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This is my first attempt at a Swashbuckler, but I am really intrigued by the class. The build below should be suitable for both PFS play and homebrew games, and I'd appreciate a general critique from those of you playing such a character (including missed legality issues with PFS) as well as any input on some of the specific questions below - thanks in advance!
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Illyrio Silversliver
Halfling 17th level Inspired Blade / 2nd level Brawler / 1st level Urban Barbarian
FCB for Swashbucklers (+1/4 uses of Charmed Life per day)
Attributes:
STR - 7 (-2)
DEX - 18 (+4) [+1 @ 4th, 8th, 12th & 16th]
CON - 14 (+2)
INT - 14 (+2)
WIS - 7 (-2)
CHA - 16 (+3)
Racial Traits:
Fleet of Foot (30' movement; replaces Slow Speed & Sure-Footed)
Small sized (+1 to attack rolls, +1 to AC, +4 to Stealth checks & -1 to CMB and CMD)
Halfling Luck (+1 to saving throws)
Keen Senses (+2 Perception checks)
Skulker (+1 attack against foes who lose their Dexterity bonus to AC; replaces Fearless & Weapon Familiarity)
Traits:
Fencer (+1 attack when making AoO's)
Irrepressible (use CHA modifier instead of WIS modifier on saves vs. Charm or Compulsion effects)
Feats:
1st Sw1 - Weapon Focus: Rapier, Weapon Finesse (Rapier only), Fencing Grace
2nd Sw2
3rd Sw3 - Combat Reflexes
4th Sw4 - Weapon Specialization: Rapier
5th Sw5 - Improved Initiative, Improved Critical: Rapier
6th Br1 - Improved Unarmed Strike, [Martial Flexibility 4/day]
7th Bn1 - Extra Rage, [Focused Rage, Crowd Control]
8th Sw6
9th Sw7 - Greater Weapon Focus: Rapier
10th Sw8 - Critical Focus
11th Sw9 - Sickening Critical
12th Sw10
13th Sw11 - Greater Weapon Specialization: Rapier, [Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge]
14th Sw12 - Lunge
15th Br2 - Staggering Critical, Critical Mastery
16th Sw13
17th Sw14 - Stunning Critical
18th Sw15
19th Sw16 - Extra Panache, Extra Rage
20th Sw17
Skills:
Acrobatics* (1-20)
Diplomacy* (odd levels)
Escape Artist* (1-20)
Intimidate* (1-20)
Knowledge: Local* (even levels)
Knowledge: Nobility* (1)
Perception* (1-20)
Stealth (2-20)
* class skill
Questions:
Should I swap out Skulker (+1 attack against foes who lose their Dexterity bonus to AC) with Underfoot Dodger (crowds are not difficult terrain, +5 Acrobatics checks to move through the spaces of larger foes)? I'm not very familiar with using Acrobatics in combat, and I don't know how often either ability would prove useful.
I absolutely love the Irrepressible trait for both flavor and mechanics, but taking into account that the Fencer trait would apply to Opportune Parry and Riposte, is there a better option out there that I'm overlooking? Would it be worth a Trait to make Stealth a class skill, considering that I'm basically maxing that out?
I dipped Brawler because I feel like being able to take any combat feat I qualify for 4/day is just too useful not to take advantage of. Whether its Deflect Arrows, Risky Striker, Blind-Fight Weapon Versatility, Combat Stamina - it really does open up a whole bag of tricks, and the dip doesn't disrupt my Fighter level progression for the purpose of Fighter-only feats.
I dipped Urban Rager because I like the versatility of Focused Rage, thought Crowd Control would serve the character well and couldn't turn down the mechanical advantage of increasing Dex AND having a Furious weapon become an available option. Initially I'll only have 12 rounds of Rage, but that should be good for at least two combats a day if not three, and its not often you see more than that, especially in PFS.
I'm strongly considering dipping yet another class - Cavalier - because it suits the character concept so well and might provide a better mechanical option than yet another level of Swashbuckler. At the moment I'm thinking Order of the Dragon for the benefits it would provide the group, or Order of the Flame that I might maximize my limited Challenge use with Glorious Challenge. The twofold question is, is it worth it to bump things like Rapier Training, Nimble, Charmed Life, etc. down another level and if so, when would be the ideal time to take it? Up until 15th level everything is carefully balanced to be able to take each feat at the very first moment it would be available (Brawler and Swashbuckler levels counting as Fighter levels), and after 15th level, is it really too late to be worried about the benefits Cavalier might get me? My thought was to take Seize the Moment as my teamwork feat (Tactician) and really have fun with my criticals, but again, that's just 1 use per day.
Any better feat options out there than Lunge at 14th level? I thought about Risky Striker, but figured I could take via Martial Flexibility as needed. I considered trying to work up the Spring Attack tree or the Dazzling Display tree, but nothing seemed to fit with the rest of what I was trying to do. I take it that since Power Attack and Piranha Strike are both out, there are no other solid damage boosting options out there? Alternatively, I could take Combat Expertise, opening up a variety of additional feats for Martial Flexibility... or would Crane Style be worth pursuing in this build?
Regarding skills, is Intimidate worth pursuing considering that Menacing Swordplay eats up a swift action and I take a pretty hefty penalty for being small (-4 I believe)? It seems too good to pass up without a second look. Also, is Acrobatics a worthwhile investment for the character? He should be without an armor penalty for most of his career and there are some bonuses out there to be had...
When it comes to gear I'm looking at the usual - mithril chain shirt, cloak of resistance, belt of dexterity, headband of charisma, eventually winged boots, etc. I'm planning on taking a Furious weapon as soon as I am able, but that leaves me wondering whether or not the Answering quality is worth pursuing as well. It seems you get diminishing returns as the weapon improves (doesn't stack with additional enhancement bonuses or even Furious) and if you have anything beyond a +1 Answering weapon you're wasting your coin. Sound right? I assume Swordmaster's Flair comes as a set of four with the initial 2,500 gp cost and are not calculated separately? If there are any other ideally suited magic items that I've overlooked, please let me know.
I know I've dumped a ton of stuff in here, and if you've gotten this far you already have my thanks. Any advice or (helpful) criticism would be most welcome.
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Regarding skills, is Intimidate worth pursuing considering that Menacing Swordplay eats up a swift action and I take a pretty hefty penalty for being small (-4 I believe)? It seems too good to pass up without a second look. Also, is Acrobatics a worthwhile investment for the character? He should be without an armor penalty for most of his career and there are some bonuses out there to be had...
I don't have much advice because I haven't played a swarshbuckler. But remember that Opportune Parry & Riposte uses up your swift action for the following round. So you may not have as many as those as you hope.
I have a level 7 PFS character that dipped one level of Bloodrager. I took Extra Rage and the most rounds of rage I've used in one scenario is ~9 (out of 12).
Regarding skills, is Intimidate worth pursuing considering that Menacing Swordplay eats up a swift action and I take a pretty hefty penalty for being small (-4 I believe)? It seems too good to pass up without a second look. Also, is Acrobatics a worthwhile investment for the character? He should be without an armor penalty for most of his career and there are some bonuses out there to be had...I don't have much advice because I haven't played a swarshbuckler. But remember that Opportune Parry & Riposte uses up your swift action for the following round. So you may not have as many as those as you hope.
Yes, that's why I'm wondering about the usefulness of Menacing Swordplay... figure most of my swift/immediate actions will be used for Charmed Life or Parry & Riposte.
Hard to get out of the mindset of our homebrew rule which grants PC's a swift and an immediate action each round, and disconnect the two from one another.
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If you're intending this to be a PFS character, take Lunge sooner. That bonus to range would help more than the ability to Sicken upon crit'ing.
also, why Sickening Critical?
Have you considered Pommel Strike Deed feat? being able to knock an enemy prone- without actually tripping them- could prove beneficial.
if you're concenred about swift actions, there's Corset of Delicate Moves- that gives you another Swift action in place of a move action, but once a day.
I'm playing a PFS Swashbuckler/Ranger, she's not very progressed yet, but i intend for her to be a support combatant using Dirty Fighting
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I probably wouldn't dump Wisdom. Irrepressible is nice, but there are a lot of Will saves which aren't a charm or compulsion. (all illusions & fear effects - and lots of smaller categories) Also to warn you - Irrepressible doesn't stack with Charmed Life as they are both CHA bonuses.
You might consider dropping the Fencer trait for Muscle of the Society to make carrying capacity less of an issue. (You could even drop STR more to help get your WIS up.)
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Yes, that's why I'm wondering about the usefulness of Menacing Swordplay... figure most of my swift/immediate actions will be used for Charmed Life or Parry & Riposte.
It's been my experience playing a swashbuckler that menacing swordplay is useless. You will always be using your swift or immediate action for better things.
Inspired Blade is great for the free feat and the larger Panache Pool, but losing the ability to gain Panache on a killing blow is a huge issue. I think people tend to really underestimate how much of a down-side that is until they're out of panache and praying for lucky rolls, so consider it carefully.
Whirling Dervish is an alternate archetype choice that has some very interesting Deeds and automatically grants dex-to-damage at level 4; Blade of Mercy makes the non-lethal panache condition easy to meet.
If Cavalier is perfect for your character concept you could always look at going full Daring Champion Cavalier. You don't get Opportune Parry and Riposte, but you can then use your immediate action for things like Dodging Panache + Weapon Trick: Stylish Riposte (and even potentially throw Crane Style on top of those to block and counter like a machine).
I would never take Lunge, but not sure what you'd put in it's place, the Swordmaster's Flair blue scarf is just WAY too useful not to have.
I also wouldn't worry about damage boosters. DEX to damage, precise strike, and getting AoO usually do well enough for you.
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I would never take Lunge, but not sure what you'd put in it's place, the Swordmaster's Flair blue scarf is just WAY too useful not to have.
Wouldn't they stack? The main reason to use Lunge is to get up to 15ft so that you can attack and still get the AOO when they move to melee range with you since you still have a 10ft range on their turn.
Wouldn't they stack? The main reason to use Lunge is to get up to 15ft so that you can attack and still get the AOO when they move to melee range with you since you still have a 10ft range on their turn.
That's a good point, I guess I just assumed they didn't stack. Seems like they might, if so, then yeah do that.
And as far as Inspired Blade and not getting the knock out blow, I thought the same thing at first, and at lower levels it is kind of rough, but since you're using a rapier and get improved crit automatically, on top of a bunch of AoO, you usually end up full at the end of the fight anyway.
I second all of BadBird's suggestions:
Strongly consider the full Crane Style line of feats. Don't forget that you can still use a Buckler when using this.
I also think that Stylish Riposte is very strong for your build.
I appreciate all of the responses, some really good stuff here. A couple of quick questions - do you get all of the Swordmasters Flair items for the listed cost or is that a per item cost? And do you get all of the tricks associated with a particular weapon option or do you choose one specific trick each time you take the feat?
I'll definitely post more when I can get settled and can absorb everything.
If you're intending this to be a PFS character, take Lunge sooner. That bonus to range would help more than the ability to Sicken upon crit'ing.
also, why Sickening Critical?
My thought was that Sickening was a condition that I could inflict against which there was no save, and that it in turn would reduce the save chance against the Staggering and Stunning critical feats when they come online. Thinking about that though, so often if you land a crit your foe is already dead or nearly so, and feats would likely be better spent increasing my number of attacks via some of the options suggested above. I'm looking at that.
Alright, I'm looking into the Crane Wing Style feats and I can see the value there, but I'm also getting pretty confused. Nevermind that multiple sources have completely different wording on the feats, just going off the PRD this is how they read:
Crane Style (Combat, Style)
Prerequisites: Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +2 or monk level 1st.
Benefit: You take only a –2 penalty on attack rolls for fighting defensively. While using this style and fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you gain an additional +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class.
Crane Wing (Combat)
Prerequisites: Crane Style, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +5 or monk level 5th.
Benefit: When fighting defensively with at least one hand free, you gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks. If you using the total defense action instead, you can deflect one melee attack that would normally hit you. An attack so deflected deals no damage and has no other effect (instead treat it as a miss). You do not expend an action when using this feat, but you must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.
Crane Riposte (Combat)
Prerequisites: Crane Style, Crane Wing, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8 or monk level 7th.
Benefit: You take only a -1 penalty on attack rolls for fighting defensively. Whenever you deflect an opponent's attack using Crane Wing or lose the dodge bonus from Crane Wing because an attack missed you by 4 or less, you can make an attack of opportunity against the attacker after the attack misses.
So...
1) I would take Dodge and get a +1 bonus to AC.
2) Fighting Defensively would make that -4 to attack and +3 to AC (including the bonus from Dodge).
3) 3 ranks of Acrobatics ups that to -4 attack and +4 to AC.
4) Crane Style would make that -2 to attack and +5 to AC.
5) Crane Wing would make that -2 attack and +9 to AC (against melee attacks).
So far I'm good. But then I see the wording in Crane Riposte 'whenever you deflect an opponent's attack using Crane Wing or lose the dodge bonus from Crane Wing because an attack missed you by 4 or less...'. For argument's sake, lets assume I never intend to use the Total Defense option. Where does that 'attack missed by 4 or less' thing come in? I don't see anything referencing it in any of the other style feats.
At the moment I don't see much value in taking Crane Riposte, other than the further reduction in attack penalty, but a nice bit of synergy here is that the Halfling-only feat 'Cautious Fighter' allows you to increase the bonus from fighting defensively by another +2. Coupled with the weapon trick Stylish Riposte I can really see that being valuable.
I would definitely appreciate any clarifications to my questions above regarding Weapon Tricks, Swordmaster's Flair and the Crane Style feat line (and thanks again for everything so far), but in the meantime this is how I'm reconsidering the build, using the options discussed above:
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Feats:
1st Sw1 - Weapon Focus: Rapier, Weapon Finesse (Rapier only), Fencing Grace
2nd Sw2
3rd Sw3 - Combat Reflexes
4th Sw4 - Weapon Trick: Stylish Riposte
5th Sw5 - Dodge, Improved Critical: Rapier
6th Br1 - Improved Unarmed Strike, [Martial Flexibility 4/day]
7th Bn1 - Extra Rage, [Focused Rage, Crowd Control]
8th Sw6
9th Sw7 - Greater Weapon Focus: Rapier
10th Sw8 - Crane Style
11th Sw9 - Crane Wing
12th Sw10
13th Sw11 - Cautious Fighter, [Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge]
14th Sw12 - Lunge
15th Br2 - Weapon Specialization: Rapier, Greater Weapon Specialization: Rapier
16th Sw13
17th Sw14 - Crane Wing Riposte
18th Sw15
19th Sw16 - Extra Panache, Extra Rage
20th Sw17
I'm sacrificing Improved Initiative and the Critical feats and pushing Specialization back in favor of a much better AC and more opportunities to gain additional attacks. A nice bonus will be the ability to 'grandfather in' the next needed feat that I qualify for using Martial Flexibility (like Crane Style at 6th level). Overall, I think its a good trade off.
Here's a snap-shot of him at 7th level, with gear and whatnot, assuming he's using Focused Rage and burns the move action to activate Martial Flexibility:
(using Martial Flexibility for Crane Style and Focused Rage)
HP 61, Initiative +7, Move 30’, Panache: 6, Rage: 12 rounds
Fort +10, Reflex +16, Will +2/+7 vs. Charm & Compulsion effects (Charmed Life 4/day)
AC 30 (w/Stylish Riposte)
10 +1 [Small] +6 [Dex] +6 [Chain Shirt] +1 [Nimble] +1 [Dodge] +3 [Defensive] +1 [Acrobatics] +1 [Ring]
Attack: +18/+13 (crit. 15+)
+7/+2 [BAB] +5 [DEX] +1 [Focus] +1 [Small] +1 [Rapier] +1 [Training] -2 [Defensive] +2 [Rage] +2 [Furious]
Damage: 1d4+17 (crit. 2d4+29)
1d4+1 [Rapier] +5 [DEX] +5 [Precise] +2 [Training] +2 [Rage] +2 [Furious]
Gear:
Mithril Chain Shirt +2 (5,000), Furious Mithril Silver Rapier +1 (8,500), Cloak of Resistance +2 (4,000), Belt of Dexterity +2 (4,000), Ring of Protection +1 (2,000)
One of the things I begin to question is the effectiveness of Opportune Parry and Riposte given how high my AC begins to climb, which is making me eye the suggested Whirling Dervish archetype a little more strongly - or at the very least reconsider the best uses of my swift actions each round.
Thinking about that though, so often if you land a crit your foe is already dead or nearly so,That's actually less true for Swashbucklers than most classes. This is because a lot of their damage comes from Precise Strike, and it isn't multiplied on a crit.
Yeah, I'm staying conscious of that, but I'm still adding DEX, enhancement bonuses, training bonuses and specialization bonuses so its still pretty high output, both critting and not. I'm not saying the damage is at auto-kill levels or anything, but like as not the foe won't be alive long enough for me to enjoy the full benefits of so many feats invested in critical hits. I think increasing AC and gaining additional AoO's is probably a more efficient use of those slots.
Mercurial: I don't understand what you do not understand about the "miss by 4 or more" bit. It works as advertised.
I'm not a fan of the Barbarian levels or the Brawler levels. IMO you would get more out of one or two levels of Master of Many Styles Monk. The small benefit that +4 Dex would bring for the limited amount of rounds you can do it for seems a lot less than what 2 style feats, +3 to all saves, Evasion, free Unarmed Strike and the option to go armorless. With your Dex as high as it is going to be and limits on Max Dex for armor, the availability of Wands of Mage Armor (or Bracers of Defense if you are so inclined) and armorless being very Swashbucklery it does make it a desirable option.
Also I would suggest dropping Weapon Specialization. I would take Mobility in its place and go for 4 levels into Duelist. Adding your Int to your AC and to your damage will make up the difference that Weapon Specialization leaves and gets you Combat Reflexes for free. If you already have it then you can retrain your previous feat for something else. IMO 5 levels of Swashbuckler makes for a good jumping off point anyway.
Mercurial: I don't understand what you do not understand about the "miss by 4 or more" bit. It works as advertised.
I'm not a fan of the Barbarian levels or the Brawler levels. IMO you would get more out of one or two levels of Master of Many Styles Monk. The small benefit that +4 Dex would bring for the limited amount of rounds you can do it for seems a lot less than what 2 style feats, +3 to all saves, Evasion, free Unarmed Strike and the option to go armorless. With your Dex as high as it is going to be and limits on Max Dex for armor, the availability of Wands of Mage Armor (or Bracers of Defense if you are so inclined) and armorless being very Swashbucklery it does make it a desirable option.
Also I would suggest dropping Weapon Specialization. I would take Mobility in its place and go for 4 levels into Duelist. Adding your Int to your AC and to your damage will make up the difference that Weapon Specialization leaves and gets you Combat Reflexes for free. If you already have it then you can retrain your previous feat for something else. IMO 5 levels of Swashbuckler makes for a good jumping off point anyway.
My confusion is that one feat references a mechanic in the other feat that doesn't exist anywhere in its wording. I honestly have no idea where its coming from. No where in Crane Wing does it suggest that anything can cause you to lose your dodge bonus, but Crane Riposte acts as if it does. What is the mechanic, exactly?
I appreciate the other suggestions - since the character is intended as much for PFS as anything, MoMS is right out. I will look at Duelist as an option, but remember I'm losing a lot for those levels, including precision damage, weapon training advances and so on. I'll already have Combat Reflexes from very early on as it is. Having said that, I'm not specifically married to Weapon Specialization, but the +4 damage all at once is nice.
Honestly, getting to use any existing combat feat you qualify 4/day is just ridiculous for a 1 level dip - I've been experimenting with it and the advantage is significant from 6th level all throughout the life of the character. These are just some of the options that become available, and the added versatility is more than worth it imo.
Blind-Fighting, Crane Style/Crane Wing/Crane Riposte, Cautious Fighter, Combat Stamina, Dazzling Display, Deflect Arrows, Footslasher, Lunge/Monkey Lunge, Risky Striker, Seize Advantage, Strike Back, Weapon Specialization/Greater Weapon Specialization, Wingclipper
Did you see the updated build or are your comments based on the initial one?
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My confusion is that one feat references a mechanic in the other feat that doesn't exist anywhere in its wording. I honestly have no idea where its coming from. No where in Crane Wing does it suggest that anything can cause you to lose your dodge bonus, but Crane Riposte acts as if it does. What is the mechanic, exactly?
It's right in the Crane Wing description -
Benefit: When fighting defensively with at least one hand free, you gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks. If a melee attack misses you by 4 or less, you lose this dodge bonus until the beginning of your next turn.
If you using the total defense action instead, you can deflect one melee attack that would normally hit you. An attack so deflected deals no damage and has no other effect (instead treat it as a miss). You do not expend an action when using this feat, but you must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.
Spelling it out a little bit.
You are using Crane Wing. Someone attacks you and misses you by 1. From that point until your next turn, you lose the +4 Dodge Bonus to AC that Crane Wing normally gives.
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I'm playing a swashbuckler in a hell's rebels game and I'm having a BLAST!!
I would suggest more of a stat investment in str due to equipment weight and power attack. at level four you are gaining the same benefit of power attack as focused rage. I would also suggest going vanilla swashbuckler or the mouser swashbuckler for the halfling and getting fencing grace at a later level (level 5ish). damage escalates very quickly and you can easily shine as a short man wielding your toothpick rapier.
Int can easily be a dump stat if you don't go inspired blade. Use your favored class bonus to get an extra skill per level and let the wizard, alchemist, or bards do the knowledge checks.
Iron Will is a definite because will saves will always be a thing.
What I did was
Str 13(15-2)
Dex 17(15+2) +1 Dex at 4th
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 12
Cha 15(13+2) +1 Char at 8th
Feats
S1 Swashbuckler's Finesse
1 Combat Reflexes
3 Iron Will
S4 Power Attack
5 Fencing Grace
7 Weapon Trick: Stylish Riposte
S8 Extra Panache
Don't forget your plume of panache and swordmaster's flair(blue scarf)
My confusion is that one feat references a mechanic in the other feat that doesn't exist anywhere in its wording. I honestly have no idea where its coming from. No where in Crane Wing does it suggest that anything can cause you to lose your dodge bonus, but Crane Riposte acts as if it does. What is the mechanic, exactly?
It's right in the Crane Wing description -
Benefit: When fighting defensively with at least one hand free, you gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks. If a melee attack misses you by 4 or less, you lose this dodge bonus until the beginning of your next turn.
If you using the total defense action instead, you can deflect one melee attack that would normally hit you. An attack so deflected deals no damage and has no other effect (instead treat it as a miss). You do not expend an action when using this feat, but you must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.
Alright, someone needs to help me out a bit here. I've moved on from the fact that the Archives of Nethys and the OGC seem to have different wording in their versions of the feat, but I'm looking at the PRD right HERE, and I don't see that wording.
Spelling it out a little bit.
You are using Crane Wing. Someone attacks you and misses you by 1. From that point until your next turn, you lose the +4 Dodge Bonus to AC that Crane Wing normally gives.
Thanks for clarifying that - if correct, they sure like to needlessly complicate things, don't they?
I'm playing a swashbuckler in a hell's rebels game and I'm having a BLAST!!
I would suggest more of a stat investment in str due to equipment weight and power attack. at level four you are gaining the same benefit of power attack as focused rage. I would also suggest going vanilla swashbuckler or the mouser swashbuckler for the halfling and getting fencing grace at a later level (level 5ish). damage escalates very quickly and you can easily shine as a short man wielding your toothpick rapier.
Int can easily be a dump stat if you don't go inspired blade. Use your favored class bonus to get an extra skill per level and let the wizard, alchemist, or bards do the knowledge checks.
Don't forget your plume of panache and swordmaster's flair(blue scarf)
I may get the same damage benefit from Power Attack as Focused Rage, but not the attack bonus which is the far more important of the two IMO, and then there's Reflex saves, skill checks like Acrobatics and Escape Artist, etc. I kind of like having a fair number of skills and more frequent uses of Charmed Life at the same time and I just don't know if I can wait that long for Fencing Grace... but maybe... I'm not ruling too much out just yet.
Could someone please answer my question about Swordmaster's Flair???
you need to be wary about saves (fort and will). i think that dip 2 monk master of many styles is amazing.
+2 to alll saves, imp unarmed strike (crane , snake for damage) and more.also, other than the parry , there isnt a single (+) for a swashbuckler VS a cavalier (daring champion).
Fort saves are actually pretty good because of my dips - and of course there's Charmed Life. In a pinch, I can even raise my CON via Focused Rage if I need to beat a disease or poison save.
Again, considering that this is a PFS character, the otherwise-oh-so-automatic MoMS dip simply isn't a viable option.
Swordmaster's flair is priced individually
Thank you! I couldn't find anywhere that was stated definitively... makes sense though.
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I would suggest more of a stat investment in str due to equipment weight and power attack.
Power Attack isn't very useful for Swashbucklers.
1. They get the same penalty with only 2/3 the benefit since they use a one-handed weapon. (The 2:1 ratio isn't really worth it except against rather low AC targets, especially with how much static damage Swashbucklers get.)
2. It lowers your roll for Parry, effectively lowering your defenses.
3. It lowers the number of crits you get, effectively lowering how much Panache you have to work with.
If you already had a 13 STR it'd be a borderline feat for a Swashbuckler which they'd use sporadically. It's definitely not worth the 8 ability score points that it would cost this build to bump their STR up to 13 in addition to the cost of a feat.
Again, considering that this is a PFS character, the otherwise-oh-so-automatic MoMS dip simply isn't a viable option.whats the change? you still get +2X3 saves and the ability to add 2 style feats no ?
As I understand it, MoMS isn't PFS-legal, if that's what you're asking...
just take str 10-12 after racial for not falling after the first str damaging rogue - and piranha strike
While I love everything about this character concept, its not hard to see that his weaknesses will be STR damage and Will saves.
Unfortunately I can't use Pirahna Strike with a Rapier - even a small Rapier, which I find frustrating to no end. However, Halflings do get the Risky Striker feat as an option to make up for it.|
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I would suggest more of a stat investment in str due to equipment weight and power attack.
Power Attack isn't very useful for Swashbucklers.
1. They get the same penalty with only 2/3 the benefit since they use a one-handed weapon. (The 2:1 ratio isn't really worth it except against rather low AC targets, especially with how much static damage Swashbucklers get.)
2. It lowers your roll for Parry, effectively lowering your defenses.
3. It lowers the number of crits you get, effectively lowering how much Panache you have to work with.
If you already had a 13 STR it'd be a borderline feat for a Swashbuckler which they'd use sporadically. It's definitely not worth the 8 ability score points that it would cost this build to bump their STR up to 13 in addition to the cost of a feat.
just take str 10-12 after racial for not falling after the first str damaging rogue - and piranha strike
Piranha Strike doesn't work with a rapier - only with light weapons.
As I understand it, MoMS isn't PFS-legal, if that's what you're asking...
Again, considering that this is a PFS character, the otherwise-oh-so-automatic MoMS dip simply isn't a viable option.whats the change? you still get +2X3 saves and the ability to add 2 style feats no ?
Really?
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Combat
The playtest versions of the gunslinger, ninja, and samurai are no longer legal for play as of 8/4/11.All material from this book is legal for play except as noted below. Some rules elements are legal but function differently in Pathfinder Society Organized Play, as described.
I don't see anything that forbids Master of Many Styles. There have been errata against it, but the archetype is still legal as far as I know.
MoMS just works differently now.
If you're only taking a level of Monk to make Crane Style easier, then you can get free Improved Unarmed and free Dodge from any Monk, including unchained. Or you can use one level of Unarmed Fighter for free Improved Unarmed and Crane Style. So you don't need to even sacrifice a point of BAB.
EDIT: in fact, you can combine Blood Conduit Bloodrager and Urban Bloodrager to get free Improved Unarmed Strike from your 1 level Bloodrager dip.
With a 30 AC don't think of your Repose as a defensive ability, think of it as another attack.
You're probably going to be all right with your saves. I leveled my Inspired Blade Swashbuckler to level 10 in PFS and with Charmed Life, rarely had any issues. I didn't bother using it with Reflex, I only used it on really important Fort saves, and always used it on Will saves. This method I never ran out of uses and rarely had issues.
You're probably going to be all right with your saves. I leveled my Inspired Blade Swashbuckler to level 10 in PFS and with Charmed Life, rarely had any issues. I didn't bother using it with Reflex, I only used it on really important Fort saves, and always used it on Will saves. This method I never ran out of uses and rarely had issues.
Ugh - unfortunately Charmed Life won't work with Irrepressible.
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You're probably going to be all right with your saves. I leveled my Inspired Blade Swashbuckler to level 10 in PFS and with Charmed Life, rarely had any issues. I didn't bother using it with Reflex, I only used it on really important Fort saves, and always used it on Will saves. This method I never ran out of uses and rarely had issues.Ugh - unfortunately Charmed Life won't work with Irrepressible.
That still leaves nearly 1/2 of will saves to use it on.
Charmed life is pretty hard to use. It means you didn't parry that round.
Charmed life is pretty hard to use. It means you didn't parry that round.
Parrying doesn't eat up your immediate action, Ripostes do. Parrying only eat up your AoOs.
I am generally ok with power attack on swashbucklers, but for halflings it can be a pain in the posterior getting enough strength.
However, what about risky striker? Halfling swashbucklers should have quite high AC from their high dexterity and class features alone, and that is before you consider the crane style feat chain. Trading some of that for damage when you need to is imo definitely a good option. Yes, the extra damage only applies against creatures that are 2+ size categories larger than you... but that is quite a few creatures.
I am generally ok with power attack on swashbucklers, but for halflings it can be a pain in the posterior getting enough strength.
However, what about risky striker? Halfling swashbucklers should have quite high AC from their high dexterity and class features alone, and that is before you consider the crane style feat chain. Trading some of that for damage when you need to is imo definitely a good option. Yes, the extra damage only applies against creatures that are 2+ size categories larger than you... but that is quite a few creatures.
I find that to be an ideal option for Martial Flexibility, just one of many reasons that I have the Brawler dip as part of this build.
I think Archaeologist Bard is a super 1st level dip for a future Swashy.
YOU LOSE: -1 BAB and -1 dam. You will obviously gain your Swashbuckler features a little later. Your Iterative attacks will be 1 level behind too.
YOU GAIN: cantrips and 1st Level spells (Grease anyone? Windy Escape?)
+2 to your Will saves (addressing a real weakness of the Swashbuckler here)
The ability to use many wands – including the eternally useful wand of CLW
Bardic Knowledge
2 extra skill points
And best of all - Archaeologist's Luck: As a swift action, an archaeologist can call on fortune’s favor, giving him a +1 luck bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls. He can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + his Charisma modifier.
Combine Archaeologist's Luck with Fate's Favored trait (to increase the luck bonus to +2 on attack rolls, saving throws, damage rolls and skill checks) and the Lingering Performance feat and you can cycle your luck.
Archeologist's Luck continues for 2 rounds after it is discontinued. This basically triples the number of rounds if it is cycled in 3 round increments. It only costs a swift action to activate Archaeologist's Luck, nothing to discontinue it or to make it linger for another 2 rounds.
With a 16 Cha, you would have 21 rounds of luck!
Incidentally, not sure if this 'Luck cycling' is PFS legal. Can anyone advise? If it isn't it surely would be good for most regular games, as it is within the written rules.
Consider trading the halfling luck trait for adaptable luck. Your halfling luck will not stack with Archaeologist's Luck, which you would presumably have active in combat most of the time. So, just in case you get ambushed and do not have Archaeologist's Luck activated, adaptable luck will give you:
3 times/day gain +3 (with Fate's Favored) on an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, if used before the roll or +2 (with Fate's Favored) on the same if used afterwards. This does not cost an action. Being able to use that +2 after the roll on attack rolls and skill checks (once Charmed Life comes online to cover your saves) is just great!
Incidentally, if you really want Piranha Strike for your rapier, you can have it with a magical item called Effortless Lace. (Sorry newbie poster - I can't do links yet)
Full disclosure and credit here - this build is heavily influenced by Zoli Tileani's profile (again sorry I couldn't do a link here).
Windy Escape is a racial spell, unless it has been reprinted somewhere other than ARG. In PFS, they are only allowed to someone of that race -- Sylph in this case.
Looking at it, I think that Archeologist's Luck would work with Lingering Performance because of this line:
Archaeologist’s luck is treated as bardic performance for the purposes of feats, abilities, effects, and the like that affect bardic performance.
Without that, it wouldn't work since it isn't a performance.
Thanks for that BretI - I thought it was pretty powerful for a 1st level spell!
Still there are plenty of other 1st level Bard spells to choose from.
For this dip I would also recommend the trait Vagabond Child (urban) which gives disable device as a class skill and adds +1 to it.
You can be a wand using, spell casting, trap disarming, lock picking swashy. With your wand of CLW, you'll never be short of friends, and you can look after the dedicated party healer if they go down.
With Dex 18, and points in stealth and you can fill the Rogue roll.
With Cha 16, and points in Diplomacy and you'll be a pretty good face too.
You'll never be short of things to do with this build.
Alright, so I made several sample builds, swapping the Barbarian dip for various iterations of of Monk, 1 level or 2 levels, standard and MoMS... going Monk I get a mild bump in saves and accelerate my AC progression a fair bit, but I take a -4 attack penalty and a -3 damage penalty (-1 BAB, no Focused Rage, +1 enhancement instead of a Furious Weapon). I think that's more than I want to lose... I'm still looking at it though.
Again, I appreciate all of the advice.
What about starting out:
Halfling
Blood Conduit + Urban Bloodrager 1 / Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler
Traits: Irrepressible, Blade of Mercy
1WD. (+Swashbuckler's Finesse) / Dodge
2WD.
3WD. Combat Reflexes
4BC/UB. *Controlled Bloodrage* / (+Improved Unarmed Strike)
5WD. *Whirling Dervish Dex-to-Damage* / +S: Crane Style / Extra Rage
6WD.
7WD. +S: Crane Wing / Weapon Trick - Stylish Riposte
8WD. *Whirlwind Dance*
9WD. Iron Will / +S: Crane Riposte
This way you only lose one level of Swashbuckler progressions and keep full BAB, you gain your 12/day rage, and you've got stylish/wing working by 7 and full Crane by 9. Rather than using Opportune Parry and Riposte, you can use Dodging Panache to add your CHA on top of the +9 from Dodge and Crane Style before getting to make a tactical move.
With Controlled Rage, Whirlwind Dance, Crane Style, Dodging Panache and reach, you can run around the battlefield striking targets... and daring them to eat ripostes as they flail against your enormous AC.
FYI - Effortless Lace is not PFS legal.
I really think that 1-2 Monk levels is worth it. It isn't a mild bump to your saves. +2/+3 is big. It also accelerates your feat progression which IMO is more important than the temporary benefits your focused rage would give you.
BadBird has a decent suggestion with the Bloodrager dip. I think the Monk lends itself better to the build, but his idea is good too. It is at least better than the Barbarian dip.