Advanced Class Guide Preview: Skald

Tuesday, July 8, 2014

The savage warrior whose warcries and fury inspire his allies to great deeds. The respected keeper of epics and histories of a bloody and glorious past. Even before the Advanced Class Guide, the skald lurked in our collective fantasies, though he often manifested in different ways. A multiclass character here, an archetype there. But there was never really a dedicated class that captured the fury and power of the skald, until now. The skald was an easy fit for Golarion. I mean, we have the Ulfen, whose very language is called Skald, and there's plenty of other cultures where it's easy to see these fearsome and mighty battle leaders replacing the more refined and classical bard of the Lem variety.


Illustration by Ramon Puasa Jr

So the first playtest version unleashed the skald to all of you (and me!) to test out in your games. Right from the start, the skald was able to cast bard spells, wield any weapon he wants, and inspire a barbarian rage in his allies, even giving them the exciting boost of all the skald's rage powers. Visions of entire parties surrounded by spirit totems or clawed and pouncing soared through our collective heads, and the playtest began! But right away, all the playtesters started running into the same problem—the number of characters who desired the rage's advantages enough to be willing to risk the fatigue at the end were often too few, especially compared to how many could benefit from the bard. Not only the spellcasters, who couldn't cast their spells, were balking at the invitation to a rage-filled bloodbath. The archers, who needed adaptive bows to gain anything from the Strength but feared the -3 penalty to hit they would take from fatigue, were also quick to pass.

So the skald went back to the forge and began hammering himself a new set of tools while singing epics sadly to himself. And he emerged for round 2 of the playtest with a shiny new way to give out rage. Now party members could accept the rage on a round by round basis, with no commitment to staying enraged the entire song and without the fear of fatigue when the rage ends. Suddenly, the siren's call of fury became too much, and there were tales of archers (and even occasionally primary spellcasters eager for the rage powers' benefits) accepting the skald's offer to lose themselves to their primal instincts for a while. But still, the playtesters forged onward, providing feedback on the versatility of the skald and asking for more variety in the skald's song choices.

And the final version delivers! When it comes to both performances and skills, he is more versatile than ever before. He has three new song choices, the most metal of which is clearly his 14th level song of the fallen. You see, the trouble with being the support character is that sometimes the bad guys decide to kill your allies and you don't really have anyone to support. Too often inconvenienced by the deaths of his comrades, the skald has come up with a workaround, powered by the sheer fury of his raging song. He can revive any number of allies with this song, though if he's keeping the entire alive as deathless einherjar, he's going to run out of rounds of performance fairly quickly (since it costs a number of rounds of performance equal to the number of revived allies). And the allies are staggered, so they're not at their peak performance—but hey, it's a better way of killing time than waiting in line in the Boneyard!

But that's not the end of the skald's drum solo! Have you ever thought that it wasn't fair how linnorms have death curses but not your character. I mean, you put lots of time into building that character. That darn NPC deserves to suffer for killing Lord Kickass III. With the new skald rage powers (which anyone with rage powers can select), you too can bestow a horrific death curse on your enemies.

And there's archetypes too. The fated champion stares down the future without fear for what it might hold, with fate-twisting powers and supernatural insights. The herald of the horn forms an arcane bond with a horn (potentially an enormous horn nearly as big as his own body, according to the art). He doesn't compose elaborate kennings; he blows that sucker and crazy things happen! The spell warrior sends his rage into your weapon instead of your head, and his very spells are a weapon with which to do battle with those of enemy spellcasters. And the totemic skald channels the power of a totem animal into himself and his allies; you want to put the "bear" in ber-serker? Play this guy!

So to recap: If bards are your classical virtuosos who channel the tales of the mythical Orpheus, skalds are their metal cousins who channel the tales of poets with attitudes more like the Norse Bragi, who threatens to decapitate people who insult his courage. If that's what you've been waiting for since forever, once you get your hands on the book, roar in visceral triumph as you paw your way immediately to page 49 and feast upon the skald in all his glory.

Mark Seifter
Designer

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Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ramon Puasa Jr Skald
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Torbyne wrote:
Skald on Vocals, Abyssal Bloodrager on Percussion, Warpriest of Gorum on Bass, Infernal Sorcerer on guitar. (Oracle of the heavens as an alternate vocalist/pianist)

I heard of that band before. They're brutal...


How close are these finished versions to the beta versions from the download?


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This is not the greatest class in the world...

This is just a tribute...


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This class reminds me of my safe word when I was a masochist... boring


I fear like giving Rage Powers to everyone might step too much on the Barbarian's toes... Why play a Barbarian when this guy can give the whole party Rage Powers?

I'll admit that didn't take more than a fleeting glance at it, though, so maybe I'm missing something.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lemmy wrote:

I fear like giving Rage Powers to everyone might step too much on the Barbarian's toes... Why play a Barbarian when this guy can give the whole party Rage Powers?

I'll admit that didn't take more than a fleeting glance at it, though, so maybe I'm missing something.

Because Barbarians have full BAB, d12 hit dice, and if they are in a party with a Skald get even more rage powers and rounds of rage per day? A skald would supercharge a party barbarian.


The Barbarian gets a lot more rage powers. The Skald doesn't start getting them until 6 and only gets them every 3 levels without spending a feat.


Er, the Skald gets Rage Powers at 3rd level in the playtest (unless something was changed that I missed). So at 3rd, 6th, 9th etc, levels, he gets a Rage Power; this means that he could select Lesser Beast Totem at 3rd, Beast Totem at 6th, Superstition at 9th, and Greater Beast Totem at 12th and now you've got a crazy powerful ambush squad.

The Skald gets more powerful the more allies he has on the field, so pairing him up with someone who summons a lot can have some amazing returns. The Skald can do some crazy things if he takes some feats to help out with prereqs, like giving the entire party DR/6- and flight via Dragon Totem, or increased healing effects, invisibility purge and SR via Celestial Totem.

A Skald with the right rage powers could get pretty crazy...


I'm looking forward to making NPC Brute Squads involving the Skald myself.


Tels wrote:

Er, the Skald gets Rage Powers at 3rd level in the playtest (unless something was changed that I missed). So at 3rd, 6th, 9th etc, levels, he gets a Rage Power; this means that he could select Lesser Beast Totem at 3rd, Beast Totem at 6th, Superstition at 9th, and Greater Beast Totem at 12th and now you've got a crazy powerful ambush squad.

My bad.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Because Barbarians have full BAB, d12 hit dice, and if they are in a party with a Skald get even more rage powers and rounds of rage per day? A skald would supercharge a party barbarian.

Yeah, but why not be, say, a Ranger and get a bunch of Rage Powers anyway?

I'm under impression that if there is a Skald in the party, the Barbarian becomes redundant, unless the Skald gets access to Rage Powers later and/or Barbarians can use their own Rage Powers instead of/in addition to the ones granted by the Skald.


Lemmy wrote:
...the Barbarians can use their own Rage Powers instead of/in addition to the ones granted by the Skald.

That's exactly how it works.

I highly suggest you read up on the class before you denounce it.


I'm not "denouncing" it. I even admitted I didn't give it more than a quick look. I'm just voicing my worries, and I'm glad to know they are unnecessary.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Skald on Vocals, Abyssal Bloodrager on Percussion, Warpriest of Gorum on Bass, Infernal Sorcerer on guitar. (Oracle of the heavens as an alternate vocalist/pianist)
I heard of that band before. They're brutal...

I was thinking of Nightwish but I like yours too:)


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
...the Barbarians can use their own Rage Powers instead of/in addition to the ones granted by the Skald.

That's exactly how it works.

I highly suggest you read up on the class before you denounce it.

I'm not sure it can be use in addition to. The rules are kind of vague on that.

Play test document wrote:


If an ally has its own rage class ability (such as
barbarian’s rage or bloodrager’s bloodrage), she may
use the Strength, Constitution, and Will saving throw
bonuses, and AC penalties from that ability instead of
those from the raging song. However, raging song does
not allow the ally to activate abilities dependent on other
rage class abilities (such as rage powers, blood casting,
or bloodrager bloodlines); the ally must activate her own
rage class ability in order to use these dependent abilities.

I think an explicit clarification on how the class interacts with its parental classes would be good.

As far as I know they have not clarified if a bard can accept the
Raging song and still use bardic performances such as inspire courage.

It is obvious the bard can’t use knowledge skills and Bardic knowledge, but it is unclear if the Bard and Skald can use versatile performance during a Raging song.

My reading is that they can’t use versatile performance if it involves using a prohibited skill such as bluff, but they can use it if they want to use skills like acrobatics or sense motive.


So, if a Barbarian is in a Skald's party, he uses his own bonuses, but can't use his own Rage Powers? That means barbarians are a waste of space in any party that includes a Skald.

I honestly don't like the idea of someone giving the main features of another class to everyone around. It'd be just as bad as if the song gave everyone Weapon Training, Armor Training and a Bonus Combat feat for every 3 Skald levels.

Liberty's Edge

Lemmy wrote:
So, if a Barbarian is in a Skald's party, he uses his own bonuses, but can't use his own Rage Powers? That means barbarians are a waste of space in any party that includes a Skald.

Not precisely. Most of the time (1st-7th level, 11th-15th, and 20th), the Skald's Raging Song lags +2 Str and Con behind the Barbarian's Rage, making Raging Song better for them than for others (and letting them save Rage rounds) and if they're willing to spend those Rage rounds, the ability to stack Rage Powers can be pretty crazy if you coordinate. Totem stacking is now officially a thing, for example. As is the ability to turn Superstition on and off on a per round basis if it's the Skald who takes it.

Additionally, Barbarians are still much tougher than just about everyone else. Especially Invulnerable Ragers.

Is it quite an optimal combination? Probably not. Is it a workable one? I'd say so, yeah. Ditto Bloodragers, who can stack their Bloodline stuff and a selection of Rage Powers.

In PFS games, having a Skald and a Barbarian show up is gonna be one of the less optimal combos...but it could be pretty good with coordination.


Lemmy wrote:

So, if a Barbarian is in a Skald's party, he uses his own bonuses, but can't use his own Rage Powers? That means barbarians are a waste of space in any party that includes a Skald.

I honestly don't like the idea of someone giving the main features of another class to everyone around. It'd be just as bad as if the song gave everyone Weapon Training, Armor Training and a Bonus Combat feat for every 3 Skald levels.

Have you taken more than a fleeting glance at the class yet?


Checked the HeroLab version.


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Can we agree that, as a class, this one in particular should get instruments that also work as weapons? Lute axe, flute dagger, etc.

Shadow Lodge

I'm dying here. Every week I hope a Shaman preview and every week I cry Shaman tears.

I invested a chunk of time playtesting a Shaman and currently have it parked at level 5 until I know the changes.

Scarab Sages

Sammy T wrote:

I'm dying here. Every week I hope a Shaman preview and every week I cry Shaman tears.

I invested a chunk of time playtesting a Shaman and currently have it parked at level 5 until I know the changes.

Well I'm still around, and I even went on some adventures recently. Take from that what you will...


I am hoping they have a few Barbarian/Skald teamwork feats, to let you circumvent some of the rage restrictions. Maybe even something that lets the Barbarian feed rage back to the Skald, or something crazy like that.

Designer

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David Neilson wrote:
I am hoping they have a few Barbarian/Skald teamwork feats, to let you circumvent some of the rage restrictions. Maybe even something that lets the Barbarian feed rage back to the Skald, or something crazy like that.

Without revealing anything about why, I will just say--A Skald20 and a Barbarian20, even if you stripped away the Mythic tiers they're supposed to have, would be so ridiculously metal of a duo that they would form the nucleus of a party that could likely take on the finale of Wrath of the Righteous.


Is that because they would have a feat to add strength mod to perform (metal) and a feat to stack their rage mods together? Thus allowing them to actually strum the most metal guitar of the most metal gods of the demi-plane of metal? Possibly requiring the minor artifact, the Pick of Destiny which can be found in the ACG?


Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Shaman.

I tend to take some the trickiest classes to design. Its also why I usually end up with the dragons in Bestiaries. I am a glutton for punishment that way. Unfortunately this time around, I also ended up with the classes that were the hardest to balance.

That said, I dont want to derail this thread... so, moving on.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Gotcha, and thanks for reminding me on the shaman. Looking forward to seeing what you've come up with. :)

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

Advanced Class Guide Preview Schedule Update!

Everything is normal and is going smoothly.

Look forward to the Meet the Iconics story for the iconic skald tomorrow.

Next week, we might be previewing the brawler... or the shaman... or something else. Who knows? Certainly no one here has said.

There's nothing else to see here. Carry on.

http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkfhpg4LZu1qh59n0o1_500.gif

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
Can we agree that, as a class, this one in particular should get instruments that also work as weapons? Lute axe, flute dagger, etc.

Instruments as weapons is incredibly silly. Mostly because they would break far, far too easily. The Fragile weapon quality wouldn't begin to cover it.


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Technically there is a summon instrument spell, and I believe a trait that lets you use items you work with as a weapon. I could have sworn that someone mentioned creating El Kabong at some point on the boards. Admittedly it would basically be a disposable club, but its not impossible.


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Ross Byers wrote:
Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
Can we agree that, as a class, this one in particular should get instruments that also work as weapons? Lute axe, flute dagger, etc.
Instruments as weapons is incredibly silly. Mostly because they would break far, far too easily. The Fragile weapon quality wouldn't begin to cover it.

Oh dear realism is cropping into a fantasy game where things can be made from magical materials and wood can be hardened like steel.


Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
Can we agree that, as a class, this one in particular should get instruments that also work as weapons? Lute axe, flute dagger, etc.

How about a flute blowpipe?

Or a crossbow harp?

Or a drum mace?


Ross Byers wrote:
Instruments as weapons is incredibly silly. Mostly because they would break far, far too easily. The Fragile weapon quality wouldn't begin to cover it.

Someone hasn't seen Kung-Fu Hustle, I take it? :D

(Go to about the 2 minute mark)

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Scavion wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
Can we agree that, as a class, this one in particular should get instruments that also work as weapons? Lute axe, flute dagger, etc.
Instruments as weapons is incredibly silly. Mostly because they would break far, far too easily. The Fragile weapon quality wouldn't begin to cover it.
Oh dear realism is cropping into a fantasy game where things can be made from magical materials and wood can be hardened like steel.

All of which would change the sound produced by the instrument. A darkwood or ironwood guitar wouldn't resonate properly, for instance.

There is a reason we still make trumpets out of brass, even though steel is stronger AND cheaper.

Magic, on the otherhand, explains a great deal of things, but a magical lute that has been reinforced to be usable as a weapon is a different thing than just adding 'lute axe' as a Skald proficiency.

Mostly, though, I object to the attitude that you can stick a pointy bit of metal to the end of an arbitrary piece equipment of all of a sudden it's a new martial or exotic weapon.


Ross Byers wrote:
Scavion wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
Can we agree that, as a class, this one in particular should get instruments that also work as weapons? Lute axe, flute dagger, etc.
Instruments as weapons is incredibly silly. Mostly because they would break far, far too easily. The Fragile weapon quality wouldn't begin to cover it.
Oh dear realism is cropping into a fantasy game where things can be made from magical materials and wood can be hardened like steel.

All of which would change the sound produced by the instrument. A darkwood or ironwood guitar wouldn't resonate properly, for instance.

There is a reason we still make trumpets out of brass, even though steel is stronger AND cheaper.

Magic. M-A-G-I-C

The stuff that makes things work even though it doesn't make sense eh?

Also I do believe Darkwood and Ironwood has no text bearing that it changes other properties besides hardness.

Ironwood wrote:
While remaining natural wood in almost every way, ironwood is as strong, heavy, and resistant to fire as steel.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Cthulhudrew wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Instruments as weapons is incredibly silly. Mostly because they would break far, far too easily. The Fragile weapon quality wouldn't begin to cover it.

Someone hasn't seen Kung-Fu Hustle, I take it? :D

(Go to about the 2 minute mark)

You'll note that they're getting offensive magical effects from a (magic?) instrument, not beating people with a harp.


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Ross Byers wrote:
You'll note that they're getting offensive magical effects from a (magic?) instrument, not beating people with a harp.

I know, but I still like the idea of the visual. Perhaps it should be limited to magical musical weapons, but while it irritates the realist in me, the fantasist thinks it could be a cool idea. :D

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Just take Catch Off-Guard, then you don't need the pointy bits.


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I can't help but feel this is going to be the best class to ever have been in a roleplaying game.


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Realism is great and all but I'm more interested in fun and the cool factor. Magic makes all things possible and I bet we could all think of some cool instruments that could also serve as weapons. Why not?

Go die in a hole realism!


^ +1 ^


Cthulhudrew wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Instruments as weapons is incredibly silly. Mostly because they would break far, far too easily. The Fragile weapon quality wouldn't begin to cover it.

Someone hasn't seen Kung-Fu Hustle, I take it? :D

(Go to about the 2 minute mark)

While I enjoy Kung-Fu Hustle, those fights felt more analogous to magical effects (both the musical instrument and the Lion's Roar) than using instruments as weapons.

Instruments take time and effort to maintain their ability to play music. They have to tuned, cleaned, and such. Using them as weapons would probably ruin all of that on the first hit. I did a quick search to see if there have been weapons that also served as instruments and I didn't get any real results (beyond instances of "sneak a gun into the instrument" or just using a sturdy wooden instrument as a club).

Aaron Scott 139 wrote:

Realism is great and all but I'm more interested in fun and the cool factor. Magic makes all things possible and I bet we could all think of some cool instruments that could also serve as weapons. Why not?

Go die in a hole realism!

Realism is important to keep the game grounded. Once you get rid of that the game tends to get sillier or make magic feel more mundane. If realism dies, there there is nothing fantastic.

I would like to see more offensive instruments, but in the form of bard spells or instruments that produce magical effects as opposed to attacking blades to a guitar and calling it an axe.


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We will have to agree to disagree.


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Blazej wrote:

Some stuff

yackety schmackety

other important stuff

words

... attacking blades to a guitar and calling it an axe.

YES! IN!

(couldn't help myself. Sorry, Blazej)


Eben TheQuiet wrote:
Blazej wrote:

Some stuff

yackety schmackety

other important stuff

words

... attacking blades to a guitar and calling it an axe.

YES! IN!

\m/

Dark Archive

With the Skald you can create low-level, low CR enemy groups who will utterly slaughter PCs.

2 Orc warriors and their Level 1 Skald sergeant is only CR 1. You should be able to get a few TPKs of level 1 parties with those three.


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AM SKALD wrote:
Eben TheQuiet wrote:
Blazej wrote:

Some stuff

yackety schmackety

other important stuff

words

... attacking blades to a guitar and calling it an axe.

YES! IN!
\m/

Better yet, convert a battleaxe into a guitar.


Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
Can we agree that, as a class, this one and the bard in particular should get instruments that also work as weapons? Lute axe, flute dagger, etc.

Fixed that one for you :)


In a game with talking fairy dragons and floating castles I would hope that a flute with a sharpened end wouldn't be too tall an order.


In one game I had a Half orc Bard who worshiped Gorum. He had an Arcane Bonded Great axe that, with GM permission, was able to sprout guitar strings and was fluffed to sound like an electric guitar.

My GMs reasoning for allowing this was "That the only effect it will have is allowing your character to be even cooler"


Orthos wrote:
We will have to agree to disagree.

That is perfectly reasonable.

Eben TheQuiet wrote:

YES! IN!

(couldn't help myself. Sorry, Blazej)

No problem. I'm certain I have a few players that would be on board with the concept as well.

Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
In a game with talking fairy dragons and floating castles I would hope that a flute with a sharpened end wouldn't be too tall an order.

Yeah, but even rolling with that it is resilient enough to sustain those hits without changing shape (which is pretty fair considering many fantasy weapon designs), if it is going to be used as an instrument following a fight you are probably going to have to clean blood and chunks of flesh out of it. It just doesn't feel like a good design.

While magic exist, I still believe that it will take the path of less resistance. I'm more apt to imagine a flute that magically turns into a dagger than a flute that can be used to stab and cut as good as a dagger. I looked a bit to see if there was real world examples and I did find some but for the most part the I kept seeing that while you could make an instrument into a weapon, it meant that you were either getting a poor instrument or a poor weapon. It is one item trying to do two things and that is often better served by having two items that each are specialized at their one task.

These are a few musical instruments I found of note.

Musical saws are a thing. Even if they aren't weapons, I could imagine notes being played on flexible metal weapons although they might not serve as decent instruments.

Musical bows seemed very interesting to me. They seem like their focus on becoming musical instruments sacrifices durability and usability as weapons.

I have seen a few references to the Shakuhachi being used as both a weapon and an instrument. It wasn't does with spikes or blades, but just looks like it was used as a club.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If one of the magic Items isn't a greataxe/Lute(or guitar) hybrid Item, I will be sad.

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