Thaumaturge here. I would do pretty well against a Wisp. Especially as an Eared Catfolk, I could be helping out with pointing out the wisp's position as a free action.
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Chani meets with the others over breakfast. "From the sound of things, Mistress Dusklight has many plans going on at once. You mentioned seeing some of the Celestial Menagerie leaders here in town trying to prevent the carnival here from setting up, yes? We may want to check in on that as well. With Tikomel here being so eager to help with the caverns below, we may have enough people to split up and take care of both fronts."
Chani looks down at the unconscious Kobold. "'Sad cat', hrmmm... I don't think that is referring to me. I haven't met this one before. However," he mentions to Amber, "it may still be best if you stay here. I may not be seen as a friend when this silver one wakes up."
"We are not sure," Chani replies. "Someone we found who didn't attack us on sight. Are there any other Kobolds in camp? Or at least someone who speaks Draconic?"
Chani grabs hold of the kobold and drags them out of the slime as gently as possible. That done, he bundles up the little one and heads out of the tunnels.
You can be the one to interpret Tikomel's delirium ramblings.
"Unfortunately, I don't." Chani considers for a moment. "Though perhaps someone at the carnival camp will. We should hurry back with this one in any case. They do not appear to be in very good shape."
Chani pokes - or at least tries to poke - at the remains of the ether stalkers. "Fascinating. Not ghosts, but not quite all here." He looks cautiously at the Kobold. "I know nearly nothing about Xulgath. I only know a little about Kobolds as well. But my understanding is that they would not likely be working together." Chani ponders for a couple of seconds, remembering the mutilated body in a previous room. "I don't know what would bring this one here."
Chani looks around after the reptile creature vanishes. "Hrr. That did not look like a Human ghost." After getting patched back up, Chani continues along the hallway towards the smaller doors, keeping a close ear out for anything making noise.
"There was another that you mentioned as well," Chani mentions quietly. "Kalagash, was it? The one who conjured you. And is in a lower level." "And there is possibly one other that you named, Uzenshell, but we may have already met that one." Chani thinks for a moment, then mentions to the other people in the group, "We should be sure of that though and clear this level."
I'm not overly concerned. I trust that the new version will be mostly additional options and additional flexibility. Like not having scale color required to match Draconic Exemplar choice (which almost certainly won't be color-based any more). As well as non-character-visible mechanics changes like being a dragon type instead of reptilian. There might be some new options that I would be jealous of not already having, but the existing character should be mostly unchanged. That is what I am anticipating, anyway. And if that isn't what happens, we have the option to run this campaign with the current Kobold lore and mechanics instead.
At the same time, I've felt sort of 'flat' portraying him, like I'm not quite 'gelling' with the character. That is similar to how I feel with Chani here. Though probably to a lesser extent. You might also take advantage of the option to relegate the character to NPC status along with Song-of-Air and Chani. ------ Speaking of which... I am debating between Gnome, Goblin, or Kobold. I'm on the fence between all three of those. So would any of the other characters engage better or worse with one of those ancestries? I'm also considering Magus unless someone wants to talk me out of that.
Combat does tend to slow down PbP a bit. Combat is the most common time when I can see that a game has 3 new posts, open it up, and realize that I still have nothing to do since it isn't my turn yet. I would suggest there being something to replace the combat with. Something to interact with and react to. That could be non-hostile NPCs if that is appropriate, interesting objects to look at and wonder about, or even skill challenges (I am a big fan of the Victory Point challenges) like door puzzles or terrain to navigate. Otherwise we are still just going from one combat to the next. That does come with the need for us as players to interact with and react to such things though. The GM will burn out rather quickly if a lot of work is put into making a room of a dungeon interactive and interesting and we just treat it like an empty room.
I might take you up on the offer of a change of character. Chani is a decent character, but isn't nearly as interactive or engaging as many that I have created.
Chani considers the remaining Xulgath spellcaster.
"Hrrm. Smelly and eldritch." He pulls a strip of pine bark from a pocket and coats his mace in the powder it creates when slipped through the hole in his amulet. Then Chani moves around behind Clover to get close enough to use the mace.
Though not very effectively.
Wand implement is basically a cantrip. 2-action to cast and does d4 damage that scales with level - which can be upgraded to focus spell levels of damage, but not every round. So it does make Thaumaturge into a pretty good switch hitter between ranged damage and melee. The biggest problem is that it doesn't trigger any of the Thaumaturge's applied weakness abilities. Exploit Vulnerability and Implement's Empowerment both only work with weapon and unarmed strikes - not flinging magic. Which seems like an oversight in the class design to a lot of us. But it is very clear and unambiguous as it is currently written.
Chani steps farther into the room to get behind his foe, then begins bludgeoning the xulgath with his empowered mace. "Hrr. They smell bad and are not very friendly."
Half my house has been sick with back to back illnesses and work has been intense. That... actually describes my situation pretty well too.
Chani grumbles at the pain, but the wound doesn't seem to have caused any debilitating injury.
Chani walks into the room on Clover's heels. He looks at the mutilated corpse for a couple of moments. A strange mix of emotions going through him. Fear that he very well could have ended up like this. Relief that he didn't - that he escaped and found his way to a better place. Anger that someone of his own species could be so cruel. Regret that he couldn't do more to help this particular person before they came to this horrific end. But he puts his musings away quickly and brings his amulet to bear. He pulls his gaze to one of the Xulgath warriors next to the altar and searches his pockets for a leaf or petal that resonates appropriately.
He draws his mace and watches silently for an opportunity to present itself.
"Hrrr," Chani chuffs. "We should take a few minutes at least to tend properly to our most wounded." He looks over at Rulean. "You got burned pretty badly there and I want to at least take a look at you."
"I would make no binding agreements," Chani suggests, also assuming that this is some kind of quasit or similar low ranking Devil, "just suggestions of expected behavior. We may decide of our own volition to go and defeat this Kalagash mentioned - especially if they are creating Devils. If that happens to also banish Givzib in the process, all the better. If it does not, then we can still reserve the right and obligation of destroying Givzib if necessary. And any further informaion that Givzib decides to offer voluntarily, and without expectation of compensation, to aid us in defeating Kalagash and causing Givzib to be banished instead of destroyed would also be for the better." His ears train on the sound of the Xulgath mage groaning. "It also appears that the other one is stirring."
Oops! Sorry. I didn't mean for him to not reveal his name. I edited his dialogue a few times and left off his name by accident. Yeah, not a problem. Chani is just really, really nervous around new people. It is nice to have an opportunity to let that show in-game.
Noticing that Rulean puts away his weapon, Chani does as well. He continues fidgeting with his amulet in his other hand though. His ears are now trained on the sound of the creature - giving a nice visual cue of where it is to everyone else. "Well, I would certainly not be opposed to more information and less fighting. I am Chani."
Chani is immediately distrustful of the voice since it doesn't identify itself. But only distrustful for the moment. He stays where he is, but does not lower his weapon and implement. Instead his ears twitch and swivel trying to locate the creature by sound.
Chani doesn't show much interest in the fallen enemy. Where he grew up, an enemy was an enemy and if you were fortunate enough to survive a fight against one, you definitely didn't help them afterwards. He instead turns towards the new voice, keeping his mace and amulet readied. "Who is it who speaks?"
Also with holidays, I am expecting that a lot of people aren't putting as much time and mental effort into these games as normal. Good to hear you are doing decently well.
Smoothest sailings to you, and may all your professionals have Assurance(medicine).
"Hrrr," Chani growls softly when the Xulgath mage vanishes. He swivels his ears searching for any noise that it makes.
When the mage reappears attacking Leaf-on-Wind, Chani whips around. His amulet lashes out some protective energy. "Cute trick," Chani whispers. He dashes toward and then past the Xulgath.
Getting past the Xulgath and opposite Leaf, he strikes with his own mace twice.
Chani flinches from the fire and manages to avoid some of it. Rulean goes down to the blast of fire. He sees Rulean go down and quickly pulls out a small flower. "Don't go anywhere. I'll tend to you better in a minute." He gently releases the flower and it drifts down through the air sedately and comes to rest on the Iruxi cleric. Chani then turns his attention back to the Xulgath against the far wall. "Now, about you." He stalks to the center of the room - which not coincidentally happens to put himself between the spellcaster and Rulean.
From what I can see, the difference between a PF2.4 Universalist Wizard and a PF2.5 Wizard of the School of Unified Magical Theory is: You are trained in all simple weapons.
As far as I can tell, everything else looks the same.
Chani watches concerned as the Xulgath moves in and starts attacking Clover. When it gets a solid hold with its mouth, he whips his amulet chain and sends a protective energy lattice to prevent the bite from sinking in quite so much. He looks down at his crossbow, then to the stone wall between him an the enemies. "Hrrrm. Can't do much with this from here." Chani sets the crossbow down, draws his mace, and squeezes past the others in the doorway to fight along side of Clover in the room.
He gives the brute a solid whack on the snout.
I may not be interested in the remaster on Ephie. Just the class itself, yes? Not the rest of the updated rules like how refocusing works, changes to the Disarm action or the existence of Reposition. How about the changes to cantrip damage?
Chani's ears droop a bit. "Unfortunate." He peeks around the corner of the door frame and inspects the two xulgaths there.
Then he presses himself against the wall next to the doorway.
Chani nods at Clover as she opens the door. He pokes his head into the room and takes both a look and a listen to see what is there. "Mrr. Hello?"
"I suppose that Taldane could be a difficult language to learn. Even if nearly everybody in this area of the world does so at a fairly young age." Chani ponders for a moment. "Though this wouldn't be my first choice of places to practice my lessons at. The smell is terrible, if nothing else."
Chani nods at the guards as they go past. He pays no mind to the scavengers starting their work on the corpses left behind. As long as they don't start swarming enough to become dangerous, they are actually quite useful. He heads to the door with Ephie and takes a good listen to see if he can detect anything.
Hrmm... I can't see any good reason to attack with the trident - or dagger - without having your wand also in hand. If I don't have my equipment in order, I usually set that to rights first. dice=◆◆Fling Magic (normal) DC 19 Basic Reflex]2d4 +4[/dice
dice=◆Exploit Vulnerability]1d20 +11[/dice dice=◆Trident Strike]1d20 +7[/dice
dice=Trident (+ I.E.)]1d8 +1 +2[/dice
Add opening and closing brackets where needed.
"Maybe we should go see if there's any sort of history written about them?" "I would come with you if you want. I'll see if I can find anything about the Aroden priests. If they are leaving ghosts behind, it would be good to know how to deal with them."
It has to work the same in both cases. Why? In one case you succeed at Exploit Vulnerability against one werewolf and can then use your Mortal Weakness against all of them for the rest of the battle - exactly as the rules say. In the other case, you critically fail at the Exploit Vulnerability against one werewolf. Why shouldn't you be allowed to retry the Exploit Vulnerability the next round? Why should the critical fail result be required to match the duration of a success result? The rules don't say that. And that is without even bringing up particular implements and their reactions or lack thereof. So am I confused on what you are presenting on the two cases you speak of?
"It would certainly be safer. I would prefer that."
“Tell me if it moves out of that alcove.” A bit frustrated at his lack of proper aim, Chani's disappointment is short-lived as he watches Clover take down the xulgath. "I don't think he will be moving anywhere any more unless we are the ones doing the moving of him." Chani looks over at Rulean with concern. "You don't look like you are doing well."
So we're basically getting a free bonus by hitting MW instead of PA, You might be. As a Chalice Implement Thaumaturge. With an Amulet Implement, I don't feel like it is giving me any bonus at all. That ability in Mortal Weakness could be removed entirely and it would make no difference at all.
'Strict RAW' isn't meant to be disparaging. Strict RAW, loose RAW, and houserules are all valid ways of playing the game. And it does feel like a wacky edge case because some of the implements are affected by this and others aren't. And that causes the case of having to choose between keeping Mortal Weakness that you already have or spending and action and a skill check to reattune to the next enemy. Honestly, I would be less miffed about it if I simply didn't have to roll for Exploit Vulnerability again. Spending the action seems fair. But risking a bad roll on Exploit Vulnerability while doing it seems punishing.
I'd probably rule that if you Exploit Vulnerability and find a mortal weakness (book example: werewolves and silver), then after you kill the first werewolf you are still "benefiting from Exploit Vulnerability" (the text under Amulet) because your damage bonus will apply to the rest, so therefore your amulet's going to work against the rest of them. That's my alternative ruling above. The strict RAW ruling is that the second werewolf isn't your original Exploit Vulnerability target. So while you still benefit from Mortal Weakness against that second werewolf, you can't use your Amulet against its attacks.
You could heighten the Restore Senses spell to rank 3, but you would still need a success on your skill check in order to do the counteract. At rank 2 Restore Senses you would also accomplish the counteract with a success on the skill check. The benefit is if you can outrank the effect. If you heighten Restore Senses to rank 4, then you can accomplish a counteract with a failure on the skill check.
In your sentence, I have to assume that the 'they' that you reference is the Magma Scorpions that I presented in my example. Which are weak to cold damage, not fire damage. ----- My reasoning is that this scenario is rather an edge case. So far, it could have come up in one of my battles - but the circumstances of the combat made it not actually happen. The rest of the party defeated the non-targeted identical creature while I was fighting my target alone. Mostly as a distraction and enemy splitting tactic. So I don't see any need to nerf Mortal Weakness or Sympathetic Vulnerabilities as a side effect of having an implement that could possibly target more than one enemy in very rare circumstances. And on the other hand, I don't plan to ever spend a feat slot on Sympathetic Vulnerabilities because there is no point. I am going to be switching Exploit Vulnerability target anyway to keep my Amulet available. The feat is completely worthless to me. As is the multiple target ability of Mortal Weakness. Neither of those are worth mentioning for a Thaumaturge that uses an implement with a reaction that affects only the Exploit Vulnerability target.
You don't forget they are weak to fire, you just can't attune your attacks to be fire that instant. I think you crit-failed your Exploit Vulnerability roll. And none of that is addressing the feels-bad nature of having to forego the benefits of Mortal Weakness against multiple of the same enemy or how it devalues Sympathetic Vulnerabilities for Amulet, Weapon, Bell implements, but not for Chalice, Lantern, or Mirror.
You're not forgetting what their weaknesses actually are. But you need to reattune your attacks to a new opponent since the previous one is dead, thereby ending any attunement you had to them. However you describe it in-game, the point is that I don't have to do that normally. Only if I want to continue using my Amulet. If I succeed at Exploit Vulnerability initially and don't spend an action on Exploit Vulnerability after the first target dies, I can keep using Mortal Weakness to trigger cold weakness against the entire group of Magma Scorpions. But if I want to use my Amulet on any more than the first one of them, then I have to use an action and risk dropping down to only Personal Antithesis levels of weakness (or even nothing if I crit-fail the roll).
In the game that I am in, the GM ruled the same way. Which is fine - no complaints. But there is room for speculation. It feels strange to have to choose one individual target arbitrarily for Exploit Vulnerability when all of the enemies in the combat will be affected by Mortal Weakness. It leaves a very strange edge case when that one primary target dies. Do I use Exploit Vulnerability again so that I have a new primary target that I can use my Amulet reaction on - and risk failing at the roll and suddenly forgetting what these creatures Mortal Weakness is? Or do I instead continue using the Mortal Weakness that I already know - and don't have to spend an action - but then lose out on being able to use my Amulet? The alternative reasoning is that 'the target of your Exploit Vulnerability' is any creature that would be affected by your Exploit Vulnerability. Whether that is because the creatures are identical and you are using Mortal Weakness against all of them, or because you have Sympathetic Vulnerabilities and can affect multiple creatures more easily.
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