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Yes.
It is a numerical part of the spell, hence maximized.


mdt wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
mdt wrote:
minoritarian wrote:
mdt wrote:
Beopere wrote:
Gauss wrote:

Cheapy, sometimes I still regret pointing out that Arbiters can be used to suck up 1/2 of the damage for an entire party. No other familiar can do the same thing.

Good thing nobody in my group(s) would try such a thing. :)

- Gauss

Oh no... Why did you bestow the burden of this knowledge upon me...
I don't see how it's doing this, nothing in it's bestiary entry has anything about it 'sucking up damage'.
Shield Other?
I don't see that ability anywhere in the block.
Because no one would ever cast that spell on their familiar with the share spell ability -- especially not when the familiar has regeneration, and can be easily hidden.
Ah, ok, not seeing a lot of HP there though, and only 2 regen. So kind of useful at lower levels. And not sure it's worth the expenditure of 4 to 6 spells to get it for the whole party as stated.

A familiar has ½ its master's hit points. The basic rules for familiars doesn't change just because it is an improved one.


There should be nothing wrong with using a biped for the idea. Have it walk on its limbs (arms) as well, fluff them to look like whatever, and not gain the extra movement. Nothing wrong with that, as you don't gain anything.

Edit: It's even kinda within the rules, as the rules does state that you can make the eidolon look like almost whatever you choose.


And their price means that their only drawback is the weight. Wizards might actually find them too much to carry (sorcerers are better off here, no need to carry that heavy spellbook).

It is a great little piece of equipment, and can be a nice way to get a cheap bonus to stealth and/or escape artist (via the Shadow and Slick armour magical special abilities, a +5 bonus for 3750). Spell Storing is another fantastic ability (auto cast a touch spell of 3rd level or less when hit by a melee attack, at the cost of +1 bonus), as is Expeditious (more movement, cost: 4000).

A clear must-have equipment IMHO. At mid-high levels, all that is easily affordable, and very nice for the price.


Yes, and I'm telling you the rules don't work that way. Limbs are either arms or legs. It is clearly stated so.
You can fluff it so that it walks on his hands, but there are no speed increase, no bonus to stability, nothing changes rulewise. The rules are very clear.

If you can convince your GM otherwise, sure, go for it, but it is not how the rules are written.


Limbs are either legs or arms, not both. Arms have hands, legs have feet.

You can have one attack on your legs, but a strict RAW reading of the rules lets you get both one set of claws and one set of hooves on two pair of legs. I'm not sure that is RAI, but it doesn't matter that much, as hooves are s$+~ty anyway, there is only one kind of build were I could see this working well.

Height is an odd thing, there are no rules to support it. So that question, and how it works, is up to the GM.


No. The prerequisites are there for both game balance and fluff.

Eldritch Heritage is tremendously powerful, so it should not be easy to get.


Gnomes of Golarion is an astoundingly poorly designed book.

Caustic Slur, Helpless Prisoner and Babble-Peddler are all horrid feats, but worse than their minimal usefulness (and in the case of Caustic Slur, downright harmful), is the potential effect they can have on roleplaying.
They all cover aspects of the game, that should really only be covered by roleplaying. And that is a crime, and REALLY poor design.
It should not take a feat to sweat-talk/annoy the jailer to loosen your ropes a bit, it should take roleplaying (and perhaps a diplomacy/bluff roll on top of that roleplaying).

They are also mind-affecting effects, meaning that constructs, plants, undeads, and so on, are immune to them.
This is the only good thing about them, because that means they are something besides just using bluff.
They should never have been.

Luckily they are constrained to Gnomes.
But I still think that I will instantly kill any character that turns up with one of them.


HaraldKlak wrote:
Leisner wrote:


For example, if the enemy needs a 6+ to hit (or 3-in-4), then a +4 to AC means that the chance to hit goes from 75% to 55%, a 27% increase in protection (similar to a 27% miss chance).
If the enemy need 11+ to hit (1-in-2), then the hit probability goes from 50% to 30%, a 40% increase in protection.

Yes and no.

Your example has the correct chances to hit. And that is correctly a 27 % reduction in the chance to hit. While you can use that to determine the decrease in DPR (following the normal limitations of DPR calculation), it cannot be interpreted as a miss chance.

To get a miss chance, you need to look at the miss percentages, which show a different picture.

With a to hit bonus of +9:
Against AC 11 = miss on 1 (5%)
Against AC 15 = miss on 5 or lower (25%)
Against AC 19 = miss on 9 or lower (45%)
Against AC 23 = miss on 13 or lower (65%)
Against AC 27 = miss on 17 or lower (85%)

Numerically speaking, this is an 20 % increase in miss chance for each +4 AC. And relatively speaking, the increase in chance to miss is more significant the lower AC you have (80% increase from AC 15 to 19, and 44 % increase from AC 19 to AC 23).

I am not saying this is a more correct approach to compare AC to DR. Yet both calculations are too narrow to provide a clean comparison.

No, just yes, because a numerical comparison is completely useless.

It could be that you misunderstood my use of "miss chance", I certainly didn't explain it. I meant the effect, as given by, for example, partial concealment, not the chance that the baddie will miss you with his attack.
A miss chance effect comparison is useful here, because it is a good measuring stick in that both effects have a similar outcome.

A DR 4 is similar to a miss chance (the effect, not the chance that the baddie will miss you) of 20% if the attack does 20 points of damage.
To compare that to an AC boost of 4, you need to look at the relative boost in effectiveness, not the numerical increase. A relative effectiveness boost of 20% is about the same (technically better, but I'm not bothering with crits here), while a numerical boost of 20% says nothing about how much damage it will stop on average.


Pupsocket wrote:

DR 4 is worth 4 HP * hit probability, per attack. So, almost 4 points per attack, provided every enemy hits you on 2+.

+4 AC is worth 20% of the damage of every incoming attack - provided that it moves you 4 pips on the die.

As DonDuckie noted, that is not completely true.

The only time +4 to AC equals a 20% miss chance, so to speak, is if the enemy hits you on a 2+. If the enemy needs more than that, which is usually the case with fighters, it is more than 20% (and less, if the enemy has a to-hit bonus higher than the character's AC).

The fun thing about AC, is that a bonus to AC is better the higher your AC is.

For example, if the enemy needs a 6+ to hit (or 3-in-4), then a +4 to AC means that the chance to hit goes from 75% to 55%, a 27% increase in protection (similar to a 27% miss chance).
If the enemy need 11+ to hit (1-in-2), then the hit probability goes from 50% to 30%, a 40% increase in protection.

Which is best, DR 4/- or +4 AC, depends on what hard the average enemy hits, and what the average enemy to-hit vs. AC ratio is.
If the enemy hits for an average 10 points of damage, and needs a 11+ to hit, then they are about equal, with the AC edging out the DR because of crit confirmation. Any increase in the average damage, will be in favour of the AC boost, any increase in the AC will favour the AC boost, and any increase in the average enemy to-hit will favour the DR.
An increase in number of attacks favours the AC boost a little, again due to crit confirmation.
Edit: This doesn't take into consideration that dodge AC also works against stuff that DR doesn't.

AC is, from an optimization POW, an all-or-nothing kinda thing.


williamoak wrote:
Call the void seem... wicked. If I quicken a dim door, port into a group of enemies, then cast it... it's devastation.

The problem with Dimension Door is this little line in the spell description:

"After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn."

One of the reasons why the Ratling is so fantastic, because it can cast Dimension Door for you, and take you along with it.


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Cory Stafford 29 wrote:


I didn't say I was multiclassing summoner with Mystic Theurge. PFS let's you completely rebuild a 1st level character before they get to 2nd level. I was thinking about doing that and making the character a cleric/sorcerer instead of a summoner. Multiclassing summoner is bad news especially for mystic theurge, unless you want to deliberately weaken the character.

Sorry, missed that. In my defence, I was complete and utterly drunk when I wrote that.


So, you want to completely gimp one class, to get another class, albeit at a lower level. Okay.

The one thing that a summoner has, that no other class has, is the eidolon. That will become useless if you do not take summoner levels. No prestige class enhance the eidolon. No prestige class or other class adds to the eidolon.
The only way you could gain from multiclassing a summoner, is to take the synthesist archetype, and that archetype is illegal in PFS.

The summoner has got a very decent spell list, but not good enough to use it for a Mystical Theurge.
If you want to play a full caster, start over. Get a full caster class. Go wild with Mystical Theurge. But the summoner is a poor class for it. Very poor.


9 is almost 50% more than 6.5, so a guy that takes three hits to drop with the one handed option, only requires two hits to take out with the two-handed option, a huge boost.
In a one-on-one situation, a 50% increase in damage, mean 50% less attacks on yourself before the battle is over. The enemy might hit more often, but will probably damage you less.


Hiya Frosty.
;)


TarkXT wrote:
Leisner wrote:

Just to update on the Wild Caller.

It appears that they are supposed to be able to use their Summon Nature's Ally SLA while their eidolon is out.
That takes the archetype from a weak, small fluffy nerf, to an overpowered monster O' death.

A wee bit of hyperbole there, but they are VERY powerful with that rule.

Have a link for the proof of this?

Sorry, should have linked to it in the first place, this post from James Jacobs.


Just to update on the Wild Caller.
It appears that they are supposed to be able to use their Summon Nature's Ally SLA while their eidolon is out.
That takes the archetype from a weak, small fluffy nerf, to an overpowered monster O' death.

A wee bit of hyperbole there, but they are VERY powerful with that rule.


williamoak wrote:

What familiar did you favor? Seeing as I'm building constructs, I was thinking the inevitable arbiter, since he gets make whole.

Then again, maybe I should be working on my combat ability.

Depends on your alignment.

The standard +4 int familiar (i.e. Greensting Scorpion) is quite nice. All
The Arbiter is good because it is tremendously hard to kill, and is certainly useful with constructs. LN
The Faerie Dragon is a great scout, with some useful SLAs as well, plus telepathy is great for "silent running". Its breathweapon has a low DC, but costs nothing to use, but staggered and sickened is a very powerful debuff and sometimes the enemy rolls low. CG
The Lyrakien has an array of decent SLAs, and is an okay scout, especially useful if you have a barbarian friend. CG
The Quasit demon is a great scout, though that is most of its use. CE
Ratling. I love this creature. Decent scout, but it has the best array of special abilities of any familiar. 3 dimension doors a day (the only familiar that can use dimension door with a "passenger"), with the ability to use any scroll of 3rd level and below (higher requires a caster level roll, and a UMD roll to simulate a higher cha). This can turn into your personal taxi, or an emergency healer (scroll of remove X, dimension door to the victim, dimension door him out). Unfortunately CE only due to the text that followed it when it was introduced.
Silvanshee, decent scout, with some situational useful special abilities. NG
Tidepool Dragon, has 7 (!) obscuring mists a day, plus some other useful SLAs. CN


Any SLA that copies a spell, functions as that spell in any way, except when specifically noted.
Hell, you can use a SLA as a prerequisite instead of (a) spell(s).


The duration of Vermin shape if 1min/level, but it lacks that little (D) notation, so it can't be dismissed.

Is this intentional?

I certainly hope not.
It would be rather odd if it was the only beneficial polymorph spell that can't be dismissed.

Is there an errata somewhere I have missed?


Get it as an SLA.


"No reply required". Really?


With a recent FAQ in mind, both Half-orcs and Humans can use it via Racial Heritage.


karossii wrote:

Nothing on this planet is inorganic, by one definition.

What definition would that be?

How is Technetium organic?


Restores100HP wrote:
Lamontius wrote:

Some princes start out as frogs, go for it

Haha, nice.

Don't knock it, in the Kingmaker campaign I'm in, there's a barbarian princess, probably from some amazonian tribe, as she keeps insulting and belittle every male, though mostly the group.

Whether or not the Gippli is an appropriate race mostly depends on your GM TBH.

(that trait was once female only)


MordredofFairy wrote:

I believe with the Broodmaster it is action economy. Having up to 8 Eidolons could turn out nasty. I do believe you could also wreak some havoc with 2 medium ones, even if they have to share points.

Plus a lot of questions, such as one eidolon mounted on the other.
[snipped for space]

Yeah, the Broodmaster is banned because PFS doesn't allow more than one companion.


MordredofFairy wrote:
Chris Kenney wrote:

Basically irrelevant. Most of the things banned from PFS are banned for one of the following reasons:

1) Off-theme. This is the top one, and usually comes down to the campaign manager of the moment.

2) Time. If something is going to take inordinate amounts of time to run at the table, it will tend to get banned because PFS has to run in limited time slots.

3) Table Variation. If something requires a large amount of GM interpretation, and it can't be controlled for in a simple post or FAQ entry, it will be banned for that.

The Synthesist calls into question some basic things about Golarion's metaphysics (Possession is the domain of a very limited band of outsiders, and Eidolons aren't on that list.) It's very complicated and not especially well written, so moreso than the normal Summoner it requires a lot of deliberation and on-the-spot judgment calls. It also has a large number of FAQ entries without relevant errata, creating massive table variation depending on whether the GM is aware of the extra rulings. Thus, it falls under all three criteria for banning before power level is even considered.

Very well, i have to admit i was not aware of that.

However, in that case a number of other questions pop up:
Namely, why normal summoners aren't affected?
Surely if a fused eidolon is off theme, one used as a mount is not much better?
As for the time, wouldn't the doubled action economy of a summoner with an separate eidolon(which still has the same evolutions etc.) take even more time?
In regards to table variation, i have to admit i have no idea about the inherent complexity. To me, the basic synthesist seemed more straightforward than the regular summoner with an eidolon that got it's own feats and skills(and interactions thereof, e.g. a flying eidolon with reach hovering above used as mount).

In other words, why is the normal summoner in?

And what is the reasoning for banning things "after power level is considered"? Because...

And why is Broodmaster also banned. That is arguably the weakest of the summoner types.

The answer is it isn't that simple.
I doubt the Synthesist was banned due to being "overpowered", but more likely due to the poor writing of the rules. It is the archetype that have caused the most rules questions, and many that build one, unwittingly break the rules as written.
It doesn't help that quite a few at Paizo dislike the summoner altogether.


The eidolon is a very odd outsider. But it was certainly intended to need to breathe, otherwise there would be little point in having a Gills evolution.


The characters all had their parents killed by orcs. Or otherwise orphans.

If they were killed by smurfs, now that would be fun.


Tumskunde wrote:
Yeebin wrote:
According to the description on the link of Heirloom Wep, you would only get +1 or +2 if you had an AoO or CBM respectively. I would not think that it would add wep proficiency.

** spoiler omitted **

Actually, you get a choice of proficiency or one of the other two.
You still need to buy the weapon though.
[edit]It appears that you can't enchant an Heirloom Weapon in PFS using the Masterwork Transformation route at this point in time, makes no sense to me, and no don't try to explain it, I don't want to derail this thing, still you could use Magic Weapon spells and Magic Arrows to get around that limitation.[/edit]

Well, you don't get a weapon proficiency, you just know how to use that specific weapon (proficient with that specific weapon, and only that specific weapon, so hope you don't meet any enemy with sunder, or a thief ect.)


LazarX wrote:
A summoned creature can't use SLA's which require material components with a cost.

While true, I don't see how it is relevant?


LazarX wrote:
Leisner wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Kimera757 wrote:
You can also use Planar Binding, but that's risky.
It's even riskier for Summoners, who don't have magic circle abjuration spells to fall back on, unless they UMD a scroll.
They do have access to Dimensional Anchor (SMVII -> Bone Devil), and if they have the feat Summon Good Monster, they also have access to Magical Circle Against Evil (SMIX -> Couatl).
Dimensional Anchor only means that your summon can't leave. It won't stop it from ripping you to shreds if things go south. And casting that spell will probably send things southward in a big hurry.

See my edit. Both spells are on their spell list.


LazarX wrote:
Kimera757 wrote:
You can also use Planar Binding, but that's risky.
It's even riskier for Summoners, who don't have magic circle abjuration spells to fall back on, unless they UMD a scroll.

They do have access to Dimensional Anchor (SMVII -> Bone Devil,), and if they have the feat Summon Good Monster, they also have access to Magical Circle Against Evil (SMIX -> Couatl).

They are also both in their spell list.


A druid IMHO. They have quite a few animal buff spells. Animal Growth and Strong Jaw comes to mind.

(Edit: That is, they are second best to the Summoner, which is a class designed around its pet. And don't discount the Wild Caller, they make for excellent Kali build Summoners, which is a contender for highest DPR there is)


Hand out the control of the summons to other players. That way all will get more playing time, and the fight might even go a bit faster.


There's no humanoid eidolon, there is a biped eidolon. It isn't strictly the same thing.
Assuming that the claws are not on the hands used to wield a long spear, the eidolon, assuming it is medium sized, would take up 1 square, threaten the squares around it with its claw (5ft), and threaten 10ft with both long spear and claw.
Do note that you need the reach evolution for each attack, and if you grow large, as per the large evolution, the biped will get a 10ft reach on all its attacks.


N. Jolly wrote:
Leisner wrote:

A very minor thing, but a Preservationist gets Summon Nature's Ally, not Summon Monster. The latter is what your C.Hyde build has.

Edit: Nice guide BTW, very useful info, and one of the few that is actually updated!

Check the feats, Auric took Planar Preservationist, which allowed it to get Summon Monster instead.

And thanks, I'm trying to keep on top of everything while I do my new guide.

I didn't even know there was a feat that did that (I haven't played an alchemist yet, but it is on my short list). Nice.

See, the guide does help :D .


Just to be completely clear on the Attacks of Opportunity.
You never provoke an attack by entering a threatened square, only by leaving one.
But you do provoke a separate, and different, attack by entering another creature's square.
You can only provoke one attack of opportunity from leaving a threatened square.
And as Murphy stated, the enemy do not get more than one attack of opportunity per round, unless they have some special power or feat.

Don't see strength as a body-builder type strength, but as a part of physical perfection. It could be what an NFL tackle player has, as opposite what a rhythmic gymnast has. They are both closer to physical perfection than regular people, and can learn other physical disciplines faster. So if both, and a regular Joe, all had to learn to fight with a sword, the two strength and dex based people would learn it more quickly, in game, have a higher bonus to hit from their respective attributes.


A very minor thing, but a Preservationist gets Summon Nature's Ally, not Summon Monster. The latter is what your C.Hyde build has.

Edit: Nice guide BTW, very useful info, and one of the few that is actually updated!


Masterwork tools?


Not really possible IMHO, as the Scimitar isn't a monk weapon, and the Martial Artist ability only applies to such weapons (and not whole weapon groups).


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I don't think anyone actually argues that the classes are balanced per se, but argues that the DM can balance them out by tailoring adventures, magic items and powers.

I think it's b****ks, and they are horribly balanced, and should be better balanced in a game that relies so much on combat, but I don't like to participate in futile discussions. There seems to be little gained be repeating the same arguments over and over.

Edit: That word is censored? Okay, will not use it in the future.


DrDeth wrote:
The devs have also said that Cohorts are generally NOT to be used to make magic items, so the same would go with a Eidolon.

You could argue that they are not the same situation, as a cohort is not a class feature, but just comes from a feat, while the eidolon is a class feature.

The argument does hold some value, as with a cohort, you exchange one feat for many, and get some added benefits on top, while with the eidolon, you do exchange some power for the ability to craft.

I would agree that the eidolon probably isn't intended to be used this way.

I, personally, would actually allow this, the feats are still lost on the eidolon, so it would be a trade-off, and if the player is an evolutionist, great, a boost to a weak archetype, and he isn't, well that is some evolution/skill points that could have been spend on other things, again a trade-off.
On a Master Summoner's eidolon, not a chance.


Be sure to include every major character. Have Mom and the Professor have a kid, and have Mom have two more besides, they should probably be half-something, half ape half squid half human (yes, one-and-a-half person each!).
Zoidberg could be the friendly neighbourhood surgeon/healer/tailor.
Scruffy could be the local barkeeper/rumourmonger.
Amy would be the local rich merchants kid and an apprentice wizard, apprentice to the Professor of course.
And the college of wizards should have Ogden Wernstrom as a school head wizard, probably school of transmutation, and might have had a relationship with Mom, and might be responsible for the two eldest things of Moms.


Mom is a necromancer. Hell, she was one in the show (she was described as an evil sorceress, but seriously, she's a necromancer). Indeed, why not just use the classes from Bender's Game? Most of them are presented in some way.

Edit: Fry I'd say is a rogue. Somewhat useless, and surviving mostly due to luck.


Noireve wrote:


Come back to me when your druid can drop summon monster IX 15 per day (+10 modifier at 20 isn't that hard) that all have +4 strength/con and can cast Summon Monster VIII 6 times. Oh and just abotu EVERY master summoner has the Superior Summoning feat. Oh and each of those creatures have...

So you are talking about the Master Summoner? Because they do get 5+cha bonus of Summon Monster each day, though 3+cha bonus is not bad either.

But how do you get the summoned creatures to summon other creatures? Or are you using Gate here?
And Druids do have several nice summing boosting feats as well, like something that makes the summoned creature overcome that pesky damage reduction.


DungeonMastering.com wrote:
Caineach wrote:
There has been at least 1 discussion about how much damage you need to do to stay competative against level appropriate monsters,
That discussion sounds intriguing b/c it's something I've always wondered & worried about with my own character builds. But I can't seem to find this thread- can someone please link me?

It's a three year old thread, so you might not get a reply.


Edit: Just realized this was yet another attack of the evil necromancer overlords.

Kill it with fire!


You smell that? That is a year old zombie. Someone bring the inquisitor, there has been a necromancer loose again. Oh, and fire, you can always use fire.


Great post!

Master Summoners can get the combo at level 2, before they are actually able to summon pseudodragons.

Another fantastic summon at this level, and one that compliment the pseudodragon perfectly, is the faun. With a Hideous Laughter at DC 16 that targets will save, you can hurt those BSF. They can also flank, and provide weak archery support, plus they speak common.

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