Additional Resources and Signal of Screams

Huzzah!

The box on page one of the document gives the wrong names for Episodes 2 and 3.

Also... yay!

Here's hoping that Cradle of Night gets sanctioned soon too. Glad to see so much work being done.

Still hoping for a Plunder & Peril campaign clarification that goes beyond what Owen's said unofficially. There's a lot of errors in that module where the tactics say one thing and the stats are 100% different so the tactics mean absolutely nothing.

Still hoping for a Plunder & Peril campaign clarification that goes beyond what Owen's said unofficially. There's a lot of errors in that module where the tactics say one thing and the stats are 100% different so the tactics mean absolutely nothing.

Eep! I'm running a PFS sanctioned P&P game throughout Jan & Feb. Would love to see Owen's thread. Could you post a link?

Derek Blakely wrote:

Still hoping for a Plunder & Peril campaign clarification that goes beyond what Owen's said unofficially. There's a lot of errors in that module where the tactics say one thing and the stats are 100% different so the tactics mean absolutely nothing.

Eep! I'm running a PFS sanctioned P&P game throughout Jan & Feb. Would love to see Owen's thread. Could you post a link?

Here's the start of it, but you'll want to scroll down a bit for his next post underneath regarding no official errata system. This is an issue as brought up by VampByDay in his spoiler section, there's one encounter that makes no sense because it was written for two different monsters that weren't actually used. It's later you find out from the author that it was supposed to be another monster entirely, with class levels, but got tossed due to word count. It's one of those things where you're actually better to run a homebrew game, and just do it in campaign mode. At least until errata sheets can be added.

I'm sad that the one thing I was interested in from Plane-Hopper's Handbook is not even mentioned in it's AR entry...

The alternate racial heritages for the Oread, Ifrit, Sylph, and Undine are completely left out in the AR entry for the book.

Christian Dragos wrote:

Derek Blakely wrote:

Still hoping for a Plunder & Peril campaign clarification that goes beyond what Owen's said unofficially. There's a lot of errors in that module where the tactics say one thing and the stats are 100% different so the tactics mean absolutely nothing.

Eep! I'm running a PFS sanctioned P&P game throughout Jan & Feb. Would love to see Owen's thread. Could you post a link?

Here's the start of it, but you'll want to scroll down a bit for his next post underneath regarding no official errata system. This is an issue as brought up by VampByDay in his spoiler section, there's one encounter that makes no sense because it was written for two different monsters that weren't actually used. It's later you find out from the author that it was supposed to be another monster entirely, with class levels, but got tossed due to word count. It's one of those things where you're actually better to run a homebrew game, and just do it in campaign mode. At least until errata sheets can be added.

Also, if you are running in campaign mode, you can implement all of Owen's suggestions without any impact on legality.

Why is the Warrior Poet archetype (Heroes of the Fringe) not allowed in the Additional Resources document?

(I'm not a PFS-member, so I don't know all the restrictions on archetypes beyond the "no item creation feats" rule.)

Why is the Warrior Poet archetype (Heroes of the Fringe) not allowed in the Additional Resources document?

(I'm not a PFS-member, so I don't know all the restrictions on archetypes beyond the "no item creation feats" rule.)

"...any ambiguities and mechanics that could be disruptive in the organized play environment..."

This is usually the issue, unless they are saving it for a special adventure's Chronicle sheet.

Thanks, everyone, for not one but 2 updates so quickly! You've made many ganzi around my Lodge very happy.

Derek Blakely wrote:

Christian Dragos wrote:

Derek Blakely wrote:

Still hoping for a Plunder & Peril campaign clarification that goes beyond what Owen's said unofficially. There's a lot of errors in that module where the tactics say one thing and the stats are 100% different so the tactics mean absolutely nothing.

Eep! I'm running a PFS sanctioned P&P game throughout Jan & Feb. Would love to see Owen's thread. Could you post a link?

Here's the start of it, but you'll want to scroll down a bit for his next post underneath regarding no official errata system. This is an issue as brought up by VampByDay in his spoiler section, there's one encounter that makes no sense because it was written for two different monsters that weren't actually used. It's later you find out from the author that it was supposed to be another monster entirely, with class levels, but got tossed due to word count. It's one of those things where you're actually better to run a homebrew game, and just do it in campaign mode. At least until errata sheets can be added.

Also, if you are running in campaign mode, you can implement all of Owen's suggestions without any impact on legality.

To be fair, John Compton posted in the same thread saying that he accepts Owen's changes for PFS. Otherwise the power scale is too one-sided and it'll be a TPK almost every time.

I'm sad that the one thing I was interested in from Plane-Hopper's Handbook is not even mentioned in it's AR entry...

The alternate racial heritages for the Oread, Ifrit, Sylph, and Undine are completely left out in the AR entry for the book.

Not sure what the one thing is that you were interested in, but the alternate racial heritages don't need to be mentioned. It says "The alternative racial traits in this book are legal for play except eternal smith and uncanny aura". That should count as alternate racial traits for those races as it did for tieflings and aasimars for their variants. If it's not mentioned then usually that means it's not illegal. The only things mentioned are things that get called out for not being legal in PFS or have to changed (ie. anything pertaining to item crafting feats and Leadership).

So... I dunno if this is the right place or not, but can I make a protean-kin ganzi (with prehensile tail) with only a single ganzi boon now?

Why is the Warrior Poet archetype (Heroes of the Fringe) not allowed in the Additional Resources document?

I'd like to know too.

"...any ambiguities and mechanics that could be disruptive in the organized play environment..."

How "disruptive" could Warrior Poet be? I've seen PFS Legal archetypes get completely broken. They rushed through this update just to be able to say that did it.

This is usually the issue, unless they are saving it for a special adventure's Chronicle sheet.

I have the book, why do I now want to wait for a chronicle or boon. I've waited since August to see if the character I made is legal. Honestly at this point I don't even want to wait anymore just to be toyed around with. If its on a chronicle, I have to be able to play the scenario its on(or run it if it doesn't have special requirements), which I can't guarantee. I can hardly make it to PFS games here in the Upstate because of school and work. If its a boon, how will players get it? Cuz if its a convention boon, well it aint happenin' for me. I don't go to the big ones like PaizoCon or GenCon, largest one I go to is SCARAB in Columbia, SC.

I have the book, why do I now want to wait for a chronicle or boon. I've waited since August to see if the character I made is legal. Honestly at this point I don't even want to wait anymore just to be toyed around with. If its on a chronicle, I have to be able to play the scenario its on(or run it if it doesn't have special requirements), which I can't guarantee. I can hardly make it to PFS games here in the Upstate because of school and work. If its a boon, how will players get it? Cuz if its a convention boon, well it aint happenin' for me. I don't go to the big ones like PaizoCon or GenCon, largest one I go to is SCARAB in Columbia, SC.

Unfortunately, that's just how they choose to do it sometimes. I just got a scenario that lets me gain access to two archetypes that are currently aren't legal. Looking over the archetypes there's no reason they wouldn't normally be other than solely to make it a reward. Normally these are scenario boons, not convention boons. Convention ones are typically race boons, re-rolls, or even spend prestige to have any dead character you created to not be.

They rushed through this update just to be able to say that did it.

Unsubstantiated comment is unsubstantiated.

Whether or not the PFS OrgPlay folks decide to provide further explanation is irrelevant here. I recognize that people can be upset when desired options aren't added. However, please don't use this as rationale to call out the work quality of my co-workers in a post.

It's fine to voice your displeasure, and in fact it's helpful for the OrgPlay team to to hear feedback, but making comments like this about our work ethic do not endear developers to hearing out your concerns.

I've seen PFS Legal archetypes get completely broken.

This does not mean that new problematic stuff should be added in. I personally see a big problem for the archetype in petal on the winds and its possible rammifications especially with creative use of "foe". But I do not know why it was banned but I can see this, or the fact that this archetype is one of the best dips for certain builds, as a reason for it.

If we're banning archetypes for being absolutely broken dips, can we ban inspired blade? 5 out of 5 investigators I've had at my tables have the exact same one-level dip - one level of inspired blade for parry and Fencing Grace. It's the most flagrant example of such a "dip" since one level of crossblooded (draconic/orc) sorcerer.

Seriously, please kill inspired blade. -_-

Rude.

Oddly enough, I haven't seen one Inspired. The most I've seen are Empiricist, and even that is rare.

Based on that, seems a regional fluctuation, rather than a systemic one?

EDIT: Also, looking forward to rolling out the Ganzi that's been sitting for two or three years after it was fusion-ha'd together!

May everyone have an awesome holiday season!

If we're banning archetypes for being absolutely broken dips, can we ban inspired blade? 5 out of 5 investigators I've had at my tables have the exact same one-level dip - one level of inspired blade for parry and Fencing Grace. It's the most flagrant example of such a "dip" since one level of crossblooded (draconic/orc) sorcerer.

Seriously, please kill inspired blade. -_-

Like Wei Ji, I haven't seen many of this dip either, but it's good to keep a watch out for.

They rushed through this update just to be able to say that did it.

Unsubstantiated comment is unsubstantiated.

Whether or not the PFS OrgPlay folks decide to provide further explanation is irrelevant here. I recognize that people can be upset when desired options aren't added. However, please don't use this as rationale to call out the work quality of my co-workers in a post.

It's fine to voice your displeasure, and in fact it's helpful for the OrgPlay team to to hear feedback, but making comments like this about our work ethic do not endear developers to hearing out your concerns.

Hey, I apologize for my earlier comment Thurston. I guess I did kinda go HAM on the PFS staff. I'm just frustrated, but I wasn't justified in saying what I said.

John and Thursty, thank you from the bottom of my heart for getting Signal of Screams sanctioned so quickly.

Hugs and Happy Holidays
Hmm

PS Seers of the Drowned City, yay!

Signal of Screams chronicle question:

The team's looked back at the concerns brought up here and have the following updates.

Geniekin
Although we had every intention of making the alternate geniekin heritages legal, it seems I mentally folded them into the Alternate Racial Traits entry rather than copying the way we handled these in Blood of the Coven. The next update of the Additional Resources document will include the following addition to the Pathfinder Player Companion: Plane-Hopper's Handbook entry. Go ahead and apply it, effective immediately.

Heritages: The geniekin heritages in this book are legal for play.

Ganzi

However, there's more going on here. We opened up the ability to swap in or out one's ganzi oddity not only because it's fitting for a chaos-influenced creature but also because it allows those who recently made a ganzi to make more use of Plane-Hopper's Handbook content. Doing so, though, inadvertently means that those who used a second ganzi boon to choose a different oddity are losing their earlier advantage. That means that we need to consider either stepping back the special oddities access to them (which seems overly restrictive) or providing some alternate benefit.

Your powerful chaotic influence allows you to manifest an additional oddity several times. As a free action, you can record the name of the adventure you are playing on this boon’s Chronicle sheet to gain a second legal ganzi oddity for 1 hour. You can only have two ganzi oddities at a time, and you can only gain additional oddities in this way three times.

I’m interested in feedback on this boon update before implementing it. There isn’t an obvious place to post boon updates, so once we’re happy with it, we’ll likely post the update to the Additional Resources document. Assuming this all works, then we’ll also be reviewing (and likely removing) the listed ban of the chaos champion and weaponplay oddities. In the meantime, do not modify any ganzi PCs who have these oddities.

Thank you for that clarification, I've been wanting to make a Lavasoul Ifrit character ever since I saw that option :)

After getting home from work, I've had some time to calm down and think.

To Mr. Compton and the rest of the PFS staff(I'm sorry, I don't know all of your names), good job in getting all this stuff on the Additional Resources so quickly. I apologize again for berating you guys. You have your reasons for making the decisions you make. Its just that, your team makes stuff that is so darn cool, its frustrating when you can't use it. I look forward to seeing the Martial Arts Handbook being added to the AR.

I am honestly glad to see that your team has made an attempt to streamline your process of moving new material to the AR.

Thank you, Zero!

We all have grumpy moments, but coming back to make a public apology shows great character and helps make these forums a much nicer place to be.

Happy holidays to you!

Hmm

I'd like to say thank you to the team for making the AR a priority. I've been a little down and negative on the boards on a number of topics as well, and I should really try harder not to be. Even if everything everyone wanted didn't get made legal, this is a huge help and very much appreciated.

Now, if only we could get a yes or no answer on whether the magic items in Adventurer's Armory 2 are legal. :)

Signal of screams <3

Thanks for the speedy reply on the Ganzi case - and for getting the AR up to date, which is really awesome.

The boon seems OK, though I'd obviously hope that the choice of a second oddity would be permanent (giving you 2 permanent oddities instead of 1 and limited number of uses for an additional one), that could result in some very interesting choices/builds, but, I can see how it might be a bit too much.

Is there any chance of either letting us know what was it in the Warrior Poet that led to banning it, or better yet, a chance of maybe reviewing it's ban and seeing if it could be modified to work within PFS? (for example, if the Finesse Glaive & Naginata were problematic, then removing those options instead of the whole archetype)?

I know a lot of players were looking forward to a dex-based samurai archetype, and I think it was probably the single most anticipated thing in the whole set of books.

I'm really interested in getting that Feather touch monk archtype available in PFS. In fact, it seems the PERFECT archtype for a group of people that (supposedly) more interested in the exploration than the killing.

Edit: well, poop, my stars aren't showing. Oh well.

Woot Signal of Screams! Just received my books in the mail (my first since subscribing to the APs) and excited to run it after the Aeon Throne!

Also thank you for the content warning and the explanation about running horror games, it's definitely something that I will chat to my players about before we start and lay out some guidelines with them so that's much appreciated that there is help with that!

Any chance we can get a Jenga tower? ;)

Tommi (and others who have asked):

Typically speaking the team does not comment on reasoning behind a decision to ban/restrict/alter a given item, because it leads to an expanded discussion that runs around in circles.

My experience on the boards has been that with rare exception this is the best route.

Someone who truly wants (or does NOT want) a given thing usually pulls together a very strong compelling argument across as many resources as are available, highlighting both the negative effects of a given addition as well as the positive ones and the impact it would have on the campaign as a whole.

For example, the Lore Warden implementation was based on player feedback, and there are other items that have been head-scratchers that someone coherently and concisely put together a package on that have either been subsequently banned and/or added to the Additional Resources/Campaign Clarifications.

The important thing is to keep personal opinion and perspective out of the presentation/proposal as much as possible, because it makes noise but doesn't help present the case.

Some passion is good, though.

Your powerful chaotic influence allows you to manifest an additional oddity several times. As a free action, you can record the name of the adventure you are playing on this boon’s Chronicle sheet to gain a second legal ganzi oddity for 1 hour. You can only have two ganzi oddities at a time, and you can only gain additional oddities in this way three times.

I like the idea of this compromise, though it seems a bit... underpowered? (Really not trying to sound like a munchkin). I would propose the following:

I think either of these are reasonable and not too over-powering to lead to Ganzi characters that are out of balance.

Assuming this all works, then we’ll also be reviewing (and likely removing) the listed ban of the chaos champion and weaponplay oddities. In the meantime, do not modify any ganzi PCs who have these oddities.

This is a big one for me, because I've already got my Ganzi up to level 3 with a planned build that heavily relies on having that martial weapon proficiency and access to the fighter feats

Another option, if you feel Weaponplay and Chaos Champion are too powerful, is to only allow access to those two oddities if a player uses a second Ganzi boon (and maybe choosing one of these oddities is an alternative to the ability to gain a second oddity on some occasions).

If we're banning archetypes for being absolutely broken dips, can we ban inspired blade? 5 out of 5 investigators I've had at my tables have the exact same one-level dip - one level of inspired blade for parry and Fencing Grace. It's the most flagrant example of such a "dip" since one level of crossblooded (draconic/orc) sorcerer.

For what it's worth, I think the biggest culprit goes back to the Swashbuckler's original design. Parry is, in my opinion, worth being a lategame of not capstone ability, and the fact that you front load it means that the class' greatest contribution to the game is a 1 level dip, regardless of class.

...then again, it also gets you Weapon Focus as a bonus feat, so it's pretty much "Fighter Plus." But hey, in all honesty we need more of that in the game. Pathfinder isn't anime enough, dangit.

For example, the Lore Warden implementation was based on player feedback, and there are other items that have been head-scratchers that someone coherently and concisely put together a package on that have either been subsequently banned and/or added to the Additional Resources/Campaign Clarifications.

Kalindlara wrote:

If we're banning archetypes for being absolutely broken dips, can we ban inspired blade? 5 out of 5 investigators I've had at my tables have the exact same one-level dip - one level of inspired blade for parry and Fencing Grace. It's the most flagrant example of such a "dip" since one level of crossblooded (draconic/orc) sorcerer.

For what it's worth, I think the biggest culprit goes back to the Swashbuckler's original design. Parry is, in my opinion, worth being a lategame of not capstone ability, and the fact that you front load it means that the class' greatest contribution to the game is a 1 level dip, regardless of class.

...then again, it also gets you Weapon Focus as a bonus feat, so it's pretty much "Fighter Plus." But hey, in all honesty we need more of that in the game. Pathfinder isn't anime enough, dangit.

The issue isn't that the class is frontloaded but its missing other mechanics to make it interesting.

A large part of the issue is that its really convoluted to figure out how abusable something is because of the number of moving parts people have to contend with. Its possible to get flight at level 2 which you would think wouldn't be legal given that flight at that level is game breaking. The issue being is that short circuit the archetype's originally intention by literally eating a stuffed bird.

Inspired Blade is even more front loaded than regular Swashbuckler. Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, and an INT+CHA-based Panache pool with Opportune Parry/Riposte, while being +1 BAB, d10 HP, etc. It's true a lot of Investigators might dump CHA, but if not that's plenty of panache at level 1 without needing more levels in the class. You can have Slashing Grace at level 1 with a feat to spare if you're Human.

I'm not for banning it, but it is an extremely good dip. My Investigator doesn't have it, but I took it on my weird attempt at a 3/4 BAB melee witch/evangelist.

Inspired Blade is even more front loaded than regular Swashbuckler. Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, and an INT+CHA-based Panache pool with Opportune Parry/Riposte, while being +1 BAB, d10 HP, etc. It's true a lot of Investigators might dump CHA, but if not that's plenty of panache at level 1 without needing more levels in the class. You can have Slashing Grace at level 1 with a feat to spare if you're Human.

I'm not for banning it, but it is an extremely good dip. My Investigator doesn't have it, but I took it on my weird attempt at a 3/4 BAB melee witch/evangelist.

I took it as a level 1 dip for my mesmerist character. While I'd fairly obviously prefer that it not be banned, I can certainly understand the pro-ban position.

The dip isn't that overpowered. Parry is clearly an early good thing, but the more the character raises on levels, the more the ability might be negated for various reasons, from size penalties to the need to keep a decent Armor Class. One could parry only to grab the extra AoO, but it is underusing the ability to currently avoid the said hit.

That said, being able to start with Fencing Grace online with an extra feat to spare is never bad. The Lore Warden controversy is precisely why the nerf wasn't such a bad decision. Lots of bad names have been thrown. The following uproar was a little (euphemism) out of proportions. It sounds easy to say from a couch, but is it difficult to find a go-around ? The character being very dependant of that, it indicates something is wrong.

While I do hope the archetype won't ending up banned, I won't lose sleep either if it is.

Expanding about the surge of Inspired Blade dips, while on average I won't dispute there are lots of these, I'm inclined to think it's also about local groups' mindsets. I'm myself not seeing a lot of these in the group where I play. Maybe three or four characters at most out of several hundred, and I'm the only player to attempt (and still currently playing it) an Inspired as solo-classed. What I often hear : " That doesn't erase the fact that the class is one of the worst glass cannons in PF, and being only a dip doesn't completely erase that weakness. "

IMO, Inspired Blades really turn on at level 5, and if you're going to dip for the abilities at first level, I say just commit to the archetype.

It is by no means the only powerful 1-level dip, even from the ACG. I’ve taken a level of Brawler on several characters, because improved unarmed strike and martial flexibility for a level are good. Though I’m more likely to take a second level in that situation for flurry and a bonus feat.

The dip isn't that overpowered. Parry is clearly an early good thing, but the more the character raises on levels, the more the ability might be negated for various reasons, from size penalties to the need to keep a decent Armor Class. One could parry only to grab the extra AoO, but it is underusing the ability to currently avoid the said hit.

That said, being able to start with Fencing Grace online with an extra feat to spare is never bad. The Lore Warden controversy is precisely why the nerf wasn't such a bad decision. Lots of bad names have been thrown. The following uproar was a little (euphemism) out of proportions. It sounds easy to say from a couch, but is it difficult to find a go-around ? The character being very dependant of that, it indicates something is wrong.

While I do hope the archetype won't ending up banned, I won't lose sleep either if it is.

Expanding about the surge of Inspired Blade dips, while on average I won't dispute there are lots of these, I'm inclined to think it's also about local groups' mindsets. I'm myself not seeing a lot of these in the group where I play. Maybe three or four characters at most out of several hundred, and I'm the only player to attempt (and still currently playing it) an Inspired as solo-classed. What I often hear : " That doesn't erase the fact that the class is one of the worst glass cannons in PF, and being only a dip doesn't completely erase that weakness. "

Actually dipping into other classes completely absolves it of any glass cannon issues. The Investigator is one of the more tankiest classes in the game because you have the ability to boost AC, attack, saves through three and four different ways. Remember it's a psuedo full (5/4) BAB when you take it's buffs into account. The real fundamental issue why all but one Swashbuckler archetype is only ok is that it locks you into a single weapon. Every single dex to damage build I've seen runs into that issue. It's also relatively weak compared to other builds.

I wanted to chime in here again to ask if there are any updates regarding revisions to the Ganzi oddity rules in Additional Resources as well as those who have used two boons to make a Ganzi.

A proposed alternate benefit for assigning two ganzi boons to a PC wrote:

Your powerful chaotic influence allows you to manifest an additional oddity several times. As a free action, you can record the name of the adventure you are playing on this boon’s Chronicle sheet to gain a second legal ganzi oddity for 1 hour. You can only have two ganzi oddities at a time, and you can only gain additional oddities in this way three times.

I like the idea of this compromise, though it seems a bit... underpowered? (Really not trying to sound like a munchkin). I would propose the following:

...allow the second oddity to persist for an entire scenario, and limit this action to three times across the lifetime of the character.

I'm updating the Additional Resources files with the January products now, and the team liked your quoted revision. I'll make a new thread posting it so that it's easier for people to find.

I'd like to say thank you to the team for making the AR a priority. I've been a little down and negative on the boards on a number of topics as well, and I should really try harder not to be. Even if everything everyone wanted didn't get made legal, this is a huge help and very much appreciated.

Now, if only we could get a yes or no answer on whether the magic items in Adventurer's Armory 2 are legal. :)

Oh, I hadn't known that that was an ambiguity, but yes, those magic items (I'm seeing them on page 23) are legal. I'm adding in "...and magic items" to the Equipment entry of Adventurer's Armory 2.

Awesome! Thanks!

John,

Any chance you could get some folks to take another look at the Oozemorph archetype for the Shifter? Right now, RAW the errata to the shifter gets overwritten for the Oozemorph since it replaces Wildshape and Shifter Claws instead of modifying those abilities...so Oozemorphs only get a 1 hour adventuring day until level 4, and their Morphic Weapons never bypass DR or scale in damage. Oozemorphs also lose access to any Wildshape related feats since they replace Wildshape instead of modifying it.

Thanks

I'm updating the Additional Resources files with the January products now, and the team liked your quoted revision. I'll make a new thread posting it so that it's easier for people to find.

I helped! \o/

Thanks for the update, John!

Joe Bouchard wrote:

A proposed alternate benefit for assigning two ganzi boons to a PC wrote:

Your powerful chaotic influence allows you to manifest an additional oddity several times. As a free action, you can record the name of the adventure you are playing on this boon’s Chronicle sheet to gain a second legal ganzi oddity for 1 hour. You can only have two ganzi oddities at a time, and you can only gain additional oddities in this way three times.

I like the idea of this compromise, though it seems a bit... underpowered? (Really not trying to sound like a munchkin). I would propose the following:

...allow the second oddity to persist for an entire scenario, and limit this action to three times across the lifetime of the character.

I'm updating the Additional Resources files with the January products now, and the team liked your quoted revision. I'll make a new thread posting it so that it's easier for people to find.

Today's blog includes a formal resolution for the ganzi replacement boon benefit.