Witness the God of War!

Friday, June 21, 2024

I’ve known Gorum longer than anyone else. Although he’s changed and developed in ways I never considered, he was created for my homebrew setting back in the very early 90s, as I was rounding out my campaign setting in preparation for a big campaign I was going to run for several friends in my college dorm.

He wasn’t the first, second, or third divinity I created for my setting (those honors go, in order, to Yamasoth, Treerazer, and Desna), but he was part of the larger group of two-dozen or so gods I invented once the world-building bug bit me. I wanted a deity in my setting who was someone like Crom, someone non-clerics like Conan could pray to or curse to before, during, and after a fight. Unlike Crom and Conan, though, I wanted this god of war to be fully armored and armed in iron and steel. And so the idea of a god who presents as an animated suit of armor was born into my setting.

When it came time to build Golarion, we were very pressed for time. We had to simultaneously close out the magazines and then jump right into producing our own RPG content without skipping a month, due to the realities of the subscription-based promises and methods Paizo had been built on. It’s very difficult to build an adventure in a world without proper nouns. You can make that up as you go, but that runs the risk of rushing an important job. So as I was put in charge of the Pathfinder Adventure Path line, I made the decision to draw from my then 15-year-old setting for much of that lore. Which included the deities.

We wanted to do 20 “core deities” from the start because it was a fun number to aim at (this being a d20 game), but also because that allowed us to create two different types of deities for each of the 9 alignments, with 2 left over to pad the numbers (one of those went to Neutral to create a “best choice” deity for druids, and one of those went to Lawful Good to create a “best choice” deity for paladins).

Gorum ended up making the jump from my homebrew at that stage into the public by being one of the two chaotic neutral deities chosen, and for the next 17 years, he would serve as Golarion’s god of war.

: Gorum lays waste to vast swathes of puny mortals with but a swing of his mighty blade

Illustration by Maichol Quinto


Roleplaying the Grim Reaper

When we decided it was time to shake things up in the Lost Omens setting, the death of a god made the most sense. We’d done this at the dawn of the campaign with the death of Aroden—even though his death took place a century earlier, it still was a huge part of our world’s lore. But killing off someone no one knows about is very different than killing off someone who some folks have known for 17 years (or in my case, closer to 34 years). We had a lot of discussions about which of the core 20 deities we wanted the metaphorical Grim Reaper to visit. We didn’t want to kill off an evil deity, since that would have less emotional impact, but we also didn’t want to take out a deity we had strong plans for in the future, or whose role in the setting was significantly load bearing.

In my homebrew in the early 2000s, I killed off Abadar as part of a plot where the world was slipping into entropy and the PCs had to step up to help prevent more gods from being killed, and he was thus my first nomination. But he’s also someone who’s a handy non-evil villain to have around, and beyond that, he had a role in the future in Starfinder. Other folks suggested other deities, but in the end, we all settled on Gorum. Here was a god who wasn’t evil, who was part of the core 20 but didn’t have a particularly strong role in the lore, didn’t represent a specific ancestry or character class, but who was still popular enough that his death wouldn’t feel hollow. It would still sting. It would still be noticeable. And it would absolutely change the setting—especially when we decided that the death of the god of war wasn’t going to make war go away, but instead let war run rampant.

llustration by Kendal Gates : Gorum in his full glory

llustration by Kendal Gates


Witness Him!

Unlike Aroden’s death, which was and will remain shrouded in mystery, we aren’t being coy about Gorum’s death. The specific methods by which he dies will be spelled out in print, and your PCs will be able to take part in multiple adventures impacted by the event—an event known as Godsrain, and which begins a period historians will refer to as the War of Immortals. We’ll have information about what your clerics of Gorum can do next, particularly in adventures where the event takes place after you’ve already potentially started playing clerics of Gorum. We hope the specific details of how and why will resonate with everyone in the same way they do with me and everyone on the editorial team at Paizo!

During PaizoCon last month, we revealed more details about where and when Gorum dies, as well as how you can read those details as a GM, how your PCs can take part in those details as they play out in the course of play, or how you can experience them in the form of fiction. Those who want light spoiler information about where you can find out more, read on. Those who want to be surprised about the event when it happens in your game—I’ve already said too much!

SPOILERS

Gorum’s death is described in detail in the upcoming standalone adventure, Prey for Death. Where that event takes place during the adventure, I won’t say more now, but GMs who read the adventure will find that information front and center. How much the players learn, and when that learning happens, depends on the choices they make during play, of course!

The Curtain Call Adventure Path will be starting in a world before these events take place, but by the end of that three-part, high-level campaign, Gorum will be dead. While the direct impact of this will be less than it was in Prey for Death, other developments rising from the event will be on full display. Again, the timing of where and when Godsrain falls during Curtain Call isn’t something we’ve revealed, but it will become obvious once the first volume (and its short summary of the campaign’s three chapters) is published.

After that, War of Immortals presents additional information about the rules involved with these events, Lost Omens Divine Mysteries spends some time exploring the way the gods of the setting are changing, and the novel Godsrain chronicles some in-world fiction involving some familiar iconic heroes as they experience certain developments caused by the death of Our Lord in Iron.

Illustration by Mark Tarrisse: mortals look to the sky and witness Gorum’s death

Illustration by Mark Tarrisse


After these, we’re not simply going to let the topic go, of course. The Godsrain may be over, but the War of Immortals is only beginning. And while we’ll soon reveal the exact event in which Gorum dies in print for you to read, there are other new mysteries that event sets up. Mysteries we have plans for. These events—Gorum’s death and other still-unrevealed-complications that death creates—will continue affecting the Lost Omens setting from this point forward, much in the same way that the re-introduction of the runelords in the very first Pathfinder Adventure Path continues to have ripple effects, the closing of the Worldwound allows for the exploration of new stories, and the secession of Ravounel sets up brand new narratives to experience. The War of Immortals is larger in scope and scale than all of those, though, make no mistake. You’ll see the aftermath of the Godsrain play out in the Triumph of the Tusk Adventure Path later this year, and it has some ripple effects that help kick things off in next year’s just-announced Spore War Adventure Path as well. Not every adventure will be focused on these events—the one after Spore War won’t, for example—but just as we’re still telling stories about runelords or the aftermath of the Worldwound or the fate of Ravounel, what goes down during the War of Immortals is here to stay.

Unlike Gorum.

But do not weep for him! Instead, maybe the next time your PC slays a dragon, defeats an evil warlord, or simply earns a new weapon or suit of armor, raise a sword in his memory.

James Jacobs
Pathfinder Creative Director of Narrative

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Tags: Pathfinder Pathfinder Remaster Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition
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Scarab Sages

So, who takes Gorum's place as the other CN core 20 deity?

That's easy...Nocticula.


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The setting is definitely changing from the alignment change, but mostly indirectly. I think that we're about to see a way more morally gray range of clerics, for example, and simply refraining from listing gods with binary moral alignments is going to do a lot for improving setting complexity.

Basically, cosmic good and cosmic evil are becoming much rarer. That's a good thing, in my opinion. They still exist, but they're increasingly the domain of the supernatural--especially, I predict, cosmic evil, which was always more realistic for monsters than people. Most clerics of "evil" gods are free to be morally nuanced now, since unless they opt into sanctification, they're under no obligation to be dog-kickers.

The real impact is going to be felt most by new players, of course. Will gods like Lamashtu and Besmara and Norgorber be as easy to pin down now? Gorum and Arazni, while due for changes, would otherwise be great examples of gods who become much more ambigious without the books providing a clear label. How will people read Abadar and Erastil? Will we see more Erastilian guerilla freedom fighters? More chill Lamashtan midwives? It's exciting! It feels like we're being invited to ask questions and draw our own conclusions. Every deity who doesn't require sanctification is now placed in a gray zone.

And sure, you could always play a neutral cleric of an evil god, but you were still serving an evil god. Now, if I read Lamashtu's entry, you know what I think? "Oh, so she's like Gorum or Gozreh--dangerous and unpredictable, but still potentially helpful depending on the situation." Her 'alignment' doesn't even factor into it.

Liberty's Edge

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Kobold Catgirl wrote:

The setting is definitely changing from the alignment change, but mostly indirectly. I think that we're about to see a way more morally gray range of clerics, for example, and simply refraining from listing gods with binary moral alignments is going to do a lot for improving setting complexity.

Basically, cosmic good and cosmic evil are becoming much rarer. That's a good thing, in my opinion. They still exist, but they're increasingly the domain of the supernatural--especially, I predict, cosmic evil, which was always more realistic for monsters than people. Most clerics of "evil" gods are free to be morally nuanced now, since unless they opt into sanctification, they're under no obligation to be dog-kickers.

The real impact is going to be felt most by new players, of course. Will gods like Lamashtu and Besmara and Norgorber be as easy to pin down now? Gorum and Arazni, while due for changes, would otherwise be great examples of gods who become much more ambigious without the books providing a clear label. How will people read Abadar and Erastil? Will we see more Erastilian guerilla freedom fighters? More chill Lamashtan midwives? It's exciting! It feels like we're being invited to ask questions and draw our own conclusions. Every deity who doesn't require sanctification is now placed in a gray zone.

And sure, you could always play a neutral cleric of an evil god, but you were still serving an evil god. Now, if I read Lamashtu's entry, you know what I think? "Oh, so she's like Gorum or Gozreh--dangerous and unpredictable, but still potentially helpful depending on the situation." Her 'alignment' doesn't even factor into it.

With all respect, I feel people who disliked alignment read far too much leeway in the setting post Remaster compared to what will actually happen.

The deities have not changed. Their values have not changed.

Lamashtu is still an ascended Demon Lord. She still has her lair in the Outer Rifts, the home plane of demons. And her description in AoN paints her in a much darker light than merely "dangerous and unpredictable".

And of course, faithfuls of deities such as Asmodeus will still be all evil dog-kickers since he requires Unholy.

Ironically, that is far from the PF1 situation where you could be a LN Cleric of him.


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Arkat wrote:

So, who takes Gorum's place as the other CN core 20 deity?

That's easy...Nocticula.

We already know Arazni is going to be taking Gorum's place in the Core 20. While she won't be CN, because that's not a thing now, she already allows for both evil and good worshipers, so her allowing sanctification to Holy or Unholy would make sense.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Alignment is gone in the remaster, yes, but the things that it measured in the OGL game aren't changing, thematically or flavor wise. The rules by which that stuff is represented works different, but barring creative creep of the scope and theme, in theory, the behaviors each of the deities in the OGL will be pretty much the same 10 years from now... we just will be less likely to fall back on the OGL terminology since it'll be 10 years in the future from those habits.


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The Raven Black wrote:
Lamashtu is still an ascended Demon Lord. She still has her lair in the Outer Rifts, the home plane of demons. And her description in AoN paints her in a much darker light than merely "dangerous and unpredictable".

Agree to disagree on Lamashtu, I guess! She doesn't mandate sanctification, and her description reads as an extremely dangerous but also sometimes benevolent being, demon or no. Her beautifully-written description reminds me a lot of that scene from The Simpsons.

Quote:
For those who revel in the corruption of the pure...

That's bad.

Quote:
...who find themselves spurned and neglected by a world that despises their differences...

That's good!

Quote:
...has made it her goal to twist mortal life toward her abhorrent ideals. Her intervention is widely known to inflict corruptions and terrible nightmares.

That's bad.

Quote:

Edicts bring power to outcasts and the downtrodden.

Anathema attempt to change that which makes you different

That's good!

Quote:
Divine Sanctification can choose unholy

Can I go now?

Anyways, we'll see how the intentions of the devs wind up interacting with the unintended consequences of the new rules. Death of the Author, and all that. I will freely admit, though, that I will be happy to reduce my game's dependence on the "good vs. evil" ideology, regardless of where Golarion canonically winds up. I don't really believe, as a matter of personal political opinion, that "evil" is a cause human beings ever follow for its own sake, so I like that this copyright change inadvertently allows me to escape Pathfinder's ties to that whole idea.


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One could make a case for making Besmara CN just because the Maelstrom is the only outer plane where one can sail throughout, and her thing is pirates.

Just because she's not CN, doesn't mean she doesn't continue to sail the Maelstrom (and also be a pirate.)


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The Raven Black wrote:
The deities have not changed. Their values have not changed.

While true, the important part is that those values are now everything for a follower of a deity. You're no longer filtering those requirements against a second axis of tenants as well.

This indisputably opens up options a bit, since you're only focusing on those core rules.

For many gods, it won't matter too much, but for gods with greyer or broader edicts and anathema it broadens the range of followers they have that might not have been workable pre-remaster, because that second grid simply doesn't exist anymore.

It also soft-patches some deities that had confusing alignments themselves, which isn't necessarily a change to the deity but addresses incongruities with them.

Both are reasonably significant improvements to the system. Not earthshattering, but not nothing as some people suggest either.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Besmara (CE) - may be well positioned to hoover up Gorum worshippers and clergy with a interest in naval warfare, being a pirate goddess.

{. . .}

Nice analysis, except that Besmara is officially (and inexplicably) Chaotic Neutral.

But the bigger point is that Alignment is about to suffer Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure . . . .

Dang. I don't know how that happened unless I compound Besmara somehow with Asmodeus in the list in the line above. Still, I should have picked it up in the read through but maybe something in my head went 'pirates=evil' and overrode visual input.

I stand (or at least sit at my laptop keyboard) corrected, thank-you. :)

(At any rate, that would presumably position Besmara even better, at least if the alignment thingies still existed, to hoover up Gorum's faithful of a naval combat orientated bent.)

Shadow Lodge

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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Female warriors looking for another patrons should definitely take a look at Falayna.

There's also Suyuddha, the Warrior Queen, a Vudrani god, although she's more the goddess of generals than of footsoldiers.


All this alignments talk reminds me that Law vs Chaos was often the more backgound'ish of the two axis, and often conflated with the other as well.

Scarab Sages

Souls At War wrote:
All this alignments talk reminds me that Law vs Chaos was often the more backgound'ish of the two axis, and often conflated with the other as well.

Michael Moorcock's influence regarding Law vs. Chaos cannot be overstated.


If I've got my Grognard Lore right, the Law vs. Chaos stuff could also have its roots in the original AD&D alignments, which were a very Jordan Petersonian "Law" (everything good, pure and Christian things Gygax thought were good and pure) versus "Chaos" (everything evil, pagan and things Gygax thought were bad), with Neutral as the nonsensical, alien, almost subhuman "we fight for balance for its own sake with no real rationale behind it". Alignment got relatively modernized later on, of course, but I'm not sure it ever truly escaped its moral absolutist, ex-Jehovah's Witness roots.

I could also totally have this skewed. I mainly know AD&D from Swords and Wizardry.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

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Charles Evans 25 wrote:

It's the accounts department, isn't it? They won't stand for an expenses claim for taking Ed out to lunch for some long reminiscences? :D

(Or maybe TSR era non-disclosure stuff, I guess, but anyway...)

Ed wrote a novel for the Pathfinder Tales line, and as a contributor, would totally be justified to take out for a drink, but I think a more likely piece of the puzzle is that nearly everyone who has ever worked directly with Ed, either at Paizo or WotC or TSR, is no longer employed at Paizo either due to moving on to other jobs or retiring.

Looking back to the elders of the game industry and legendary creators of yore certainly has value, but the Paizo of 2024 is not the Paizo of 2009, and we're generally more interested in looking forward than back. Nostalgia has a place, but for most of our fans, freelancers, and even staff, TSR was already a thing of the past when they started playing in the hobby, much less playing Pathfinder.

For the War of Immortals, while we were aware of similar storylines done by other brands in the past, our intent was to tell our own story, using the inspiration and passions of our creators rather than falling back on decades-old events that really aren't relevant to our brands, game, or community.


Dang you Kobold! Now I read everybody’s posts with alternating “That’s good!” “That’s bad!” for each paragraph. No matter what the content is!!!

[That’s good!!!]


Arkat wrote:
Souls At War wrote:
All this alignments talk reminds me that Law vs Chaos was often the more backgound'ish of the two axis, and often conflated with the other as well.
Michael Moorcock's influence regarding Law vs. Chaos cannot be overstated.

Mostly because it should never be stated and his entire canon of “here’s a story over and over again but different” consigned to the dustbin of history. Also Hawkwind the band.

[That’s bad!!!]


Kobold Catgirl wrote:

If I've got my Grognard Lore right, the Law vs. Chaos stuff could also have its roots in the original AD&D alignments, which were a very Jordan Petersonian "Law" (everything good, pure and Christian things Gygax thought were good and pure) versus "Chaos" (everything evil, pagan and things Gygax thought were bad), with Neutral as the nonsensical, alien, almost subhuman "we fight for balance for its own sake with no real rationale behind it". Alignment got relatively modernized later on, of course, but I'm not sure it ever truly escaped its moral absolutist, ex-Jehovah's Witness roots.

I could also totally have this skewed. I mainly know AD&D from Swords and Wizardry.

Hmm, RuneQuest kinda does this too, then there was D&D 4e, not necessarily for the same reasons.

Scarab Sages

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LandSwordBear wrote:
Arkat wrote:
Souls At War wrote:
All this alignments talk reminds me that Law vs Chaos was often the more backgound'ish of the two axis, and often conflated with the other as well.
Michael Moorcock's influence regarding Law vs. Chaos cannot be overstated.
Mostly because it should never be stated and his entire canon of “here’s a story over and over again but different” consigned to the dustbin of history. Also Hawkwind the band.

Moorcock must be peanut butter cuz you jelly.


It belatedly occurs to me that logically Rovagug should be on the 'defunct deities' list, before the final deity body-count is in.
Even with the edition change, as far as I can understand Rovagug was still so universally hated and feared that there was still a major team-up of deities of Avistan and Garund to lock him away.
And if something has recently changed in the setting so that any deity can be killed... well Rovagug is going to get some vigilante justice in his centre of the world prison cell, once it's clear that that's possible.
Although there may be some squabbling over which deity gets to finish him off.

And at some point in the future, if a Rovagug is around in the Starfinder setting, someone else can presumably pick up the evil hockey-mask (in best Friday the 13th fashion) and put it on and become Rovagug II.

Grand Lodge

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"If it bleeds, we can kill it."

"No, if it bleeds, it can be killed. Nothing says we can kill it."

A god being killed does not mean all gods can be killed. Otherwise Rovagug would have been on notice since Aroden.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:

"If it bleeds, we can kill it."

"No, if it bleeds, it can be killed. Nothing says we can kill it."

A god being killed does not mean all gods can be killed. Otherwise Rovagug would have been on notice since Aroden.

Aroden was an amped-up human, and the details have been left mysterious. It may have been that Aroden expired because he forgot to take his annual dose of Starstone mineral water, or something.

Whereas it seems that Gorum is going to be an outright deity-on-deity killing.


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Charles Evans 25 wrote:
It belatedly occurs to me that logically Rovagug should be on the 'defunct deities' list, before the final deity body-count is in.

Did you follow along the countdown where they revealed the 10 safe dieties on the paizo blog? They laid out the prophesied scenario that would occur if that deity did shuffle off the immortal coil, and many of those were not good (including Rovagug.)

Specifically a lot of the reasons that gods were working together, despite being probable enemies, was that "we can all agree that Rovagug is a problem that we all need to work together to fix." If you remove the reasons that Heaven and Hell are not at war, then that war is going to start right quick and probably not go well for anyone.

Grand Lodge

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Aroden was an amped-up human...

Unproven.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
It belatedly occurs to me that logically Rovagug should be on the 'defunct deities' list, before the final deity body-count is in.

Did you follow along the countdown where they revealed the 10 safe dieties on the paizo blog? They laid out the prophesied scenario that would occur if that deity did shuffle off the immortal coil, and many of those were not good (including Rovagug.)

Specifically a lot of the reasons that gods were working together, despite being probable enemies, was that "we can all agree that Rovagug is a problem that we all need to work together to fix." If you remove the reasons that Heaven and Hell are not at war, then that war is going to start right quick and probably not go well for anyone.

I've been away for a while, and didn't know that Rovagug was on a list with special immunity.

And Rovagug being a major problem for all the other deities seems to me a reason for Rovagug to be inhumed with extreme prejudice as soon as it's possible, unless he's chained into some deific version of the 'Infernal Engine' from the Council of Thieves path and providing all the other deities with hot baths or something as he's being slowly drained to death in a millennia long process...

I gather from your post that Rovagug's immunity has been discussed in a thread before though. Do you have a link, please, to the thread in question?


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As the story goes, Aroden was elevated to godhood by the other gods as a reward for essentially defusing the chemical world-bomb that was the Starstone. As far as we know, he was as much a god as any other.

Anyways, they didn't lock Rovagug up because gods couldn't be killed. Gods have been essentially "killed" before now. Asmodeus's brother is, as far as we know, dead as dirt. Lamashtu and Desna are all that remain of the original god of beasts and travel. They locked Rovagug up because the best they could do, even when every single god stood united, was use the Bull Rush maneuver right as the rest of them teamed up to cast a really, really enhanced create pit.

They didn't beat Rovagug. Calistria said "hey, someone wrote Gullible in that big hole in the ground" and Sarenrae managed to shove him while he stopped to look. And even that tiny victory was enough to make Rovagug hate Sarenrae more than any other being in creation. That's how big a deal it was just to manage a reposition.

Grand Lodge

Charles Evans 25 wrote:


I gather from your post that Rovagug's immunity has been discussed in a thread before though. Do you have a link, please, to the thread in question?

Still have to find the blog post commenting on this series being the “safe from death” notices, but the entries can be found here.


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The list is specifically referencing that one god would die and the others (of the Core gods) wouldn't, and it turned out Gorum was the guy getting voted off the island.

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Kobold Catgirl wrote:
As the story goes, Aroden was elevated to godhood by the other gods as a reward for essentially defusing the chemical world-bomb that was the Starstone. As far as we know, he was as much a god as any other.

Whoa, really?! What book is THAT in?! How did I miss something like that?! (No, but seriously, I thought the godhood was just an unintended side-effect of the Starstone's power, and that Aroden wasn't counted among the club of gods who passed the Test of the Starstone because he was the one who invented the Test in the first place, kinda pulling the godhood ladder up behind him on the way out)


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It's ambiguous! Probably deliberately. The Starstone, and the meteor it rode in on, have a very menacing vibe at times.

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Kobold Catgirl wrote:
It's ambiguous! Probably deliberately. The Starstone, and the meteor it rode in on, have a very menacing vibe at times.

ゴゴゴゴ

*Menacing*

Liberty's Edge

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As best I know the last time we got concrete information on this was back in PF1's Mythic Realms (though maybe we got something else in Extinction Curse?), but it feels like it's all subject to alteration if needed to fit newer ideas more effectively. That being said, back in Mythic Realms the language used was pretty in-line with Kobold Catgirl's comments!

Mythic Realms pg 16 wrote:
Aroden was the first to use this Starstone to gain the attention of gods, and in return for setting a guard against its misuse, he was elevated among the divine.


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^This resurfaces the question of whether the Starstone made Aroden awesome or Aroden made the Starstone awesome . . . .

As for Rovagug, I still favor the theory that at some point (now obviously quite a way in the future, probably the far future), the other deities try to kill him by throwing him into the black hole at the center of the galaxy, and although this seems to get rid of Rovagug himself, now they're faced with an aware and vengeful black hole . . . .


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:


I gather from your post that Rovagug's immunity has been discussed in a thread before though. Do you have a link, please, to the thread in question?
Still have to find the blog post commenting on this series being the “safe from death” notices, but the entries can be found here.

and the Which Core Deity will we lose? thread.

Community and Social Media Specialist

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The sheer fervor of people guessing who it was going to be was SO fun to watch from this side.


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For my part, Rovagug's death was still my favorite pick, but that's just because it felt like the most Dark Souls option available. The doomsday god is dead, and yet everything is worse now. Gorum's death is a great development!

Community and Social Media Specialist

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Kobold Catgirl wrote:
For my part, Rovagug's death was still my favorite pick, but that's just because it felt like the most Dark Souls option available. The doomsday god is dead, and yet everything is worse now. Gorum's death is a great development!

I love that as an option. Gorum may not be the one who goes in my home game ( havent decided/not there yet story wise) but one of the things I love about this game is the vast amount of creativity involved in our own worlds. To continue the FromSoft vibe, if Pharasma goes, maybe nothing truly dies anymore a la Elden Ring? That sounds like a fun thing to explore.

I will also continue to hype our art because dang that Gorum piece looks good.


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I'm intending for Gorum to go in my home games, but to have options for people to still be able to pick him as a deity for clericdom because the new claric class archetype's name has too much of a Gorum vibe to not use for him.

Right now I'm thinking that Gorum's essence will bleed into all his current clerics, allowing them to pull granted spells from his memory, and his clergy now must pass on their little sparks of Gorum's divinity to new members to perpetuate the church, or perhaps grant them to a worthy enemy if/when they fall in battle. Or perhaps they employ some kind of ritual to pull clerical spellcasting from his blood and seek to secure as many sites as they can in order to continue fighting in the name of Our Lord in Iron.

... Assuming that I don't like Paizo's options more, of course, since we've been told that people with Gorumite characters will continue to be able to use them.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:


I gather from your post that Rovagug's immunity has been discussed in a thread before though. Do you have a link, please, to the thread in question?
Still have to find the blog post commenting on this series being the “safe from death” notices, but the entries can be found here.

Sorry about the delay in response. We just had a General Election here in the UK.

Thanks for the link. It's left me thoroughly confused, since the picture block of deities in the most recent blog entry seems to be telling me that Rovagug is 'safe' but the entire blog entry seems to be a 'Rovagug could die' scenario.
Presumably there are several other blog entries, earlier, explaining why a 'safe' deity actually might be going to die but actually might not, but one thing that blog has made clear is that so much has changed with the company and the setting that it's practically impossible for someone who's been away for several years (such as myself) to catch up.
"May all your characters' tavern brawls lead to rich rewards, and all their crits be confirmed" or whatever it was that the old gamer parting was...
:)


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The premise of the "Godsrain Prophecies" series of blogs were to explain "what is prophesied to happen when this god dies/what brings about their death" but diagetically these are being compiled by one of Pharasma's functionaries who is sorting prophecies and these are going into the "this is not going to happen" pile.

So this is the Paizo's editors' way to mark "this God is not going to die" while still exploring the "What If" scenario.


Souls At War wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:


I gather from your post that Rovagug's immunity has been discussed in a thread before though. Do you have a link, please, to the thread in question?
Still have to find the blog post commenting on this series being the “safe from death” notices, but the entries can be found here.
and the Which Core Deity will we lose? thread.

Thanks for the link. 700+ posts, I see.

I skimmed the first few pages and noticed there was some enthusiasm for Asmodeus taking a permanent dirt-nap. Also, what was as far as I could understand, reference to some kind of special 2023 convention event which had already at least partially predetermined what was going to happen.

I'm running short on posting time here, but thanks again for the link.

Grand Lodge

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Cheers, Charles. Hope things settle nicely for you.


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Personally, I actually knew very little about Golarion lore before the event. Like, I knew some about very specific areas and topics, and about a couple major events (like a certain two powerful beings escaping their respective prisons and changing the literal map), but I learned a lot assembling my conspiracy boards. So much effort to be completely wrong. XD


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Kobold Catgirl wrote:
Personally, I actually knew very little about Golarion lore before the event. Like, I knew some about very specific areas and topics, and about a couple major events (like a certain two powerful beings escaping their respective prisons and changing the literal map), but I learned a lot assembling my conspiracy boards. So much effort to be completely wrong. XD

At least you can admit it and not go: "I'm not wrong, it's the Paizo writers who are wrong".


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well y'know I haven't ruled out the final blog post being an extremely thorough collection of typoes


My homebrew campaign (once SF2E is complete and I can have my timeline hopping, endgame converging narrative I want to run) is going to have Sword Saints of Gorum, basically mythic mercenaries that are either allies or enemies depending on which side of a conflict they are hired. I think I can keep the Gorum death development in my home pact worlds, I just need to tweak the story as them picking up hunks of God Iron as opposed to being specially chosen by Gorum as living avatars. Or maybe it can be both: across the millennia the reforged god flesh (swords) has constantly sought out those who love a good scrap! Is there any significant numerology to Gorum? Trying to figure out how many saints there should be

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