A Truly Epic Challenge

And, frankly, if people continue to complain about it, chalk this up as a failed experiment and don't do it, again. There is no need to invite additional criticism when all you're doing is providing options that people supposedly wanted in the first place.

I get the feeling that many people who have said they like the challenge said it because they didn't want the play up rewards removed. Me...I like the challenge of playing up...but generally speaking, unless I am in a certain group of players, that comes with a HUGE price tag in consumables. I would like to not get super penalized because I'm being a nice guy and playing up so those higher level folks don't lose out on gold. I suspect that unless I am with said certain players, hard mode won't even be discussed...but in case that isn't the case, I can see a wealth death spiral being an issue. Not that it WILL happen...just something to be mindful of.

I like Leathert's idea of having a boon with a title on it. Add "Runelord-slayer" to your character's name, or the like.

There should be no mechanical benefit to this, of course. Just bragging rights :-)

Drogon wrote:

And, frankly, if people continue to complain about it, chalk this up as a failed experiment and don't do it, again. There is no need to invite additional criticism when all you're doing is providing options that people supposedly wanted in the first place.

I get the feeling that many people who have said they like the challenge said it because they didn't want the play up rewards removed. Me...I like the challenge of playing up...but generally speaking, unless I am in a certain group of players, that comes with a HUGE price tag in consumables. I would like to not get super penalized because I'm being a nice guy and playing up so those higher level folks don't lose out on gold. I suspect that unless I am with said certain players, hard mode won't even be discussed...but in case that isn't the case, I can see a wealth death spiral being an issue. Not that it WILL happen...just something to be mindful of.

Sorry, but the solution is simple in this situation: don't be nice.

Cold Napalm wrote:

Drogon wrote:

And, frankly, if people continue to complain about it, chalk this up as a failed experiment and don't do it, again. There is no need to invite additional criticism when all you're doing is providing options that people supposedly wanted in the first place.

I get the feeling that many people who have said they like the challenge said it because they didn't want the play up rewards removed. Me...I like the challenge of playing up...but generally speaking, unless I am in a certain group of players, that comes with a HUGE price tag in consumables. I would like to not get super penalized because I'm being a nice guy and playing up so those higher level folks don't lose out on gold. I suspect that unless I am with said certain players, hard mode won't even be discussed...but in case that isn't the case, I can see a wealth death spiral being an issue. Not that it WILL happen...just something to be mindful of.

Sorry, but the solution is simple in this situation: don't be nice.

not sure I'm comfortable with that solution....

not sure I'm comfortable with that solution....

It's your character. You get to set its boundaries, not other people you don't know/like/trust.

Edit: For anyone who truly does have issues with maintaining their personal boundaries, I recommend getting your GM or event coordinator involved prior to sitting down for the game. They will support you if you fill them in on your discomfort.

Coming at this from another angle: if its all heading south, and I decide discretion is the better part of valour, what are the bragging rights for becoming Krune's new right hand elf?

A neutral chap like oneself must avoid too much of this hero stuff lest one slips alignment. A balancing dose of the other side seems long overdue.

I would play up just to do this scenario on hard mode.

Maybe my kensai would finally get that Risen title he's been looking for.

Maybe a Runelord would get a critical shocking grasp, delivered by a black blade with all the extras going.

Either way, it would be fun.

Coming at this from another angle: if its all heading south, and I decide discretion is the better part of valour, what are the bragging rights for becoming Krune's new right hand elf?

A neutral chap like oneself must avoid too much of this hero stuff lest one slips alignment. A balancing dose of the other side seems long overdue.

Krune always needs more servants, and at this time he has no right-hand-elf. Be sure to fill out the paperwork in Thassilonian after including your party members in no less than three debilitating and/or destructive spell effects.

References are appreciated. Selfless worship of Lissala is a plus.

OOOOHHHHH! My bloatmage fits the bill.
1) Elf. Check!
2) Speak/write in Thassilonian. Check!
3) Murder your fellow members. I can just over bloat in the last fight and murder everyone. That has got to get Krune's attention and maybe he will decide to bring me back from dying at the end of my blubbery rampage. Check!
4) References. Paracountess, Headmaster of the Academea, Suthevan Gyves (Leader of the arcanist circle). Check!
5) Selfless worship....um....nope! 4 out of 5 is not bad.

Can't wait to hear back about my resume and show you my skills at the in person interview.

Your bloatmage still has a good shot, Lab_Rat.

Remember, no one ever hires the best person for the job...only the best person who applies. ;-)

Your bloatmage still has a good shot, Lab_Rat.

Remember, no one ever hires the best person for the job...only the best person who applies. ;-)

My oracle may be the best person for the job. Of course, that means it's a good idea for me to not play him, since I wouldn't want him to apply!

Lets see...

My EK...

1) elf..good to go.
2) Speak/write Thassilonian...check.
3) Willing to murder party...sure, why not.
4) References...just ask my former party members :P .
5) Worship...umm lip service count?

Cold Napalm wrote:

not sure I'm comfortable with that solution....

It's your character. You get to set its boundaries, not other people you don't know/like/trust.

Edit: For anyone who truly does have issues with maintaining their personal boundaries, I recommend getting your GM or event coordinator involved prior to sitting down for the game. They will support you if you fill them in on your discomfort.

Personally, I find things go a lot smoother when you have a bunch of nice folks willing to make things work between themselves and having the system get in the way of that to be somewhat problematic. Like say being unable to pay other players for consumable they may have used to save your bacon. The proposed WBL system would be even worse. Having a hard mode COULD get worse...but seriously less likely if there is no actual perma reward. I think the best execution would be to have some increased consumable drops with a gold star on the chronicle sheet that does NOTHING and WILL do nothing mechanically. This should make disruption minimal.

In anycase, I really do like the idea...it's just me being me and seeing where thing can go wrong :P .

I would like to see some mechanical benefit. My thought would be to allow a different character to play the scenario at regular difficulty if you complete AND survive the mission at hard difficulty. This would be particularly useful for future faction ending scenarios.

I don't like the idea of hard difficulty for lower tier groups. Generally they have less of everything and can get in too deep very quickly. If they have the levels, they will play up anyhow and get a material benefit for the risk.

I would like the option to opt out of hard mode midway through. Everybody bites off more than they can chew sometimes. There would not be an opt in though.

I would most like to see 6 player mode and/or hard mode published for season 0-3 scenarios. Most of these are in serious need of rewrites, even if only tactics and spell selection.

Jarenthal wrote:

Coming at this from another angle: if its all heading south, and I decide discretion is the better part of valour, what are the bragging rights for becoming Krune's new right hand elf?

A neutral chap like oneself must avoid too much of this hero stuff lest one slips alignment. A balancing dose of the other side seems long overdue.

Krune always needs more servants, and at this time he has no right-hand-elf. Be sure to fill out the paperwork in Thassilonian and in triplicate after including your party members in no less than three debilitating and/or destructive spell effects.

References are appreciated. Selfless worship of Lissala is a plus.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. For those youngsters out there; people used to have to submit multiple copies of paperwork for the gnomes that liked to file such things.

I would like the option to opt out of hard mode midway through.

It's called 'running away'.

Krune taste good?

Another vote here for no mechanical benefit to playing hard mode.

If people want to "play up" for the challenge, here's the opportunity.

If people want to play up for the rewards, they should at least be honest and up front about it.

Note:
I play up for the rewards.

Also note:
I will, however, be playing hard mode for this scenario if at all possible.

Bruno join Pathfinders to travel Golarion, meet interesting people and grapple their faces into dirt.

Getting to grapple (or be killed by) a Rune Lord reward enough.

Yes that's great Bruno, but some of us have armor to polish and repair after we clear a path for you to get to Krune.

I swear, why do I let the Monk negotiate payment?

I'll state that I am of the "no reward" crowd as well. If, as one poster stated, additional consumables (such as a scroll of raise dead or the like) were found, where is the increased risk? If there is to be any valid valid bragging rights, it would be to say that you did it for no extra gain. At all.

If you were claiming that you were playing up only for the challenge, here is the time to put your character where your mouth is!

I have no problem with a GM adding a gold star, or whatever, or at least noting that it was played on Hard Mode... but, that should be the only reward.

Why not make it "really hard mode", and play Hard Mode with 5 players?

Real hard mode is playing only with core material. Try it some time~

Real hard mode is playing only with core material. Try it some time~

This is probably the best suggestion so far and it can be applied to every scenario. A Hard Core note on a chronicle sheet works for me.

Real hard mode is playing only with core material. Try it some time~

Not...really. My characters generally tend to be mostly core. I'm lazy and PFS isn't bad enough where I need to be a source monkey to build crazy things. So yeah core only isn't that big of a deal for increasing difficulty. Now if you had said core only monk or rogue...yeah, now that's a challenge.

Real hard mode is playing only with core material. Try it some time~

Which traits did you pick?

wvpolarbear wrote:

Real hard mode is playing only with core material. Try it some time~

Which traits did you pick?

Good point...so we can't technically make a pure core build in PFS (as we MUST pick traits...and I generally pick the ones that are in the APG...which I suppose is the core traits?!?).

Which traits did you pick?

Traits from the free Web Enhancement, I'd assume.

While I appreciate that Paizo has made a hard mode for this scenario, I think it will be used very rarely, especially considering that Season 4 is already quite difficult.

I personally won't play hard mode unless I had previous experience with my teammates and knew they would bring their "A" game. Most tables of random players do not bring it (at least to the level that would be needed for hard mode. And sometimes not even good enough for normal mode).

10-11 hard mode was epic. I would love to see the Krune kill counts from paizocon.

10-11 hard mode was epic. I would love to see the Krune kill counts from paizocon.

There were few deaths after 12 tables, including a TPK (2 players willingly retired after swearing fealty to Krune! in a table ran by VC Eric Brittain - No tables were on hard mode. I was in the last table that ended 2 hours ago and I was the sole person to ask for Hard Mode in my table.

I made sweet stickers for all the Paizocon attendees who played The Waking Rune.

All players received them except the last two tables because someone swiped the bag with them.

The stickers were as follows(some had Krune's portrait others the Sihedron rune in the center):

" I TOOK ON THE RUNELORDS AND KICKED A$$!"
" KRUNE'S GOT NOTHING ON THIS PATHFINDER, PAIZOCON 2013"
" RUNELORDS ARE MY SPECIALTY, PAIZOCON 2013"
" MAY LISSALA CURSE YOU, PFS 4-26 HARD MODE!"
" I TOOK ON THE RUNELORDS ON HARD MODE!"

If you died:

" BEST WISHES IN THE AFTERLIFE... LOVE, KRUNE!"
" I TOOK ON THE RUNELORDS... AND GOT OWNED!"

I later found a player walking around with 2 stickers including a "May Lissala Curse You! PFS 4-26 Hard Mode" sticker. I don't know how he got it, he wasn't really forthcoming when I questioned him on it. I only made 6 of those so...:(

I later found a player walking around with 2 stickers including a "May Lissala Curse You! PFS 4-26 Hard Mode" sticker. I don't know how he got it, he wasn't really forthcoming when I questioned him on it. I only made 6 of those so...:(

It makes me sad how often I see gamers ignoring social mores. I'm sorry you had to experience that, June.

June

As a proud wearer of the Runelords are my Specialty sticker I wanted to thank you for putting those out. Since I got to go through this scenario on the first day I enjoyed running around with it on my badge especially since I dealt the killing blow.

I am sorry for those individuals that didn't get stickers because of theft, it is a shame that happened.

Now I just need to figure out where to finally put the sticker.

June that is AWESOME, that you made stickers!!!

That is epic!

Xar'z wrote:

10-11 hard mode was epic. I would love to see the Krune kill counts from paizocon.

There were few deaths after 12 tables, including a TPK (2 players willingly retired after swearing fealty to Krune! in a table ran by VC Eric Brittain - No tables were on hard mode. I was in the last table that ended 2 hours ago and I was the sole person to ask for Hard Mode in my table.

I made sweet stickers for all the Paizocon attendees who played The Waking Rune.

All players received them except the last two tables because someone swiped the bag with them.

The stickers were as follows(some had Krune's portrait others the Sihedron rune in the center):

" I TOOK ON THE RUNELORDS AND KICKED A$$!"
" KRUNE'S GOT NOTHING ON THIS PATHFINDER, PAIZOCON 2013"
" RUNELORDS ARE MY SPECIALTY, PAIZOCON 2013"
" MAY LISSALA CURSE YOU, PFS 4-26 HARD MODE!"
" I TOOK ON THE RUNELORDS ON HARD MODE!"

If you died:

" BEST WISHES IN THE AFTERLIFE... LOVE, KRUNE!"
" I TOOK ON THE RUNELORDS... AND GOT OWNED!"

At least one group took on the hard mode 10-11 Saturday afternoon and we stomped some Rune Lord @$$. Only Pirate Rob went down. It was a great group and an epic triumph. I proudly wore my KRUNE'S GOT NOTHING ON THIS PATHFINDER" sticker in my badge holder afterwards. So thank you June, it was a nice touch, even if we didn't get the hard mode stickers or our gold stars. We know what we did.

Got to admit, the group I played Waking Rune with at PaizoCon, Saturday morning at 10-11, was too well-built/handled for normal mode, how we played it, but not good enough for hard mode.

At the end there, I was actually feeling sorry for poor Krune.

June Soler wrote:

Xar'z wrote:

10-11 hard mode was epic. I would love to see the Krune kill counts from paizocon.

There were few deaths after 12 tables, including a TPK (2 players willingly retired after swearing fealty to Krune! in a table ran by VC Eric Brittain - No tables were on hard mode. I was in the last table that ended 2 hours ago and I was the sole person to ask for Hard Mode in my table.

I made sweet stickers for all the Paizocon attendees who played The Waking Rune.

All players received them except the last two tables because someone swiped the bag with them.

The stickers were as follows(some had Krune's portrait others the Sihedron rune in the center):

" I TOOK ON THE RUNELORDS AND KICKED A$$!"
" KRUNE'S GOT NOTHING ON THIS PATHFINDER, PAIZOCON 2013"
" RUNELORDS ARE MY SPECIALTY, PAIZOCON 2013"
" MAY LISSALA CURSE YOU, PFS 4-26 HARD MODE!"
" I TOOK ON THE RUNELORDS ON HARD MODE!"

If you died:

" BEST WISHES IN THE AFTERLIFE... LOVE, KRUNE!"
" I TOOK ON THE RUNELORDS... AND GOT OWNED!"

At least one group took on the hard mode 10-11 Saturday afternoon and we stomped some Rune Lord @$$. Only Pirate Rob went down. It was a great group and an epic triumph. I proudly wore my KRUNE'S GOT NOTHING ON THIS PATHFINDER" sticker in my badge holder afterwards. So thank you June, it was a nice touch, even if we didn't get the hard mode stickers or our gold stars. We know what we did.

10-11 hard mode was a blast. Our GM (Alex Greenshields, VC Portland) did a marvelous job frusturating us with Krune's many abilities and finally getting me with a coup-de-grace before going down.

I made sweet stickers for all the Paizocon attendees who played The Waking Rune.

The stickers were as follows(some had Krune's portrait others the Sihedron rune in the center):

" I TOOK ON THE RUNELORDS AND KICKED A$$!"
" KRUNE'S GOT NOTHING ON THIS PATHFINDER, PAIZOCON 2013"
" RUNELORDS ARE MY SPECIALTY, PAIZOCON 2013"
" MAY LISSALA CURSE YOU, PFS 4-26 HARD MODE!"
" I TOOK ON THE RUNELORDS ON HARD MODE!"

If you died:

" BEST WISHES IN THE AFTERLIFE... LOVE, KRUNE!"
" I TOOK ON THE RUNELORDS... AND GOT OWNED!"

I saw plenty of these on binders throughout the weekend and was thoroughly jealous. I love seeing these little things that make PFS even better. Great idea and great work!

Got to admit, the group I played Waking Rune with at PaizoCon, Saturday morning at 10-11, was too well-built/handled for normal mode, how we played it, but not good enough for hard mode.

At the end there, I was actually feeling sorry for poor Krune.

** spoiler omitted **

Given his abilities I am surprised that caused him a problem.

Having played this at 7-8 (regular mode) on my level 10 wizard (with his level 11 fighter friend) and getting owned, I can only conclude that many people who GM'ed this for successful tables may have missed a few things.

When I was waiting in line for the banquet at PaizoCon, a GM in line was telling me he TPK'd a party of 11th level characters earlier in the day for this scenario, and they didn't even play on hard mode.

He didn't give any details for spoiler reasons, but recommended NOT to play up unless you are truly prepared to die.

Having played this at 7-8 (regular mode) on my level 10 wizard (with his level 11 fighter friend) and getting owned, I can only conclude that many people who GM'ed this for successful tables may have missed a few things.

** spoiler omitted **

Not sure how your GM was getting those DC's but they are wrong.

Here's a brief rundown of how our 10-11 hard went:

Thanks again June for those stickers! They were appreciated by all the players! I didn't take one for my GM chronicle as I felt I hadn't earned it, though :)

Here's a brief rundown of how our 10-11 hard went:

** spoiler omitted **

I still can't believe that more than half the party had made that Fort save considering the DC!

Thanks again for running our fantastic table Alex, and I apologize for any details I misremembered.

Not sure how your GM was getting those DC's but they are wrong.

I'm not sure either -- I don't have the mod. I just know I got a 25 on my will save and ended up a squirrel. :P

Got to admit, the group I played Waking Rune with at PaizoCon, Saturday morning at 10-11, was too well-built/handled for normal mode, how we played it, but not good enough for hard mode.

At the end there, I was actually feeling sorry for poor Krune.

** spoiler omitted **

I was at the same table!

kinevon wrote:

Got to admit, the group I played Waking Rune with at PaizoCon, Saturday morning at 10-11, was too well-built/handled for normal mode, how we played it, but not good enough for hard mode.

At the end there, I was actually feeling sorry for poor Krune.

** spoiler omitted **

Given his abilities I am surprised that caused him a problem.

** spoiler omitted **

Andreww, does he still have those abilities if we ...

Krune taste good?

Yes, I ate his ashes with relish.

andreww wrote:

kinevon wrote:

Got to admit, the group I played Waking Rune with at PaizoCon, Saturday morning at 10-11, was too well-built/handled for normal mode, how we played it, but not good enough for hard mode.

At the end there, I was actually feeling sorry for poor Krune.

** spoiler omitted **

Given his abilities I am surprised that caused him a problem.

** spoiler omitted **

Andreww, does he still have those abilities if we ...

** spoiler omitted **