your Hexes/spells.

Yeah, you would get the eidolon's 'meh' consitution. The synthesist only works when the scores you try to max out are mental ones (so better synergy with regular witch)

Now, if this was the primal companion hunter getting evos, that is a different story. One of the things done to water down that build compared the normal synthesist was that you keep your own stats. And in this case, you can really work with that- start with ~18 con, and take the ability score increases (CON) to it.


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Kineticist, from Occult Adventures.


Bloodrager > Barbarian.

Normally I wouldn't say this, but for the case of the witch gestalt, it's true. Mad Magic allows Bloodragers to cast from any spell list they have access to while raging, effectively for free. Barbarians also get Mad Magic, but they are limited by having to select 2 poor powers first (Moment of Clarity + Perfect Clarity). Furthermore, they actually have to use Moment of Clarity to get the benefit of Mad Magic, which costs a Swift action to activate. In other words, Barbarian precludes you from ever being able to cast swift action and Quickened spells while in Rage, which definitely hampers you in the long run.

That said, you don't really need to stay very long in Bloodrager if you don't want to. Dipping into the Draconic Disciple Prestige Class and if possible, the Rage Prophet Prestige class, can make you quite a bit more powerful on both the martial front (Ability increases + natural armor) and the casting front (Add CON to DC...again).

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Choose the Water Patron which allows you to go Water Elemental, I think that spell eventually gets you like +8 Con.

If you go Aberrant Bloodrager, you can be an Aboleth.


Complimentary? Bards are generally the most diplomatic characters and give the nicest compliments.

Complementary? I'd have to agree with the bloodrager, probably an arcane bloodrager for the defensive options, neither witch nor bloodrager is really good with such otherwise.


Alchemist for the Mutagen and the flexibility of the Extract list.
It will give you all good saves, versatility that the witch spell list needs, and you could drop bombs for vivisectionist if you are inclined.


Ranger would give a d10 HD with all good saves and full base attack. It has 4 levels of spells including fun stuff like Lead Blades, Gravity Bow and Instant Enemy and prerequisite free style feats.

Gunslinger (Musket Master) also gives all good saves with a full BAB and a d10 HD with the ability to hex, cast or shoot giving lots of versatility.


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The synthesist would drop the DCs that is true but that's irrelevant. When you choose to use the eidilon your going to be smashing and or defendin not hexing because hexes take standard action in most cases. Even if it didn't a full round attack action will usually be more effective at certain levels.

The benefit to be gained is that you swap out how you fight almost at will. When the eidilon has lost its HP don't save it by sacraficing your HP but just don't melee and start playing a witch. And even if your worried about the hex DCs you can over time increase the constitution of it, twice over if your a half elf. The flexibility of eidilons make it very easy to mold it to what you want it to do.

Some folks are saying bloodrager over barb. Im not experienced in bloodrager so why is it better than a barb or urban barb for the specific role the OP seeks? I would guess that if hex DCs are a concern then having a +4 to con with urban barb at level 1 would be awesome.


Bloodrager over Barbarian because of ease of using Mad Magic. Actually, I said Kineticist earlier, as did somebody else, but I think that while it's also a Con based thing, it wouldn't be good with this gestalt. But it would go good with Bloodrager too.


Renegadeshepherd wrote:

The synthesist would drop the DCs that is true but that's irrelevant. When you choose to use the eidilon your going to be smashing and or defendin not hexing because hexes take standard action in most cases. Even if it didn't a full round attack action will usually be more effective at certain levels.

The benefit to be gained is that you swap out how you fight almost at will. When the eidilon has lost its HP don't save it by sacraficing your HP but just don't melee and start playing a witch. And even if your worried about the hex DCs you can over time increase the constitution of it, twice over if your a half elf. The flexibility of eidilons make it very easy to mold it to what you want it to do.

It's not anywhere near "at will". The Eidolon isn't summoned quickly; you're going to have to put it on well before the fight. And what that means is that your default role is to ignore the 9th level casting powers. You can switch to them by wasting a standard action to dismiss the Eidolon or throwing away its capabilities for the rest of the day.

I think very few people will call that a winning play compared to Bloodrager's "Swap between smash and cast at will". Not almost at will, mind, for the price of one feat you flip between the two without needing to make any mechanical change.

Renegadeshepherd wrote:
Some folks are saying bloodrager over barb. Im not experienced in bloodrager so why is it better than a barb or urban barb for the specific role the OP seeks? I would guess that if hex DCs are a concern then having a +4 to con with urban barb at level 1 would be awesome.

The Mad Magic feat. Bloodragers can spend one feat to cast any spell while raging. Barbarians have to jump through a ton of hoops to do the same thing.

Liberty's Edge

kestral287 wrote:
It's not anywhere near "at will". The Eidolon isn't summoned quickly; you're going to have to put it on well before the fight.

Staying away from the rest of this argument, Summon eidolon is a 2nd level spell and thus available at 4th level. Once you have it, this is basically not true, and you have your eidolon on whenever you like.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
It's not anywhere near "at will". The Eidolon isn't summoned quickly; you're going to have to put it on well before the fight.
Staying away from the rest of this argument, Summon eidolon is a 2nd level spell and thus available at 4th level. Once you have it, this is basically not true, and you have your eidolon on whenever you like.

That's still not "almost at will", let alone actually at will like the primary comparison. You're talking about sinking a spell known into it and a standard action every time you want to switch.


Summon Eidolon is a terrible waste of spell casting. There are much better things to do with a second level spell than make a build that depends on it to put your armour on.

Synthesists and CON casting are not a good mix.


I think I'm going to go with bloodeager, do you think arcane bloodline, or abberant bloodline are best, I'm thinking the huge reach of enlarge person+ long arm+ abberant would be great, plus the stunning effect being based off con, then I wouldn't really need to worry about the blur miss chance from arcane, except from ranged attacks.


Arcane, Aberrant and Abyssal are all good, whatever flavor works best for the character should be fine.


Thanks for the help everyone.


Bloodrager or Barbarian plus Mad Magic


Are there any ways boost perception with that combination? I'm noticing wisdom will be fairly low.


No love for the paladin it seems. Why?

You are going to have high hp, swift action self heals, high saves, smite evil and a fighting companion.

with enlightened paladin you get cha to ac whilke wearing no or light armor (and you don't want to wear lots of armor as an arcane caster anyways. You get IUS with half the monk damage progression meaning you have both hands free for casting and meta magic rods and can still melee. You amulet of natural armor will boost you bite attack, that you should have as a half-orc, too giving you an additional iterative attack.
You can use hex strike!
And your personal trial damage bonus will increase your damage spells, too should you cast any.

Shadow Lodge

Paladin//Scarred Witch Doctor is more MAD than Bloodrager//SWD. The bloodrager is perfectly happy with a starting Cha around 12, and it has a class feature that boosts the SWD's most important stat (Constitution). The paladin wants a higher Cha than the bloodrager to benefit from its class features, and it doesn't come with the Con boost.

The bloodrager also has some very nice defenses including DR, uncanny dodge, will save bonus while raging, and, depending on bloodline, can have bonus save-boosting feats, energy resistances, immunities, blur and displacement spells (which witches don't get), or a 1/4 level luck bonus to AC and saves. Improved Initiative is a common bloodline feat and it's a very nice one for casters. Some bloodrager bloodlines, including abyssal, grant claws at level 1, which has a similar benefit to the enlightened/Iroran paladin's UAS.

Paladin's still got some good stuff, but... bloodrager.

Raging Vitality is a good idea, BTW.

Ishpumalibu wrote:
Are there any ways boost perception with that combination? I'm noticing wisdom will be fairly low.

Easiest way is to put ranks in it. It's a bloodrager class skill so that helps. Eyes of the Eagle give you a +5 bonus and are fairly affordable at mid-high levels.

Renegadeshepherd wrote:
Some folks are saying bloodrager over barb. Im not experienced in bloodrager so why is it better than a barb or urban barb for the specific role the OP seeks? I would guess that if hex DCs are a concern then having a +4 to con with urban barb at level 1 would be awesome.

Normal rage gives you +4 Con. Also +4 Str and +2 Will. The main benefit of Controlled Rage is the Dex-boosting rage, not the Con option (though the ability to use skills normally could be important to some, and losing the AC penalty is a plus).


Ishpumalibu wrote:
Are there any ways boost perception with that combination? I'm noticing wisdom will be fairly low.

Again I point to synthesist. +8 perception while merged for one evolution point and if your my hypothetical half elf you can take skill focus for free. That equates to a +11 with a class skill or point.

About paladin: The reason I would not go a paladin is because having three strong stats is not as easy as a barb beat stick. The healing is nice and so are the saves but ultimately I think the synergy of a barb having exceptionally high con and boosting said con for the casting DCs is greater, more so when you get superstitious going.


I can definitely see the value in going summoner, though I'd hate for my con to be so limited by my base form, I also love the bloodline synergy, and full base attack of the bloodrager. I was just hoping to find ways to boost my perception so I can always be at least semi-buffed when combat starts. Do you think the healing patron would be better to make me more rounded, or the endurance patron for that con related stuff?


Traits can pump Perception, or Skill Focus. You already get it as a class skill off Bloodrager. If you really care to, ask your GM about Perception's Skill Unlock, which dramatically multiplies your range of vision.

That said, Perception isn't great for getting buffs set, scouting is. As long as you have a party scout who's good at his job you're set. And see if you can get everybody rolling with Stealth up as often as possible, as that cuts into enemy Perceptions.

Now cue Renegade calling out that Synthesists make great scouts too, but hey.


kestral287 wrote:


Now cue Renegade calling out that Synthesists make great scouts too, but hey.

while that is true im not going to beat a dead horse that I don't want him to take. All I will say is a half elf has arguably the best perception in the game as skill focus for free and a racial +2 is the easiest way to get boosts to that skill. Over a long term game with a low INT character a human is arguably better because of focused study and skilled. however, if you want perception to be front loaded a half elf is by the numbers the best.


Thanks, I'll also probably be getting the 3.5 feat steadfast determination for con to will saves and no failure on fortitude saves on a 1.

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