Alright I’ve been playing in a home brew game for a few months or so. We have four players and we have flirted with the idea of getting another player in the group if we found someone who was interested. As far as I’m concerned, we’ve got all our bases covered in terms of abilities and are well balanced. So really I think a new player can do whatever they want at this point and the party would still be well set. However as a thought experiment I’d like to hear what you guys think the best fifth party member for this group could be in terms of build. I for one have put some thought into this and I’m not quite sure. I’ll give general descriptions of the four characters seeing as I don’t have all their sheets. Oh and we are all level 12 and know the game fairly well, but we aren’t optimized to the max. Though we build to do what we can efficiently. I applologize in advance for the wall of text.
Character 1: Human Ranger with archery style and a wolf companion. His role is to shoot enemies till they are dead. We consistently fight lawful elves and evil outsiders, so 95% of the time he and his wolf are fighting their favored enemies. When fully buffed he does 6 attacks per round for 20+ to hit and 20+ damage per hit. His main weakness as of right now is his AC, it is in the low 20s. Since he is an archer this is mitigated somewhat as he is out of the action, but we do fight archer elves as well that do send arrows his way at times. Overall he is the DPS king of the group.
Character 2: Human Investigator with a high focus on potion making via his feat and utilizing alchemical items. He is perhaps the most clever player in the group, as such he has molded himself a few roles.This player is extremely good at finding niche cheap items in the books and making them work well. Like using fireworks as a weapon while staying invisible because the dm ruled it as not an attack. So he’s got a good solution to weird problems by using items. He buffs the party a bit with haste as well as keeping emergency potions when we need them. He is an excellent splash damage dealer, similar to an alchemist and in addition deals a lot of damage when hit via the acid blood spell. Likewise he has the feat that directs splash damage blasts away from allies. Lastly as an investigator he is the skill monkey of the group and is a good source for information on the world. Very useful character overall, I call him the Batman of the group.
Character 3: Pixie Oracle that exclusively buffs and heals the others. Before a fight, this character buffs the others up and casts the spell that lets her heal from a distance. Then she stays out of the fight and keeps the rest of them going. In addition she also prepares spell steal and prevents enemies from casting spells when successful. She’s got the whimsy mystery, so she specializes in disguising herself exceptionally well despite the size difference. Using this in addition to having a butt ton of stealth when at normal tiny size, she is excellent at infiltrating fortresses and gathering intel. As well as eavesdropping and sabotage. She has also picked up unconscious characters (via enlarge person and ant haul) and put them in a safer place. As with the Ranger, this character has a low AC of 19 so that’s something that needs work. The doctor of the group.
Character 4: My character is an Elf Mystic Theurge Sorcerer Oracle. Elves work differently in this game so I got a buff to my Cha and a hit to my Str at the start which was fine. He has the starsoul bloodline and the lunar mystery. He has the inflict wounds spells and has the touch of the moon ability which has the chance to confuse enemies when hit with inflict spells assuming they fail a save. This ability is a bit gimped by his lower Oracle level, but it has worked a few times. He has a few nice buffs he gives to the party before a fight and has the animate dead spell. So when a fight breaks out he dumps out four undead from his bag of holding as meat shields. He’s got some debuffing spells like Stinking Cloud and Black Tentacles that he starts out with and afterwards goes to damaging spells like fireball and the inflict spells. The dm rules that I can use spring attack after doing touch spells which is nice. Having prophetic armor I add my 7 cha mod to AC and Ref saves, plus I cast windy Escape to negate most attacks. So his survivability is very high. Overall he is a buffer/debuffer/blaster that dabbles in necromancy and divination.
So I’d say it’s a very effective party, our big weaknesses being the lack of AC on two characters. I think for the campaign it would be fun and thematically appropriate to have an assassin added in. Maybe via the magus class, that would be a good combo. And also a straight up wizard or sorcerer coudl work but might be a bit redundant. What are the thoughts of you guys?
On one hand you've got grand theft auto, on the other hand you've got Darth Vader. All in all these are two concepts off the top of my head of things that deal with evil or malicious intent yet people love them. Sometimes you just want to cut loose and just go nuts in a session or two. Why not? Also I know of some friends of mine that always do the evil dialogue options in video games for the lulz. For some people it's just another way of having fun.
I think being honest is the best approach. One game I'm playing in has been going on for three or so years and the dm is getting bored of it. Though the players all still love it including me. He told us he's going to stop after finishing off the story in a reasonable manner and by then we will have another game lined up. I would recommend you do the same thing. Tell them all you want to stop, but tell them you're going to stop after resolving the story in a reasonable way. It helps if you can tell them how many sessions you think it will take to finish the story/campaign. Then try to get someone else to dm a new campaign afterwards or maybe you can start a fresh one if no one else wants to dm.
Personally I know from experience that if the dm is not having fun for multiple sessions then the quality of the dming will go down quick. Well at least that's how it was for me.
Best way to do it I'd say is to take three levels in Phalanx Soldier, a fighter archetype. The ability at 3rd level allows them to use a polearm in one hand while wielding a shield. But this version gives you the benefit of having no acp applied to the attack rolls. I would take the rest of the levels as Tower Shield Fighter or still continue in this archetype if desired.
So here's a thing that happened in my previous session. Our android ninja snuck up behind a necromancer and missed him with a nat 1. The necromancer's turn comes up, he casts invisibility and the ninja takes an aoo to hit him and misses. I then rule at that point that the necromancer could then move past the ninja because the ninja used his aoo to attack the necromancer instead of keeping him in the same square. My players disagreed, so at the time I compromised by having the wizard go around him through difficult terrain. Keep in mind on the other side of the necromancer was a wall of fire and the other pcs, so he wouldn't want to go backwards, but instead past the ninja.
So for future reference, if a character does an aoo on someone can they still prevent enemies from moving directly through their square in the same round?
I think the main advantage of the crossbows come in the long run when you have a crapton of feats. They have a higher crit range, so making them keen and grabbing a crit feat or two could really help you out. Also you can two weapon fight with them, as long as you have the wrist straps so that you can reload them both and still have a "free" hand. And I believe if you take improved and greater two weapon fighting as well as rapid fire, you have one more extra shot than the bow build. As far as I know, going twf and rapid shot nets you the most attacks in a round. So it could help people like Paladins with Smite damage and Rangers with Favored enemy.
So yeah, I think you can make crossbows kind of good in a different way from bows. You've just got to take a billion feats (including rapid reload) to make it work. The main advantages again are the higher crit range and the potential for an extra attack over bows.
I did this a month or so ago. Ultimately, most of the players wanted a basic idea of the setting before going along with making their characters. I'd say, tell them what you have in mind for the basic setting. Like the state of technology in the campaign, the kind of religion(s) in the world, the style of governments and countries, amount of magic etc etc.
Once I gave my players this info they were able to move forth and make characters. And from then on we refined the game world from a concept to something more concrete. And then in my spare time I crafted the story. This works well if you all meet up for a session to just make characters and do the world building.
Two I'm thinking of. One, the dual wielder with a one handed weapon and a one handed ranged weapon in the off hand. Such as a longsword and a crossbow combination. This style would be pretty fun but you'd have to invest into so many feats to keep up at all damage wise with other martial styles. I suppose one way you can do it is get slashing grace, then focus exclusively on ranged feats like rapid shot and stuff.
Another style is the character who uses many different kinds of weapons. I suppose this is the same thing as the one above. I suppose what I'm trying to say is I'm not a huge fan that Pathfinder really pushes you to specialize in one weapon for martials. I've always thought it was fun in movies when the hero fell back on using alternative weapons than his go to weapon in an action scene depending on the situation. Like Arnold in Commando when he hides in the tool house and takes out dudes with an axe and buzz saws as opposed to his guns he was using for most of the fight. If this was the Pathfinder system that change in tactics probably wouldn't work well for him.
Probably best asked in the Homebrew Forum; this is the Rules Questions Forum. I went ahead and flagged your post for you =).
Thanks, will a mod move it or will I have to repost?
Good point on the Magus, I will consider buffing his bab as well as perhaps others. But I do think that he and the bard get a lot of other cool things anyways. They may not need the boost imo. I'll see what the players want too.
Didn't know about the lack of immunity to crits for undead. Still, I feel like a sneak attack on like an ooze should do more damage. You can say, cleave more into an ooze if he's sitting still than moving about.
Alright so I'm going to start gming a game in January. The idea for this campaign is that I've got nothing planned yet. But we're all gonna meet (probably six players) up and do a world building session. My plan is to hear out the concepts they have for each of their characters and their back stories. Then we will all collaboratively make a game world based around these six created pcs. After this world building session I will take the reigns and start gming in this game world. Has anyone ever done this? What opinions do people have for this? I'm looking forward to it, should be a fun time. Oh and also, I think I'm gonna bring a big piece of graph paper to help us draw the world map.
And now for the rules. I've got some house rules I want to put into this game also and I'd like to hear some thoughts on them. A couple of them are based on my experience with 5th edition and making it more fluid like that game.
1. Elimination of Full Attacks: When you can do more than one attack in a round, you may move as much as you want before using all of your attacks. In addition, you can attack as many times as you want while moving till you run out of attacks. For example, if your level 14 fighter wants to kill three goblins that are all pretty spread out. You can run 10ft, attack the first one, run 10ft, attack the second one and then run 10ft and attack the last one. When it comes to spring attack, everyone is considered to have this feat when it comes to prerequisites for other feats. But they don't have mobility and dodge, those feats will have to be taken if those benefits are desired.
Reasoning: It's always bugged me that Martials always had to stand still when fighting. And it punishes characters that rely on multiple attacks like dual wielders and monks. Monks especially will benefit from this because their high movement will be combined with their multiple attacks. Also, it's a common thing to see in movies where the hero will charge against the antagonist, taking out mooks in his way. And it's lame that the only way I can think of in which you can do this in pathfinder is via the Greater Bladed Dash spell. <_< On a final note, it will make getting feats like Whirlwind Attack a little easier to get because of the free spring attack prereq.
2. On Power attack and Combat expertise: All characters who have the required strength and intelligence can use these feats. They are also treated as having the feat(s) for prerequisite purposes for other feats.
Reasoning: I've seen this rule proposed a lot on the forums and I generally agree with it. Also I like that it makes getting certain feats a lot faster.
3. Higher Base Attack Bonus for all: All classes with 1/2 bab now have 3/4 bab. In addition, the Rogue, Monk and Ninja classes will have something akin to a 7/8 bab. These three specific classes will be treated as having a full bab progression with the exception of not getting a point in bab at levels 6 and 11. So in the end these three classes will have an 18/13/8 bab at level 20. The Monk will have something similar for his flurry mechanic.
Reasoning: It's always bothered me that Wizards and Sorcerors couldn't really hit much of anything if they tried. And so I'm putting this rule in in case anyone wants to play a Gandalf type of character if they wanted to without much multiclassing. Also I don't think it buffs wizards and sorcerers that much anyways. Their main power comes from spells, this is just being put out there as another reliable option for the player. I'm thinking that increasing the Rogue, Ninja and Monk Bab will give them a nice buff to make them better overall as classes. But not make you turn away from the pure martials.
4: Critical hits and sneak attack work on everything: Nothing is immune to critical hits or sneak attacks.
Reasoning: This is a rule I've always used because I've never liked immunity to critical hits in the first place. It takes a lot of fun out of rolling that sweet 20. Plus, I think it's reasonable for a Rogue to say, sever a zombie's head with his back turned or something like that for other creatures. Although for sneak attack, I'm thinking of making this only work on immune creatures if they're using a weapon that bypasses damage reduction. Not sure if a rapier should ever do sneak attack to a skeleton for example.
5: Crossbows are more powerful: Heavy crossbows do 2d8 damage, light crossbows do 2d6 damage and hand crossbows do 1d8 damage. These rules apply to all other non core crossbows and repeating crossbows. In addition, hand crossbows can be attatched to the wrist ala assassin's creed style.
Reasoning: Crossbows suck compared to other forms of ranged attack. And it's lame because they're pretty brutal in real life. This rule is meant to make them more competitive with other ranged options. And also a couple of my players are big crossbow fans in these games.
For now that's it for rules, but I think I'll think of more. Also I'm banning summoners and arcanists and unchained classes. What do you guys think?
How I like to do it is 4d6, drop the lowest. If someone is unlucky, have them reroll a new spread of stats until they get an array they like. If they're still unsatisfied, you can have them reroll ones and twos, and/or volunteer someone else to roll for them if it makes them feel better. If all else fails, you can give them a point buy of 5-10 to give their under 10 ability scores a bit of a boost. Granted this will probably result in op characters, but I think it's much better to have op characters than weak ones. Especially if you're running a home brew game. Because then you can make the encounter as hard as you want.
I remember I played a phalanx soldier hellknight once. It was super fun. Mainly I took two levels of ranger to get the two weapon fighting bonus feat without the 15 dex prerequisite. Then I took three levels of fighter in the phalanx soldier archetype. This allowed me to dual wield a pole arm and a shield. I then took the feat improved shield bash and combat reflexes and shield slam. Then I'd bull rush a guy with my shield after hitting him, which would provoke an attack with my spear. Then I'd finish him off with the rest of my spear attacks. It's a pretty fun build for taking on hordes of enemies I'd say.
I did this once. One time I played a Hellknight and our chaotic bard was falling into some death water off the boat we were on. I asked the gm if I can hit him as an attack of opportunity for him losing his balance and falling off the boat. He said yes. I proceeded to smite him with the blunt sides of my spear like a baseball bat and he fell back onto the boat unharmed from the death water, but bruised. Was one of my favorite moments of the game.
I always interpreted high wisdom means that you are not a fool. So if someone had a high inteligence and a low wisdom, like 5 or 7 then they could be prone to drinking themselves to a stupor. Or fooling around with too much women and getting bastard children they can't deal with. Or pick pocketing, ect ect.
There was one time where a couple characters got into a duel. They were 20 or so feet away. Instead of charging at each other, they began to approach with 5ft steps because they wanted to get a full attack on each other instead of one charge attack. This I think is an intentional design by the rules. This slow approach of two swordsmen is seen all the time in movies. They slowly circle towards each other taunting, and when they finally get close enough they go at it.
I think that certain weapons allow for twf and the rapid shot style feats. Mainly throwing weapons and crossbows, although with crossbows you need to reload them fast enough. With twf and gtwf and rapid shot, I believe that you can do one more attack than a straight archery build with manyshot. Ideally this build would work best with a melee weapon that can also be thrown, daggers specifically would be great for this.
Maybe not the greatest thing I've done as a player, but definitely my favorite.
It was one of the guys' turn in the initiative order and he didn't know what to do immediately. So he goes "uhhh" for about two seconds. And I realize that his "uhhh" kind of sounded like a note in a song. So I then sung "uhhh" in a different note and held the note. Another guy realized what I was doing and sung "uhhh" in another unique note. Pretty soon the others joined in and we were all holding out "uhhhs" in some sort of karaoke apacella string. One guy remained silent though, and when we were a second or two into the uhhhs he went all like "No stop! I can't take it!" And he left the room laughing. Right as he left we all burst into laughter ourselves. Ah man good times!
After my first character ever, a fighter 12 barbarian 8, I began to play spellswords. An arcane archer, a magus, a cleric and others. These classes are my favorite. The classes that can kill with a sword and do some cool magic stuff also.
Overall I think my favorite class is Cleric. They have a 2/3 bab, level 9 spells, know all the spells in the divine list and they aren't all that complicated to run effectively. Unlike the Druid, whom I would love to play someday but my ideas for an ideal build is a bit complex.
If I had to choose one over the other, I say casters. Because while I would not have much fun playing a basic wizard/Sorceror or fighter/barbarian anymore, I would choose a wizard/Sorceror between those two given the choice.
My idea of it being cursed was that it's a bag of holding that can't actually hold anything you put in it. Plus you can't choose what weapon you get from it, you might end up with a bad weapon and you'll be like "oh come on!" I guess it would be better if I made it a construct I guess.
I guess having more limited ammo works. Maybe something like ten shots works. But for thrown weapons my idea was for them to quickly throw the weapon and then grab another random one for kicks. I thought rapid reload would be nice because some weapons suck without it. But I guess sometimes you'll get a crap weapon anyways. So I suppose that can be dropped too.
Armory Dog sounds awesome, I'll take it. Thanks for the help guys!
Alright so I'm adding a new magic item to a very relaxed style campaign. It's a pick up game where we all take turns dming one shots. Mainly we play this one when someone can't make it to the regular real game. Anyways, here is the description of the item in question:
Item name: Dog of Holding
Description: The Dog of Holding has the same shape and size of a small bag of holding. Although, it runs around on four points, and barks like a dog. It will pant in excitement with its opening as if it were its mouth. It also has a small tongue that droops out of its opening when panting.
The Dog of Holding is very friendly and will run to the nearest high HD character class he sees in adoration. For example, if he sees a wizard and a fighter next to each other, he would run to the fighter and make friends with him as a dog would. If he sees a barbarian and a fighter he would run to the barbarian. If there is a tie on who rolls the highest hit dice, the dm decides whom the dog would run to. Once it has found a companion, the dog will follow him or her wherever they go unless the companion is overly rude or cruel.
Rules of use: The Dog of Holding is a cursed magic item that will vommit up anything that the players put into it. He cannot store any items. However, the Dog of Holding holds an infinite number of weapons already inside him.
A character may pull out a weapon from the Dog as a swift action. Before drawing, the character may choose whether this weapon is a ranged or melee weapon. However other than this, the weapon selected is random. The character is always considered to be proficient in this weapon even if he or she doesn't have the required feat or class to use it. In addition, the weapon is always of masterwork quality. In the case of drawing a weapon that needs reloading, such as a crossbow or a gun, the character is considered to have the rapid reload feat only with this weapon. Lastly, for weapons that use ammunition, you are considered to have unlimited normal ammo. Though this isn't the case for thrown weapons such as a javelin.
If the weapon is drawn and the character does not use it to attack something, it will disappear into non existence after one round passes. However if in a fight, the character will be able to wield it until combat is over as per the gm ruling. When the dm confirms that the combat ends, the weapon disappears into non existence after one round.
You may only have one weapon taken from the Dog at a time per character. For anyone but the companion of the Dog, drawing a weapon from it is a move action instead of a swift action. (Anyone who is not an ally of the companion must roll a dc 20 cmb or 20 sleight of hand check to steal a weapon from the Dog. The Dog cannot fight back in any way during this, or otherwise attack at any time.) If you lose your weapon via a disarm, sunder, or throwing it somewhere or otherwise, you may draw a new one from the Dog after one more round has passed and the lost weapon disappears.
Determining the random weapon drawn: First, the character declares whether he wants a ranged or melee weapon. If a melee weapon is chosen, roll a d2. If 1 is rolled, the weapon will be from the main weapons list. If a two is rolled, the weapon will be selected from the eastern weapons list. Next, roll a d3. If a 1 is rolled, the it will be a Simple weapon, if it's a 2, a Martial weapon and An Exotic weapon if a 3 is rolled. Lastly, roll percentiles and approximate where on the list that percentage is and select that one. For example, if a 25 is rolled you approximate what weapons are 25% or 1/4th down the list and you select one of those for the character to wield.
So, if a 1 is rolled on the d2 and a 1 on the d3, then a 25 on the percentiles, a good choice for the dm is to give the player a Cestus, Brass Knuckles or Dagger because at a first glance they are about 1/4th down the simple weapons list. (At least to me.) For using ranged weapons, the rules are mainly the same however you roll a d2 first to determine whether it is a medieval weapon or a gun of some sort. If it is a gun, a d3 does not have to be rolled.
End of rules description.
Alright so that's the item. Any advice on how to reword this or change the rules? Cause I will submit it soon to a document for them to see today. And if you guys in the group are reading this, hi!
The way I see it is that arcane spells are done via study and knowledge of how magic works. It's like a science that the wizard is actively participating in. The divine spells are more like miracles that aren't actually done by the cleric alone. The god they worship grants them these powers instead. So in the divine case, the gods are the ones doing the magic, so I think the only somatic component may be just a "father son Holy Ghost" hand gesture and a prayer thing. Whereas the wizard may be doing much more somatic activities for his spells.
I would price it similar to how magic weapon and armor increments are priced. It's gotta be exponential. I'd say the weapon enhancement progression would be a good model to hold up to. Maybe even increase the price a little because you can't lose your feats in any way. Whearas there is a chance to be disarmed or your weapon destroyed, therefore upgrading a weapon should be cheaper.
That would be a pretty sweet random encounter!
Nocte ex Mortis wrote:
You're not wrong, but the thing is I don't think it matters. For reasons I said before. Note that I think that the devs should try to balance things, but I think it's too late for that because they already succomed to power creep when the second wave of classes and archetypes themselves started coming in.
It's a lost cause at this point anyways, nothing short of a new edition couldn't fix imo. D and d has always been like this anyways in all editions, some classes are just better. And in my mind that's ok. Most of the time my favorite characters in fiction and pcs are unomptimized or even sucky. Because they role played and did things in such cool and memorable ways. That's much more important to me than the numbers and abilities that a guy can do. It's what you do with what you've got that counts.
And I think I'll leave you guys with that. Sorry if I came off as rude. This is just how I see it.
Sure but it's a fair story comparison imo. Not necessarily a rules one sure.
Nocte ex Mortis wrote:
Here's the deal: Nobody likes being the benchwarmer on the team. Nobody. It's not a matter of being able to stand toe-to-toe with Bob the Summoner, it's that Bob can completely replace you without any serious amount of effort on his part, and THEN still do his job as well, without missing a beat.
Yeah but no ones a bench warmer in this game. Everybody plays a part, like in a no cut team like cross country. It's not like in football where there are backups who may never play at all.
I just never thought it was a big deal ever. It's why I never like these threads. Everybody's on the same team and everyone playing should be mature about this. Who cares if the rogue can't stand toe to toe with the super summoner and his rampaging eidolon? You're on the same team for one, and there's no saying a rogue cannot be awesome despite his unequal power level. This kind of thing happens all the time in stories. It's literally the point of the ring of power being found by supposedly weakling hobbits. They overcome such insane trials as halfling rogues against insane foes way stronger than them.
And lol on Gandalf being on the same level as the fellowship. He's way tougher.
There are various reasons that can be made. People in Lord of the Rings looked up to Gandalf for being the greatest dude ever (at least lore wise) and were cool with chilling with him. People chill with Superman in the justice league all the time and Batman is generally considered the coolest one by most fans regardless of power disparity. And not once does Gandalf or Superman look down on the others for being inferior in terms of abilities. He sees them for what they can do as extremely valuable allies in their respective parties.
This is a roleplaying game. Story comes first, the stats and abilities are just that, numbers. If you can't think of a reason as to why a wizard would want to chill with a rogue then the narrative element in the game isn't nearly flexible enough.