This thread is more than eight months old. This stuff all got cleared up ages ago.
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
The issue they are having problems with is that, while the first paragraph on observation gives an example of stealth for hiding, the second paragraph simply states that you cannot attempt a Stealth check while being observed.
It doesn't say you can't attempt a Stealth check to hide; it states you can't make a Stealth check at all.
I don't believe that these rules are supposed to interact with Trick Attack; but the wording is unfortunate nonetheless.
You haven't really come across as argumentative to me; more as someone who sees a potential issue with the system, and who refuses to hand wave the possible interactions away just because that is the likely intent.
You want a concrete answer one way or another; and lacking one you interpret the rules in a literal, if harsh, fashion. I don't think you'll find many people around who would take your interpretation as the correct one; but that doesn't mean that your reasoning is without merit.
Attempting to understand what a rule actually says and means can be just as important as understanding what the people writing it were trying to convey.
On the one hand, I feel that the intent of the wording of the Trick Attack ability is pretty clear about it being a separate and stand alone skill check; but on the other hand, there are possibly several parts of the Rulebook interacting here, and each part is just vague enough that it isn't unreasonable to want a little clarification from the Developers. Even a single line in this thread would probably be enough to set minds at ease; and it would give us somewhere to point to if and/or when confusion about this crops up in the future.
It's worth a FAQ if it prevents worries or arguments about it later.
Glad to be of help!
1. Making a Stealth Check to Hide is not equivalent to making a Stealth Check for some other purpose (such as attempting a Trick Attack).
2. The Ysoki's Scrounger racial ability applies to ALL Stealth checks, not just to ones made to Hide.
3. The rules for Observing appear to be infuriatingly vague on this subject; but the first paragraph refers to direct observation occurring when "a creature is visible, when the situation makes it impossible for the creature (to) use stealth to hide, or when you have succeeded at a Perception check to pinpoint the creature using a precise sense such as blindsight." The way in which this and the Stealth skill are written lead me to believe that these rules were created before the Operative's Trick Attack had been implemented, as it is not referenced anywhere else in the Core Rulebook.
I fully believe that I am interpreting the rules correctly in this instance; but I will concede that more explicit wording should have been used to clarify when and how Trick Attack interacts with Skills.
On the other hand, the Bone Trooper is wearing armor, and all armors have Environmental Protections built in; so if the trooper gets kicked out an airlock, they can just turn on the suit and ignore the problem for a number of days equal to the armor's level.
Doesn't answer the question, I know, but at least it's a workaround for now...
That last part is easy enough.
Make a thread in Rules Questions entitled:
And then in the main body of the thread, type something not unlike:
As for questioning things like the "attempt a Stealth check" problem; if you look up the rules for the Stealth skill, I think you will find that there is no general "you must be unobserved in order to make a stealth check" rule. You need cover or concealment in order to make a stealth check to hide, but you aren't attempting to hide when making a Trick Attack; you're trying to attack an opponent in such a way as to make them unable to adequately defend themselves.
Take Acrobatics as another example. If I use Acrobatics to make a Trick Attack, am I trying to Balance, Escape, Fly, Hover, or Tumble? The answer is: None of the above; I'm attempting a Trick Attack, so none of the rules for Acrobatics that apply to it's other uses will apply here.
I don't believe a FAQ is necessary in this case, as the very next sentence after the line about determining hardness, Hit Points, and saving throws directs you to the section on Breaking Objects to learn more about the values being affected.
Katina Davis wrote:
No worries! I figure as long as it gets sorted out eventually, I don't mind a short wait.
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
I almost commented on that; but then I thought that perhaps such an observation might not be welcome, what with it being more or less a separate rule system.
This is a set of Starfinder Pawn bases that was split off from the original order because the release date had been pushed back.
I was hoping to get an update on this order because I had noticed that the product is listed as available in the store, but my package hasn't been shipped yet; and the last time this happened it turned out my items had gotten lost in the system.. twice...
I recently purchased a number of products from AbadarCorp's new "Lawfinder" gaming line; but while the digital masters are all of fine quality, I have found that every time I attempt to obtain a hard copy of the core rules, the binding spells fail and then I have to deal with a bunch of freshly released rules lawyers, not to mention all of the paperwork!
This is why I say you guys should never have sub-contracted out your summoning subscriptions to AsmodeusCorp; those people never deliver exactly what you ask for.
Pedantic argument is pedantic.
I point the ships forwards weapons toward the general direction of an enemy and direct the ship to fire. Do I care if I'm aiming at a particular entity or not? No. Everything in that general direction is about to have a bad day, whether I'm specifically aiming at it or not.
This is silly.
Solarian Weapon Crystals are classified and described in the equipment chapter in the section on weapons.
=> Solarian Weapon Crystals are weapons.
Weapon Fusions may be applied to any weapon of an appropriate level, unless the Fusion specifies otherwise.
=> Solarian Weapon Crystal + Weapon Fusion = Solarian Weapon Crystal with a Fusion.
It really is that simple.
It would appear that the shipping gods have allied against me, as the order that took nearly a month longer to get to me than it should have also contains a copy of the standard edition core book that suffers from the same binding defects that others have noticed.
I have already sent an email about this (with pictures), but I wanted to double down with a forum post as well.
Also, if possible, I would like to wait and get my replacement when the next printing cones around, just to be sure.
I will say, despite my order woes, I'm loving all of the different products, especially the core book and the first volume of Dead Suns!
Hello! I pre-ordered a number of Starfinder products back in January, and had them consolidated into a single order in March.
One of the products is being shipped when it releases in September, but from what I understand, the rest of the order should have shipped by yesterday at the latest, but it still says it is pending. When I opened the order up, it says it hasn't shipped because one or more of the items ordered is not in stock.
I was under the impression that pre-ordering would guarantee me copies? Any chance somebody could take a look and see what's up?
Thanks in advance.
I believe he is going off of the following:
Line of Effect wrote:
Spells are the only things mentioned in the rule, and so by RAW only spells (and spell-like abilities) are subject to it.
I personally find that to be an oversight on the part of the rules; the rules that apply to Spells should have been written in such a way as to be applicable to all magical effects.
Katina Davis wrote:
Hooray! Now I can take the money you saved me and dump it into a subscription to get the rest of the Dead Suns Adventure Path! Thanks!
suprise rounds are a thing and some one not making their check could mean the difference between winning or loseing the fight depending of the dificulty of the ambush
It is physically impossible to optimize Perception to the point that it will be actually useful against an ambush, since Stealth is much easier to boost, and most ambush encounters are against creatures with a high Stealth modifier.
If you can succeed at a Perception check against an ambush with any sort of consistency, you are playing something natively good at Perception, you dumped a bunch of resources into Perception (which guarantees you suck at something else), or it's just a regular encounter, not an ambush. I don't care how many feats, traits, and magic items you throw at the fighter, he'll NEVER be able to beat a rogue in a Stealth vs. Perception check; not even if the rogue's only putting skill points and a minor magic item into his Stealth.
Also, if you are having to deal with ambushes often, that speaks more towards your group's tactics and Stealth abilities than it does their Perception...
Erik Mona wrote:
Okay, I have to admit; this has changed my outlook on the Aroden Mystery situation. I had always viewed his death as a known variable, a fixed point in time and space, which radiated outwards to affect the rest of Golarion. My point of contention was with having been made aware that Aroden had definitively died, and that Paizo both a) knew how it happened, and b) were never going to reveal it.
Now I realize that the mystery of Aroden's death isn't about how he died; the mystery is about how Golarion is reacting to his death.
I retract my earlier statement of disinterest. In fact, now I think that the best ending for Pathfinder would be an AP about the return of prophesy; it could be kind of like Golarion finally getting over the loss of Aroden.
Thank you for this post, oh wise and benevolent dictator of my gaming budget!
Not only do Paladins NOT have to worship a Deity in Golarion, they straight-up usually don't.
Having all the members of a party maximize Perception is pretty terrible, if efficiency is what you're aiming for. You only need one or two members with a high Perception, since if one character makes the check, the whole party benefits; but if the whole party makes the check, there is no increase in utility, only in wasted resources that were dumped into an already covered skill.
As long as somebody in the group has a high Perception skill bonus, it doesn't matter if the dwarf cleric is good at it or not; and if it doesn't matter, why waste limited resources on it? The OP will be far more likely to get use out of skills they are naturally good at (without traits or feats being spent); and they will probably be happier with those skills thematically, as well.
A Parity of Aeons.
You have 11 HP thanks to your Favored Class Bonus (which btw means no other FCBs ever unless you want to be a commoner forever.)
I didn't see anyone else reply to this, so I thought it would be worth pointing out that your Favored Class needn't be your starting one.
Favored Class wrote:
Each character begins play with a single favored class of his choosing—typically, this is the same class as the one he chooses at 1st level. Whenever a character gains a level in his favored class, he receives either + 1 hit point or + 1 skill rank. The choice of favored class cannot be changed once the character is created, and the choice of gaining a hit point or a skill rank each time a character gains a level (including his first level) cannot be changed once made for a particular level. Prestige classes (see Prestige Classes) can never be a favored class.
So you would have to suck it up and not get anything at first level; but you would also then get the FCB for levels 2-7.
Uh, you guys know that a(n) (Anti)Paladin's power isn't tied to a Deity, right?
An Antipaladin's Aura of Evil comes from the Antipaladin, not from any outside source. You don't even need to worship a Deity. You could be an Atheistic character and still keep all of your mojo.
"Antipaladins worship dark deities in the same fashion that paladins worship deities of goodness, but this is no more a requirement of the antipaladin than of the paladin."
I love the Pathfinder system, and I love the world of Golarion, and I love the various mysteries and intrigues; but, eventually, I am going to want to have a moment of revelation.
At some point, the mystery of how Dou-Bral became Zon Kuthon will be more frustrating than interesting; the creation of the Eye of Abendego will cease to be of concern, I will stop caring about why Asmodeus was entrusted with the key to Rovagug's prison, and what he plans on doing with it, and I'll give up guessing at the truth about the death of Aroden.
In every case save one, there might someday be a big reveal where we will finally be let in on what is going on; but not where Aroden is involved.
It honestly has meant that while I still dig for clues and tidbits of information about other secrets of Golarion, I pretty much just ignore Aroden.
I believe it was a mistake to state that the truth about Aroden would never be unveiled. It is one thing to tease people with dangled morsels and red herrings; it is quite another to just say, "Move along folks, nothing to see here".
At this point, the only thing that would get me interested in the mystery of Aroden again, would be a promise that the final Adventure Path Paizo ever puts out for Pathfinder will be about his death.