Can my Eidolon run on all 4's but stand to attack?


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

Hey Gang!

What I am trying to do is have my Eidolon run/move on all 4's but stand to attack. Kind of like how aliens move in the movie "Aliens". I am not sure if that would be the quad form or just the biped form with me just adding in flavor that it runs that way.

Edit:
I would like to have it have hands and claw attacks on the front limbs.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

War horses get to attack with front hooves but are quadra-peds.

You could build your eidolon either way (quad or bi ped) so long as your stats are right for that form. If you build it biped, you can describe it moving like a monkey (using the forearms too) just so long as you don't try to claim any of the mechanical benefits of being a quadra-ped without, you know, actually being a quadra-ped.


It would be a quad, you can add claws on their front legs to attack with. The problem is that these have to be "legs" and cannot be used to grab things as if they had hands.

Otherwise you can just make a biped and SAY he runs that way, though it won't give mechanical benefits.


I'd use Quad base form and say it rears up to attack things. It works for bears.

Silver Crusade

Flavorwise, you can have your Eidolon attack however it wants, as long as you're not doing anything ridiculous

Mechanically, you have to make sure that you're following the rules for the base form you chose, so you can't for example say that you have a quadruped with pounce and enhanced movement, but once it gets to the target, it rears up and suddenly gains reach like a biped. Likewise, you can't have your biped run along the ground on 4 limbs and then argue that using it's arms to run gives it a speed boost like it had 4 legs. Those are mechanical limitations.

Remember that each base form is pretty much the same, only a slight few differences.

Bipeds gain 5 feet of reach every time they increase size and are the strongest

Quads can take Rake and Pounce and are faster

Serpentine can Constrict


I think a gorilla could be similar too, I would consider them bipeds who walk on their knuckles.

I think everyone nailed it though saying there is no mechanical difference but your eidelon can pretty much look like whatever you want :D


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It can run on all fours, but switch to standing on hind legs when using Knowledge skills.

It only stands to reason.


As far as flavor goes, you should have no problem. I would say pick the base form that you'd consider it looking like more often. Otherwise, its speed and forms of attack won't change except with what you want it to.

That said, Elamdri is correct. Unless your GM is cool with it, you should be careful on what abilities it gets. No pouncing if you start with quadruped base form, for example, and no manipulating objects in those 'hands' if you go with quadruped.

For your example, it sounds like you'd want to start with Biped (since they get the claws), but either one can work fine, I think.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would just make it a quadruped, give it two arms via evolutions, and describe it as having four limbs, not six (it's fore-legs can be used as hands as easily as feet).

In the end, it's all just flavor. Just don't break any actual rules without your GM's permission.

seebs wrote:

It can run on all fours, but switch to standing on hind legs when using Knowledge skills.

It only stands to reason.

:D


Following this due to a similar question.

So we have a quadruped. Then I grab the Limbs (arms) evolution to make it centaur like. Then I grab a second Lims (arms) evolution. Now with this one, I "combine" it with the legs so that the middle appendages can function as either feet (+10 speed) or hands (claws, pincers, w/e). Seeing as how I can make the thing look however I want, would this be within the rules structure? My DM is super strict, so think like one is playing PFS.

Also, if this centaur like creature (body length of quadruped with a biped torso stuck on the front) stood up on its hind legs, what would be its height? Would it be that 7'11" height right before breaking into large size (since it isn't large which starts at 8') or would it in fact break into the large size (for height) but gain no mechanical bennies that normally come with large?

I'm not trying to get large bennies without the large evolution, I just picture this thing being roughly 10-12 feet tall when standing on its hind legs.


Bump


Limbs are either legs or arms, not both. Arms have hands, legs have feet.

You can have one attack on your legs, but a strict RAW reading of the rules lets you get both one set of claws and one set of hooves on two pair of legs. I'm not sure that is RAI, but it doesn't matter that much, as hooves are s*!+ty anyway, there is only one kind of build were I could see this working well.

Height is an odd thing, there are no rules to support it. So that question, and how it works, is up to the GM.


Think about the ape with his handlike feet. He can use these feet to grasp things. That's what I'm attempting to accomplish.

I am trying to build this creature (see below two links) and obtain the biped/quadruped multi form. As you can see the creature's arms do not increase in length so when standing he doesn't get reach. And I'm not trying to get much in the way of benefits of bipedal form. Just the whole "I'm not a horse/ I can sit at the kitchen table" thing.

Quad "Form"

Standing


Yes, and I'm telling you the rules don't work that way. Limbs are either arms or legs. It is clearly stated so.
You can fluff it so that it walks on his hands, but there are no speed increase, no bonus to stability, nothing changes rulewise. The rules are very clear.

If you can convince your GM otherwise, sure, go for it, but it is not how the rules are written.


If you don't want to hold items with the front feet everything should be fine even if you use the quadraped base form. If you do I'm not sure you're out of luck either though. It strikes me that dragons are quadrapeds but can manipulate items with their front claws.

I wouldn't be surprised if grasping stuff in Claws like a dragon would is permissible too. The eidolon model for dragon-like eidolons is a quadraped with Claws, and I'd imagine it being able to grasp objects (though maybe I'm wrong)

Ultimate Magic wrote:


Dragon
The eidolon appears to be a Medium dragon. Making a Small dragon eidolon creates a fairy dragon or pseudodragon. Large or Huge dragons can be created by exchanging one or more of the evolutions below for the large evolution.

26 points: Base Form quadruped; Primary Evolutions claws, tail, tail slap; Secondary Evolutions basic magic (any), blindsense, breath weapon, flight, frightful presence, immunity, magic attacks, minor magic (any), spell resistance, wing buffet.

I wouldn't see allowing a quadraped eidolon with the Claws evolution to grasp items as being overpowered since the Claws themselves have a cost and most worthwhile uses of being able to grasp items will require other abilities which cost skill ranks, evolution points, or feats. I guess going by the strictest interpretation of RAW maybe it wouldn't be possible though.

As a sidebar item, I wonder how folks would feel about an eidolon grasping items with a tentacle. An Alchemist tentacle can grasp, but based on Animal Archive an octopus tentacle apparently can't. The eidolon Tentacle evolution doesn't say anything, so I guess by RAW maybe it can't grasp even though grasping things is kind of what tentacles do.


Wise input Devilkiller. Dragons do seem to be a good template for the concept of grasping/manipulating with front claws.

Are there any rules for a quadruped standing only on hind legs?

Or perhaps would my theme (referring to the fore mentioned creatures) be better suited with biped and an extra set of Limbs (legs) with Claws? I guess I still run into the same issue of "can they be used to manipulate". That's why I figured the middle set of Limbs (legs) could also be Limbs (arms) if I spent the points to purchase two sets of arms. They reading says it can look like whatever you want, so why can't I say that the middle Limbs function as both? I know the argument against "nothing states you can't" is "DnD tells you when you CAN do something not the other way around", however... in this specific circumstance I feel it is relevant due to the ambiguity of the eidolon and its evolutions. Not to mention that I am not gaining anything by combining the two. It is far better (mechanically) to keep them separate.


To be fair, you should be asking your DM, not the boards, because of the ambiguity. We can give your reasonable arguements for and against, but we won't be running the game or have final say on it. The rule set doesn't allow for what you want in a strict reading as has been mentioned. Pitch the idea to the DM and see what they say.


Well if the rules don't allow for it then that's that! Thanks for putting a end result on it.


Deviston wrote:
Are there any rules for a quadruped standing only on hind legs?

To my knowledge there aren't. Its not something you get a penalty or a bonus from, its just sort of something that happens because why not?


There should be nothing wrong with using a biped for the idea. Have it walk on its limbs (arms) as well, fluff them to look like whatever, and not gain the extra movement. Nothing wrong with that, as you don't gain anything.

Edit: It's even kinda within the rules, as the rules does state that you can make the eidolon look like almost whatever you choose.

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