PF1E and PF2E is the Coke vs New Coke to end up with Classic Coke / Classic Pathfinder?


General Discussion

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Gamers/Friends/Paizo

I appreciate the hard work and investment that has been spent into PF2E, however
I am still trying to figure out what the big selling point for PF2E will be over PF1E.

I like the action economy, but other than that, I am not sure what PF2E really does so much better that makes me want to love it and buy it over PF1E.

It feels a bit like to me when Coca-Cola changed its recipe to New Coke. A lot of consumers asked "why", Coca-Cola said"trust us, this is way better than the current recipe" only to learn after 3-6 months that consumers hated it and came out with Classic Coke, which was the old original recipe they were previously using.

Did anyone at Paizo "Red Team" PF2E with an outside group and use design methodology to make sure that the problems with PF1E were properly identified and challenged so that real viable options, to include the creation of PF2E was the best option to fix the perceived problems.

After making characters and playtesting the first three Doomsday Dawn Scenarios I honestly feel PF2E presents more problems than in it "fixes".

PF2E is a good game, but it is not a great game like PF1E.

I spent a lot of money on PF1E books, hero lab, time, and while nobody says I have to convert to PF2E if you want me to convert, PF2E has to be a superior product to PF1E.

I just do not see where that much was really needing to fixed or where PF2E is going to pull in thousands of new players.

Is it too late to hope that PF1E gets rebranded Pathfinder Classic?


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I agree with you 100%. The main benefits of PF2 is action economy for martials, bulk and also the downtime rules for crafting. They work really well. Class creation and growth, spells outside of healing, ancestry feats, resonance, skills and non-weapon/non-armor magic items all perform poorly in the playtest and are extremely unappealing to me. I am also mixed on monster lethality. I do like that monsters hit more often but I feel that their initiatives and saving throws are way too high as is their armor class. I stopped playing PF1 because rolling 2dD6+45 was not appealing to me. I was more excited about rolling 4D12+13 since it would make my greatsword swing matter much more. But the pigeon holing and weak class features of most classes do not really appeal to me. I want heroic characters and PF2 makes me feel like an average Joe


The downtime rules for crafting (and other downtime rules) really turn me off PF2. They don't allow a level 1 PC to feel like they're good at anything.


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I feel like with PF2E there will be a bunch of new problems. Some things work better and a lot (really a lot) is even worse. I don't care about game stability when I have unappealing and boring class powers and feats.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Not everything in the play test will be in the final product and not everything in the book will be in the play test.

Personally, I'll report the issues as they come up and I'm confident Paizo will make changes as needed.

At the same time I don't plan on abandoning all those cool story lines, classes and archetypes from pathfinder classic.


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4th Ed is often referred to as the New Coke of D&D. The only thing is, with New Coke, when they rereleased Classic Coke, they were both on the shelves for awhile, but then New Coke disappeared completely (at least in the UK).

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Well I am doing the playtest in order to see the strengths and weaknesses as currently updated and laid out.

Right now I see more weaknesses than strengths. I will admit that right off the bat annoucing that none of my oganized player characters would transfer or can be converted over really ticked me off.

I dont normally play a lot, but I spent a chunk of money on books and stuff in order to play and to have fully legit characters at any table to include GENCON. All that progress, gone. The ability to play characters designed and see what they can at higher levels while participating in soome awesome story arcs-gone.

Creativity sacrificed for game mechanics and an entirely new system that at its present design doesn’t have the brilliant expandibility and creativity that 1E has.

One of the things I learned a few business courses and Lean Six Sigma and 3PL is what the customer wants matters. As a customer i didn’t want a whole new system, a whole new series of books to purchase, a whole new game to learn and all the costs associate iin buying all new material and having to wait years for it.

What I hoped for was 1E updated, a tuned up version like 3.5 was for 3.0.

I will give positive critism and ideas for improving 2E as it may be the only Pathfinder we have in the long haul.

Perhaps 2E will evolve into great game with our feedback. Perhaps in a year or two we will 2E and Pathfinder Classic.

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