Chani Loasa's page

With the wording change to spellcasting archetypes:

Some archetypes grant you a substantial degree of spellcasting, albeit delayed compared to a character from a spellcasting class. A spellcasting archetype allows you to use scrolls, staves, and wands in the same way that a member of a spellcasting class can. The spellcasting ability from a spellcasting archetype also allows you to use Cast a Spell activations of items (such as scrolls, staves, and wands).

Spellcasting archetypes always grant the ability to cast cantrips in their dedication, and then they have a basic spellcasting feat, an expert spellcasting feat, and a master spellcasting feat. These feats share their name with the archetype; for instance, the druid's master spellcasting feat is called Master Druid Spellcasting.

From what I am seeing, Spellhearts are now available to cast from along with scrolls and wands. But you do need the level 4 basic spellcasting feat to do it with.

Now, whether you think that is a nerf or a clarification is not what I am asking (I expect people will discuss that anyway, and that is fine). My question is:

Does anyone have a rules argument to say that you only need the archetype Dedication to cast from scrolls?

Using a sliver of Baba Yaga’s power, you briefly bring a nearby object to life. The object gains a means of locomotion if it does not already have one, such as sprouting chicken legs, and Strides up to 25 feet to a space you decide within range. Once per round, you can Sustain the spell to command the object further, either prompting it to move again or to Strike. If prompted to move, the object Strides up to 25 feet again to a space within 30 feet of you. If prompted to Strike, the object attacks one creature of your choice adjacent to its space. Make a melee spell attack roll against the creature. On a success, the creature takes 2d4 damage. The damage is either bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, as appropriate for the object. The object doesn’t do anything if it doesn’t receive further commands from you. If you cast spirit object again, any previously affected object reverts back to normal. You can Dismiss the spell.

Talking with someone elsewhere about this reprinted Hex, and I noticed a few things that seem really strange.

1) Spell attack rolls don't have any general rule that you double the damage on a critical success. Strike does. Persistent Damage does. Saving throw spells can use the keyword 'Basic Save' for default behavior. But spell attack roll spells have to all explicitly list what happens on a critical success. That was even added in as errata when it was forgotten about for Polar Ray (CRB 1st errata).

Spirit Object is in that same position as Polar Ray was originally. It doesn't have anything listed for what happens on a critical success of the spell attack roll. So at that point it would follow the general rules that if a critical success or critical failure entry is omitted, it uses the entry for regular success or regular failure.

Side note: I am not sure why there isn't a general rule that a spell attack roll spell that doesn't specify otherwise would do the listed damage on a success and double damage on a critical success.

2) The original printing of Spirit Object had 1-action and 2-action cast options. The 1-action option would only allow moving the object. The 2-action option would allow both movement and Strike. It also had no duration and no lockout cooldown - so you could cast the spell again on future turns. Though it was a Hex and doing so would prevent casting other Hex spells.

Spirit Object was changed during the reprint to have a Sustained duration. When you Sustain the spell, you have a choice to either have the object move, or Strike. That allows you to sustain the spell in future rounds without locking you out of casting other Hex spells.

However, the spell also restricts you to only Sustain the spell once per round. So you can only either move the object, or attack with it - not both.

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So is it intended that you can't crit with the spell and that you can only do one of move or attack on future rounds?

I hear such good things about Embodiment of battle. I don't understand.

The only Animist combat build that I can think of to use the spell with is one that focuses on using it pretty much to the exclusion of other focus spells available. Is that the intent?

Stat spread: This is one of the things that you have no way of changing around from day to day. Do you build the character for spellcasting? weapon use? or both? What are some example stat spreads that people are thinking are ideal for an Animist that uses Embodiment of Battle on some days but not others?

Martial weapon proficiency: Are people carrying around two fully runed up weapons - one simple and one martial so that they can use the martial weapon while they have Embodiment of Battle up? Or do they only use weapons while they have Embodiment of Battle and don't use weapons when they don't?

Reactive Strike: This is reasonably nice, but you are still using your spellcaster level proficiency. With bonuses, of course, but see the next paragraph.

Status bonus to accuracy and damage: This is probably the best buff of the spell and likely the draw for it - again unless I am misunderstanding something. With the stat spread and proficiency of a spellcaster, does the +1, +2(at level 7), and +3(at level 13) make up the difference for both of those - both the secondary boost amounts of attack attribute (STR or DEX) and the lack of any other damage boosting in the class when compared to other martial classes? or even hybrid classes like Cleric Warpriest or the pre-Remaster Battle Oracle? Basically, what is the expectation here? I don't think it is full martial, but I am not sure what it is.

Action cost: This spell costs an action each round to sustain. Liturgist can help with that at mid levels (and helps more if the GM is fine with Tumble Through not going through an enemy). But if not Liturgist, the action cost means that there are a lot less actions available to the character.

So TL;DR: Is Embodiment of Battle a reasonable choice for a generalist Animist -one that picks Witness to Ancient Battles apparition on a whim one day? Or is it only good for an Animist that builds for it specifically - taking the right stat array and feats and such to capitalize on it? And how much of a martial does the spell turn the character into?

Select one ally. You and the target roll for initiative as normal, then both use the higher result.

Is that the result of the d20 roll that is shared, or the entire initiative roll result including the possibly very different bonuses to the d20 roll?

Concrete example:

I have an Envoy character in a game that uses Danger Sense and targets the Witchwarper ally. The Envoy has a perception bonus of +9 and the Witchwarper has a perception bonus of +8. The Witchwarper rolls a 4 for a total of 12, and the Envoy rolls a 13 for a total of 22.

Does the Witchwarper get the die roll of 13 and their +8 bonus for a total of 21 initiative, or do they simply also get the final result of 22 initiative same as the Envoy?

Looking through the classes, this is what I am seeing for initial skill proficiencies:

Envoy: +1(CHA skill) +1(Leadership style) +6 = 8
Mystic: +1(Connection) +3 = 4
Operative: +1(Specialization) +3 = 4
Solarian: +1(Athletics) +1(Stellar Arrangement) +3 = 5
Soldier: +1(Intimidation) +3 = 4
Witchwarper: +1(Paradox) +3 = 4

Which for the most part follows the PF2 pattern of most classes getting 'background +4 +INT' skills trained, with skill-heavy classes getting more.

In this case, Solarian is slightly higher than typical.

One thing that I notice in this is that Starfinder2e currently has two more skills than PF2 does. So that same B+4+INT has to stretch just a bit farther. Probably not by enough that it will be a problem.

I could see moving a couple of PF2 standard skills to a Lore subskill though. Survival and Performance being my choices for the move. I could also see Society's actions and use being absorbed into the Computers skill. Most of the knowledge about society in the Pact Worlds and the Drift and surrounding areas is found on the Infosphere, not memorized.

It is a lot of fun to have these references to various things in the names of feats and abilities and such.

Special shoutout for '360 No Scope' and 'Death Blossom'.

To get some things out of the way to try and prevent this thread from getting derailed too quickly:
* I am Autistic - formally diagnosed by psychologist professionals. I can speak for myself.
* I am aware that I do not speak for all Autistic people - many of whom are very different from myself.
* If this topic makes you uncomfortable, no shade if you want to use the 'hide this thread' option. It is on the forum listing on the right side just past the number of posts announcement and is a hyperlink that look like this: ∅

I know that these types of topics can be very emotionally charged and can make people very uncomfortable. But I think it is important to face that rather than hide from it.

The last time I asked about this, in addition to a bunch of misguided pushback saying that Autistic people shouldn't be allowed any representation at all, I found out that for Paizo Iconic characters, all of neurodiversity is only represented by one Iconic in Starfinder with ADHD. No representation for Autism at all.

Why Autistic representation is a hard thing to do

I'm actually going to start with this instead of my next subject because this is a more valid reason to not include any Autism representation.

It is hard to accurately represent Autistic people. The differences in how an Autistic mind processes information, emotions, and senses is very foreign to non-Autistic people. It isn't something that can be fully understood just by study. And it isn't something that can be portrayed believably and accurately by someone who doesn't understand it fully, so the majority of current Autistic representation is based on stereotypes and misinformation.

To mitigate that, I offer two things.

One, I am offering myself. I am Autistic and am very open about it. I am knowledgeable about the current information on the subject. And most importantly, I have the innate intuitive understanding of Autistic behavior that comes from having an Autistic mind. If anyone - Paizo writer or not - wants to ask me about being Autistic, I will do my best to answer honestly and respectfully.

Two, I will point you to the #ActuallyAutistic community. Yes, that is a real hashtag used on social media that supports hashtags and will get you in touch with other Autistic people who are openly sharing their experience. You don't have to just take my word for things.

What Autism is and what it is not

Autism is a neurotype - a way that the brain is built and wired. There are several neurotypes and they often are not mutually exclusive. The most common neurotype (and therefore the one given the somewhat ableist name of 'normal') has the name 'Allistic' - so if you look into any of the #ActuallyAutistic information and see that term, that is what it means. In addition to Allistic and Autistic, there are other neurotypes as well: ADHD, Dyslexia, Tourette's Syndrome, and being left-handed or right-handed are all neurotypes.

One important thing to note is that neurotypes cannot be changed. It is not possible to rewire someone's brain. It is possible to hide one's neurotype behaviors - such as a left-handed person learning to use their right hand for common things. This does not change their neurotype.

Another important thing to note is that people with different neurotypes are still human and still exhibit many common human behaviors. Also, behaviors caused by a particular neurotype are not always exclusive to that neurotype. Right-handed people can do many things with their left hand. This does not mean that right-handed people are 'a little bit left-handed'.

Being Autistic often feels like being a min-maxer of the IRL world. That isn't entirely accurate, but as a one-liner that would be understood by the people on this forum, it isn't too bad. A more clinical description is that an Autistically wired brain causes:
* Differences in executive function - the ability to consciously choose what tasks to do and how long to spend on them. Autistic people are generally very single-task and hyper-focus on that task. Interruptions and changes to plans become very disruptive. For comparison, ADHD also has differences in executive function, but it has different differences.
* Sensory differences of heightened senses, lowered senses, or discrete-valued senses. These can be classical senses like touch, vision, hearing, and smell or they can be interoception senses such as pain, hunger, or body position.
* Differences in emotional processing, often causing emotion processing delays or an inability to define or describe the emotions being felt.

The traits and behaviors of Autism can generally be traced back to these differences. Lack of eye contact is primarily due to sensory overload and single-task executive function - it is harder to focus on what you are saying while also watching your face move. Flat affect and lack of nonverbal communication cues are primarily due to emotional processing delays. Things like that.

Autism is not a mental health condition, a learning disability, or a learning hyperability. These are all co-occurring conditions that affect Autistic people at higher rates than the general population, but they are not actually part of being Autistic. Also, non-Autistic people experience these things too. For example, Kim Peek, the IRL person who was the inspiration for the savant character in the movie Rainman, wasn't actually Autistic (though he was misdiagnosed as Autistic initially).

Muddying the waters is the fact that about 30% of the diagnosed Autistic population also has some form of learning disability or intellectual disability, and that a staggering, but unspecified number, of Autistic people also have mental health problems - primarily PTSD and Depression. But these intellectual disabilities, savant syndrome, and mental health problems are not inherently part of Autism.

Why Autistic people need representation

This is the most important part of this entire post. But it has to be put last because all of the other things have to be said first in order for this to make sense and not just get bashed on.

Autism is, very rightly, classified as a disability. However, there is little that is inherently debilitating about being Autistic (some interoception sensory problems such as not noticing when you are getting hungry until you are suffering the physical effects of hypoglycemia would still be considered debilitating without any social pressure). The disability is caused entirely because society does not accept us or normalize our behaviors.

I want to present for consideration two other things:

Being left-handed was stigmatized and maligned for many centuries. In fact, to this day the name for being left-handed - 'Sinister' - is generally used as an insult and is only prevented from being one of the forbidden words like the n**** slur and the r**** slur because it has become completely disconnected from its original meaning of describing being left-handed. Historically, left-handed people were accused of all sorts of things based entirely on superstition, and forced to use their right hand for things such as writing. Left-handed people were (and to an extent still are) at a disadvantage in society because tools are designed for right-handed use and using their left hand for things would invite criticism, fear, and being ostracized from society.

For at least many decades, being LGBTQ+ has been stigmatized and maligned. Such people were ostracized from society - often even officially such as the United States military's policy of "don't ask, don't tell".

In both of these cases, there is nothing inherently debilitating of being in those categories of human being. It isn't the left-handed people or the LGBTQ+ people who need to change - what needs to change is society's acceptance of such people. And one of the best ways of changing society is to have accurate and meaningful representation in popular media and the stories that we tell.

And it is the same for me. I cannot change being Autistic. I was born Autistic, I will die Autistic, and only my fleas will mourn me. So as difficult as it is to change society, changing society is the only option that I have to try and improve the conditions of life for myself, my Autistic children, and other Autistic people in the world.

I put up a google drive doc with the world map on it. It shows Hillcross in the top inside the Realm of the Mammoth Lords. That is where this adventure takes place.

A group of Pathfinders is going through the land of the Mammoth Lords and have recently arrived in Hillcross.

A couple of years ago, we experienced undefined behavior about when a post is submitted and when it becomes visible on all browsers. I am suspecting some sort of caching thing possibly regarding a BASE database setup instead of ACID database.

After the maintenance yesterday, the Chronomancy bug is back.

Example from a couple of years ago.

Example from today.

Note that in both cases, I am replying to a post that appears to be posted in the future.

Is it possible to upgrade the Staff Nexus Wizard's staff, and then later change what staff it is upgraded to?

I'm seeing this thread regarding Staff Nexus, but it doesn't quite answer this question.

Also, a more concrete example to better illustrate what I am talking about:

A Wizard at level 1 chooses Staff Nexus Thesis and gets their custom Nexus staff.
At level 5 they upgrade it to a Staff of Fire that still has their custom spells on it.
At level 9 is there any process available to end up with the wizard having a Staff of Water (greater) that has their custom Nexus staff spells on it? (And losing the Staff of Fire in the process, of course)

Retraining?
Rebuild boon?
Something else entirely?

I am checking my reading of the new Remaster version of Discern Secrets.

Previously Discern Secrets read as follows:

You call upon your patron's power to better uncover secrets. When you Cast the Spell, the target can Recall Knowledge, Seek, or Sense Motive. The target gains a +1 status bonus to the skill or Perception used for the roll, and this bonus remains as long as you Sustain the Spell. The target is temporarily immune to discern secrets for 1 minute.

So when I cast the spell on an ally, the ally immediately makes one action of their choice between Recall Knowledge, Seek, or Sense Motive. They also gain a +1 status bonus to that action as well as any other actions of that type that they use for the duration of the spell.

The new version is:

Your patron deigns to whisper a few secrets. The target can Recall Knowledge, Seek, or Sense Motive as a free action. The target gains a +1 status bonus to the statistic used for the roll (a skill or Perception) on the roll and as long as you Sustain the spell. The target is temporarily immune to discern secrets for 1 minute.

So when I cast the spell on an ally, they do not immediately take an action out of turn. They instead get an ability granted by the spell to make Recall Knowledge, Seek, or Sense Motive actions as a Free Action for the duration of the spell. They also still get the +1 bonus to all such actions taken.

With Minion rules on the agenda for clarification, what are some questions that need answers?

These are the ones that I can think of on short notice. I'm sure others in the community can add more.

Length of following commands outside of combat:

Minions are defined as taking two actions when given commands. Which works fine in combat. During exploration mode, the length of time that they follow commands for is not defined any other way.

Having minions only follow commands for two actions during exploration mode is very limiting. It causes problems in things like chase/escape scenes because having a character with an animal companion both move, and command their companion to move is a 2-action improvised exploration activity that will cause exhaustion (at least, according to the pre-Remaster rules that I am more familiar with). A stealth skill encounter is even worse. Not only is having the Druid character use Avoid Notice and commanding their animal companion to Avoid Notice an exhuasting 2-action activity, giving commands to their companion every 6 seconds has the Auditory trait and can't be done stealthily.

But there is nothing in the rules to say that Minions will follow commands for anything longer than 6 seconds.

Minions and exploration activities:

Eidolon rules, for Eidolons that have access to the Act Together action, specifically say that both the Eidolon and their Summoner get to use an exploration activity

Are Minion characters supposed to be able to use their own exploration activity as well? Or not?

For example, could a Witch be navigating a trail using Scout, Detect Magic, or Investigate and their familiar be following behind using Cover Tracks? (Or would that be prevented because of the next item...?)

Familiars and Trained skill actions:

In PF2.0 to PF2.4 the Familiar rules have said that a familiar "can use trained skill actions for skills for which it adds your spellcasting ability modifier."

This was removed in Player Core. Neither the familiar rules, or the Pet feat rules, indicate that they can use trained skill actions.

Is it intended that familiars and pets - but not animal companions or hirelings - are unable to use Trained skill actions? For example a familiar with a Fly speed is unable to use the Maneuver in Flight action (which requires trained proficiency) while an Animal Companion with a fly speed is able to use the action (since they actually have Trained proficiency in Acrobatics)?

Using actions automatically to avoid harm:

The Minion trait has this directive: "If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves or to escape obvious harm." But that doesn't give enough guidance.

Do minions automatically use their actions to flee from combat if not commanded to participate for a round?
Does a flying familiar use actions to hover in place if not commanded for a round? Or do they fall out of the air and take fall damage?

So I was reading through the Kineticist for reasons. And I noticed in the Key Terms and Special Rules sections regarding Overlapping Kinetic Auras:

As normal for duplicate effects, a creature can't be affected by multiple copies of the same effect.

I am not sure if this is a general rule currently in the CRB. But I suspect that it will be in the Remastered Player Core or Gamemaster Core.

I'm also assuming that this would apply to Earth's Bile. Sure you could cast multiple copies of the spell and sustain all of them - but any creature in an overlapping area or otherwise affected by multiple copies of the spell would only take the effect once.

First, some build details:

Playing at level 5.
Sage subclass (someone has to do it, right).
Some relevant feats: Conceal Spell, Divert Control, Shield Block, Quick Identification, Gnome Weapon Familiarity.

Today's Apparition and Spell preparation selections:

Innate:
C: Slashing Gust

Animist spells
C: Guidance, Light
1: Command, Fear
2: Dancing Shield, Heal
3: Sound Burst

Apparitions
Imposter in Hidden Places (primary)
Custodian of Groves and Gardens
Witness to Ancient Battles

Takeaways from build process:

I do not get very many cantrips. Two divine cantrips to be freely chosen. So it is a hard decision to choose between buff cantrips like Guidance, Utility cantrips like Light, Healing cantrips like Stabilize, and damage cantrips like Divine Lance. And the Apparitions don't always help much either. Today I got Shield, Telekinetic Hand, and Tangle Vine. Shield is kinda useful - if I didn't spend a general feat on Shield Block. The other two I don't expect to find much use for. This is such a big problem that I picked up a freely chosen primal cantrip from an Ancestry feat so that I would always have a damage dealing cantrip available.

Animist spell slots and Apparition Repertoire also has pretty much the same thing. Freely chosen Divine spells - which is nice. But limited spell slots. It makes for hard decisions on what to focus on - Healing, buffs, debuffs, damage... you can't do it all. And the Apparition Repertoire doesn't always help. We are at level 5 and fully equipped. What exactly am I going to do with Runic Weapon? How about Ghostly Weapon? Wall of Shrubs? Some others may or may not be useful depending on what we encounter during the day. Safe Passage, Veil of Privacy, Enlarge, Invisibility. But even with those, the spell slots available to cast them with are very limited. I couldn't cast Invisibility more than twice during the entire day, for example. And one of those castings would be a 'heightened with no additional effect' by using my one 3rd rank spell slot - which means, oh darn I can't cast Ghostly Weapon any more today.

Encounter 1: general role-play.

The party came into town with an assignment to check in with the local town leader and ask for more details on what the problem is. We arrive and find that the leader's home is currently being repaired. Apparently someone or something replaced the door to their secure accounting room with a brick wall. Workers had to break through the wall in order to access the room again - at which point they found that nothing had been taken.

Takeaways:

Having a bunch of lore skills available is actually really nice. I ended up being able to use a couple of them during the poking around at the 'crime scene' and the approach through the town - Farming and Herbalism lore to check out the town itself, and Underworld lore to check into ideas of why someone would want to do this type of non-crime.

It was also amusing to stealth cast Telekinetic Hand to make myself seem spookier.

Encounter 2: first combat.

I am currently configured with Imposter in Hidden Places primary, which means Discomfiting Whispers as focus spell available. Inaccessible until after the battle is Garden of Healing and Embodiment of Battle.

So with Discomfiting Whispers, my combat strategy was to grab my shield and Gnome hammer and fight from melee range using my 5 foot emanation spell to debuff the enemies I am fighting.

We stumbled unexpectedly across some bandits that were raiding an abandoned shrine. There was an archer, a hellhound, a spellcaster of some sort, and one other guy that didn't really end up doing much.

This was primarily a ranged combat. We had an archer above us on a cliff that we either had to use ranged attacks to target, climb the cliff face, or move quite a ways to get to a ladder to climb up.

So my combat strategy pretty much failed. I couldn't reach the archer. Or the spellcaster. One of our party members used two stride actions to get to a position with cover that was closer to the enemies. Then the hellhound spent two actions on stride to get to that ally and attack once. For my first action I grabbed my hammer and shield, and moved a bit closer. For my second round though, I still had to use two stride actions to get into melee range with the hellhound and only barely made it. I didn't get to choose an optimal position and had only one action left anyway. So Strike it is. But even on third round when I have the actions available, I still can't use my focus spell without hitting the one enemy and two of my own allies with a Misfortune effect.

The Kineticist did most of the work taking out the archer on the cliff. Launching sharpened tree branches worked rather well. The Magus first drove away the hellhound into retreating, then one-shot the other random bandit with a spellstrike crit.

Takeaways

One, Animist isn't a gish. With a 16 strength, I am rolling Strike attack rolls at 3 points lower than the magus and rogue. Even the +1 bonus from Embodiment of Battle isn't going to make up the difference for that.

So I am not entirely sure what Embodiment of Battle is used for. It doesn't seem powerful enough to be worth the action cost of casting, much less sustaining. Even with it, I am still not going to be hanging with the martials.

Discomfiting Whispers I still think is really cool to use. It just wasn't suited for this ranged combat encounter. This would have worked a lot better in a dungeon crawl scenario where we already have our weapons readied and the enemies close in on us. Then I would have more actions to get into good positions where I can let loose with the spell. Also, it is probably best when paired with melee or short range spells such as Ignition, Needle Darts, or Chill Touch. The shield is maybe a good choice for protection, but it does cost another action to Raise Shield. Raise Shield, Sustain Discomfiting Whispers, and I only have one action left - which isn't enough to cast a cantrip with.

Impressions so far:

Animist is like being a prepared spellcaster for most of your build - not just your spell slots.

It is like the difference between Wizard and Sorcerer. Sorcerer has more spellcasting power. They have limited spell choices that they have to stick with, but as long as they can find one spell to use, they can cast it enough times to be effective for an encounter. Wizard has more flexible options, but they have to guess right. If they fill their spell slots with spells that don't end up being relevant, then they aren't relevant in the encounters. If they do guess right, then they are going to be quite effective. And since they have more options, then if both the Sorcerer and Wizard know what is coming up, the Wizard can prepare for it more effectively than the Sorcerer can.

Animist seems to work the same way. If I know what to prepare for, then I can prepare for it quite effectively. Very flexible - like a Wizard. But I can even get things like Lore skills and eventually feats that can be switched in and out as part of that preparation.

One thing that I feel like I should mention in praise is how little has to be recalculated because of a different choice of Apparition each morning. One of the biggest problems that I had as 1e Medium was the constant recalculation of skill bonuses, attack bonuses, and saving throw bonuses.

But for these apparitions, I can just print up and laminate a card for each Apparition that gives the stat block. I don't need to change anything on my character sheet. Well, other than wandering feats - but I am not wanting to give those up. That is also a really nicely done mechanic.

The Lore skills change what lore category they provide, but my sheet only needs to list the bonus and I can look at the Apparition stat block to know which lores I have today.

Same with Spell Repertoire. I don't need to have that on my character sheet - just the number of spell slots of each level. Then I can check the Apparition stats for which spells are available.

And of course same with the focus spells. The character sheet tracks the number of focus points and the Apparition stat blocks on those laminated cards lists out which focus spells are available.

So, nothing on the Apparition cards needs to be changed, and nothing in my character sheet needs to be changed. Daily preparations may still take a while for me to decide which Apparitions to use for the day, but once the decision is made, doing the bookkeeping is trivially easy.

So it seems that the boost to both Fortitude saves and Will saves is accurate.

But that isn't very clear because the wording of that ability parallels the wording of other class features like Barbarian Juggernaut.

Your body is accustomed to physical hardship and resistant to ailments. Your proficiency rank for Fortitude saves increases to master. When you roll a success on a Fortitude save, you get a critical success instead.

At 9th level, your proficiency rank for Fortitude saves increases to master. When you roll a success on a Will save, you get a critical success instead.

I think this should be worded differently to make it clearer that it is two unrelated boosts to each of those two saves. I would go so far as to reverse the ordering.

Proposed Wording: "At 9th level, your mental and physical defenses increase. When you roll a success on a Will save, you get a critical success instead. Also, your proficiency rank for Fortitude saves increases to master."

Edit: It looks like a wording change like this is already on the plan. But for those who don't read every post and are looking for if this is a typo or not, hopefully this thread comes up on the search.

One of the things that I don't like about Sorcerer is the number of feats that you are locked out of taking once you pick your spellcasting tradition. It feels like almost half the feats become unavailable.

Animist's feats are actually worse.

Because while you can pick the feat - using it requires attuning to one of the apparitions. So you feel like you are locking yourself into always taking one of the apparition types permanently every time you get one of these feats that requires it. Otherwise you have a very literally dead feat.

Why not have them be usable as long as you have at least one apparition attuned, and just change the particulars based on the apparitions that the Animist is attuned to? Even basing the particulars on which apparition is currently primary.

Given that the similar thread devolved into rather toxic edition war snarking, and given that Starfinder 2e is going to run on the PF2 engine, I think that a new thread is needed.

Also, let's try to approach this with the expectation that the game devs are telling us the truth about flight and ranged weapons and other such futuristic technology being a core part of the setting from low levels.

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For myself, I would love to see Stamina available as the default and have full core rule support for it.

PF2 has a Stamina optional variant, but it isn't integrated into the game core very well. The only thing that Resolve Points are used for is healing Stamina, and Stabilizing. There are no class features or abilities that use Resolve Points.

Now, I'm aware that designing this would be rather difficult. Giving class feats or features that have Resolve Point costs would mean that Pathfinder classes wouldn't have those. That would be another point of conversion that would need to be done when allowing a PF2 class as a native Starfinder setting option. Adding futuristic technology feats and Resolve Point consuming feats to PF2 classes could be another chapter in a potential Pathfinder2e <-> Starfinder2e crossover book.

Using Focus Points to heal Stamina is also questionable because Focus Points are infinitely renewable. But if that is a balance consideration that the game could go in, that would work.

As far as I can tell, if you critically fail the check for Exploit Vulnerability, you can still consider that creature to be the target of Exploit Vulnerability. So you couldn't use Mortal Weakness or Personal Antithesis, but you could still use Implement reactions that only work on the target of Exploit Vulnerability such as Weapon, Bell, or Amulet.

Which seems a bit strange, but I can't find a rules argument against it. Just because you botch the roll doesn't mean that the creature wasn't targeted.

Thoughts?

To avoid derailing a very useful errata thread...

"The exception proves the rule" is a saying that I have heard used on these forums several times. It seems to mean that if there is no general rule printed, but there is some related rule mechanic for some specific item or feat, that it must be the case that this is an exception override to a general rule that would say the contrary.

Logic and game rules don't really work like that though. It is trivially easy to find a counterexample. Reminder text is a specific rule mechanic statement in a specific item or feat that confirms or repeats and agrees with the general rule. Sometimes rules are deliberately left up to GM interpretation - at least in general. And then specific items can have their own ruling on it that applies to only that item.

"The exception proves the rule" is related to the actual game rule of Specific overrides general. In about the same way that Affirming the Consequent is related to Modus Ponens.

If a general rule exists, then a specific item can have a specific override for it.

But showing a specific rule in an item does not prove that a general rule to the contrary does or should exist.

For a more concrete example:

There is no general rule for whether a vehicle protects its driver, crew, passengers, or cargo from getting wet in the rain. That is left up to GM discretion and how they are describing the particulars of the vehicle. A Rowboat probably does not - if it is raining, then the occupants of a rowboat are getting wet. A Cutter likely does protect from rain for the cargo, passengers, and any crew not on the upper deck. And of course, one would hope that a Bathysphere wouldn't allow rain in.

But none of those actually say so.

So if at some point a Covered Wagon is printed that does specifically say that the cargo and passengers are protected from rain, that does not mean that a Cutter and a Bathysphere no longer does. The specific rule in Covered Wagon does not cause an implied general rule to be added saying that 'without a specific exception, no vehicle protects its occupants from rain.'

That isn't how logic works. And that isn't how game mechanics work.

Welcome to my first time running a PBP game.

Please take a few minutes and read through my profile. And probably at least the profile of Gaming Table.

Details of mechanics and changes for this game:

I'm wanting to run with Ancestry Paragon and Automatic Bonus Progression. For ABP I am tweaking it a bit - item bonuses from consumables and spells are also converted to Potency bonus instead of being removed. This allows things like Magic Weapon, Mage Armor, and Drakeheart Mutagen to continue to work.

Your characters need to be leshies in order to fit into the campaign's narrative, and be at level 3. Note that the campaign is short enough that you won't level up. So keep that in mind when choosing feats and abilities.

Prologue

A well-dressed woman stands and watches her most recent aquisition - a tiny berry bush that is currently walking back and forth in front of the glass display case. 'This may be the cutest one yet,' she thinks to herself.

'And not a moment too soon.' She gets a brief scowl as several other Ladies come into the courtyard. She has her proper smile in place as they arrive, however. She is a Lady after all and must remain courteous. "Oh, you made it. Come and see my latest pet."

Her smile almost falters as one of the women comments, "It isn't another animated stick this time, is it dear?"

'Animated stick, hah. I'm getting better at creating them, just you wait. But I certainly won't be showing my own creations again for a while, you horrid hag.' But she somehow manages to keep her smile in place and replies simply, "This one has plenty of leaves and even some berries. And such an adorable way of walking." She turns back to the display case and sees that the ungrateful thing is no longer walking, but has instead settled itself into the dirt at the bottom of the case and is trying to pretend to be a plain plant. She raps viciously on the glass right in front of it, causing it to jump up and begin cavorting around the enclosure once again.

She grins in satisfaction at the shower of 'oooh's and 'aaah's from most of the ladies. All except the one, who pipes up again. "It looks a bit scared to me. Are you sure that they aren't intelligent?"

"Nonsense," she responds quickly - this time showing a bit of a scowl at the obnoxious woman. "They are plants. Of course they are not intelligent. Barely as smart as gerbils, and that is being generous. But they are a lot prettier." 'Both of which are more than I could say truthfully about you.'

"But come, I have a luncheon ready. And after, we can play croquet on the lawn."

The group readily agrees and follows her into the parlor.

Once the group leaves, the little berry bush goes back to the front corner of the case and continues its slow and tedious work of trying to scrape away the glue holding the glass in place.

Dot and delete. I'll post a proper scene introduction for the players when we are all ready to get started.

One of my favorite announced changes of the Remastered version is the replacement name for Spell Level. It has always felt like that name 'level' was a bit overloaded. Most notably with Spell Level that runs on a different scale than the others (half your level rounded up).

I am hoping that Counteract Level gets the same or similar treatment.

Because with both of those gone, the term 'level' is still rather overloaded (character level, creature level, item level, feat level, ...). But at least all of the usages are on the same scale.

Creating a landing space for discussion on Quick Spring and possible balance problems and ruling considerations for that feat.

So I am looking closer at Lore Oracle in preparation for creating one to actually play rather than just to theorycraft. And I came across Dread Secret. Which has a rather strange Duration entry.

PlantThings mentioned this a couple years ago here. We were also discussing durations of spells and how that affects the magical or non-magical attributes of its created effects not too long ago also. So I figure that this spell becomes an interesting case of applying the rules for spell durations to a particular complicated spell.

From what I am reading in the spell - and applying a very literal interpretation of things - this is what I see:

The spell has a duration of 'until the start of your next turn'. Which is identical to a duration of 1 round.

If the enemy gets a result other than critical success and you choose a weakness, then the target takes 1 point of damage of that weakness type - which is an instantaneous effect that does not have a duration.

If the enemy gets a result other than critical success and you choose a resistance, then the target loses that resistance until the end of your next turn. The effect will be magical in nature until the start of your next turn, and then will become non-magical for the duration of your turn - if that becomes important for some reason.

If a target enemy gets a result of failure on the save, then that enemy becomes Frightened 1 - which will reduce to Frightened 0 and be removed at the end of each target enemy's turn. Which will of necessity all happen before the start of your next turn, so all of the Frightened condition effects for those enemies are magical for the entire duration.

If the enemy gets a result of critical failure on the save, then that enemy becomes Frightened 3. This will be reduced in value at the end of each enemy's turn as normal for the Frightened condition. So the condition will be magical until the start of your next turn and then become non-magical for the remaining time that the Frightened condition lasts.

Ah yes. The joys of new technology.

In this case, the new technology being spambots that can post a word salad that at least on the surface appears to be somewhat coherent and possibly relevant. Of course the only thing that it actually adds to the conversation is a link to an external commercial website.

Maybe I am missing the specification. But Blighted Boons say that you can make a save against their effects - against the initial effect if you partake unknowingly, and you can attempt a save when progressing along the track after each interval time.

It lists the DC.

But there are three saving throw types. I'm not seeing anywhere in the Blighted Boons rules or the specific Blighted Boon entries that specify which type of save to use.

I'm trying to find the specific rules wording for Anathema. But I can't remember where it is.

I have a player that I am playing with that is playing a Paladin and is concerned that they won't be able to use Feint in combat because it uses the Deception skill.

Now, that is not the intent of Anathema, and we have convinced them of that. But I would still like to have the actual rules to back that up. So far all I can see is in Champion Code where it says that the Tenets are listed in order of importance. But that isn't quite enough to say that you are allowed to use Deception in battle since you could also battle things without using Deception. You aren't in a position where the tenets cannot be satisfied even if you decide that Feint is considered lying.

When Thaumaturge gets Second Implement, part of the rules are that they can switch between implements as a free interact action.

Are there any major balance problems with having two or more implements be mechanically separate items, but narratively described as the same item? Switching between implements would be replaced with switching modes of the same implement - and would still be a free interact action (so it still provokes AoO for example). But is there anything else that I am not thinking of?

So with the 4th printing of the CRB and the corresponding errata - has this question been resolved?

Current errata as I see it:

Page 460, 462, and 469: The text on Gaining and Losing actions on page 462 and for the last step of starting your turn on page 469 indicated that if you had a condition that said “you can’t act,” you wouldn’t regain any actions on your turn, rather than merely being unable to use them. This conflicted with the sidebar on page 622, which was correct. Conditions and other effects that cause you to change the number of actions you regain (such as quickened, slowed, or stunned) say so.

Scenario: You get Stunned 1 from a reaction to your first action of your turn. You still have two actions for that turn left.

I'm still not seeing anything that allows you to use those two actions or do anything to remove the Stunned condition. Removing the Stunned condition happens at the start of your next turn. You lose one action from that turn's actions to reduce the Stunned condition to 0 and remove it.

Spin-off from the discussion on alignment going on currently.

I vaguely remember some rule from 3.5/PF1 where casting certain spells would cause the caster to change alignment, but I don't see anything about that in PF2.

So was that something that was dropped and people are just having edition confusion on the matter?

We have a Thaumaturge in a game I am in now. They have Mirror Implement as their first implement.

So we are fighting some flying drakes. We are pretty sure that you shouldn't be able to project your image into the air and have it stay there and fight for the rest of the round. It should be affected by gravity and fall immediately since anything that can affect you will affect either copy of you.

But that made me think about Forced Movement. The rules for Mirror's Reflection say that the effect ends if you choose to move from your location. But what about if you are forced to move from your location such as by being shoved?

The skill feat Read Psychometric Resonance lists that it may deal "Psychic Damage".

If the associated emotion is painfully negative, you might take 1d6 psychic damage, as determined by the GM.

I am not seeing Psychic Damage in the list of damage types in the CRB. However, that doesn't mean that it isn't defined.

So ... Is Psychic Damage something that is defined in Dark Archive and I just haven't found it yet, or is this a typo and it should be errata'd to Mental Damage?

Mostly a question about balance, though if there are explicit rules about this I would be happy to hear that too.

If an enemy has cast Mirror Image on themselves, can you target two of the images (one possibly the actual caster, and one certainly one of the fake images) with a spell or ability that has multiple targets.

So something like Electric Arc, Scorching Ray (which could potentially target up to three of the images, possibly one real and two definitely fake), or Swipe.

Checking to make sure I am not missing something.

For characters that only have Negative Healing but are otherwise still living (such as Dhampir heritage or Revenant background), you still use Treat Wounds on them. Stitch Flesh is only needed for characters that are fully undead like Skeleton ancestry, or Vampire archetype. Or Ghost archetype somehow...

Yes?

So on the excellent Youtube channel How it's Played we have a question about the Witch familiar.

The clarification from Logan Bonner is that the familiar referenced in the Witch Archetype Dedication is the stock-standard familiar, not the Witch specific familiar. That means that it would have only 1 ability to start with and would not increase by level alone.

He also says that if the familiar dies that it does not return at the next daily preparations.

Now, the first one I am fine with. It seems perfectly reasonable.

The second one I see as borderline unplayable. That means that a multiclass Witch that has their familiar die would not be able to prepare Witch spells or refocus (without some other means of refocus) until they end their current adventure and can spend a week of downtime replacing their familiar.

Thoughts?

So I just saw the Mosquito Witch Patron from Monsters of Myth. And I can't help but notice how similar the cantrip hex Buzzing Bites is to the Winter Witch hex Clinging Ice. Both do 1d4 damage per level with a saving throw. Same range, same target, same duration.

The difference is that Buzzing Bites makes it clear that the save is only rolled once and that result is used for the duration of the spell and that the damage that the spell does is repeated once each round when the spell is sustained.

Is anyone else hoping that Clinging Ice will get errata to make it work the same way?

There are plenty of threads discussing Hostile Actions.

But none that I have found that are discussing the interactions with Needle of Vengeance and Subordinate Actions.

The question, obviously, is: would a character that would be affected by Needle of Vengeance takes an action with subordinate actions, do they only take one instance of damage? Or would they take damage for each of the subordinate actions? (taking damage for both the main action and all of its subordinate actions is clearly not correct)

So the baseline: Strike; Strike; Strike. The target clearly takes 3 instances of the Needle of Vengeance damage.

Power Attack costs two actions, but is itself only one action with no subordinate actions. So clearly would only take 1 instance of the Needle of Vengeance.

But how about Flurry of Blows? 1 instance, or 2?

Snagging Strike? It doesn't have a subordinate action, but it does do two hostile things (damage and applies a negative condition).

Triple Shot has up to 3 subordinate actions.

And of course - Spellstrike.

As I have mentioned before, when I play a character it is often a Witch character. It is my go-to class for spellcasting character concepts. I like the high number of trained skills. I like the flexibility of the spellcasting. I like the powerful focus spells. The combat power is a bit lacking as a tradeoff, and I can respect that. But there are already other threads for discussing that.

I also recognize that there are some mechanical problems with the Witch class that I really think should be fixed with official errata.

In order from most important to least:

Familiar actions when not in combat
For the love of the entire pantheon, please clarify the action economy of minion characters during exploration and downtime modes of play. I don't even care what the ruling is. If I don't like it personally, I will houserule it to be what I want for games that I run.

The problem is that the uncertainty is causing people to be wary of creating characters that have a familiar as part of their character's identity and power. We don't know what to expect when the time comes to actually play the character with other players. Are the abilities that I have planned on using actually going to work? Or is it just going to cause contention with the other players at the table? Am I going to feel that my familiar feat choices are dead feats that need retraining at best and maybe just scrap the character entirely (especially for Witch characters that can't just retrain a feat to drop having a familiar entirely)? Is some other player at the table going to feel jealous that I am effectively playing two characters while not in combat?

No ruling is going to make everyone happy. But we do need an official ruling on this.

Basic Lesson
I am not aware of any other class feat of any class at any level that is so single-choice as Witch level 2 taking Basic Lesson, and that includes the Alchemist's Powerful Alchemy feat that was given errata to make it a class feature instead of a feat. No other Witch class feat at level 2 even comes close. Not even dedication feats for an archetype compete. Every Witch character that I have ever even sketched out on paper takes Basic Lesson at level 2. Even ones that take an archetype delay the archetype by two levels in order to take Basic Lesson at level 2.

So give the Witch the same treatment as the Alchemist. In order to 'free up more feats' that are an actual choice at level 2, make Basic Lesson a class feature. Unlike the Alchemist Powerful Alchemy, Basic Lesson also needs to be available to the Witch Archetype though. Personally I am fine either way for having the Basic Lesson archetype feat restore the missing familiar ability or not.

Witch Archetype familiar abilities
Speaking of the Witch Archetype and its familiar, please clarify the number of familiar abilities a Witch Archetype familiar has. It states that it 'has one less familiar ability than normal'. But is that one less than a normal Witch familiar (so 2 ability slots at level 1, 3 at level 6, 4 at level 12 and so on), or is it one less than a standard familiar (so 1 ability slot permanently)?

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These are the problems with the Witch class that I see that can and should be corrected with errata. I'm sure that this thread is going to fill up with people requesting a complete rewrite of the class. I don't think the class actually needs that. I'm sure that there are also going to be making suggestions of new things to add to the class. I may even participate in that.

Since I seem to have Master proficiency in Lore(unpopular opinion), I thought I would chime in with my variation on this thread theme. I don't expect this to be well received, but hey - it is my opinion and therefore just as valid as any other opinion.

So that said, Bard is my least liked and most misunderstood class in PF2e.

My problem with it isn't the mechanical power though. That part seems to be fine. No, my problem is that characters created with that class seem ... inconsistent. It feels like the player chose the class first because it would be a powerful class, and then try (with varying levels of effort) to wrap a meaningful character around it. So character theme tends to fall into one of these two options:

Type 1) My character was a performer or wandering minstrel that became an adventurer because reasons (good so far) that casts mind warping and negative energy Occult spells because LOL (hmm...).

Type 2) My character is a seeker of occult mysteries and strange powers (good) that uses music in combat because LOL (sigh...).

Starting with a character concept first and then choosing a class, I would generally put type 1 characters into Rogue or Swashbuckler class. Give them proficiency in performance (or not - maybe their terrible performance history is why they became an adventurer instead). For type 2 characters I would think that Occult tradition Sorcerer or Witch would be a much better fit.

Also for Type 2 characters, there is the option of re-flavoring the music abilities into something more occult-like, but at that point it should be using the Occultism skill rather than Performance.

So to all of you Bard enthusiasts out there, my question for you is: do you like the class because you have characters that are best represented by a Bard? Or is it, as I suspect, that you chose the Bard class for its mechanical power of improving the mathematical advantage of the party and character building is a distant second priority?

Then when someone casts Fireball at me, I can use my reaction to cast the 4th level Resist Energy spell.

Does anyone remember if there are rules for exactly what order effects happen in when reactions are being used? I though there was. In fact, I think that for reactions, unless they specify otherwise, the effect of the reaction happens after the effects of the action that triggered it.

If I am remembering right, then doing this setup with Trickster's Ace and Resist Energy would still work, but the effect of the Fire resistance would only happen after the damage from the Fireball. So it would be useful for the next Fireball, but not the triggering one.

Putting together another idea for a character build, but I am not sure how useful it would be in general. The idea is a Witch of divine or primal tradition that uses Counterspell Heal in order to hamper the enemy's ability to heal in combat rather than providing healing directly.

But it isn't going to be very useful if none of the enemies ever actually cast Heal.

The Witch class gets a lot of hate on these forums. To an extent, it is justified. However, I don't think that is the whole story.

Witch is a good choice for certain game types and GMs. Witch is not great at games where combat is the majority of the game. A good chunk of the Witch's power is tied up in the familiar, which is primarily useful outside of combat. Witch isn't terrible at combat, but isn't as good in combat as most classes. Generally, a Witch built for combat is going to run out of steam sooner.

Also, a Witch is not the best class at any particular thing. A witch can be built to look like a Wizard, but it won't be as good of a high-impact spell caster as a Wizard is. A Witch can be built to look like a Bard, but it won't be as good of a party buffer as a Bard is. A Witch can be built to look like a Druid, but it won't be as good at druid things as a Druid is. A Witch can be built to look like a Cleric, but it won't be as good of an in-combat healer as a Cleric is.

What a Witch is good at is combining the options of several of the builds. This allows the Witch to switch between the roles as needed. The choice of Patron and tradition will determine which one the Witch character most looks like. A Rune Witch will be most similar to a Wizard, for example. But a Rune Witch will be a much better bard, cleric, or druid than a Wizard will be.

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A Familiar Thesis Wizard walks up to a Rune Witch and says, 'Hey, I have a powerful familiar too. I can also prepare one more spell of each level than you can, and can recharge one of my expended spells each day. What do you have? An extra trained skill and the ability to use a light mace instead of just a club?'

Witch responds with, 'Well, that and one of the best focus point healing spells in the game, and the ability to increase my or my allies ability to find and identify creatures we are fighting. And that is just by level 2. At level 4 I can always reconfigure a spell slot to summon an animal companion to body-block incoming enemies with, but you go ahead and continue just hiding behind the shield cantrip. I can acquire 3 focus points and a handful of useful focus spells. And at level 16 I can also get a free casting of a spell - but it doesn't have to be one that I prepared today. So sure, you go ahead and enjoy your extra spell slots.'

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A Bard comes up to a Fate Witch. 'One of my several Composition cantrips can give a +1 boost to the entire party for the entire battle. I have more HP, better weapons, and I can wear armor. And I have almost as many trained skills as you do before even adding my intelligence bonus. I can cast my spell slot healing spells as many times as needed rather than having to choose how many to have for the day, and my focus point healing spell is just as good as yours. Do you even have anything that compares?'

Witch replies, 'I think you should recalculate your trained skill comparison to account for the skills that my familiar knows too - which of course is: whatever additional skills happen to be needed today. I can blast enemies with Burning Hands, which targets Reflex save. I can even boost everyone's elemental damage against an enemy, which you should note stacks with any weakness that the enemy may already have. And it doesn't have to be just for fire damage. At level 6, without spending any resources, I can keep tabs on one of my allies. At level 10 I can keep tabs on most, if not all of them. If I can find out what matching spells an enemy is going to use, I can prepare and counterspell them, or even reflect them back to the enemy caster. And at level 18 I can refocus all three of my focus points.'

(Yes, this one doesn't compare as favorably. Bard is a harsh class to try to measure up to. Even so, the occult Witch is a better wizard than the Bard is. Which is a really weird sentence to say.)

In both PF1 and Starfinder there is a combat maneuver called Dirty Trick. I am not seeing one for PF2 though.

I see grapple, feint, create a diversion, and demoralize. So there are some things that are similar.

Am I missing seeing the equivalent of Dirty Trick in PF2? Or would I need to homebrew something to get the equivalent?

In this thread here, we are listing out encounters and scenarios that involve skill checks instead of combat. I notice a trend. So far, I am the only one that has actually presented something playable. Meaning that it has skills and DCs listed as well as results and effects of success or failure for those skill checks.

I'm not trying to bust people's chops about it though. On the contrary, I expect that for many of them it is simply because they don't have the time or inclination to write up full scenario data for a game session that they will never actually play. However, I also expect that there are a lot of people on these forums that don't have a good handle on how turn a cool plot hook for a skill-based encounter into a fully fleshed out session that they can run in their game.

I'm not claiming to be an expert at it. I think it would be a good discussion to have. Allow people to present things that work for them and their group. Then we can learn from each other and can pick and choose the ideas that we like.

Counteract rules are confusing. I understand the basic idea, but the way the rules are worded and organized leaves a lot to be desired. There also seems to be a missing rule for how the GM is supposed to determine the DC for anything other than an affliction or a spell.

Searching around on these forums, I have found a couple of other threads on this subject here and here. And the information in them is useful, but is somewhat disconnected.

What I am looking for here is the total process that you use for running a counteract check. I'll have mine here too. However, please don't just post corrections or critiques. Post your entire process that you use as well.

My process for counteract checks.

1) determine the counteract level of the target (the counteracted level). It runs on the scale of 1/2 level rounded up for everything except spells (because they already run on that scale). The level would be the character level of an ability, the spell level of a spell effect, a CR level of a monster or hazard or affliction, or an item level of an item.

2) determine the counteract level of the source initiating the counteract (the counteracting level). It also runs on the scale of 1/2 level rounded up for everything except spells. This follows the same determination as for the target's counteracted level.

3) determine the DC for the counteracted target. Afflictions and maybe some other things will list a counteract DC in their description. Spells use the spell DC of the caster that created the spell effect. For anything else(since the rules don't cover this), I usually use the DC by level table to set the DC.

4) determine the counteracting modifier for the source effect. For spells causing a counteract effect this is the spellcasting bonus (the proficiency modifier and relevant ability modifier). For skill counteract effects it would be the skill bonus (the rules don't really cover this either). In any case, the counteract modifier is also changed by any feats, abilities, or other such things that apply specifically to counteract checks (either generally to all counteract checks, or this specific type of counteract check).

5) Compare counteracting level against the counteracted level - remembering that these will only match what is printed for spells. For items, hazards, creature abilities, or practically anything else it will be 1/2 level rounded up.

6) make the roll. d20 + counteracting modifier vs counteracted DC. Determine level of success.

7) look up on the result table for the level of success rolled to see if the target is actually counteracted or not.

In a different thread there was an off-topic discussion that got buried in a lot of other off-topic posts. I think it is interesting enough to bring back up that discussion in its own thread.

The question is: can a minion do anything during exploration mode without being constantly commanded?

Now, you are unlikely to convince me to run things differently. But I am curious how other people run the game and (more importantly) why.

In counterpoint to this thread (which I think is also a great question and has a lot of good discussion), I want to ask a related but different question.

So, take all your existing characters and put them back on the shelf for a moment. Take your memory and expectations from PF1 classes and put them back in the box. Don't worry, you can pull them back out again later.

Now, with that mindset and building brand new characters, what types of characters are difficult to represent in PF2 rules?

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One that I have heard and agree with is the idea of a character that has a paradigm shift as part of the campaign. Whether that be a redemption arc, a traumatic event, an epiphany, or whatever else - something that requires the character to completely abandon their initial build and go in a new direction.

The problem is that you can't retrain your class or background. If you start as a rogue thief, you will stay as a rogue thief (and only your fleas will mourn you). If you start as a ranger and make a demonic pact at level 4, you can take the Sorcerer archetype, but you can't fully commit to your new powers and have full sorcerer spellcasting.

Now, if the change happened before the story actually starts, then your previous off-screen character could be represented by your background. But changing your character that drastically mid-game doesn't work.