ahh quick to label a person a racist I see when there is a dialogue going on. Nice, I'll keep that in mind in the future. Just label a person racist cause we know that term gets passed around like witch in the 1600s or the proverbial scarlet letter.
SO when somebody here disagrees, let's label them a racist or some other name and move them in that "kind" of batch grouping to minimize and shut out any questions or dialogue they might want to have.
When did I ever talk about the mindless slaughter of anyone or anything in my dialogue here....please go back. Am I critical of traditional monsters and humanoids all being playable ...yes, based on the Golarion history and lore.
But as I read the comments to infer that because I disagree with the decision being made that I am also somehow racist or even something worse I disagree and you can go ahead and message me and I am happy to exchange phone numbers and we can have a real adult dialogue on this.
Perhaps Paizo needs to just create a whole new campaign world that shatters the paradign that makes the world more inclusive with all these comments mentioned.
Please explain how all the old fantasy tropes are racist as hell?
Keftiu, and what do you think my politics are? Is that what they call a red herring when having a dialogue on a subject, trying to divert attention away from the real subject? You know nothing about who I am.
Rysky, yes it does have me up in arms because Paizo could have chosen a higher path in my opinion, and missed an opportunity to use a fantasy setting to show how truly evil it is, but I guess it's just too tough and ugly so we just won't go forward and talk about it anymore, that to me is a recon. Glad to see you want to so easily cancel me out for my opinion.
This speaks to total political correctness and is plain stupid. Canceling my subscriptions to lost omens and considering if I should cash in my VO card too.
Plain stupid and bad call. Real evil exists and I have seen it from real personal experiences around the world including parents trying to sell off their daughters. Slavery is a part of our real-world history and it still exists today. It's a horrid, evil, despicable thing.
Paizo Execs, think I am BSing you on the above, IM or email me, happy to share those stories that all occurred in the 21st Century to include one modern industrialized nation-state.
Paizo could have used this opportunity to write stories that show just how freaking bad and inhumane and dehumanizing slavery can be; instead, nope we are just gonna recon it all away. Totally missed the opportunity.
Hobgoblins, Orcs, Goblins and other ancestries are now all playing nice. What's next? Whispering Tyrant reconciliation and vampire appreciation week?
Bad call Paizo. You are losing my business and maybe my volunteerism also.
I recognize that this is quite emotional for many; I do not know many of the folks personally involved, but in the business world, some industries can be very draconian when employees do not produce or don't row in the same direction as the CEO, board and the managers want. It is sad, but sometimes nice people get fired because they don't produce, or don't share the boat the same vision as their boss. I have seen it happen and it is gut-wrenching.
I suspect that this issue is or will quickly move into the realm of labor law attornies.
I recommend using some caution with the news of all of this. I do not think any of us have all the facts, nor are we likely to have all the facts on this issue for a long time coming. I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye.
If the allegations are true, then Paizo should announce the steps and efforts they will take to resolve this. If the allegations are unfounded, then Paizo needs to lay out their case.
I suspect that perhaps Tonya being appointed into her new position might be able to help or more positively influence the situation.
What I am not understanding is how some folks are getting physical copies of SoM, or the APG in the case of last year ahead of release dates.
I can appreciate and support VA's getting copies of products ahead of time, and I can see where in some cases online retail outlets might ship early due to unreliability of the post office at times, but if my local game store, amazon, or whoever can get me a copy of the book before Paizo can directly with a discount normally (and this has happened several times I have observed in the last 3 years) after the release date why should I subscribe or ever order direct unless I cannot get it anyplace else?
That isn't a question that has a rules answer. The rules say how much damage it takes to kill you instantly so that hero points can't save you. They don’t address an amount of damage counting as the body being destroyed. Outside of a specific effect like Disintegrate addressing the case explicitly, that's in the GM's court.
Speaking from sadly real personal experience I can tell you that the body remains pretty much intact after impact even at altitudes at 10,000ft AGL with rig and equipment. Since I don't see a RAW, I recommend going with what happens in reality. Your real challenge, in reality, would not be is the body destroyed on impact(yes you do bounce at least once) but in attempting to locate the body and accounting for winds, lateral drift, and time it takes to locate and find the body(making sure critters or something doesn't eat it).
I appreciate the history and the geography in this volume quite a bit and I suspect there should be some additional forthcoming APs and scenarios to help solidify this lore.
I cannot help but think that volumes on Tien and Arcadia are forthcoming in the future and I am curious as to how this all ties into things on Avistan and the Whispering Tyrant whom I see as the greatest existential threat to all things living currently.
It’s a mixed bag and money can make people do and expect certain things. If you do charge there needs to be clear expectations on both sides. What am I paying for, what am I expecting out of this, what is the money paying for.
GMing takes a lot of time and considerable resources. With the pandemic and going to a VTT there are additional expenses. R20 you have to buy the books all over in some cases because to do everything by hand, is a nightmare. The other virtual tables come withstand cost also.
The prep work and cost for a regular live paper and pencil game is less For PCs, a VTT game takes only a little more effort. For a GM it’s been a steep learning curve for me with the real life things that we each have to manage. .
I’m biting the bullet to keep the Community alive in my area but It gets frustrating when nobody else wants to step up and help out.
Hmm, I would recommend raising up your AC. Pooling money to get you into full plate might be a good team effort. Champion reactions are critical. In playing my Champion-Paladin I selected Ranged Reprisal which I found to be very useful with Retributive Strike. Trained in Medicine and Battle Medicine Skill Feat work well too. I don't carry a shield, but I do wear full plate with a bastard sword for flexibility. I also carry a short sword and light mace in case I need an agile weapon to increase my chances of hitting my enemies.
Something to consider, but what is the healing capability of the rest of the party?
Teamwork goes a long way with everyone knowing what their fellow party members strengths and vulnerabilities are. As always, you can't tactically use what worked in 1E/3.5 in 2E.
I would say that things are more challenging in PF2 and that is a good thing. I am not a mechanical metric kind of person, but it feels more balanced and that if you don't play smart you could get your proverbial clock cleaned.
You have to play and work smart as a team in PF2. The min/max power builds are gone as are the scene and show stealers.
I was critical of Paizo wanting to change to PF2, as I felt and still fill PF1 is a great system and game, but I really get all the changes and why we have PF2 and I really like PF2 as it makes Pathfinder I think stand more independently on its own two legs.
HLO works great for character generation, but after that its been ever frustrating with fees and and more fees.
To top it off, this weekend, I needed to pull something up on a PC I as playing and the lag was so bad, it slowed the entire game down. I will be going with Paizo pre-made character sheets from here on out. HLO needs to get faster and I want it like HLC and be able to download it. If LDW decides not to do that, and since I am getting double tapped for a subscription and fees for new additional content, I highly doubt I will continue with it. 2nd Edition is simplified enough that with time, I wont need it.
To me Pathfinder is the best networked and resourced RPG with its organized play. Its the best d20 system out there and it allows players tremendous freedom to create the characters that they want to play. Likewise, GMs have considerable latitude in how they run a campaign or scenario.
The game is a supported by a company that actually seeks the input of its customers/fans. I have seen this with the 2E PLAYTEST. I never felt or saw that with other companies and their games. I am sure there are some out there that do, but I have not seen it.
Regardless of what 2E Pathfinder finally evolves into, I got to have my vote and participate in it and be a part of the process.
Well, I agree we can find the pieces to the puzzle and from there we can use some deductive processes but at least in my profession and professional life you usually want as a company or an organization to publish and post it someplace, or in multiple places in an official capacity such as printed products, websites, facebook, and other media and communication platforms that official represent the company. It adds clarity and singularity of purpose. It takes out the guess work and speculation.
Right now, I bet a lot of think or may even feel we know and understand the goals and intent and what that endstate may be, but without Paizo putting and communicating it all together ....and then quarterly restating that or adjusting the Vision, intent, overarching goals, etc...we don't know for sure.
Large corporations do this, Government does this, Universities do this all in a single consolidated manner. Heck I do it with my kids and family, so why cannot Paizo? I am not bashing Paizio, I am just recommending that if they did this, it would be very helpful for us to help them. If I did not like Pathfinder and or Paizo I would have stopped after buying the current PF1E Core Rulebook and moved on to a different game system.
gwynfrid,while i understand your point i do not agree with it from the stand point that neither answer is complete and why cannot it be officially stated here by the leadership of Paizo? That one sentence on page four doesn't go far enough. It does not get us all playing on the same page of music. It might for you if you are are more involved in this than I am , and I am betting you are, but for me, the little guy in all of this, it is not.
Why cannot it be stated completely and in an unambiguous manner that address the concerns that are not only stated here but in many other posts? I am not the only one asking these questions here or in other circles such as the circles of folks I game with, FB, PnP, etc.
rknop I get just a Paizo link also. Captain Morgan did you incorrectly post the link?
If the questions have been answered great, but why are they not readily available here for us to read on the main Paizo website? You think somebody from Paizo would at least post a sticky.
Its not clear to me, nor is clear to the other Pathfinder players at the hobby shop where I play Pathfinder at, that hosts about 24-28 PFS players 2-3 times per week, on what I mentioned in my initial post.
We currently have one group doing the playtest, and maybe a second kicking off.
We are hosting a Pathfinder Gaming Extravaganza in a few weeks, non-stop Pathfinder from Friday afternoon till Sunday night. All the seats/spots are taken for a total of 22 scenarios. ZERO PF2 playtest interest. ZERO...and I would be be happy play a PF2 scenario or two and yes running PF2 scenarios was on the table. A great opportunity to run the play test and zero Fan interest.
There is a communication problem with the Franchise and the Fans in my opinion.
The endstate, mission, vision, why and intent are not clear in my opinion or in the players at my local hobby shop and would be extremely helpful.
Even if its something dire (God I am hoping it is not) like, "Hey guys, Paizo goes bankrupt in 5 years if we can't retool and reinvent Pathfinder based on X, Y, and Z."
There is always risk in an new endeavor, and that is true for PF2
I do not think any of us know completely for sure why Paizo is taking such a completely different approach to Pathfinder and I did read all the playtest FAQs. It would be helpful if Paizo could share a bit more with us as to the "why" this is happening, and to "what" endstate and direction they are hoping to achieve.
Is there something more to the situation that can be said that would help us?
In my profession for nearly 30 years, the best results always occurred when everyone understood the mission/purpose and the commanders intent of what they were doing. If the two things I just stated where understood and things went to hell in a hand basket at 0200 in complete chaos, everyone still understood what needed to happen to get the job done. Call it a shared vision if you will.
I feel like we are a bit in the dark on this. Right now, I am playtesting and commenting on things and posting potential solutions but without knowing what the intent, vision and endstate is, it is very hard to be as effective as possible.
I love PF1, and if folks have read any of my posts you will know that there are some things I like about PF2, but I am not sold or on board yet with PF2. IF what I am asking above can be answered, it would be helpful to me in assisting more with the playtest and would dispel a lot of rumors, myths, hand wringing and get more of us on board and focussed on what the future holds.
Well I am doing the playtest in order to see the strengths and weaknesses as currently updated and laid out.
Right now I see more weaknesses than strengths. I will admit that right off the bat annoucing that none of my oganized player characters would transfer or can be converted over really ticked me off.
I dont normally play a lot, but I spent a chunk of money on books and stuff in order to play and to have fully legit characters at any table to include GENCON. All that progress, gone. The ability to play characters designed and see what they can at higher levels while participating in soome awesome story arcs-gone.
Creativity sacrificed for game mechanics and an entirely new system that at its present design doesn’t have the brilliant expandibility and creativity that 1E has.
One of the things I learned a few business courses and Lean Six Sigma and 3PL is what the customer wants matters. As a customer i didn’t want a whole new system, a whole new series of books to purchase, a whole new game to learn and all the costs associate iin buying all new material and having to wait years for it.
What I hoped for was 1E updated, a tuned up version like 3.5 was for 3.0.
I will give positive critism and ideas for improving 2E as it may be the only Pathfinder we have in the long haul.
Perhaps 2E will evolve into great game with our feedback. Perhaps in a year or two we will 2E and Pathfinder Classic.
I appreciate the hard work and investment that has been spent into PF2E, however
I like the action economy, but other than that, I am not sure what PF2E really does so much better that makes me want to love it and buy it over PF1E.
It feels a bit like to me when Coca-Cola changed its recipe to New Coke. A lot of consumers asked "why", Coca-Cola said"trust us, this is way better than the current recipe" only to learn after 3-6 months that consumers hated it and came out with Classic Coke, which was the old original recipe they were previously using.
Did anyone at Paizo "Red Team" PF2E with an outside group and use design methodology to make sure that the problems with PF1E were properly identified and challenged so that real viable options, to include the creation of PF2E was the best option to fix the perceived problems.
After making characters and playtesting the first three Doomsday Dawn Scenarios I honestly feel PF2E presents more problems than in it "fixes".
PF2E is a good game, but it is not a great game like PF1E.
I spent a lot of money on PF1E books, hero lab, time, and while nobody says I have to convert to PF2E if you want me to convert, PF2E has to be a superior product to PF1E.
I just do not see where that much was really needing to fixed or where PF2E is going to pull in thousands of new players.
Is it too late to hope that PF1E gets rebranded Pathfinder Classic?
I did my first playtest today as a Paladin.
Thee are my my observations and opinions. Before I say anything, I respect and admire the creative team at Paizo and Pathfinder I know you all got to be thick skinned when you take something you invested three years in and just sort of lay it out there for critical comment. My initial graduate papers were peer reviewed and contained so much red ink on them, I had to struggle at first to find the white spots on the paper, so I total emphasize with you guys.
I made several characters for this scenario and it took me 3 hours for the first and then about an hour and a half for the other three once I learned the new character building system.
During the adventure as a Paladin, I was knocked down three times to zero hit points. Critical success on the monsters is dangerous and was achieved several times. Our party had a Cleric, Paladin, Sorcerer and a Rogue. During the whole scenario, none of us were able to achieve a critical success at any time.
The party was in a near total party kill scenario three times. If not for Hero Points, it would have been TPK at the Paharasma fountain, the goblin cave and against the Drakus (hobgoblin/bugbear changing blood sucking thing). We ran out of healing after each of those major fights and had to retreat back into town to rest, heal and recuperate.
I used the Athletics skill to force open the door in the final encounter. ONe of the things that did not make sense was why is there an armor check penalty to force open a door? IN the minds of the GM and the whole party, this is just a strength, mass and a bit of knowledge on where to slam into the door and bust it open. Armor should not be a detractor and perhaps the additional bulk actually a benefit. Having forced doors open in real life wearing real body armor that extra 35 pounds came in handy actually. My recommendation is minimally remove the armor check penalty.
I did not run out of resonance points or spell slots but I ran out of spell points three times three times.
I used my Hero Point and each of us did as we each were at one time or another in a various stage of dying.
I do like the action economy, but it is not perfect. Combat encounter time was the same, but as we learned with each encounter it did speed up.
Shields, I get the concept now and its cool, but the amount of damage a shield can absorb verse the cost in giving up retributive strike or another action needs to be critically looked at. I had my shield raised and blocked a hit, absorbing 5 damage and still took 10 damage. My recommendation is increase the number of dents a shield can take as the about of damage it can absorb. I would recommend Caesar's Gallic Wars for some historical examples.
I like what can be done with Sorcerer and Paladin Classes. Lots of freedom to be creative and hopefully more so in the 2E final version and follow on publications.
Spell Casting, based on my initial concerns in reading the rule book and this scenario, it really feels nerfed. The Alchemist would have been severely handicap and our Sorcerer was limited in effectiveness. Worse, in my opinion, he clearly felt of little over all use to the party as was reduced to holding up the light source and casting cantrips only to very limited use.
Concentration checks, while I suspect they were removed to make things simple, I think they have a place in the game. I want to say either the cleric or the sorcerer was casting a spell and got hit, and lost the spell.
Based on three near TPK situations, it is very easy to die in 2E. With spell casters nerfed and missile combat I feel needing to be better worked out I am wondering at this point how you do not have to rest after every or every other fight if you only have one cleric in the party.
Potions, I do not get why it takes a resonance point to consume one. If I misread the rules, I apologize , but in my mind, a potion is a total self contained, idiot/infantry proof item that by design anyone can and should be able to use. The resonance in my mind is in the bottle/vial when it was crafted and why you pay out the nose for such items. I recommend not charging resonance for potions and potentially looking at financial cost or bulk as a way to avoid somebody from buying them by the case load like cheep beer on a Friday night.
That all said, I am not sure at this point if the 1.0 vs. the 2.0 game mechanics is any simpler. Both require a person to read and study and friendly folks at your table to help you sort it out.
While I do like the direction of the Paladin and Sorcerer classes, I do feel that the what you can do to diversify and make your character unique is presently more limited. The options and the ability to make a tailored fit character does not seem to be there. I hope I am wrong, but right now, I am not seeing it.
PnP play under 1.0 seems to work great, I have loved it, and it is how I do 75% of my Pathfinder RPG pursuits. With the Action Economy, I am not sure how this translates and I have not seen many folks post on this as a concern.
I spent a lot of money on Pathfinder 1.0 books and products. I do love 1.0 and I am still scratching my head while a lot of things could not have been addressed in organized play supplement or even a updated core rule book. I cannot help feel like that we might...might...be throwing out the baby with the bathwater and while we have new game with mechanics will we be crating as many if not not more problems down the road.
I'm a casual player, I have only a handful of characters that I have invested a lot into creatively let along almost all of the books in one or more formats. I've played RPGs since I was 10 and luckily with with one of my best friends and groomsman to this very day. I don't always get a lot of time to play when I have to balance a job, my spouse and her career, and three kids. Gear, equipment, even boons, I am not attached too, but to say that there is currently not a place for those characters or some established conversion rule for them in 2.0 and that for organized play I have to start over, that the story cannot continue or carry over into the 2E world, no matter how great we make 2E, may be the single largest reason that when 2E becomes the only officially supported and updated version of Pathfinder, I stay with 1.0 and ride it out in to the sunset.
Back to the original topic, PF 2E is hollow and falls flat. I hope Paizo is reading and listening.
I have 2E and I am playtesting it but I don't see where PF 2E builds from PF 1E and quite frankly I don't see where PF Organized Play could not have updated changes like Hero points, traits, Classes authorized/archetypes, etc.
In fact I think there is gonna be a huge problem of making all classes too similar and that min/max stat blocks and having the correct build of each class will quickly be figured out.
While wands and magic and a few things seemed to irk GMs now all I need to do to have a successful party is have a party of 3-4 Clerics and have each one take a fighter, wizard, rogue, archetype feat. It looks cool now perhaps, but it will become bland very quickly and what it might have been trying to fix will actually cause more problems in the long run.
I am a casual gamer, I spent a lot of money acquiring the Pathfinder 1E books, and for the first few years I was a PnP player but loved the idea I could take that character to GenCon, and sit in the Paizo room and play that character with a bunch of strangers. I actually did this at GenCon 2015 and 2016.
While I suspect/hope we can do the same with 2E, what disappoints me is that all the investment in building books and aps, in roleplaying and books, time it took will no longer be supported at the major conventions after August 2019. I don't have the time and resources to just start over for something that I see right now as unnecessary, does not "wow" me, and quite frankly feels hollow and flat.
The is Pathfinder for Lazy GMs and PCs with attention spans of attention of a may fly.
In a single year, every I invested in will become increasingly obsolete every year.
Multi Classing is dead as we know it
Character unique customization is gone.
Half Orc and Half Elf not worth playing.
Scores of editing errors in the book. Does the editor play pathfinder? Go look at the sorceror Draconic bloodline and tell me how to figure out damage and abilities. HLO fortunately solves that question but I didn’t pay to pre order all this stuff, to the still not defective my printer copies, to have a subcription based 2nd party app a sweet my questions.
I think I like so far how combat will conducted, but why you could not incorporate this into 1.0 makes me wonder.
Wands and other items over use? Why not look at CR ratings and perhaps make a rule change where you have to be a caster of that spell type to use or something down those lines.
Magic pretty nerfed up.
Sorcerer bloodlines are a cool adjustment.
Overall unless the play test at my hobby shop shows me something I am missing I think while well intended 2E falls flat as is and the coup de grace is not being allowed to convert characters.
Hello and I realize I am joining this a bit late. I've Played RPGs for 35 years and one of the things that drew me to Pathfinder was the 3.5 rules set up and Organized Play. I have never seen such a net worked game.
The ability for my best best friend I and to take our post and play characters to Gen Con, and have them accepted at any table was massively impressive. After one year of Pathfinder, I was hooked.
That said, I am the casual gamer, I cannot play like I used to in high school, college, deployed and before kids.
I would caution against a total clean slate and total restart with 2nd Edition. While I am optimistic that many of changes will be great for mechanics and spirit of the game, a lot of hard work, time and investment went into where our group of 35-45 something "old dudes" is at. I am not sure I, or the core group I hang out with and play want to start over completely.
While I recognize that some business decisions have to be made, I encourage the leadership at Paizo to conduct a survey of registers registered Pathfinder society players to get the wildest possible feelings, ideas and opinions on this subject.
TSR did not do this with 2nd Edition D&D to my knowledge, or with 4th Edition which in my humble opinion turned a lot of folks off. I thought 2nd and 4th sucked and I wont bother to look at 5th while there is Pathfinder.
If the larger player base does not feel that they at least had a chance to voice or vent their concerns, 2nd Edition might be slow going at first.
Replay I do not see the harm in replaying. Sure, you might have a few spoilers, but its still fun and the dice always get a vote too!
Rewards and Rebuilds I recognize that not everything will translate, but recommend a conversion system be developed and actually put in the final approved 2nd Edition core rule books. Boons could be tough. Cosmetic ones like different races and minor things should be pretty easy. Things that give significant player advantages, perhaps not. I do think that rebuilds should be allowed. If I have a 8th Level Magus or Fighter, I should have the option to rebuild that character under the new rules. I really don't care about equipment and gear, give me a bag of gold and my prestige points and let do what I can to replace, etc.
I don't have all the answers, but I hope my recommendations are at least considered.
Male Human Taldan evoker 7 NG Init +3; Senses Perception +10 Defense AC 18, touch 12, flat-footed 17 hp 58 Fort +5, Ref +4, Will +7
Ahhhh ha a message I bet. I bet it's a map or a piece of a map, or perhaps a princess in distress asking some old dead general for help to go on some damned fool's idea of a crusade.
Male Human Magus/5 Base Atk +3; AC 21, HP 47, INIT+7, PER +4, CMB +5; CMD 16 Feats: Blind Fighting, Combat Casting, Toughness, Spell Combat,Spellstrike, Acane Pool, Improved Initiative
despite my pure astonishment that I have missed the skeleton, I do so in such a way as to look exceptionally skilled in the art of "whiffing" while muttering a few hyphenated choice curse words liked together that would make even the saltiest dwarven weapons instructor blush like a Vestal Virgin
Male Human Magus/5 Base Atk +3; AC 21, HP 47, INIT+7, PER +4, CMB +5; CMD 16 Feats: Blind Fighting, Combat Casting, Toughness, Spell Combat,Spellstrike, Acane Pool, Improved Initiative
oh....well....I guess that makes me the diplomat , because we all know nothing works diplomacy like the pointy end of a sword with followed up with a bit of the arcane. Well I will give it a shot
I walk forward cautiously to the bent over gill and I get to about 10 feet from him, I stop, presenting what I hope is a pleasant smile on my face as I remove my helmet and cradle it under my left arm, allowing my right hand to still be free in order to draw my blade or even launch a spell if need be. I then address the being politely, first using the common tongue and then using Celestrial, Elven, and Draconic in that order if I do not get a response.
Pax Deorum....peace of the the gods be upon you and I apologize for such an appearance as we are, but we did run into a particular savage beast which has forced us to seek shelter here.
I look on at the gillman while also being aware as possible of where the rather large centipedes are at...sidestepping them if possible...acknowledging Isador's comments and deliberately not looking at where my fellow compatriots are at, lest I give away their movements if the amphibious being makes the unfortunate, for him, decision that I could best be whale food for his pet Orca. Thankfully my father was a architect and not a fisherman or whaler