Legendary Items with spellcasting

The Spellcasting ability that you can give to Legendary weapons gives you 5 points to spend on spell-like abilities each time you select it. So, two questions: If you select the spellcasting ability twice (or more) at the same tier, can you add the points together to purchase spell-like abilities with a spell level above 5? If so, can you save unspent points from a previous tier for the same purpose?

Typically the answer is no when it comes to keeping points unspent.

More interesting is the ability to cast the spell is actually granted to the items owner as an SLA. This has many ramifications for character development.

Yeah, my default assumption was that you couldn't keep the points, but it seems a shame to have a major artifact that can't go over 5th level spells.

Just pay to add the spell before it ever becomes an artifact. Or discuss with your GM to delay utilizing the ability until you can take it again and add see if he will let you use 10 spell levels total.

My GM is pretty good about stuff like this, and our WotR campaign is still a few months away, I just wanted to make sure the intent was a de facto cap of 5th level spells.

Yeah, my default assumption was that you couldn't keep the points, but it seems a shame to have a major artifact that can't go over 5th level spells.

Going over 5th level is fairly simple.

You can select legendary item at tier 3 or later and apply all 3 legendary abilities to intelligence, pick spellcasting twice, giving you 10 spells levels.

Take your second tier at tier 6 and select intelligence three times, giving you an additional 15 spell levels.

Take your third tier at tier 10 and select intelligence four times giving an additional 20 spell levels.

mordion wrote:

Yeah, my default assumption was that you couldn't keep the points, but it seems a shame to have a major artifact that can't go over 5th level spells.

Going over 5th level is fairly simple.

You can select legendary item at tier 3 or later and apply all 3 legendary abilities to intelligence, pick spellcasting twice, giving you 10 spells levels.

Take your second tier at tier 6 and select intelligence three times, giving you an additional 15 spell levels.

Take your third tier at tier 10 and select intelligence four times giving an additional 20 spell levels.

So, you can select the Spellcasting ability multiple times at the same tier and add all of those spell points into a single pool?

What do you think about this text:

This maximum increases to six if the bonded creature selects the legendary item universal path ability twice, and then to 10 if the bonded creature selects the ability three times (again, the maximum cannot exceed the bonded creature’s number of tiers). These abilities are added at the rate of one per day.

One of my players just asked me for a clarification on this same spellcasting ability...

(Note: Personally I houseruled saving points as fine, because they need as many mythic tiers as the spell, and somewhere in the book it notes you should have like 1 mythic tier every 2 character levels, if you play Mythic from level 1... at that point saving does them no good until much higher level, at that point it's going to balance out fine anyway. Also, it would have been trivial to state the max level was 5, but they didn't... I'm inclined to think it's permissible, because they're mythic)

BUT the sticking point we fell across was it given NO limitations on expensive components in spells. It just states pick a spell, get that spell.

I'm debating going with the old "50 times the component cost" rule for spell like abilities in 3.5, but I don't know what the design intent is.

with no mention of spell limitations then you could have Wish /1 day

On page 80 of Mythic Adventures under "Mythic Spells in Magic Items" that Mythic spells can be placed in artifacts, not mentioned is whether this can be done when you upgrade a legendary weapon to an artifact

something else not mentioned is how to calculate Ego for Legendary Items

hmm, seems to me that when you take the spellcasting option, its limited to max level of spell = tier level.. so it wouldn't be that good at 1st tier.. I personally would wait till 2nd tier or higher to get spells on the item.

2nd tier - 2 2nd level spells and a first level.

taking spellcasting at every level would only gain you more lower level spells. Would be better to have a few selected spells over a wider range of levels.

4th tier - 4th level spell and a 1st.
5th tier- 3rd level and a 2nd.
6th tier - 2 3rd level spells.

and yes, having a max of 5th level spells do tend to suck on a major artifact.

Personally I like the combination of Divine Source with (Community Domain with neutral alignment for Miracle) and one level in the spellcasting option (Legendary Item) for Permanency (5 points)

Both are gained as Spell-like Abilities

6th tier - 2 3rd level spells.

How's that? That would be six points.

It gains the powers at a rate og 1 per day. If you delay and take spell casting three times, you get it once on day one, so pick 5 levels then and there, then a day later you get it again so 5 more levels to pick ans so on. I don't see any point at which you could get more than 5. 5 is fine.

"All spells must come from the same class's spell list." I have a player running a Summoner who wants to use spells off the paladin spell list. At 4th tier he can take spells that clerics or oracles would need to be 15th level to cast. I have grave misgivings over how overpowered this could become but can't find anything published prohibiting it.

"All spells must come from the same class's spell list." I have a player running a Summoner who wants to use spells off the paladin spell list. At 4th tier he can take spells that clerics or oracles would need to be 15th level to cast. I have grave misgivings over how overpowered this could become but can't find anything published prohibiting it.

Your assumption is correct, there is no reason a player couldn't select paladin and get some nice 4th level spells.

There are only a few spells that paladin's get lower then other classes and they are mostly buffs with short durations. Archon's trumpet would be an exception, but the dc would be low.

A tier 4 mythic character should be at least level 8, if not closer to 10, at which point a powerful buff once a day shouldn't be a huge issue (or even a trumpet with a low dc). If the player took mythic archon they would be able to get the spells at tier 2--more around 4th-6th level, which could be harder to deal with.

It shouldn't be that hard to manage really. If you think it is perhaps talk with the player and ask that they don't do this until later and toss them some bonus XP or whatever. You could always pull out the GM trump card if you can't manage it and disallow it, but there are usually better ways to handle things.

There are only a few spells that paladin's get lower then other classes and they are mostly buffs with short durations. Archon's trumpet would be an exception, but the dc would be low.

A tier 4 mythic character should be at least level 8, if not closer to 10, at which point a powerful buff once a day shouldn't be a huge issue (or even a trumpet with a low dc). If the player took mythic archon they would be able to get the spells at tier 2--more around 4th-6th level, which could be harder to deal with.

He brought up Mythic Paragon, which he already has. I ruled that the part saying, "This doesn't grant you access to mythic abilities...at a lower tier than you would normally need to be to get them" to mean you have to be tier 4 before you gain access to level 4 spells.

One of the killer spells he wants is Greater Angelic Aspect, a paladin 4 cleric 8 spell. Since I'm running Wrath of the Righteous he would be able to shred his way through demons once a day starting at 7th level. (He's playing a Summoner/Synthesist that's already a demon-cheese grater)
And I have to say Bloodsworn Retribution is a nightmare for any DM playing with intelligent "type A personality" players. I get a headache imagining myself adjudicating what is and isn't a valid oath once a day.