Faction Evolution, Part II: Secrets and Liberty

Monday, June 23, 2014


Illustration by Alex Aparin

Two weeks ago, we briefly discussed the impact of faction PCs' decisions in the campaign and how these decisions have shaped the direction that these factions are going. Last week on the Know Direction podcast, John Compton expanded on what this evolution might entail for many factions: name changes, shifting goals, and even changes in leadership.

As advertised over a year ago, the so-called nation-based factions have spent the past season (or longer for some like the Cheliax faction) distancing themselves from their parent countries to embrace less territorial and more broadly philosophical endeavors. When the Pathfinder Society Organized Play leaders began discussing how factions would change, we looked at the reporting numbers contributed by players worldwide and carefully considered how the faction might change to reflect this information while still appealing to a large percentage of its members. For example, members of the Silver Crusade faction tend to be good guys, so changing that faction to be neutrally aligned would discourage a lot of players.

This week we're sharing the direction that two of our factions are heading (new faction symbols will come a bit later). Be warned that there are some minor spoilers from Season 5 scenarios referenced below.

Dark Archive: In Darkness Lies Enlightenment

It's been more than a year since Chelish officials condemned faction leader Paracountess Zarta Dralneen on false charges. Because the accusation and punishment were largely off the record, there was little context for Cheliax to apologize, formally withdraw the charges, or invite Zarta to resume her duties as a liaison to the Pathfinder Society. Even Zarta's agents have not escaped blame entirely. It's a bitter reminder that the servants of Hell are hardly forgiving.

Since then, Zarta has worked from Korvosa to consolidate what remained of her faction, and to her surprise, the Pathfinder Society has extended a hand to help on multiple occasions. As a result, Zarta finds her professional relationship with the Society has grown stronger. As her agents stay busy recovering powerful artifacts and tomes that they might use to track down the faction's enemies and defend themselves against future betrayals, Zarta has corresponded with the Society's leaders to carve out a niche for her organization.

What resulted is a major victory for the faction, for Zarta has convinced the three Masters that she and her agents are uniquely suited to handle dangerous relics. Not only does this cover for the evil artifacts that the faction has recovered, but it has also earned an invitation to begin cataloguing the vast array of perilous finds the Society has acquired and then promptly hidden away for later study. Zarta intends to accept the offer and found a dark archive, giving her faction access to untold numbers of forbidden texts and relics—purportedly to catalogue and better understand these objects, but also as a backdoor for her agents to gain power from sinister sources.

How will the Cheliax faction be different? Despite being estranged from Cheliax, the faction still values order and law. These are worthy end goals in their own right, and they are also potent mantras in maintaining a positive working relationship with the Pathfinder Society. Any betrayal of that trust must be a calculated one. In many ways, the new Dark Archive faction is still the “bad guy” option that the Cheliax faction has always been, but its reason for being welcome in the Society is stronger.

Liberty's Edge: In Pursuit of True Liberty

Almost a year ago, Major Colson Maldris learned of a thriving contingent of statesmen—many who had held noble titles before the People's Revolt—who had established themselves as the new nobility of Andoran. Of course, these career politicians were not embracing this lifestyle publically; doing so would invite criminal charges. Instead they have built up networks of political and economic power that keep them perpetually elected to office, in control of major industries, in a position to shape a new generation of leaders through favors and cronyism.

These corrupt leaders represent only a small fraction of Andoran's elected leaders, and much of the nation still operates in a manner true to its founding principles. Nonetheless, it is a chilling reminder that the great democratic experiment is not without its flaws. With the help of Pathfinder agents, Maldris has tracked down enough evidence to accuse a few criminals in high places, but his attempts to demonstrate how deep the corruption runs has met with pushback from both the crooked and the honest. So long as his faction operates as a direct extension of Andoran, the faux-nobility can track Maldris's attempts to root them out. The only way to save Andoran is to leave Andoran—at least for now.

What does this mean for Andoran going forward? Well, in some ways little has changed. For example, Maldris still seeks to help other throw off the shackles of tyranny and bring freedom to all people. Now, though, the faction's reason for doing this has expanded beyond altruism. In studying others' philosophies and techniques, faction PCs can borrow strategies that might help Maldris hunt corruption at home and abroad.

Happy gaming,

John Compton and Mike Brock
Developer and Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Alex Aparin Pathfinder Society
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Dark Archive 1/5

pauljathome wrote:
Uh, let's put our evil devil worshippers in charge of our evil artifacts? What could POSSIBLY go wrong with that cunning plan?

heh heh heh...

Not all servants of the Lord of Law are evil.

Dark Archive 4/5 *

So, the old shirts will still grant a reroll, but will we be getting new faction shirts?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

What I see as likely is that the Grand Prince passes on and Taldor begins a more militant phase, leaving Morilla looking a fool, since she helped put the new Empress on the throne and now Taldor has become what she was not hoping to see.

With that Morilla will seek to rally mankind to being focused on preservation of mankind and civilizations as a whole.

Qadira is easy, especially if you have played any of their storyline scenarios this season. The Trade Prince is going to be working on a Merchant's League for his and the PFS's best interests.

That's how I see it, at least.

5/5

I doubt that we're going to see any world-changing things with happens with Taldor, at least nothing canon-changing like Stavian passing or a political upheaval putting a new power on the throne. Setting-changing things like that are largely outside of the scope of PFS, so until something like that happens in the larger canon of the setting, I wouldn't count on seeing it happen in PFS. It would be great if that was the case, but I don't see any major canonical changes occurring the setting until the inevitable day we see Pathfinder 2nd Edition.

Silver Crusade 3/5 *

As a person who occasionally sets up dark archives irl, I now have to join this faction. =P

Shadow Lodge

I'm still trying to tease out what Liberty's Edge is meant to evoke, so perhaps some speculation here is in order... it may make me warm up to the changes a little more to get some ideas on the table and not feel so "meh" about the name.

1) Is it the edge of liberty, as in it is as close to actually not being for liberty - meaning some of its members are just kind of interested in it? (i.e. they're on the edge/verge and just haven't fully committed yet) (Hopefully not this one)

2) Is it liberty's edge, because it's forcing others to accept liberty perhaps at the end of a sword, by threat of using a sharp edge? Or a sharp metal bell? :)

3) Is it liberty's edge, taking the meaning of edge to be an advantage, and by following ideals of liberty, the faction has a more diverse membership with collected skills from all different nations/followings?

4) Other??


BigNorseWolf wrote:
That is taking the naughty librarian to entirely new levels.

HAHAHAHAHAH!!! This is brilliant!

wakedown wrote:

I'm still trying to tease out what Liberty's Edge is meant to evoke, so perhaps some speculation here is in order...

3) Is it liberty's edge, taking the meaning of edge to be an advantage, and by following ideals of liberty, the faction has a more diverse membership with collected skills from all different nations/followings?

I'd see it as 3 personally, they are the advancement of Liberty itself, hence why they have to move away from their roots as "Andoran" and become Liberty incarnate. :D

PS - Mike and John, loving these changes, the move from nations to ideals is brilliant and really means future characters cam more easily be from one nation and yet fit into another faction.

Also although the Liberties edge stuff is cool and all, the Dark Archive sounds AWESOME!!!!

All my PCs are suddenly going to feel the desire to be orderly :)

Scarab Sages 4/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

PMSchulz wrote:
Well, my Lantern Lodge member got boned when that went away. So now my Paladin and Ranger who are Silver Crusade are going to get boned too? Hope not. I really don't want another two characters in Grand Lodge.

Silver Crusade, as it is not nation based, is unlikely to change.

Grand Lodge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sooooo many character concepts this change makes easier. I think the first will be that Galtan Urban Barbarian I've been thinking on for awhile =)

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Farrindor wrote:
The Paracountess as the Guardian of Warehouse 13... fear that.

So.. Paracelsus as caretaker. Got it.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Is Major Maldris going rogue? We're sworn to the people of Andoran, not some shadowy conspiracy. I hope an Eagle Knight will still have a place in the Society.

Knight-Captain Sir Galengol Greencloak
of the Andoran frigate Impartial

Dark Archive

Now there are whole new reasons to hang upside down for a weekend. Space saving ergonomics! Its the Darkive for me!

Legally yours,
MeriDoc esquire


Galengol wrote:

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Is Major Maldris going rogue? We're sworn to the people of Andoran, not some shadowy conspiracy. I hope an Eagle Knight will still have a place in the Society.

Knight-Captain Sir Galengol Greencloak
of the Andoran frigate Impartial

Firstly Knight Captain, Can I just say that you sir, are a damned fine looking man ;)

Secondly there are those of us who fight for freedom without quite so much, ah, "regard" for the laws that sometimes get in the way. Though I do not doubt the commitment, nor the efficacy of the Eagle Knights, they are not the only tool of our people, its time we threw off not just our physical shackles but also our political ones and time we became a cause unto ourselves and separate from our beloved nation.

Signed Capt Killian Jones
Of the Free Ship Currently Replacing Ship

Scarab Sages 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Philadelphia

It would be great if Taldor focused on a new Army of Exploration--maybe in southern Garund or Casmaron. That could keep the key NPCs busy without making major changes in Taldor, like Eutropia dethroning Prince Stalvan.

Looking at other products coming out in the Player Companion and Campaign Setting line, it seems a little more likely that, if the Grand Army does something, it will be invading the Hold of Belkzen.

My vote is for shapeshifting spider-monsters, though.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
ShadowDax wrote:

I should note my intention, the study of the artifact's and destroy them, in that order. It might take some thinking through in order to get the RP correct.

My character is tired of getting orders to "hit" someone in order to cover Colsons malfeasance in that he wishes to continue them.

This has been disappointing. My character should have lost his Paladin hood long-ago doing these kind of faction missions but, it is the way the game is designed to run.

Using knowledge plot hook, that is how some of my prestige points have been acquired. It was done in combination with other characters in order to soften the aiding and abetting.

Ah, but who says that it was Colson who sent those faction missions?

Yes, they were under his name, but I suspect that he has people working for him who may have also been serving the corrupt officials.....

Maybe that is one of the reasons that the faction is moving away from Andoran.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

CathalFM wrote:

Firstly Knight Captain, Can I just say that you sir, are a damned fine looking man ;)

Secondly there are those of us who fight for freedom without quite so much, ah, "regard" for the laws that sometimes get in the way. Though I do not doubt the commitment, nor the efficacy of the Eagle Knights, they are not the only tool of our people, its time we threw off not just our physical shackles but also our political ones and time we became a cause unto ourselves and separate from our beloved nation.

Signed Capt Killian Jones
Of the Free Ship Currently Replacing Ship

I mutually appreciate the cut of your jib, sir.

And of course, those of us who have served with the Gray Corsairs realize that sometimes the law, instead of serving justice, stands in its way. However, if the Eagle Knights no longer serve Andoran, whose purposes will we serve? If Liberty's Edge can't stay Andoren and work for freedom, does that mean that Andoran no longer stands for freedom?

Dark Archive 3/5

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Wow. I just remembered that my Chelaxian oracle's day job is Profession: Scribe.

And I've got "Craft (books)" and "Craft (calligraphy)." This is going to be an easy transition! :)

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5 ***

It sounds, friends, as if the major has acknowledged that the movement of liberty is greater than any one nation. If that is the case, it would make sense to me that our faction would evolve into a different entity, one less-constrained by the laws and requirements of corrupt individuals and ruling organizations.

I suspect that the long and honorable traditions and history of the Eagle Knights will still have a tremendous role to play in bringing freedom to the peoples of all countries, not just Andoran.

And to that I say, it is well beyond time we have done so.

If you further the cause of freedom and liberty, of the right of free peoples to choose their way, then we are on the same side. And if you bear the title of an Eagle Knight, you are more than welcome to accompany me and our brothers and sisters on this journey!


So Zarta is a librarian now. Bit of a stretch.


Galengol wrote:
CathalFM wrote:

Firstly Knight Captain, Can I just say that you sir, are a damned fine looking man ;)

Secondly there are those of us who fight for freedom without quite so much, ah, "regard" for the laws that sometimes get in the way. Though I do not doubt the commitment, nor the efficacy of the Eagle Knights, they are not the only tool of our people, its time we threw off not just our physical shackles but also our political ones and time we became a cause unto ourselves and separate from our beloved nation.

Signed Capt Killian Jones
Of the Free Ship Currently Replacing Ship

I mutually appreciate the cut of your jib, sir.

And of course, those of us who have served with the Gray Corsairs realize that sometimes the law, instead of serving justice, stands in its way. However, if the Eagle Knights no longer serve Andoran, whose purposes will we serve? If Liberty's Edge can't stay Andoren and work for freedom, does that mean that Andoran no longer stands for freedom?

No my friend, have a swig of rum while I paint you a picture. For it is not that Andoran no longer stands for Freedom, it is not that Liberty's Edge is no longer Andoran, rather mate, its that we have nurtured Freedom, let it grow until it is bigger than Andoran itself.

We have a chance now to leave our beautiful nation to develop alone with its newfound freedom without shackling it to our own cause. And all the Andorans who flock -of their own free will- to our cause will just make the victory that much sweeter!

So a toast, to the advancement of Freedom, to the Edge of Liberty!!

Also, I can't help but noticing you have a very fine ship there, I don't suppose you have another tucked away have ya?

Signed Capt Killian Jones
Of the Free Ship Currently Replacing Ship

5/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Yottsu hoshi wrote:
So Zarta is a librarian now. Bit of a stretch.

I get the feeling that she'd prefer the term "scholastrix."

3/5

Noah Wyle just joined the Librarians,....I mean the Dark Archive :)

Silver Crusade 4/5

ShadowDax wrote:

My character is tired of getting orders to "hit" someone in order to cover Colsons malfeasance in that he wishes to continue them.

This has been disappointing. My character should have lost his Paladin hood long-ago doing these kind of faction missions but, it is the way the game is designed to run.

Using knowledge plot hook, that is how some of my prestige points have been acquired. It was done in combination with other characters in order to soften the aiding and abetting.

As a member of the Silver Crusade, I'm sometimes asked to aid the cause of freedom by doing favors for Major Colson. I actually refused to do as he asked once, but I still got the prestige for it, thanks to a pair of actual Andorens I was working with who got the job done.

And it wasn't even an assassination plot - just spreading some nasty rumors about some slavers. But as a devotee of the goddess of light, I only spread the light of truth to the world. To spread lies, even against evil, despicable slavers, would be hypocracy, and make me almost as bad as the slavers themselves. I'm sure Sarenrae would rather I extend a hand to the slavers and offer them redemption, and then destroy them directly if they refuse, rather than try to ruin them through dishonest means.

On the other hand, Major Colson has asked me to kill two evil people in the past, and once I saw just how bad they were and that they refused any chance at redemption, I did as he asked.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/55/5

MeriDoc- wrote:

Now there are whole new reasons to hang upside down for a weekend. Space saving ergonomics! Its the Darkive for me!

Legally yours,
MeriDoc esquire

The blood rushing to your head helps you think better.

3/5

ShadowDax wrote:

I should note my intention, the study of the artifact's and destroy them, in that order. It might take some thinking through in order to get the RP correct.

My character is tired of getting orders to "hit" someone in order to cover Colsons malfeasance in that he wishes to continue them.

This has been disappointing. My character should have lost his Paladin hood long-ago doing these kind of faction missions but, it is the way the game is designed to run.

Using knowledge plot hook, that is how some of my prestige points have been acquired. It was done in combination with other characters in order to soften the aiding and abetting.

Might I suggest the Silver Crusade? Freedom and Liberty are but one facet of the Crusade's goal list.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Sagotel wrote:
pauljathome wrote:
Uh, let's put our evil devil worshippers in charge of our evil artifacts? What could POSSIBLY go wrong with that cunning plan?

heh heh heh...

Not all servants of the Lord of Law are evil.

Is that what yeh tell yerself, so yeh can sleep at night?

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

ShadowDax wrote:


This has been disappointing. My character should have lost his Paladin hood long-ago doing these kind of faction missions but, it is the way the game is designed to run.

Just for the record, they removed the wording that said doing evil deeds under orders from above does not count as being evil. As off season 5, if you do evil, even under orders, it is your evil. (Fortunately, they got rid of faction missions at the same time, so that should help.)

Grand Lodge 4/5

As a loyal Andoran I'm appalled at this betrayal. To throw away all the good that can be done by working within the system to to root out the small fraction of bad apples is wrong. I for one will not stand for the Major's perversion.

It is troublesome that the Major thinks that he can separate himself from Andoran politics in order to have his Liberty's Edge group of rebel rousers to strike out against what he feels is corruption. With no governmental oversight, at that.

I worry that the Major will be corrupted by this new level of power that he is granting himself. No one is above the law, and the Major and his Liberty's Edge "freedom fighters" will need to learn this again.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

You might say we're becoming the shield of Andoran...

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/55/55/5

Putting the law above people is how you wind up with cheliax in the first place. Don't worry, we'll keep a close eye on the major.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

I do wonder how it will affect the boon on Broken Chains...

At least my Taldan witch will still be an eagle knight (and baroness of Almas) :-)

The Exchange 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tim deBow wrote:

As a loyal Andoran I'm appalled at this betrayal. To throw away all the good that can be done by working within the system to to root out the small fraction of bad apples is wrong. I for one will not stand for the Major's perversion.

It is troublesome that the Major thinks that he can separate himself from Andoran politics in order to have his Liberty's Edge group of rebel rousers to strike out against what he feels is corruption. With no governmental oversight, at that.

I worry that the Major will be corrupted by this new level of power that he is granting himself. No one is above the law, and the Major and his Liberty's Edge "freedom fighters" will need to learn this again.

sounds like someone is moving from Andoran to ... ah... Dark Archive... wait, they aren't the Law faction any more... who the heck is for the Law now? Sczarni?

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Rampant speculation on Sczarni

Spoiler:
If they get changed like Andoran/Cheliax I'd bet they're going to be the 'shipping and handling' group in the society. Think Qaderia being the folks who get the contacts and the deals, and the Sczarni ship them home.

Grand Lodge 4/5

nosig wrote:
Tim deBow wrote:

As a loyal Andoran I'm appalled at this betrayal. To throw away all the good that can be done by working within the system to to root out the small fraction of bad apples is wrong. I for one will not stand for the Major's perversion.

It is troublesome that the Major thinks that he can separate himself from Andoran politics in order to have his Liberty's Edge group of rebel rousers to strike out against what he feels is corruption. With no governmental oversight, at that.

I worry that the Major will be corrupted by this new level of power that he is granting himself. No one is above the law, and the Major and his Liberty's Edge "freedom fighters" will need to learn this again.

sounds like someone is moving from Andoran to ... ah... Dark Archive... wait, they aren't the Law faction any more... who the heck is for the Law now? Sczarni?

Yeah, who knows... going be interesting finding which faction fits my characters the best now.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

wakedown wrote:

I'm still trying to tease out what Liberty's Edge is meant to evoke, so perhaps some speculation here is in order... it may make me warm up to the changes a little more to get some ideas on the table and not feel so "meh" about the name.

1) Is it the edge of liberty, as in it is as close to actually not being for liberty - meaning some of its members are just kind of interested in it? (i.e. they're on the edge/verge and just haven't fully committed yet) (Hopefully not this one)

2) Is it liberty's edge, because it's forcing others to accept liberty perhaps at the end of a sword, by threat of using a sharp edge? Or a sharp metal bell? :)

3) Is it liberty's edge, taking the meaning of edge to be an advantage, and by following ideals of liberty, the faction has a more diverse membership with collected skills from all different nations/followings?

4) Other??

All of the above.... The name is more interesting if there are multiple interpretations which can be applied to it.

You can also have "Liberty's Edge" as in "living on the edge of liberty" -- both in terms of the front, the boundary between liberty and not-liberty as liberty advances, and in terms of being the outsider who stands tall and vigilant protecting liberty even while perhaps sacrificing some of one's own personal liberty.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

All of the evil NPCs are part of the "Murder Hoboes" faction.

Oh, wait, those are the PCs.

Hmm, never mind.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

Tim deBow wrote:

As a loyal Andoran I'm appalled at this betrayal. To throw away all the good that can be done by working within the system to to root out the small fraction of bad apples is wrong. I for one will not stand for the Major's perversion.

It is troublesome that the Major thinks that he can separate himself from Andoran politics in order to have his Liberty's Edge group of rebel rousers to strike out against what he feels is corruption. With no governmental oversight, at that.

I worry that the Major will be corrupted by this new level of power that he is granting himself. No one is above the law, and the Major and his Liberty's Edge "freedom fighters" will need to learn this again.

"All the good ... ? Small fraction ... ? My god man, you sound like a politician who's covering his tracks. A select few have rigged our country so they retain all the power, placing themselves as the new aristocracy in Andoran.

"Calling rebel rousers? You sound like a Chelaxian. Isn't that what they called us after we won our freedom? Why do we need oversight from a government that is already settling into corruption? Wouldn't that potentially eliminate any progress made toward pushing Andoran back on the path?

"Corrupted by power? As if the people's congress hasn't achieved that? No man is above the law? You're right, but what if the law's become broken?

"You are right to fear the corruption of Maldris. He has, on occasion, been little more than a mob boss. But I swear this to him and all of Andoran. Should he send me knocking on someone's door just to clean up his misconduct one more time, he'll find me knocking at his."

Shadow Lodge 1/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I like the idea that now Cheliax and the Hellknights and (to a lesser extent Eagle Knights/Andoran) can show up as honest villains.

I mean, they are basically Fascists, and everyone knows Fascists like to fund archeological excavations in order to get artifacts of infinite power to take over the world, while the Pathfinder Society just wants to put them in a private collection (NOT a Museum run by the Blackros family).

Grand Lodge 4/5

Yottsu hoshi wrote:
So Zarta is a librarian now. Bit of a stretch.

Depends on the book, really.

Anyone know what the name of the Golarion equivalent of the Kama Sutra is?

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am pretty sure Calistria's holy text "The Book of Joy" has a few pointers.

5/5

kinevon wrote:
Yottsu hoshi wrote:
So Zarta is a librarian now. Bit of a stretch.

Depends on the book, really.

Anyone know what the name of the Golarion equivalent of the Kama Sutra is?

the Gnoma Sutra?

Shadow Lodge *

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

A Young Dralneen Lady's Illustrated Primer

5/5 5/55/55/5

pH unbalanced wrote:
A Young Dralneen Lady's Illustrated Primer

casts blindness on self and deliberately fails the fort save

Grand Lodge 4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:
A Young Dralneen Lady's Illustrated Primer
casts blindness on self and deliberately fails the fort save

Evile GM mode:

remove blindness: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (1) + 5 = 6
Did I beat the caster level of the blindness?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

FLite, I don't remember that happening, thanks for bringing it up. I do not wish to put another character in andoran and this characters ideals were made with that faction in mind before the malfeasance. I have another character in the silver crusade. I did not want to bunch them up which is why I haven't combined the two.

Mistwalker, I never thought about that. That is thinking out-of-the-box. With a wisdom of eight I easily fail the sense motive check. I will keep this in mind in the future, makes it easier to RP. We'll see what andoran becomes and what liberty has to offer.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Sister Isabella wrote:
ShadowDax wrote:
My character is tired of getting orders to "hit" someone in order to cover Colsons malfeasance in that he wishes to continue them. ...to soften the aiding and abetting.

... as a devotee of the goddess of light, I only spread the light of truth to the world. To spread lies, even against evil, despicable slavers, would be hypocracy, and make me almost as bad as the slavers themselves. I'm sure Sarenrae would rather I extend a hand to the slavers and offer them redemption, and then destroy them directly if they refuse, rather than try to ruin them through dishonest means.

On the other hand, Major Colson has asked me to kill two evil people in the past, and once I saw just how bad they were and that they refused any chance at redemption, I did as he asked.

Sister Isabella, never sell out, never surrender your ideals. You were clever, I encourage you to keep the way you RP your character going. Pathfinder forever!!

3/5

So, what happens to vanities and traits that you have that are removed from access for your Faction? I think I recall that if you change factions your access to their vanities (and traits?) are removed and you lose the ones you have... but even if that's standard (and appropriate for say a grand lodge character changing to dark archive) is it 'fair' (I know, loaded term, sorry) to do that to say a Cheliax faction member needing to enter the Dark Archive? (as that's more of a faction transformation than change). I'm sure these questions will eventually be handled, but if you guys already have some notion, it'd be great to get a heads up. Thanks!

Shadow Lodge *

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
DrakeRoberts wrote:
So, what happens to vanities and traits that you have that are removed from access for your Faction? I think I recall that if you change factions your access to their vanities (and traits?) are removed and you lose the ones you have... but even if that's standard (and appropriate for say a grand lodge character changing to dark archive) is it 'fair' (I know, loaded term, sorry) to do that to say a Cheliax faction member needing to enter the Dark Archive? (as that's more of a faction transformation than change). I'm sure these questions will eventually be handled, but if you guys already have some notion, it'd be great to get a heads up. Thanks!

My Shadow Lodge character was able to keep her Faction Trait even after moving over to the Silver Crusade, and I would expect that to be the same for anyone else affected by this. (Especially as there is currently no way to legally change your starting traits.)

Can't speak to Vanities, but I would expect something similar.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I believe John Compton said elsewhere that you got to keep any Traits or Vanities you already possessed.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hmm. My melee Oracle already believes that her curse that forces her to speak Abyssal is a sign that Aroden's power is reaching her from his prison beneath the Worldwound, and that evil ioun stone from [REDACTED] only confirmed her suspicions. She may just switch from Silver Crusade to the Dark Archive to see what other demon-tainted power Aroden has in store for her...

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