Magic Armor and Mage Armor


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

I have a question: If I am wearing a +1 suit of armor and I drink a potion of Mage Armor, would I still benefit from the +1 since it is an Enhancement Bonus, and not an Armor Bonus, or would it just be an Enhancement Bonus to the Armor Bonus? I am actually a little confused here.

Similarly, if I were to wear Adamantine Armor and cast Mage Armor, would I still get the Damage Reduction?


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The +1 is an enhancement to the armor bonus, so indeed it would not stack.

Liberty's Edge

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What about the Adamantine Armor? If I were to cast Mage Armor, would I still get the Damage Reduction from the Adamantine, or would that go away?


Interesting, I too have a question now. Does a magic armor's bonus stack with the spell Shield?


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Domestichauscat wrote:
Interesting, I too have a question now. Does a magic armor's bonus stack with the spell Shield?

Yes. One is an Armor bonus and the other is a Shield bonus.

Liberty's Edge

I just did a test in Hero Lab; if I were to wear an Adamantine Haramaki and cast Mage Armor, I would still have my DR 1/-

At least according to Hero Lab. I don't know how it would work in PFS.


Adamantine should work regardless.

If using mage armor, you would benefit from either the spell, or the magic armor, whichever is higher. The enhancement bonus on your armor doesn't apply to the mage armor spell because it's not enhancing the spell.

Mage armor is still useful if you encounter ghosts, since it works against incorporeal creatures, unlike regular armor (barring ghost touch).


Anything that is not the armor bonus stacks, including special ability like fortification, elemental resistances ecc.
The armor bonus gets "overridden" if and only if is lower than 4.


Dekalinder wrote:

Anything that is not the armor bonus stacks, including special ability like fortification, elemental resistances ecc.

The armor bonus gets "overridden" if and only if is lower than 4.

Nope.

If the armour's total armour bonus is less than the bonus from Mage Armour, then any other magical effects from that armour are also turned off.

Liberty's Edge

Some PFS GMs can't seem to agree on the finer points... "Yes/No, you can('t) light somebody cloths with Spark", "Yes/No, you can('t) convert Magic Missile using Bloodline Arcana", "Mage Armor stacks with everything", "Mage Armor makes your +5 Adamantine Full Plate useless", "Rerolls from merchandise [don't] stack", "No, you cannot use Create Water to use the Cloak of the Manta Ray on land", etc.

Somebody needs to make a field-guide just for PFS GMs regarding all of these things.


Seth Dresari wrote:

Some PFS GMs can't seem to agree on the finer points... "Yes/No, you can('t) light somebody cloths with Spark", "Yes/No, you can('t) convert Magic Missile using Bloodline Arcana", "Mage Armor stacks with everything", "Mage Armor makes your +5 Adamantine Full Plate useless", "Rerolls from merchandise [don't] stack", "No, you cannot use Create Water to use the Cloak of the Manta Ray on land", etc.

Somebody needs to make a field-guide just for PFS GMs regarding all of these things.

Some of those questions can be easily answered by just looking at the source material. For example,

Cloak of the manta ray:

"This cloak appears to be made of leather until the wearer enters salt water."

Create Water:

"This spell generates wholesome, drinkable water, just like clean rain water"

Clear as day that this combo doesn't work. Doesn't need any additional resources or questions or errata.


Gilarius wrote:

Nope.

If the armour's total armour bonus is less than the bonus from Mage Armour, then any other magical effects from that armour are also turned off.

That is only the case when you wear two suits of magic armor at once. Mage Armor is a force effect that grants an armor bonus, but by itself doesn't count as an armor.

Thus most likely there's need of a clarification.


There are no potions for spells that only affect "personal", so no potions of mage armor. That doesn't affect the rest of the Diskussion, just the OP mentioned it.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html

Says

Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.


Mage Armor isn't personal. Shield is personal.


Gilarius wrote:
Dekalinder wrote:

Anything that is not the armor bonus stacks, including special ability like fortification, elemental resistances ecc.

The armor bonus gets "overridden" if and only if is lower than 4.

Nope.

If the armour's total armour bonus is less than the bonus from Mage Armour, then any other magical effects from that armour are also turned off.

Yes they work. Armors and Mage Armor spell do not have a non-stacking clause. Only the bonus does not stack because of the general "same type bonus" rule.

Is NOT the same case as Haste and Blessing of Fervor

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Seth Dresari wrote:
Some PFS GMs can't seem to agree on the finer points...

"Yes/No, you can('t) light somebody cloths with Spark" - Spark only works on unattended objects. So if the clothes were on the floor it'd work. Being worn or in their pack, nope.

"Yes/No, you can('t) convert Magic Missile using Bloodline Arcana" - Different bloodline arcana have different rules. You'd need to specify which one you are referring to. I've usually seen magic missile specifically in reference to arcana effects which apply when the target fails a save or takes damage. Magic missile does not allow a save and thus the target cannot fail one for that spell. Magic missile can do damage and thus any damage based arcana effect would apply.
"Mage Armor stacks with everything" - No. The armor bonus from mage armor does not stack with any other armor bonus. If both are applicable to an attack (e.g. mundane armor is ignored by incorporeal, but not mage armor) then you use the higher of the two.
"Mage Armor makes your +5 Adamantine Full Plate useless" - No. If you were wearing two types of magic armor then the magic effects of one of them would be shut down due to the item slot rules. Mage armor does not occupy an item slot and thus does not shut down the magical armor. Since the armor bonus from the full plate is higher than the max for Mage armor it would apply in most circumstances, but only the mage armor bonus would apply against incorporeal attacks.
"Rerolls from merchandise [don't] stack" - "No player may receive more than one free reroll per session."
"No, you cannot use Create Water to use the Cloak of the Manta Ray on land" - Correct, you can't do that. Wrong kind of water and doesn't create enough for the wearer to "enter" the water.

Seth Dresari wrote:
Somebody needs to make a field-guide just for PFS GMs regarding all of these things.

Happy to help. :]


Matthew Downie wrote:
Mage Armor isn't personal. Shield is personal.

Sorry, my bad.


Gilarius wrote:
Dekalinder wrote:

Anything that is not the armor bonus stacks, including special ability like fortification, elemental resistances ecc.

The armor bonus gets "overridden" if and only if is lower than 4.

Nope.

If the armour's total armour bonus is less than the bonus from Mage Armour, then any other magical effects from that armour are also turned off.

Exactly, the DR from Adamantine isn't magical. So it stacks with other magic armors.

You can even wear two armors: Magical steel+ adamantine. While Armor bonus of Adamantine won't stack: the DR will.

Liberty's Edge

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If I am wearing +1 leather armor of spell resistance (armor bonus +3) and I drink a potion of Mage Armor, my armor bonus changes from +3 to +4, and I still have spell resistance.

If I am wearing a +1 chain shirt of spell resistance (armor bonus +5) and I drink a potion of Mage Armor, neither my armor bonus nor my spell resistance changes, but I now have a +4 armor bonus against incorporeal creatures.


Bracers of Armor are the usual 2nd armor worn, and it uses an item slot, albeit one other than the one used by regular armor.

It can even be enchanted, but it does have the shut-down clause. However, that clause is NOT invoked (by RAW) if the bonus is equal.

/cevah

Dark Archive

Cevah wrote:

Bracers of Armor are the usual 2nd armor worn, and it uses an item slot, albeit one other than the one used by regular armor.

It can even be enchanted, but it does have the shut-down clause. However, that clause is NOT invoked (by RAW) if the bonus is equal.

/cevah

Except bracers of armor are enchanted. They're made by mages who use the mage armor spell to craft a wondrous item (the bracers). They're also kinda pointless for anyone able to actually wear armor. And until you can get bracers of armor +5 it's probably better to just buy mage armor potions. Actually still probably better unless you have nothing else to spend your gold on. Or (for non-pfs) know a friendly mage or sorcerer who can craft them.

Grand Lodge

Daniel Myhre wrote:
Cevah wrote:

Bracers of Armor are the usual 2nd armor worn, and it uses an item slot, albeit one other than the one used by regular armor.

It can even be enchanted, but it does have the shut-down clause. However, that clause is NOT invoked (by RAW) if the bonus is equal.

/cevah

Except bracers of armor are enchanted. They're made by mages who use the mage armor spell to craft a wondrous item (the bracers). They're also kinda pointless for anyone able to actually wear armor. And until you can get bracers of armor +5 it's probably better to just buy mage armor potions. Actually still probably better unless you have nothing else to spend your gold on. Or (for non-pfs) know a friendly mage or sorcerer who can craft them.

Actually, in PFS standard, a haramaki or such with +1 enhancement and +9 worth of other enhancements, and Mage Armor is probably the "best" way to go.

Of course, that'll break the +10 limit rule....


Gilarius wrote:
Dekalinder wrote:

Anything that is not the armor bonus stacks, including special ability like fortification, elemental resistances ecc.

The armor bonus gets "overridden" if and only if is lower than 4.

Nope.

If the armour's total armour bonus is less than the bonus from Mage Armour, then any other magical effects from that armour are also turned off.

Nope. There is special language for Bracers of Armor that does that, but that is a specific, not general, rule.


Theconiel wrote:
If I am wearing +1 leather armor of spell resistance (armor bonus +3) and I drink a potion of Mage Armor, my armor bonus changes from +3 to +4, and I still have spell resistance.

No you loose the spell resistance.

Theconiel wrote:


If I am wearing a +1 chain shirt of spell resistance (armor bonus +5) and I drink a potion of Mage Armor, neither my armor bonus nor my spell resistance changes, but I now have a +4 armor bonus against incorporeal creatures.

Debateable, that is how we play but I suspect by RAW you would not get the +4 armor against incorporeal creature.

Sovereign Court

kinevon wrote:


Actually, in PFS standard, a haramaki or such with +1 enhancement and +9 worth of other enhancements, and Mage Armor is probably the "best" way to go.

Of course, that'll break the +10 limit rule....

It gets you the most total +. But AC is by far the best +, and you'd be way behind on AC. You'd really be better off with +8 bracers to get 4 more AC for a wizard. +5 m. b-plate for light armor martial.


thorin001 wrote:
Gilarius wrote:
Dekalinder wrote:

Anything that is not the armor bonus stacks, including special ability like fortification, elemental resistances ecc.

The armor bonus gets "overridden" if and only if is lower than 4.

Nope.

If the armour's total armour bonus is less than the bonus from Mage Armour, then any other magical effects from that armour are also turned off.
Nope. There is special language for Bracers of Armor that does that, but that is a specific, not general, rule.

It appears that I conflated the Bracers of Armour clause with the Mage Armour spell. My apologies to both people who pointed it out and particularly to Dekalinder for not checking it first.

Sorry.


Happens.


Gilarius wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
Gilarius wrote:
Dekalinder wrote:

Anything that is not the armor bonus stacks, including special ability like fortification, elemental resistances ecc.

The armor bonus gets "overridden" if and only if is lower than 4.

Nope.

If the armour's total armour bonus is less than the bonus from Mage Armour, then any other magical effects from that armour are also turned off.
Nope. There is special language for Bracers of Armor that does that, but that is a specific, not general, rule.

It appears that I conflated the Bracers of Armour clause with the Mage Armour spell. My apologies to both people who pointed it out and particularly to Dekalinder for not checking it first.

Sorry.

No worries, we all do it once in a while.

Dark Archive

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
kinevon wrote:


Actually, in PFS standard, a haramaki or such with +1 enhancement and +9 worth of other enhancements, and Mage Armor is probably the "best" way to go.

Of course, that'll break the +10 limit rule....

It gets you the most total +. But AC is by far the best +, and you'd be way behind on AC. You'd really be better off with +8 bracers to get 4 more AC for a wizard. +5 m. b-plate for light armor martial.

I believe bracers of armor can also be crafted with armor special effects. Course, that probably takes away from the possible AC bonus, and you'd need the Craft Arms & Armor feat as well. But it's there as an option.

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