Starfinder and the death of PFS?


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Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
The Fourth Horseman wrote:
The only point I'm going stick with here, is that yes, some meaning is taken from our choices when the future is so written. It sounds like much of the detail of the future will be set with the writing of Starfinder.

Except it won't be. The present setting of Starfinder will be outlined, and recent events perhaps, but I can guarantee you events that happened in the thousands of years inbetween settings will not be. That's kinda the point of removing Golarion.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Why bother to play the game at all we know the fate of our current world will be baked and eventually swallowed by the sun in about 4 billion years. And after we have fled the solar system we only have something like 2-3 times that long before the universe approaches a cold unforgiving state of highest entropy, or collapses back on itself.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

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If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.

Silver Crusade

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Michael Eshleman wrote:
If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.

It sounds like you've had an epiphany.

Scarab Sages

Rysky wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Add in the fact that we don't actually known how everything got there. So we don't know the fate of everything, and our choices do still matter. To our own characters if nothing else.

This.

The fact that Golarion disappears 1,000s of years in the future doesn't actually affect character agency at all.

Is it really only thousands of years in the future? That really isn't very optimistic. Makes me think that PFS Golarion needs more crazy guys with signs that read, "DOOM!"

Seriously, though, does seem like it should be millions, or billions, rather than thousands. Makes the idea of becoming a lich or vampire so much less appealling....I mean, what's the point of immortality if your all going to die in 1000 years? And for that matter, if there's only 1000yrs on the golarion doomsday clock, kinda makes all this adventuring pointless. Oh, look, we stopped that ancient evil that will be dead anyway, in a thousand years.

The Exchange 5/5 5/55/55/5

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Oh, hun... What makes you think those guys with the signs are crazy?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Murdock Mudeater wrote:

Is it really only thousands of years in the future? That really isn't very optimistic. Makes me think that PFS Golarion needs more crazy guys with signs that read, "DOOM!"

Seriously, though, does seem like it should be millions, or billions, rather than thousands. Makes the idea of becoming a lich or vampire so much less appealling....I mean, what's the point of immortality if your all going to die in 1000 years?

Why do you assume that all the immortals are going to die?

We know Golarion moved. That is all. Tar-Baphon, Geb, the Worldwound, Baba Yaga, et cetera could all still be there... or not. We don't know.


Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Rysky wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Add in the fact that we don't actually known how everything got there. So we don't know the fate of everything, and our choices do still matter. To our own characters if nothing else.

This.

The fact that Golarion disappears 1,000s of years in the future doesn't actually affect character agency at all.

Is it really only thousands of years in the future? That really isn't very optimistic. Makes me think that PFS Golarion needs more crazy guys with signs that read, "DOOM!"

Seriously, though, does seem like it should be millions, or billions, rather than thousands. Makes the idea of becoming a lich or vampire so much less appealling....I mean, what's the point of immortality if your all going to die in 1000 years? And for that matter, if there's only 1000yrs on the golarion doomsday clock, kinda makes all this adventuring pointless. Oh, look, we stopped that ancient evil that will be dead anyway, in a thousand years.

Who said it's doomed and they're all dead? Maybe some evolved magical entity took it off for a joy-ride around the universe.

Millions of years and nothing should be the same. Races, tech, etc. Nothing should be recognizable.

1/5 5/5

Well, if one attained enough Plotonium it would be possible to collapse a world into a Story Singularity...


Kronnar wrote:
Why bother to play the game at all we know the fate of our current world will be baked and eventually swallowed by the sun in about 4 billion years. And after we have fled the solar system we only have something like 2-3 times that long before the universe approaches a cold unforgiving state of highest entropy, or collapses back on itself.

Or take this bit of wisdom..

"Sufficient onto the day be the evils thereof"

-Sermon On The Mount, Gospel of Matthew

Silver Crusade

Have they said how far in the future it is? For some reason, I was thinking much more than a thousand years, but now I can't remember what it was.

Scarab Sages

thejeff wrote:
Millions of years and nothing should be the same. Races, tech, etc. Nothing should be recognizable.

Maybe, maybe not.

Ever watch one of those super hero films, where the world is threatened, and lots of buildings and cities are destroyed by enemies? Ever wonder how often that sort of thing could happen before it started affecting our technology level? Or affected our ability to Evolve?

Evolution and Technological adaptation both don't really happen much without more stability than the Golorian setting has. As is, the Golorian setting will likely have the same races and tech level in a thousand years. Might even be the same in a million years.

Scarab Sages

Doom Girl wrote:
Oh, hun... What makes you think those guys with the signs are crazy?

I didn't say I think the people in real life with "doom!" signs are crazy, I said the pathfinder setting needs more crazy guys with, "doom!" signs. There is a difference.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5

Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Doom Girl wrote:
Oh, hun... What makes you think those guys with the signs are crazy?
I didn't say I think the people in real life with "doom!" signs are crazy, I said the pathfinder setting needs more crazy guys with, "doom!" signs. There is a difference.

Stares at Murdock Mudeater.

"IS THUNDERLIPS! NOT ENOUGH CRAZY PEOPLE FOR YOU?"

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Fromper wrote:
Have they said how far in the future it is? For some reason, I was thinking much more than a thousand years, but now I can't remember what it was.

I believe it is 10,000 or so, which is why I have been saying thousands.


Murdock Mudeater wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Millions of years and nothing should be the same. Races, tech, etc. Nothing should be recognizable.

Maybe, maybe not.

Ever watch one of those super hero films, where the world is threatened, and lots of buildings and cities are destroyed by enemies? Ever wonder how often that sort of thing could happen before it started affecting our technology level? Or affected our ability to Evolve?

Evolution and Technological adaptation both don't really happen much without more stability than the Golorian setting has. As is, the Golorian setting will likely have the same races and tech level in a thousand years. Might even be the same in a million years.

Chaos and destruction like that is far more likely to spur evolution

Neither evolution nor tech are stable under any reasonable conditions. Primitive tech might be - we had millions of years of stone tools as several distinct species.

Millions of years of renaissance level tech & high magic? They're far more likely to have evolved and magically/technologically advanced beyond our comprehension than to stay the same. Or to have wiped themselves back down to stone age tech and worked back up again - multiple times. Which would likely involve actual extinction and speciation events, especially since we're dealing with multiple sapient species.

A thousand years, sure. Even 10,000. Tech advances, but we wouldn't expect much in the way of wholesale speciation. Given the multiple sapient species, you might see some?

Given the lack of stability of Golarion - you're even more likely to see a planetary level apocalyptic event. Some of the APs have qualified. There have been multiple barely averted ones in just a few years.

Scarab Sages

thejeff wrote:

Chaos and destruction like that is far more likely to spur evolution

Neither evolution nor tech are stable under any reasonable conditions. Primitive tech might be - we had millions of years of stone tools as several distinct species.

Millions of years of renaissance level tech & high magic? They're far more likely to have evolved and magically/technologically advanced beyond our comprehension than to stay the same. Or to have wiped themselves back down to stone age tech and worked back up again - multiple times. Which would likely involve actual extinction and speciation events, especially since we're dealing with multiple sapient species.

A thousand years, sure. Even 10,000. Tech advances, but we wouldn't expect much in the way of wholesale speciation. Given the multiple sapient species, you might see some?

Given the lack of stability of Golarion - you're even more likely to see a planetary level apocalyptic event. Some of the APs have qualified. There have been multiple barely averted ones in just a few years.

A species must *survive* chaos and destruction in order to evolve. There's no evolution when everything is just wiped out. And, regarding evolution, the racial trait options would be evolution. Pathfinder would not regard them as a new race, so unclear if that qualifies as actual evolution for this argument.

Technology too, requires survival. In regard to pathfinder, the big difference vs our actual world, is that countries in pathfinder are smaller and are unable to really mass produce anything. And mass production is really the cornerstone of how the modern world advances their technology so quickly. Destroying all factories and schools, via some global event, would be enough pause our own technological advancement by at least a generation.

Millions of years of about the same tech level, yeah, sounds right. Though our tech level isn't really renaissance. It's dark ages at the median, with an easy + or - 800yrs from nation to nation (so about 300 BCE thru 1800 CE). There are pockets of dramically higher and lower tech levels, too. And yeah, High magic is one of the big factors, as the presense of heavy magic makes technoligical reliance more iffy and slower to progress.

As for global destruction, averting that is what adventurers do. And the presence of adventurers is why the setting exists, so I kinda expect the setting to last as long as the players are willing to keep making characters....

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Fromper wrote:
Michael Eshleman wrote:
If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.
It sounds like you've had an epiphany.

I see what you did there. :)


Rysky wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Have they said how far in the future it is? For some reason, I was thinking much more than a thousand years, but now I can't remember what it was.
I believe it is 10,000 or so, which is why I have been saying thousands.

Or about twice as long as the entirity of recorded history on Earth. That's plenty of time for the Pathfinder Society and all its members to become nothing more than an obscure footnote in a book about the last civilisation but one.


Fromper wrote:
Have they said how far in the future it is? For some reason, I was thinking much more than a thousand years, but now I can't remember what it was.

Other than very very long time even in elf years, no. When Golarion went bye-bye, it took it's calendar with it.


Neriathale wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Have they said how far in the future it is? For some reason, I was thinking much more than a thousand years, but now I can't remember what it was.
I believe it is 10,000 or so, which is why I have been saying thousands.
Or about twice as long as the entirity of recorded history on Earth. That's plenty of time for the Pathfinder Society and all its members to become nothing more than an obscure footnote in a book about the last civilisation but one.

You haven't done far future until you've visited the Ninth World. :)

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo) 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Voadkha wrote:

Thanks for the answers and everyone's comments, especially Vic Wertz for treating my questions with respect.

Even the posts that chastised me for what they perceived as baseless fears were useful reminders that the PFS community has numerous people that, apparently, know nothing of Living Greyhawk.

Lord John Greyhawk... Spelljammer holds a special place in my heart and I periodically wish Paizo would quit teasing me with what I consider some direct tie-ins!

I was there the day Living Greyhawk died at gencon.

It was awful and was honestly the reason I delayed getting heavily involved in Society play for as long as I did.

But Paizo has all along proven that they aren't Wizards or RPGA and most likely they never will be, thank god.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Douglas Edwards wrote:


I was there the day Living Greyhawk died at gencon.

It was awful and was honestly the reason I delayed getting heavily involved in Society play for as long as I did.

But Paizo has all along proven that they aren't Wizards or RPGA and most likely they never will be, thank god.

This sounds almost like the inspiration for 'American Pie' here. Don McLean song, not the movies...

Some insight would be appreciated, either privately or here.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo) 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Douglas Edwards wrote:


I was there the day Living Greyhawk died at gencon.

It was awful and was honestly the reason I delayed getting heavily involved in Society play for as long as I did.

But Paizo has all along proven that they aren't Wizards or RPGA and most likely they never will be, thank god.

This sounds almost like the inspiration for 'American Pie' here. Don McLean song, not the movies...

Some insight would be appreciated, either privately or here.

When 4E was announced/unveiled at Gencon, they had a lengthy Q&A session, from primarily Living Greyhawk players and through the course of the Q&A it became increasingly clear the 4E wasn't going to have organized play of the sort we were used to and wasn't going to have open sourcing and that Living Greyhawk was going to end the next year at gencon.

It was really a sight to behold watching the tenor of the room go from nervous excitement and joy at being there for the announcement to just dread and despair and anger. Like the tone of the Q&A got downright hostile which probably didn't help matters.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Douglas Edwards wrote:


When 4E was announced/unveiled at Gencon, they had a lengthy Q&A session, from primarily Living Greyhawk players and through the course of the Q&A it became increasingly clear the 4E wasn't going to have organized play of the sort we were used to and wasn't going to have open sourcing and that Living Greyhawk was going to end the next year at gencon.

It was really a sight to behold watching the tenor of the room go from nervous excitement and joy at being there for the announcement to just dread and despair and anger. Like the tone of the Q&A got downright hostile which probably didn't help matters.

Thank you for the insight and the history.

Shared insight helps us all grow.

Today at work I came to a greater epiphany than what had been mentioned above.

The Gap helps bridge the thorny problem of 'character agency' by leaving it all unknown.

For all we know, every single thing we do, good or ill in playing Pathfinder may bring about the Starfinder future.

As a result, continuing the story here may or may not have a future impact... call it 'Wei Ji's Quantum Gaming Theory' or somewhat if you would.

It actually gives me more hope for the nascent franchise than before. Unknowing of our impact but aware that something we did may have brought it about...

3/5 Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Douglas Edwards wrote:
Voadkha wrote:

Thanks for the answers and everyone's comments, especially Vic Wertz for treating my questions with respect.

Even the posts that chastised me for what they perceived as baseless fears were useful reminders that the PFS community has numerous people that, apparently, know nothing of Living Greyhawk.

Lord John Greyhawk... Spelljammer holds a special place in my heart and I periodically wish Paizo would quit teasing me with what I consider some direct tie-ins!

I was there the day Living Greyhawk died at gencon.

It was awful and was honestly the reason I delayed getting heavily involved in Society play for as long as I did.

But Paizo has all along proven that they aren't Wizards or RPGA and most likely they never will be, thank god.

Wait didn't they actually stopped getting involved a while after 4th edition?

The Exchange 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

Neriathale wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Have they said how far in the future it is? For some reason, I was thinking much more than a thousand years, but now I can't remember what it was.
I believe it is 10,000 or so, which is why I have been saying thousands.
Or about twice as long as the entirity of recorded history on Earth. That's plenty of time for the Pathfinder Society and all its members to become nothing more than an obscure footnote in a book about the last civilisation but one.

Maybe someone with better search skills than me can find it, but I remember one of the Paizo developers saying that Golarion runs at roughly 1:10 vs. real time. In other words a historical period lasts 10 times as long as its "real world" analogue. Not by some sort of "dimensional magic" or anything, just that was the way they were writing it. That gave them the freedom to have multiple settings on the same planet as the spread of technology and empire was much slower.

Wish I could find it, the big thing I remember was the developer saying "it was a mistake" because it resulted in a lot of things that really couldn't last as long as they have on Golarion. (Like the Galtan revolution being steady-state and not having evolved into something else.)

Scarab Sages 5/5

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What if Starfinder is actually in the past?

1/5 5/5

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They flutter behind you your possible pasts
some brighteyed and crazy some frightened and lost
A warning to anyone still in command
of their possible future to take care

--'Your Possible Pasts', The Final Cut, Roger Waters

Scarab Sages 5/5

Nice quote. I was thinking more along the lines of Terry Brooks.

Scarab Sages

Tallow wrote:
What if Starfinder is actually in the past?

I think that would make for a better setting.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber
Douglas Edwards wrote:
It was really a sight to behold watching the tenor of the room go from nervous excitement and joy at being there for the announcement to just dread and despair and anger. Like the tone of the Q&A got downright hostile which probably didn't help matters.

This was just one of many way in which Wizards dropped the ball on 4e. I'm pretty sure that Pathfinder has been around for longer than 4e was viable. (Although it had players, as a product with the name "Dungeons & Dragons", I don't think it was really viable for the three? years before 5e was released.) (And, honestly, I think they've dropped a big one in 5e by not releasing PDFs of their core rule books. It's the one reason I've never purchased even the 5e PH.)

Paizo has demonstrated that they are not dropping balls in the same crazy way that Wizards did with 4e. They've learned lessons watching Wizards, and probably came at it with a better clue in the first place.

Starfinder won't kill Pathfinder. Unless RPG players have tremendously changed in the last couple of years, the genre just will never be as popular as "D&D-style fantasy" is. I don't think Paizo is aiming for a market nearly as big for Starfinder as they do for Pathfinder.

There's another thing to consider: it wasn't just 4e that killed Living Greyhawk. From testimonials of people who watched it to the end (these testimonials usually showing up in replay threads), it was dead already; unlimited replay, and other structural factors, had soured it into something unappealing for newer players, a gold-farming and boon-farming joke of a formerly interesting organized play campaign. The official announcement of it ending, while making lots of people mad, may in reality have been a mercy killing.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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Starfinder Superscriber
Tallow wrote:
What if Starfinder is actually in the past?

Bzzzzzzt. Thank you for your interest in the planet of Golarion. This automated message has been left for potential visitors to the planet to encourage their continued enthusiasm. Golarion is currently experiencing a temporary outage. We value your custom and assure you that Golarion will be back online as soon as it is again available, better than ever. A coalition of deities, led by Sarenrae and Asmodeus, are performing some exciting upgrades to Golarion, installing an exiting and powerful new core into the planet. Once this project is complete, its full nature will be announced and Golarion will again be made available for visitors. Bzzzzzt.

On a more serious note: isn't Iomedae one of the deities listed as the top 20 in Starfinder? If so, that'd make it hard for Starfinder to be in the past without some very serious wibbly-wobby timey-wimey stuff.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
rknop wrote:
Tallow wrote:
What if Starfinder is actually in the past?

On a more serious note: isn't Iomedae one of the deities listed as the top 20 in Starfinder? If so, that'd make it hard for Starfinder to be in the past without some very serious wibbly-wobby timey-wimey stuff.

On the automated message Q&A boards:

Q: So when can we expect to see the planet of Golarion?

A: Soon

That be Blizzard humor, in case someone doesn't get the joke!

As far as wibbley-wobbley timey-wimey?

The true history of Aroden, REVEALED! Iomedae got bored with being a female deity for several thousand years and decided to try out being a guy, with predictable results. Now rested and recharged and regenerated, she's ready to bring Good back. :P

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo) 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

rknop wrote:
Douglas Edwards wrote:
It was really a sight to behold watching the tenor of the room go from nervous excitement and joy at being there for the announcement to just dread and despair and anger. Like the tone of the Q&A got downright hostile which probably didn't help matters.

This was just one of many way in which Wizards dropped the ball on 4e. I'm pretty sure that Pathfinder has been around for longer than 4e was viable. (Although it had players, as a product with the name "Dungeons & Dragons", I don't think it was really viable for the three? years before 5e was released.) (And, honestly, I think they've dropped a big one in 5e by not releasing PDFs of their core rule books. It's the one reason I've never purchased even the 5e PH.)

Paizo has demonstrated that they are not dropping balls in the same crazy way that Wizards did with 4e. They've learned lessons watching Wizards, and probably came at it with a better clue in the first place.

Starfinder won't kill Pathfinder. Unless RPG players have tremendously changed in the last couple of years, the genre just will never be as popular as "D&D-style fantasy" is. I don't think Paizo is aiming for a market nearly as big for Starfinder as they do for Pathfinder.

There's another thing to consider: it wasn't just 4e that killed Living Greyhawk. From testimonials of people who watched it to the end (these testimonials usually showing up in replay threads), it was dead already; unlimited replay, and other structural factors, had soured it into something unappealing for newer players, a gold-farming and boon-farming joke of a formerly interesting organized play campaign. The official announcement of it ending, while making lots of people mad, may in reality have been a mercy killing.

I cannot really speak to this. Unless that final year after I left the scene following the 4E announcement things got a lot worse, the scene in Ohio was still pretty vibrant and healthy up until the 4e announcement. To my knowledge, people in my area didn't really do much replaying because there were just so. many. scenarios. You had a full complement of CORE advnetures, and a smaller but still considerable regional catalog, and then meta-regional adventures. Then you could journey outside your region and play those regionals.

Unless you had been an early adopter who was a real road warrior I cannot see how you could have even run out of things to play. I do think the campaign did BASICALLY peak with the Blood on the Bright Sands arc which was two years before the end, especially since the follow up arc was not nearly as inspired.

The big thing that made it a lot worse for me was there was no GM Credit/boons at all. Which certainly encouraged me to be more miserly with handing out credit that was unearned since I didn't have to worry about being seen as selfish. Which probably isn't the best feature to have when building a playerbase OR when encouraging people to GM. You also had to test and demonstrate rules knowledge to GM which I found annoying but I have had more than one convention GM who made me wish that was PFS policy.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber

As a note -- when I posted that, I had confused LG and LFR. LFR was the one that died an ignominious death, credited by many to be due to unlimited replay.

It sounds like LG was fairly thriving until the death you describe by Wizards beginning the string of ball-dropping that was 4e.

Dark Archive 3/5

rknop wrote:

As a note -- when I posted that, I had confused LG and LFR. LFR was the one that died an ignominious death, credited by many to be due to unlimited replay.

It sounds like LG was fairly thriving until the death you describe by Wizards beginning the string of ball-dropping that was 4e.

LFR and the Eberron setting counterpart were, indeed, very awkward and poorly implemented. I can't think of a single game played in those where I honestly enjoyed myself. I think that is what soured so many people when Greyhawk ended. We had already seen what WotC wanted for "Living" campaigns and it was not palatable. I tried to stomach it again in 4th and couldn't. That's actually what lead me to Pathfinder in the first place.

On the flip side, Living Campaigns had become unwieldy for what was in theory a marketing tool. Greyhawk alone ran on hundreds of volunteer regional/metaregional coordinators and meta-org coordinators. There wasn't a lot of oversight in the writing of scenarios and storylines by WotC or the Circle (Campaign Coordinators), either. For those who don't know: Imagine a system where your VOs reviewed, edited, approved, and sometimes wrote scenarios in your area with no regular review by John, Linda, or Tonya. That's more or less what LG had.

I can absolutely understand why WotC wanted to create a low cost, low labor/development alternative under their control. They just went too far in the other direction.

PFS strikes a very comfortable middle ground that clearly learned lessons from all of this.

Liberty's Edge 2/5 5/5

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rknop wrote:
Tallow wrote:
What if Starfinder is actually in the past?

Bzzzzzzt. Thank you for your interest in the planet of Golarion. This automated message has been left for potential visitors to the planet to encourage their continued enthusiasm. Golarion is currently experiencing a temporary outage. We value your custom and assure you that Golarion will be back online as soon as it is again available, better than ever. A coalition of deities, led by Sarenrae and Asmodeus, are performing some exciting upgrades to Golarion, installing an exiting and powerful new core into the planet. Once this project is complete, its full nature will be announced and Golarion will again be made available for visitors. Bzzzzzt.

Bzzzzzzt. We would like to thank you for your continued interest in Golarion, and would like to assure you that the nuclear missiles on an intercept course with your vessel are a courtesy we extend to only our most enthusiastic customers. Bzzzzzzt.

5/5 5/5

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bdk86 wrote:
On the flip side, Living Campaigns had become unwieldy for what was in theory a marketing tool. Greyhawk alone ran on hundreds of volunteer regional/metaregional coordinators and meta-org coordinators. There wasn't a lot of oversight in the writing of scenarios and storylines by WotC or the Circle (Campaign Coordinators), either. For those who don't know: Imagine a system where your VOs reviewed, edited, approved, and sometimes wrote scenarios in your area with no regular review by John, Linda, or Tonya. That's more or less what LG had.

My experience with the LG review by Circle members was different. I was a Triad member for NC/SC at the start of the campaign and there was a review process from the Circle on everything. There weren't often changes to the scenarios we passed up the chain, but that may be more of a reflection of our review at the lower levels than a lack of review higher up. The metagaming materials we developed had considerable back and forth during their development, with significant changes made in response to the Circle's input. Finally, after I left the Triad, there was an incident where the Triad member responsible for scenario review failed to send two scenarios up to the Circle for final review and released them for play at a convention. He was banned from RPGA play for 4 years and all play credits for those scenarios were voided as if they never happened, so that is a testament to how seriously they took the review process.

The advantage of the LG model was that it allowed for vastly different flavor from region to region and it allowed for a lot of input from a wide variety of players and developers around the world. In our region, we had input from a lot of folks who did not live in our area and, as far as I know, never played a game in the region. I recognize a number of names on these boards from the mail group discussions we had during the campaign development phase. The tiered model of management allowed for more scenarios available to play, but the downside was that the quality of those scenarios was very inconsistent. Another downside was that there was less of a unified vision than I see in PFS.

In the end, I enjoyed both campaigns and I can see positive and negative aspects to both, with the positives far outweighing the negatives in my experience. My experience with Living Forgotten Realms was vastly different - I think that it demonstrated a decided lack of understanding of the lessons learned from Living City and Living Greyhawk and the unlimited replay option that seemed so attractive to so many turned out to be an extremely bad choice, in my opinion.


Voadkha wrote:

Perhaps I'm still suffering from the psychological scars caused by the destruction of LG but the new Starfinder button showing up filled me with dread.

Has there been official word from Paizo concerning whether or not the release of Starfinder will coincide with the death of Pathfinder (and more specifically PFS).

Has there been any announcement that PFS is intended to be "phased out" in the near future? Do they have at least a tentative commitment to continue PFS through Season 9 and into Season 10?

Starfinder society does exist, and will not phase Pathfinder, nor PFS, in any way. Starfinder has entirely different creative teams, while Jason Buhlman is on the creative team for Starfinder, he is not the creative director. If anything, Paizo is just going to become a Two-Headed Monster of the gaming community. Pathfinder and Starfinder.


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MattGM wrote:
Voadkha wrote:

Perhaps I'm still suffering from the psychological scars caused by the destruction of LG but the new Starfinder button showing up filled me with dread.

Has there been official word from Paizo concerning whether or not the release of Starfinder will coincide with the death of Pathfinder (and more specifically PFS).

Has there been any announcement that PFS is intended to be "phased out" in the near future? Do they have at least a tentative commitment to continue PFS through Season 9 and into Season 10?

Starfinder society does exist, and will not phase Pathfinder, nor PFS, in any way. Starfinder has entirely different creative teams, while Jason Buhlman is on the creative team for Starfinder, he is not the creative director. If anything, Paizo is just going to become a Two-Headed Monster of the gaming community. Pathfinder and Starfinder.

Um...

This thread is more than eight months old. This stuff all got cleared up ages ago.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Necro aside, I as a GM have had to divide my time between GMing PFS, CORE and SFS, so I can attest that I am not giving as much to PFS. At a recent Con I GMed mostly Starfinder. At an upcoming Con I'm GMing mostly Pathfinder. I haven't seen CORE scheduled anywhere, and so some of my homegame time goes to that (cuz we want CORE Eyes eventually).

Will be interesting to see which direction other GMs start leaning.

Silver Crusade

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Nefreet wrote:

Necro aside, I as a GM have had to divide my time between GMing PFS, CORE and SFS, so I can attest that I am not giving as much to PFS. At a recent Con I GMed mostly Starfinder. At an upcoming Con I'm GMing mostly Pathfinder. I haven't seen CORE scheduled anywhere, and so some of my homegame time goes to that (cuz we want CORE Eyes eventually).

Will be interesting to see which direction other GMs start leaning.

Just playing at local stores, I've played 4 sessions of SFS so far. All of those were at regularly scheduled PFS games that would have been playing PFS if SFS didn't exist. So SFS is definitely cutting into the number of PFS session being played, at least around here.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

For us it's made scheduling PFS maybe a teensy bit easier. We were burning through PFS scenarios quite fast, but this has helped spread things a bit.

The Exchange

Locally we have had a decent scene for a long time so SFS was given its own day and doesn't cut into PFS time. I've been traveling for work though and it does cut into schedules elsewhere that I've been to where they switch off between the two.

I think it actually works out well if you are playing only new adventures for PFS. You will probably follow the release schedules of scenarios fairly well. It won't give new players the chance to go back and play old scenarios but for veterans it is a pretty decent option even if it doesn't interest me in particular.

4/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Nefreet wrote:

Necro aside, I as a GM have had to divide my time between GMing PFS, CORE and SFS, so I can attest that I am not giving as much to PFS. At a recent Con I GMed mostly Starfinder. At an upcoming Con I'm GMing mostly Pathfinder. I haven't seen CORE scheduled anywhere, and so some of my homegame time goes to that (cuz we want CORE Eyes eventually).

Will be interesting to see which direction other GMs start leaning.

In CORE Eyes,

the light the heat,
CORE Eyes,
I am complete


I haven't been able to go to my local games very much lately, but there seemed to already be an issue with a lack of players for PFS fairly often, and SFS is on the same day so... I'm a little worried, honestly.

Dark Archive 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kiesman wrote:
I haven't been able to go to my local games very much lately, but there seemed to already be an issue with a lack of players for PFS fairly often, and SFS is on the same day so... I'm a little worried, honestly.

I don't know if that's something to worry about. At least for my local stores, we were down to 4 regular players and have a SFS game scheduled for next session with 9 signed up.

Sovereign Court 4/5

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Serisan wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

Necro aside, I as a GM have had to divide my time between GMing PFS, CORE and SFS, so I can attest that I am not giving as much to PFS. At a recent Con I GMed mostly Starfinder. At an upcoming Con I'm GMing mostly Pathfinder. I haven't seen CORE scheduled anywhere, and so some of my homegame time goes to that (cuz we want CORE Eyes eventually).

Will be interesting to see which direction other GMs start leaning.

In CORE Eyes,

the light the heat,
CORE Eyes,
I am complete

And all my agents,

They return,
And the Grand Lodge,
so soon will burn...

Wait, what was that last part again?

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Missouri—Cape Girardeau

CigarPete wrote:
Kiesman wrote:
I haven't been able to go to my local games very much lately, but there seemed to already be an issue with a lack of players for PFS fairly often, and SFS is on the same day so... I'm a little worried, honestly.
I don't know if that's something to worry about. At least for my local stores, we were down to 4 regular players and have a SFS game scheduled for next session with 9 signed up.

Part of this is the 'New Shiney'effect. It will probably balance out soon.

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