Advanced Class Guide Preview: Skald

Tuesday, July 8, 2014

The savage warrior whose warcries and fury inspire his allies to great deeds. The respected keeper of epics and histories of a bloody and glorious past. Even before the Advanced Class Guide, the skald lurked in our collective fantasies, though he often manifested in different ways. A multiclass character here, an archetype there. But there was never really a dedicated class that captured the fury and power of the skald, until now. The skald was an easy fit for Golarion. I mean, we have the Ulfen, whose very language is called Skald, and there's plenty of other cultures where it's easy to see these fearsome and mighty battle leaders replacing the more refined and classical bard of the Lem variety.


Illustration by Ramon Puasa Jr

So the first playtest version unleashed the skald to all of you (and me!) to test out in your games. Right from the start, the skald was able to cast bard spells, wield any weapon he wants, and inspire a barbarian rage in his allies, even giving them the exciting boost of all the skald's rage powers. Visions of entire parties surrounded by spirit totems or clawed and pouncing soared through our collective heads, and the playtest began! But right away, all the playtesters started running into the same problem—the number of characters who desired the rage's advantages enough to be willing to risk the fatigue at the end were often too few, especially compared to how many could benefit from the bard. Not only the spellcasters, who couldn't cast their spells, were balking at the invitation to a rage-filled bloodbath. The archers, who needed adaptive bows to gain anything from the Strength but feared the -3 penalty to hit they would take from fatigue, were also quick to pass.

So the skald went back to the forge and began hammering himself a new set of tools while singing epics sadly to himself. And he emerged for round 2 of the playtest with a shiny new way to give out rage. Now party members could accept the rage on a round by round basis, with no commitment to staying enraged the entire song and without the fear of fatigue when the rage ends. Suddenly, the siren's call of fury became too much, and there were tales of archers (and even occasionally primary spellcasters eager for the rage powers' benefits) accepting the skald's offer to lose themselves to their primal instincts for a while. But still, the playtesters forged onward, providing feedback on the versatility of the skald and asking for more variety in the skald's song choices.

And the final version delivers! When it comes to both performances and skills, he is more versatile than ever before. He has three new song choices, the most metal of which is clearly his 14th level song of the fallen. You see, the trouble with being the support character is that sometimes the bad guys decide to kill your allies and you don't really have anyone to support. Too often inconvenienced by the deaths of his comrades, the skald has come up with a workaround, powered by the sheer fury of his raging song. He can revive any number of allies with this song, though if he's keeping the entire alive as deathless einherjar, he's going to run out of rounds of performance fairly quickly (since it costs a number of rounds of performance equal to the number of revived allies). And the allies are staggered, so they're not at their peak performance—but hey, it's a better way of killing time than waiting in line in the Boneyard!

But that's not the end of the skald's drum solo! Have you ever thought that it wasn't fair how linnorms have death curses but not your character. I mean, you put lots of time into building that character. That darn NPC deserves to suffer for killing Lord Kickass III. With the new skald rage powers (which anyone with rage powers can select), you too can bestow a horrific death curse on your enemies.

And there's archetypes too. The fated champion stares down the future without fear for what it might hold, with fate-twisting powers and supernatural insights. The herald of the horn forms an arcane bond with a horn (potentially an enormous horn nearly as big as his own body, according to the art). He doesn't compose elaborate kennings; he blows that sucker and crazy things happen! The spell warrior sends his rage into your weapon instead of your head, and his very spells are a weapon with which to do battle with those of enemy spellcasters. And the totemic skald channels the power of a totem animal into himself and his allies; you want to put the "bear" in ber-serker? Play this guy!

So to recap: If bards are your classical virtuosos who channel the tales of the mythical Orpheus, skalds are their metal cousins who channel the tales of poets with attitudes more like the Norse Bragi, who threatens to decapitate people who insult his courage. If that's what you've been waiting for since forever, once you get your hands on the book, roar in visceral triumph as you paw your way immediately to page 49 and feast upon the skald in all his glory.

Mark Seifter
Designer

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Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ramon Puasa Jr Skald
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I think the transforming instrument/weapon is the better idea/path to take for that particular niche myself as well. Very Metal tho!


Insain Dragoon wrote:

In one game I had a Half orc Bard who worshiped Gorum. He had an Arcane Bonded Great axe that, with GM permission, was able to sprout guitar strings and was fluffed to sound like an electric guitar.

My GMs reasoning for allowing this was "That the only effect it will have is allowing your character to be even cooler"

Sounds like the shadow axe from A Bard's Tale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jmoNao90kI


Note to self: Start writing some poetry or learn some songs to sing or hum when playing a skald.

Edit: Get better at writing poetry.


Blazej wrote:
Realism is important to keep the game grounded. Once you get rid of that the game tends to get sillier or make magic feel more mundane. If realism dies, there there is nothing fantastic.

I agree with you on this one, but there are ways of making it realistic and what people perceive as realistic varies from person to person.

I have friends that like role playing. They like Cthulhu, but they don’t like Pathfinder because Pathfinder isn’t “realistic enough”, especially the party with magic and magic user. When I point out to them that Cthulhu also have magic element and that in Cthulhu any characters can use magic they just say that Cthulhu is still more realistic. I like both games, but I can see why one would like one game over the other. So yes, what one perceives as realism may not be shared by another.

Also there are ways to create weapon that be used to perform with without them being silly. I think that there was a singing sword that elves could use in 3rd edition. The sword didn’t actually sing, but when you wielded it created a sound or something.

What I really hope is that the Skald will help the Bard getting some new toys. The track record so far when it comes to meaningful magic items for Bards is Zero. Meaningful perform feats is another problem. There is Discordant Voice and lingering performance, but beyond that nothing.

With the Skald and Bard sharing some class features I really hope both classes getting some love from the Design team, because frankly it seems like they haven’t been interested in the Bard. I truly hope this doesn’t continue because if it does, the Skald is going to get the same treatment.

Conclusion is sadly that we probably won’t get any cool weapons that can be used as instruments, or used to perform with, so if I were you I wouldn’t worry too much.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

*still wishing for guitar-axe*


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MagusJanus wrote:
AM SKALD wrote:
Eben TheQuiet wrote:
Blazej wrote:

Some stuff

yackety schmackety

other important stuff

words

... attacking blades to a guitar and calling it an axe.

YES! IN!
\m/
Better yet, convert a battleaxe into a guitar.

I'll see if I can go you one better again.

What about a redeemed Vrock Paladin / Skald multiclass who wields a greataxe-turned-guitar in battle?

Maybe even twist it to a follower of Gorum, if you're okay with Paladins of Gorum. Given the Deific Obedience:

Spoiler:
Dress yourself in the heaviest set of metal armor you own. Shout your oath of loyalty to Gorum at the top of your lungs, punctuating each pause for breath by smashing your weapon against a shield or against your armor-clad body. After your oath is done, kneel on one knee with your weapon resting against your shoulder. Recite your victories in battle in a sonorous voice until the time for your obedience is done.

How does that sound?


Zark wrote:
Blazej wrote:
Realism is important to keep the game grounded. Once you get rid of that the game tends to get sillier or make magic feel more mundane. If realism dies, there there is nothing fantastic.

I agree with you on this one, but there are ways of making it realistic and what people perceive as realistic varies from person to person.

I have friends that like role playing. They like Cthulhu, but they don’t like Pathfinder because Pathfinder isn’t “realistic enough”, especially the party with magic and magic user. When I point out to them that Cthulhu also have magic element and that in Cthulhu any characters can use magic they just say that Cthulhu is still more realistic. I like both games, but I can see why one would like one game over the other. So yes, what one perceives as realism may not be shared by another.

I understand that there are different degrees of realism and that what is realistic for one group might not be for another (and visa versa). My response there was not to say that it wasn't realistic but that to argue against the idea that realism is contrary to fun even for weapons in this fantasy setting. As you brought up, it is a matter of taste, but for me making things more realistic or bringing other connections to the real work improve my enjoyment of the game.

A couple examples come to mind that hopefully clear up my thought process.

The first is comes from a Legacy of Fire campaign I was running. ONe of the players was running with a fighter and to emphasize crits and maximize the bonuses from his feats he went with wielding a rapier in each hand. This seemed silly to me because it didn't make sense to me. I was allowing it because there was nothing mechanically broken about it, but I had a hard time picturing how he would be using them. I then poked around the Internet and found that using two rapiers is an actual dueling style called case of rapiers (among other names it may have). It was more of a fencing style so probably not something I would see in a battle, but I was able to watch a few videos of how the style worked out and it make the campaign a lot more enjoyable for me just for the fact that the player had chosen a pair of two weapons that I hadn't expected, but really existed in some fashion such that I could watch many real videos of it playing out.

Another time more relavent to the situation here was when I was going through the original Pathfinder Campaign Setting book several years back. I got to the section on regional/world specific weapons and armor and saw the description of the urumi. A flexible blade that was akin to a metal whip. My first reaction was that was the silly weapon both in that it was hard to believe anyone would actually wield and the design was implausible. My second reaction was to Google it and realize that the urumi is a real weapon. Finding out about that made me a lot more interested in the urumi and sent me from scoffing at the weapon to wanting to make a character that wielded one.

I'm keeping that mind in this discussion, which is why I did spend about an hour or so searching for musical instruments that doubled as weapons.

In both those cases the reason I liked them so much was less that I suddenly found them realistic, but both were odd and pushed me to do more research and learn more random aspects of the world that I would have never known about otherwise.

Zark wrote:
Conclusion is sadly that we probably won’t get any cool weapons that can be used as instruments, or used to perform with, so if I were you I wouldn’t worry too much.

I'm not worried at all in any case. If Paizo creates something I don't like, that doesn't change anything for me. There already a number of items I'm worried about for my games that easily overshadow a character wielding a violen with a bladed bow and throwing triangles (like bad GMs, bad players, players fighting, etc.).

However, as I set up before, I would love to see bardic/skald instruments that actually exist or draw from real world mythology (as well as magical items that feel like they could have been drawn from mythology).


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zergtitan wrote:
*still wishing for guitar-axe*

It can be done, Check out the Pure Steam Campaign Setting, in the equipment section.

PS. Obviously not PFS applicable.


I wonder if the Skald should turn this into a guitar? bluderbuss, battle axe, guitar? What's not to love?


Isn't there the weapon modification for undines to make a weapon's shaft hollow? Its a didgeridoo. Just add some holes and you got a flute/pipe.
Its not a guitar but a combat capable musical instrument.


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MagusJanus wrote:
AM SKALD wrote:
Eben TheQuiet wrote:
Blazej wrote:

Some stuff

yackety schmackety

other important stuff

words

... attacking blades to a guitar and calling it an axe.

YES! IN!
\m/
Better yet, convert a battleaxe into a guitar.

Better yet, just carry disposable guitars, using them as clubs while yelling "El Kabong!"


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Alleran wrote:
MagusJanus wrote:
AM SKALD wrote:
Eben TheQuiet wrote:
Blazej wrote:

Some stuff

yackety schmackety

other important stuff

words

... attacking blades to a guitar and calling it an axe.

YES! IN!
\m/
Better yet, convert a battleaxe into a guitar.

I'll see if I can go you one better again.

What about a redeemed Vrock Paladin / Skald multiclass who wields a greataxe-turned-guitar in battle?

Maybe even twist it to a follower of Gorum, if you're okay with Paladins of Gorum. Given the Deific Obedience:

** spoiler omitted **

How does that sound?

Like a Manowar song. =)

Liberty's Edge

The Shoanti have a spear that can also be played as a musical instrument, and yes, I already have a skald build for PFS that uses it...


You... don't really need there to be an official version to use your weapon as a musical instrument. There's already Bards using Perform: Sing/Dance/Oratory to inspire courage with no instrument, it wouldn't be disruptive at all to carry a greataxe and tell your GM it has strings on it and you can charge it with magic to make it sound like a bass guitar.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

All I want is something like this.


You can also use a Glamered weapon to take on an appearance of another object (masterwork instrument). Once you use it in combat, it is suppressed for 1 minute.

Otherwise you can logically assume, that as an arcane class, that there are bards in the world possessed with crafting the perfect instrument - one that will always be in tune. Additionally, crafting an instrument/weapon hybrid may not be so far fetched as one might think.

Durability:
One might think that due to their hollow and wooden nature, string instruments such as lutes, violins, and guitars simply could not be feasible weapons. However, if we use a "solid body" instrument (think electric guitar vs acoustic), we have a much more suitable base. The neck of the guitar would be much more akin to the shaft of an axe or polearm.

Sound:
So we have a comparatively acceptable base for a study weapon. Now we have to make the instrument sound good. For this, let's examine how an electric guitar works. An electric guitar (or any electric string instrument) works by registering the vibrations of the strings. These vibrations are converted into an electric signal that is then amplified to make the sound of electric guitars as we know them.

Since the notes a string instrument produces is based off of how fast the string vibrates, this allows the device to register all of the different possible notes. Sounds can be created by a simple cantrip, Ghost Sound (which can create any sound of your choosing). If a weapon can be imbued with the fire power of a Fireball spell to gain the Flaming property, why can't items be imbued with Ghost Sound to have them produced desired sounds (such as notes played from a particular instrument)?

Keeping it in Tune:
So we have a sturdy base and a way to create the sounds we want. Now we just need a way to keep the thing in tune. There's a spell for that, Sculpt Sound. This can allow you to transform sounds into other sounds. So if Ghost Sound on our guitar/axe hybrid is set for each string to make the sound of a basic string, we can have various Sculpt Sounds effects which activate according to where one applies pressure to the neck (like when actually playing a guitar or any string instrument to get a different note).

With Ghost Sound and Sculpt Sound combined, you should be able to turn anything into a masterful sounding musical instrument. That being said, you shouldn't have instrument/weapon hybrids everywhere. They should be special, awesome, and insanely rare (unless someone is playing a near insane bard with crafting feats and high Int that would pull off crazy stunts like this anyway).

Oh, and yes I do have too much time on my hands and I have given this a lot of thought in the past.


Zark wrote:

[...]What I really hope is that the Skald will help the Bard getting some new toys. The track record so far when it comes to meaningful magic items for Bards is Zero. Meaningful perform feats is another problem. There is Discordant Voice and lingering performance, but beyond that nothing.

With the Skald and Bard sharing some class features I really hope both classes getting some love from the Design team, because frankly it seems like they haven’t been interested in the Bard. I truly hope this doesn’t continue because if it does, the Skald is going to get the same treatment.

[...]

Hang on.

With Mark (and Stephen) in the Design team now this will probably change :D

Grand Lodge

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Mark Seifter wrote:
David Neilson wrote:
I am hoping they have a few Barbarian/Skald teamwork feats, to let you circumvent some of the rage restrictions. Maybe even something that lets the Barbarian feed rage back to the Skald, or something crazy like that.
Without revealing anything about why, I will just say--A Skald20 and a Barbarian20, even if you stripped away the Mythic tiers they're supposed to have, would be so ridiculously metal of a duo that they would form the nucleus of a party that could likely take on the finale of Wrath of the Righteous.

Something like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lovX7l1rVZw&feature=kp

Silver Crusade

Zark wrote:


What I really hope is that the Skald will help the Bard getting some new toys. The track record so far when it comes to meaningful magic items for Bards is Zero. Meaningful perform feats is another problem. There is Discordant Voice and lingering performance, but beyond that nothing.

Nonsense. The bards get LOTS of toys right now. Harmonic performance, verstatile performance are wonderful feats.

this is arguably broken its such a cool bard item.

Various feats and traits (eg, Shelyns Deific Obedience).

Pageant of the Peacock is very definitely absurdly broken.

Bards are VERY good at doing what they set out to do. A wide range of characters can be built using the chassis, all quite effective.


pauljathome wrote:
Zark wrote:


What I really hope is that the Skald will help the Bard getting some new toys. The track record so far when it comes to meaningful magic items for Bards is Zero. Meaningful perform feats is another problem. There is Discordant Voice and lingering performance, but beyond that nothing.

Nonsense.

edit:

you haven’t proved me wrong.
pauljathome wrote:


The bards get LOTS of toys right now.

Compared to what?

pauljathome wrote:


Harmonic performance

There is no such feat.

Or do you mean Harmonic Spell? It is not part of the core books and I would hardly call it wonderful , it isn’t even good.

At low levels you don’t have that many spells and you don’t have that many performances you can swap between, by level 7 the feat is obsolete.

pauljathome wrote:


verstatile performance

I’m not aware of any such feat.

pauljathome wrote:

this is arguably broken its such a cool bard item.

Anything but broken.

Usles if you use any weapon but longspear and the item comes with a lot of “ifs” and “but”. Even if you use a longspear your GM have to be kind enough to let you attack with the spear and wield the banner at the same time otherwise it is pretty lame. By the time you can afford this you will be having better things to than wielding a banner.
pauljathome wrote:

Various feats and traits (eg, Shelyns Deific Obedience).

Other classes also get access to "Various feats and traits"

Deific Obedience is from another non-core book. Haven’t got my Inner Sea Gods yet, but I will check it out.

pauljathome wrote:

Pageant of the Peacock is very definitely absurdly broken.

Another non-core book.

This is just a bonus on some skill checks. Hardly broken.
pauljathome wrote:

Bards are VERY good at doing what they set out to do. A wide range of characters can be built using the chassis, all quite effective.

You are not in a position to tell me or others what Bards are set out to do.

Also, my post was aimed at options, such as magic items and feats, not at the class itself.

So far you haven’t proved a thing. Just beacuse you are keen on using the Word Broken, the word don't make your argument true.

If you want to continue this discussion, create a new thread and PM me. Let’s not threadjack this thread.

edit:
It would be cool if you could link me to the verstatile performance feat. I haven't been able to find that feat.


Versatile Performance is a Bard class ability mate.

While I'd love to see some cool Bard goodies too saying Bards don't get any wonderful toys is kinda silly. Bards have plenty of wonderful toys. They just all come built into the class itself, and it has gotten very few NEW toys to play with over the years that are worth much (though Pageant of the Peacock is basically the best thing for a skill monkey ever created).


Rynjin wrote:
Versatile Performance is a Bard class ability mate.

I Know. My post was about new toys, as in new feats or new magic item that are designen for the Bard/Skald.

Rynjin wrote:


While I'd love to see some cool Bard goodies too saying Bards don't get any wonderful toys is kinda silly. Bards have plenty of wonderful toys. They just all come built into the class itself, and it has gotten very few NEW toys to play with over the years that are worth much (though Pageant of the Peacock is basically the best thing for a skill monkey ever created).

As pointed out above we are not talking abort the Bard, but new toys for the Bard and the Skald.

Edit:
They are especially lackning new stuff in the core book line.

Silver Crusade

Zark wrote:
pauljathome wrote:


Nonsense.

Another non-core book.

This is just a bonus on some skill checks. Hardly broken.
pauljathome wrote:

Bards are VERY good at doing what they set out to do.

You are not in a position to tell me or others what Bards are set out to do.

I don't care what you set out to accomplish as a bard. The bard is an extremely versatile class that can take on many functions and do them well.

Assuming that what you are trying to do is something the bard is good at (a wide range but a long way from a complete range. For example, a Bard is never going to be a very good summoner) you are provided a wide range of feats, magic items, traits and archetypes to accomplish your goal.

It wasn't at all clear that you were trying to restrict your argument to core books. I neither know nor care whether something is in a core book. Maybe you are right in that case.


pauljathome wrote:
stuff

You are still trying to pick a fight in this thread?

Please take it elsewhere, and If you do bother with actually starting a new thread please get the facts right at least.

================================

Now to get this thread back on track, as in discussing the Skald, I agree with Aaron Scott 139 (and others)

Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
Can we agree that, as a class, this one in particular should get instruments that also work as weapons? Lute axe, flute dagger, etc.

Can we agree that, as a class, this one in particular should get instruments that also work as weapons? Lute axe, flute dagger, etc.

I think that would be a cool idea for the Skald (and for the Bard).


Zark wrote:

Can we agree that, as a class, this one in particular should get instruments that also work as weapons? Lute axe, flute dagger, etc.

That sounds cheesy as hell, but I can certainly see Paizo do it. Whether Bards or skalds need it is, of course, a matter of opinion, but I certainly don't think they do.


I think it really depends on the execution. The totem spear is cool, the banjo-mace or adamantine maraca... Not so much.


So...it more or less invalidates the Bard.

Gotcha.


Wasted wrote:

So...it more or less invalidates the Bard.

Gotcha.

Have you read the ACG playtest? How in the world does it invalidate the Bard?

Liberty's Edge

Wasted wrote:

So...it more or less invalidates the Bard.

Gotcha.

Huh? Bard's a better buffing class for anything but melee characters (and almost as good for melee characters) has better skills, and is more or less equal in personal combat. Bard's still solid.

Grand Lodge

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There needs to be Thunderstone powered instruments, like the Thunderstone powered Piston Maul.

We have guns, Wizards, and robots.

Something like a electric guitar(or bass) is not that far a stretch.

Grand Lodge

Can the Skald use Perform whilst under the effects of Raging Song?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Can the Skald use Perform whilst under the effects of Raging Song?

Did you mean bard? Because I really also need to know if a Bard and a Skald can sing together and buff eachother?


Or perform the most metal cover of phantom of the opera ever.


Also, I'd love a power ranger esque flute dagger but only if it wasn't playable after a crit due to being stuffed with Gore ;)


Insain Dragoon wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Can the Skald use Perform whilst under the effects of Raging Song?
Did you mean bard? Because I really also need to know if a Bard and a Skald can sing together and buff eachother?

Hit the Faq

link to Faq question on this topic

Dark Archive

Torbyne wrote:
Also, I'd love a power ranger esque flute dagger but only if it wasn't playable after a crit due to being stuffed with Gore ;)

I want an instrument-weapon that is some sort of unholy crossbreed of a bull-roarer and a rope dart or kyoketsu-shoge or something.

Basically a bull-roarer with a knife on the end. Woom, woom, woom *stab!*

Grand Lodge

Insain Dragoon wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Can the Skald use Perform whilst under the effects of Raging Song?
Did you mean bard? Because I really also need to know if a Bard and a Skald can sing together and buff eachother?

I mean the Skald.

Raging Song wrote:
While under the effects of raging song, allies cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.

You count as your own ally. Perform is a charisma based skill.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Can the Skald use Perform whilst under the effects of Raging Song?
Did you mean bard? Because I really also need to know if a Bard and a Skald can sing together and buff eachother?

I mean the Skald.

Raging Song wrote:
While under the effects of raging song, allies cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
You count as your own ally. Perform is a charisma based skill.

Coulda sworn there was text in their saying Skalds were immune to the negative effects.


Anyway. I hope you both spread the word about the thread. It would be great if we could have an official answer.

Grand Lodge

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Zark wrote:
Anyway. I hope you both spread the word about the thread. It would be great if we could have an official answer.

Done.


Great! :-D


I hope there will be an Arcane Duelist archetype of this build available. That would be friggin hardcore, a half-orc Ulfen Skald Berserker or something.

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