Have to say this is the most fun I have had making a PC in ages.
Thank you Voice of Awesomeness, this is the best Online Xmass Present
Now going to spend hours over xmass playing with this biuld.
:)
Have to say this is the most fun I have had making a PC in ages.
Thank you Voice of Awesomeness, this is the best Online Xmass Present
Now going to spend hours over xmass playing with this biuld.:)
I…actually have to agree. I LOVE having target numbers, with so many options. Usually I’m thinking “how can I get AC70+?” Now I’m thinking “how can I lower his AC? Maybe if he wears a Smiths outfit instead of plate?” And “usually I’d grab the +5 will save. Maybe this time I’ll go with extra hardness instead?” It’s a very different way of making a character, but it’s lots of fun.
Hallo! I spend the weekend reading the vast majority of the adventure(I actually only have the final BBEG encounter left), and took yesterday off from pretty much everything to watch Harley Quinn seasons 3&4 before 5 drops next month.
I'll be back later with possible updates and answers, but wanted to inform everyone of the following:
There is an entire floor of rooms where the ceiling is only forty(40) high.
Please keep this in mind when building your PCs. Obviously, there are ways around this via spells and items, but remember that dispels/disjunctions/AMFs/etc are also a potential occurrence.
I would not rely on things that can possibly go away to keep your size down.
How does the removal of ancestry stat penalties affect ancestries that only get a single +2 to their stats?
if i want to get the herolab files for both normal and mythic fey bound knight, does anyone have a link to such a place?
Nothing? Let sigh
Guess I'll go another route then. Skip that PrC and do another gestalt side than Magus
Maybe Barb
if i want to get the herolab files for both normal and mythic fey bound knight, does anyone have a link to such a place?Nothing? Let sigh
Guess I'll go another route then. Skip that PrC and do another gestalt side than Magus
Maybe Barb
I will try asking in the LG discord tomorrow. I believe that's their creation.
I do appreciate the effort.
I'd rather avoid taking barb. :P
That x4 or x6 Crit hit with all the barb buffs....
X4 and x6 on a Crit is base level 20 cavalier :P
Lance + spirited charge + cavalier capstone
It's not that bad. Only difference is it's in one hit on a charge.
A fighter will prob attack 5 to 6 times
I just do all that in 1 attack. And one attack only
Now if I went Cav/Fighter. That would be a possible x7/x8 Crit and no need to roll confirmation
Asking what is the max stat with Benchmarks is I have int at 40 and was wondering if it should be 36?
I’m not actually going to do it, but ever since the GM mentioned anti-magic fields I’ve been thinking (and laughing) about how funny it would be to make something like a fighter/mystic and spend the resources to make an item that would just create a constant anti-magic field around him. Lol.
Int 40? That is impressive!
On my end...going to give a quick breakdown of where Bolvar is. Both to give the GM an idea of where he is, to ensure that he is meeting expectations and to help me work through it. With all of the options, typing everything out like this is helpful for keeping it all straight. If anything is out of order/too powerful, please tell me so that I can make adjustments.
Classes, spheres, action economy
* Blacksmith / Fire Elementalist (Dwarven smith themed)
* Destruction (fire focused) and nature (fire) spheres. Nothing else.
* Equipment, Brute, Shield and Scout spheres.
* Move Action (shove) Standard Action (Single attack+blast) Swift Action (Hurtful)
Armor Class
* AC 43 Benchmark
* Bolvar: AC 44 Touch AC: 37 FF: 33
* AC 48 vs giants, orcs, undead.
* Dwarven Hatred Style lets him get +4 AC against someone who has already hit him.
- Please tell me if this is alright. If it isn't, I'll drop Dwarven Hatred Style and Defensive Training to get something else. Went with the lightest armor possible to stay close to the benchmark.
Saves
* 25 Benchmark
* +25 Fort/Ref/Will, +2 Hardy
- Exactly hitting benchmark. Being a dwarf gives a situational bonus, which seems in line with expectations.
Other defenses?
* Benchmark: None given
* Bolvar is immune to fire, sneak attacks, and critical hits. He has Cold/Electricity/Acid/Sonic Resist (32). Fast Healing (7). Dr 10/magic (unlikely to come up due to enchantment bonuses, but nice to have) Quite tanky!
Movement
* Benchmark: None given
* Bolvar: 60ft move speed, can give himself 60ft fly speed for 1 round at a time.
To Hit and Expected Damage Value
* +34 to hit and 185 Benchmark
* Bolvar's sample attacks:
Somewhat hard to calculate the EDV. But...he has 3 attacks. If they all hit that is a bit over 200 damage. However, that requires the enemy to be demoralized that round (can only happen once), and it requires everything to hit. So I'm more like...160, usually? More or less? I'm not quite sure.
As a note, his destructive blast can only be used via his hammer. So range 40ft when throwing it. While a downgrade, I felt it was 'in character' for the dwarven smith theme to only have said bursts of flame come from his hammer.
Also, whenever he hits someone, it applies phase locking (dimensional anchor) and legbreaker (-10ft movement speed for 1d4 rounds, free trip attempt if it is a critical hit)
Blacksmith capstone is a free +5 weapon with +8 bonus abilities. Because this is ABP, I made the decision that the +5-enchantment bonus doesn't apply and just wrote it up as a loss.
So what I did was make the choice of having 2x +4 weapons. Then took the Dwarven Thrower, which has the special ability of increasing the enchantment bonus by +1 when held by a dwarf. That gives Bolvar a +5 Warhammer and a +4 Gauntlet. With a sphere talent, the +4 Gauntlet acts as a +4 buckler. I liked the mental image of having a smith wearing studded leather (smith's apron), enchanted gauntlets, and a hammer.
For the +8 bonus abilities, I leaned heavily into making the hammer as 'dwarven' as possible. Hence all of the 'bane' effects against common dwarven enemies. Likewise, I used all of those bonus feats to go down Dwarven Hatred Style, with extra hatred/defensive training options from the race points. While not the most 'effective' choices, it felt very much "in character.
Technically, Bolvar has Craft Magic Weapons/Armor and Craft Wondrous Items, with further bonuses for making things cheaper. I decided that tomes, while wondrous items, shouldn't count for this, as I can't imagine him making them in his forge.
As a smith, he gives buffs to the party that last 24 hours at a time. He is like a bard, in that respect, as he buffs those around him. These are powerful...so it's up to each party member on what they want to take. Everyone gets 4 at a time. Options include:
+5 Fort
+5 Ref
+5 Will
+5 AC and -5 ACP
+10 Damage
Ignore 6 squares of difficult terrain
+10 strength for carry capacity
DR 10/- (swarms)
Ignore 10 hardness vs objects and when sundering and +20 hardness weapon
4x times per day ignore being hit by a ray attack
As can be seen, this can push people over their benchmarks. If that is the case, I would advise taking the difficult terrain, hardness, swarms, and ray abilities. Those will at least keep you from going too high.
Still checking numbers. And haven't settled on Mythic choices yet. Leaning towards trickster...but really can't figure out which one *feels* the most like a dwarven smith. Also, I know that the skills need to be double and triple checked, as there are way too many modifiers involved in them.
Regardless of mythic path, I took the mythic ability Mythic Craft. Just because it felt like the most in character ability to take. That, and Bolvar has gotten so much mileage out of his crafting ability, that it seemed appropriate.
I will try asking in the LG discord tomorrow. I believe that's their creation.
If they have any adaptations of their stuff, I'm interested as well.
I’m not actually going to do it, but ever since the GM mentioned anti-magic fields I’ve been thinking (and laughing) about how funny it would be to make something like a fighter/mystic and spend the resources to make an item that would just create a constant anti-magic field around him. Lol.
Is that a thing you can do? I mean, you activate the AMF, it stops magic items from functioning…which stops the AMF.
Lol! The field can’t affect itself or else the spell would be useless (since it would just cancel itself immediately), but now I’m laughing about the idea of an anti-magic field item that’s just constantly cycling on and off as it activates, cancels itself, and then reactivates itself as soon as the field was gone. Almost like magical blink- every time any kind of magical effect would affect anything you have a 50/50 chance of it being active or suppressed.
While hilarious, the way it would throw off calculations would be horrific. Hilarious, admittedly…but horrific nonetheless.
“ Apotheosis of Antimagic (Su)
At 20th level, the antimage becomes the ultimate stopping force for everything that is magical. The antimage can spend 2 points of nullmagic as a standard action to gain an antimagic aura centered on herself that moves as she does, that prevents the use of magic as per the Protection sphere Spell Ward talent and Antimagic Aura advanced talent, although it has no effect on items with the disrupted ability. ”
“ Antimagic Aura
Prerequisites: Protection sphere (Spell Ward (aegis, ward)), caster level 10th.
When creating a Spell Ward, you may spend an additional spell point to improve the ward’s abilities: The ward stops all magic and summoned creatures without the need for a magic skill check. If this ward is pitted against a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must still attempt a magic skill check against the creature’s spell resistance to banish it.”
This, at least, wouldn’t stop items. So it would be the least disruptive from a AP AP perspective.
INT[40][+15][Base 17][13p buy][Race+4][Levels+5][+3Age][ABP Legendary Mind APB+6][ABP+5Alt Reality/Wish IE inherent]
Are we saying that even with Race bonus, Max starting Stat before level/ABP and age is 18?
Also I am working with Psionics–Magic Transparency So Anti magic field would effect psionics just as they do magics.
If This is the case then there is a very good argument to have a none magic/psionic class on one side of our builds.
I bags Langandry Gunslinger-Investigator
In a gestalt game (especially one of this level) I think it’s a big mistake to build anything that doesn’t have both magical and mundane options. If everything you do requires magic then a simple AMF will completely screw you, and if your only options are mundane then there’s all kinds of situations where you may struggle.
Are Oaths still allowed?
I'm considering taking the Oath of Offering.
Basically, you give up half of your WBL in exchange for 7 Oath Points.
Of course, with Automatic Bonus Progression, we're already at half WBL.
So the question is, how much gold would a character who took Oath of Offering have remaining?
Option A.) 220,000 gp (Oath takes half of current 440,000 WBL)
Option B.) 0 gp (Oath takes half of original 880,000 WBL)
I'm perfectly fine with selecting Option B (in fact, I'd encourage it from a balance perspective), but I just want to make sure of the answer before continuing.
I'm actually in the process of "anti-optimizing" my numbers. I'm firmly in the belief that abilities and spells make more of a difference than numbers do, so this would be quite interesting to see play out.
Are Oaths still allowed?
I'm considering taking the Oath of Offering.
Basically, you give up half of your WBL in exchange for 7 Oath Points.
Of course, with Automatic Bonus Progression, we're already at half WBL.
So the question is, how much gold would a character who took Oath of Offering have remaining?
Option A.) 220,000 gp (Oath takes half of current 440,000 WBL)
Option B.) 0 gp (Oath takes half of original 880,000 WBL)
I'm perfectly fine with selecting Option B (in fact, I'd encourage it from a balance perspective), but I just want to make sure of the answer before continuing.
I'm actually in the process of "anti-optimizing" my numbers. I'm firmly in the belief that abilities and spells make more of a difference than numbers do, so this would be quite interesting to see play out.
Option B is even worse than Oath of Poverty. You should at least get the additional oath points if you go that way. ;)
I suppose that's true, yeah. Oath of Poverty would also work.
Wow, the oaths look amazing! Thanks for pointing those out.
Also…option B is rough. I agree with eriktd.
We should make sure whether or not Oaths are even still allowed, first.
Quite frankly, they're a bit OP. Disallowing them wholesale isn't a bad idea, IMHO.
We should make sure whether or not Oaths are even still allowed, first.
Quite frankly, they're a bit OP. Disallowing them wholesale isn't a bad idea, IMHO.
I love oaths, but they are at least a bit limited in that you can only have up to 10 oath points of boons on your character. I think you can give the excess to your familiar, though. For my character, I really enjoyed the challenge of working around the Oath Against Harm, which seems fundamental to a devout Sarenite. :)
We should make sure whether or not Oaths are even still allowed, first.
Quite frankly, they're a bit OP. Disallowing them wholesale isn't a bad idea, IMHO.
It depends on which ones. As with all things here it’s a balancing act, with all of us trying to not break the game. It’s like…we can all hit AC70+ but need to choose not to.
So I’m personally alright allowing it, with the caveat that certain uses can be denied by the GM if it goes too far.
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Anybody know where you can find the Legendary Witch?
Library of Metzofitz doesn't have it, and the version posted on D20PFSRD doesn't have the patrons, boons, or new/modified hexes that make up the majority of the character class...
D20PFSRD has it, but the link is missing from the Legendary Witch page.
I dont think we allowing capstone benefit or the Boons from Oaths that up states or in fact Class Bonuses, I think with benchmarking,
I could have taken 2 more in from Investigator at Level 20, but nope.
Not going that way, not in good spirit.
2x Level IE any stat at 40 should be the very Max, or we will get some mad builds and we will defeat what we set out to do,
After giving it more thought, I think that if Oaths are to be allowed, the Oath of Poverty should be nerfed to only give half of the usual amount of Oath Points. This is to represent the benefits of Automatic Bonus Progression.
Then, Oath of Offerings could work either way, with the aforementioned Option A granting half of the Oath points, and Option B granting the full amount.
IIRC, these are the only two Oaths that directly affect WBL, so nothing else needs to change. Granted... some Oaths are probably too easy to circumvent, so we should probably just implement a Gentleman's agreement to make sure the Oaths we take actually matter.
What do you guys think?
I dont think we allowing capstone benefit or the Boons from Oaths that up states or in fact Class Bonuses, I think with benchmarking,
I could have taken 2 more in from Investigator at Level 20, but nope.
Not going that way, not in good spirit.2x Level IE any stat at 40 should be the very Max, or we will get some mad builds and we will defeat what we set out to do,
The first post says that capstones are allowed.
Fortuitously, I was just going to ask about that. There's been some suggestion that our PCs are veterans of one or another AP. If I take the With This Sword capstone:
At 20th level, the character’s blade has become as well-known as the character herself. The character selects one item she has—preferably something iconic and significant, such as a weapon or arcane bond. The item becomes a minor artifact and gains 100,000 gp worth of new powers. The player and the GM should work together to select the new powers, with an eye towards making something memorable yet campaign-appropriate. Characters of any class can select this ability.
Rather than customizing something, could I just take a minor artifact that appears in the AP my character was in? (Or even just a minor artifact in general?) HeroLab doesn't really do custom items AFAIK. On the other hand, given that artifacts have literally no price, it's hard to judge balance between a souped-up normal magic item and an artifact, so this might be a bad idea.
If not that's fine, I can always just take one of the ones that grant extra spells or feats. But having some special item seems like it'd be fun.
What questions are still outstanding that need my direct input? I know Sir Longears has answered a few, which I greatly appreciate, so unsure what I need to address.
Mostly waiting for info if HL files are available ;)
What questions are still outstanding that need my direct input? I know Sir Longears has answered a few, which I greatly appreciate, so unsure what I need to address.
Are Oaths allowed?
If they are, should Oath of Poverty give half of the Oath points to account for Automatic Bonus Progression?
As for Oath of Offerings, I propose two options:
Option A.) You can give up half of the current 440,000 WBL (i.e. 220,000 gp left) but only gain half of the amount of points (i.e. 3 Oath points instead of 7).
Option B.) You can give up half of the original 880,000 WBL (i.e. 0 gp left) but you gain the full benefit of Oath of Offerings (i.e. 7 Oath points)
The other Oaths don't directly impact Wealth By Level that much and as such aren't affected by the presence of Automatic Bonus Progression. However, we should invoke a gentleman's agreement to only take Oaths that actually have a meaningful restriction.
What say you?
Anyone know what ABP does for unarmed strike?
It’s just a weapon option. You can have it be +5 enchantment or +4 with a second weapon as +4 as well.
Also I’m thinking…path of candor with integral oath.
“ Oath of Candor (1 Oath Point)
Oath: Your words will betray no falsehood. You are not allowed to deliberately speak any lies, including bluffing, stating half-truths or concealed truths with the intent to deceive, exaggerating, telling white lies, and so on. This applies to all forms of communication. If presented with circumstances where telling the truth would bring harm, you can remain silent.”
“ Integral Oath
You are physically unable to defy your oath.
Prerequisite: Must have sworn at least one Oath.
Benefit: Choose one Oath that you have sworn. The number of Oath points gained from that Oath increases by 1. However, you are not capable of performing any action which would break that Oath.”
The roleplaying from that sounds delicious.
And I’ll be taking this boon:
“ Immortality (Ex) (2 Oath points)
Your body has transcended physical weakness. You do not need to eat, drink, or sleep, and do not age so long as you do not break your oath (this prevents you from gaining bonuses or penalties from aging). At 5th level, you become immune to disease and aging effects. At 10th level, you become immune to poison and do not need to breathe.”
I don’t think it is game breaking, and for a mythic game I love the flavor. Will drop Steel Soul to free up the feat slot, which will also help on lowering saves.
Will also take Oath of Loyalty (Torag) for the boon Renown (Janderhoff and Kravenkus). Mechanically it won’t do anything, but again, it’s for the flavor of a lvl 20 immortal blacksmith being famous.
The first post says that capstones are allowed.Fortuitously, I was just going to ask about that. There's been some suggestion that our PCs are veterans of one or another AP. If I take the With This Sword capstone:
Is this that brakes things
Perfect Body, Flawless Mind (Ex)At 20th level, the character’s endless training and study has resulted in an unmatched mastery of the self. The character increases her ability scores by a collective total of 8. For example, she can increase one score by 8, or one score by 5 and another by 3, or four scores by 2, and so on. Characters of any class can select this ability.
That is +8 on Key ability, which with the build rules will have will have that ability bonus added to To-hit, Saves, AC, and so on. Its not that hard and that PC will have a +8 bonus, we still have Benchmarking to limit but still. It's a big add for one sides capstone.
Anyone know what ABP does for unarmed strike?
Can you enhance an Amulet of Mighty Fists with ABP? I’m not sure how you go about that, since you can’t buy a masterwork AMF.
Its an odd one, as you have Multi hits say for a monk, could be that +4/+4 on your unarmed attacks, ?
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Anyone know what ABP does for unarmed strike?
As an alternate rule, ABP wasn't really thorough with its rules. While there is no FAQ about it, there are posts from the devs here on the boards stating you simply choose "unarmed strike" as your attuned weapon. Simply that.
Even if you could say that you can use a flurry and thus make many attacks, you can also use an attuned monk weapon with it, so there is no difference IMHO.
If you want special materials, you'll have to get an amulet of mighty fists, which conveniently don't even require enhancement bonus on it before adding special abilities. It works perfectly fine.
My honest advice?
Use these when using vanilla classes (such as monk). Can make them out of a special material for DR purposes.
Or as we are using Spheres of Power as an option:
Dragon’s Tattoos
Etching your limbs with exquisite art, your body truly becomes a weapon.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Craft (tattoos) 5 ranks.
Benefit: You learn how to adorn yourself with the sacred tattoos that are said to have been first conceived by an ancient monk known only as “the Dragon”. Covering your body in these intricate tattoos etched by your own hand, your limbs, grapples, and unarmed strikes are now treated as masterwork weapons, and may be enhanced just as any other masterwork weapon. Enhancements applied via this ability apply to all unarmed strikes or grapple checks you make, regardless of the limb you choose to use; essentially, your entire body is treated as a single weapon.
Author's Note: Dragon's Tattoos applies to all of your unarmed strikes and natural attacks, essentially like an amulet of mighty fists.
And also consider taking
Zodiac Tattoos*
Mystical tattoos ward you from harm and transform your skin into protective armor.
Prerequisites: Craft (tattoos) 5 ranks, Unarmored Training or AC Bonus class feature.
Benefit: Covering your body in these intricate tattoos etched by your own hand, you gain the ability to have your skin enchanted with armor special abilities as though it was a suit of +1 leather armor. You cannot have a total bonus of armor special abilities higher than +6. You cannot use this ability to add any armor special abilities that add a flat gp amount to their cost instead of a bonus equivalent.
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With that, you can easily have ABP give you the +5 enchantment bonus, and can even spend gold to get other enchantments on top of it. Perfect for monks and the like who want to feel like they have mythic power and are not relying on items to do it!
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Now guys, about this trend of what is allowed and what is not, the GM posted the initial rules and then another post with some changes. In theory, anything that wasn't changed is still allowed.
The most important thing to keep in mind is that the GM has clearly stated that he is expecting us to keep it reasonable, close to those benchmarks.
With that in mind, I believe trying to narrow down everything that should be allowed or not is a big wast of energy. It is a gestalt mythic game with 3pp. Even if we spend weeks narrowing stuff down, if someone wants to break it, they WILL. This is like herding cats.
As an example, take Strength. Even without the mentioned capstone, legendary gifs, oaths, and so on, you can still break it easily. Legendary witch or alchemist could give a huge alchemical bonus to it, the orc bloodline from sorcerer also gives a huge bonus, then you still have size bonus, and so on.
We need to exercise common sense. The capstone that gives +8 to ability scores is totally fine if you go +2 to four scores. I doubt the GM will be mad about it. On the other hand, using a single stat for everything, even within the rules, has been proven to be insane.
Even if you follow all the "rules", if you still make an utterly broken char, the GM can simply not choose you. I really doubt you'll be able to corner the GM later and say, "oh, but you said it was ok" if your PC is breaking the game.
So my advice is to build whatever you want, using everything in the two posts about the rules and do your best to create something interesting that isn't obviously broken.
Going to note my interest in this. What I actually make, I don't currently have any idea. But it does seem like the character creation is going to be very fun.
Sir Longears, +2 to four scores, seems fair, Ill try it and see what pops out.