Creative Director
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Yeah, I'd rather stay loyal to the source material myself.Anyway, all these Cthulhu fanboys are derailing the topic a little bit.
We should focus on the other cool stuff that's gonna be in this Bestiary as well!
Thing is... I feel that a powerful Cthulhu DOES stay loyal to the source material.
After all, getting critically hit in the head with a steamship is gonna do a lot of damage.
One more thing... try to avoid using the phrase "Cthulhu fanboy." Or ANYTHING "fanboy." I like to think our boards are better than that.
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Alright, fixed my previous post.
I'd say that's up for debate, but really, a party of Mythic heroes is MUCH worse than a mere steamship.
Just seems more logical. And I really would want to hear about something else than just how awesome/pathetic Cthulhu is.
If Bestiary 4 has Grendel, does it also have his mom as a separate monster entry?
I agree with Icyshadow, you better name this Bestiary Chthulu & Godzilla, those are like the only creatures people really want...
I'm curious about Grendel's Mother too, but what name should she get then? Because Grendel's Mother is not really a name that suits the bestiary... Does she have a name in the book/movies?
And the Bodysnatchers, are they named so, or are they just based on Bodysnatchers but with another name? Are they gonna be plants or aberration?
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Dr. Who > Cthulhu when it comes to Geek Club Membership.
Sorry guys, but if you ain't getting excited about Cthulhu, I've got to take your Geek Club Memebership Cards away.
10.000 slaves and followers of The-Talking-Bag are gonna to favorite this...
Fair enough.
I agree with Icyshadow, you better name this Bestiary Chthulu & Godzilla, those are like the only creatures people really want...
I'm curious about Grendel's Mother too, but what name should she get then? Because Grendel's Mother is not really a name that suits the bestiary... Does she have a name in the book/movies?
And the Bodysnatchers, are they named so, or are they just based on Bodysnatchers but with another name? Are they gonna be plants or aberration?
Well she isn't named but she is called " "aglæc-wif" in Kleber's edition of Beowulf. There is a controversy on what it means, but it's the closest I can get.
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Whether those "outer" dragons are planar dragons or alien dragons, I'm excited.
A long ago outcast tribe of orcs who turned to ways of peace and nature so that it flows through them and their descendants inseparable, becoming a race all together an avatar to nature, altogether something else :3
I'd buy it.
I wouldn't discount tooth faeries as "funny-creatures" D:
I promise you, the tooth fairies are not "funny-creatures." Unless of course you find cruelty and violence funny. In that case, they're hilarious!
Well the thing is normally Tooth Faeries are cute and sweet creatures that collect teeth from good children en give gifts, you can do so much cool things with that and twist it into an evil version
The only thing the parents find of their child in the morning ARE THEIR TEETH, for example :-D
I also would like to know if Grendel's mother is in there as well. if she is I hope she and Grendel are monstrous humanoids.
Leanen Sidhe and Tooth Faeries, well at least that is two fey in this book.
I would happy either way if the outer dragons were for the outer planes or outer space to honest.
I hope Leanan Sidhe aren't extremly powerful, as they are mentioned in the list with very powerfull monsters, I hope they are around CR 12/14.
Grendel is probably that giant on the cover (As it looks deformed and with many bones) it could also be a FOmorian, but I think its Grendel, would suit in more with the other book-monsters on the cover.
I think Grendel will be Monstrous Humanoid/Giant or maybe Aberration.
It looks like they made him a bone-collector or something.
I wish the outer dragons are from outer planes, but that really does sound more proper to me as well, It would be difficult to come up with 5 space-based dragons.
It could also be a slag giant or just something that wasn't mentioned.
It doesn't have metal on it, i'm 90% sure its Grendel on the cover, especially because its all book/movie monsters on there, and its deformed.
With all this speculation and controversy over the Bestiary 4, I have to get this book so I can have some closure!
Are all kaiju past CR 25? It would be nice for at least a couple of them to be below 25. Are all kaiju mythic, as well?
So, the tooth fairies...are they going to be inspired in any way by the swarming tooth and bone consuming monsters from Hellboy II? Because something akin to that version would be awesome to uncork on an unsuspecting party of adventurers in a crowded tavern tap-room :-). Then again I generally have an evil fondness for swarms of all kinds in my games.
I would like a Kaiju that is in the CR20-25 range myself.
The only "controversy" about the Bestiary 4 is it didn't come out last year. I just hope my expectations aren't too high because it has been awhile since the last one.
So, the tooth fairies...are they going to be inspired in any way by the swarming tooth and bone consuming monsters from Hellboy II? Because something akin to that version would be awesome to uncork on an unsuspecting party of adventurers in a crowded tavern tap-room :-). Then again I generally have an evil fondness for swarms of all kinds in my games.
Lol a long time ago I wished for Viscious Tooth Faeries and I used that same picture (from the hellboy tooth faeries) with it, so I really hope they used that concept as it is AWESOME!
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The kaiju are specific unique monsters. I wrote the template for Dragon back in the day, and it took up a lot of pages. We don't have that kind of luxury in a Bestiary... and I was never 100% satisfied with how the template article turned out anyway, since it's so much better to have specific monsters with unique powers in this case.Are the kaiju going to be a template of some kind we can use to make our own (like in the Dragon article), or are they just going to be a number of specific, rare/unique monsters?
I still used the template...created 3 nassssty lil' Kaiju that were cornerstones in one campaign I played with for a while. It might not have been perfect, but the template was a blast, and if you were a bit flexible, it wasn't bad at all.
Just sayin' thanks for it...and I'd still use it if I could just find the darn thing again. I luv me sum templates. :p
My guess for Outer Dragons:
Force Dragon (Alignment Lawful)
Prismatic Dragon (Alignment Chaotic)
Celestial Dragon from Master of Devils
Fiendish Dragon Counter Part to Celestial Dragon
hmm not sure about the 5th one
Outer dragons for the planes could be...
Good/Holy/Celestial
Evil/Fiendish
Neutral/Balance/Judgment
Chaos/Discord
Law/Order/Axiomatic
Outer Dragons for the planets could be...
Moon
Star
Sun
Void/Space
Planet/comet/meteor
Nebula/universe
The Guardian Dragon might be there version of Force or Prismatic dragons.
I hope Gaasyendietha the Meteor Dragon is among them.
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Creative Director
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I would like a Kaiju that is in the CR20-25 range myself.
The only "controversy" about the Bestiary 4 is it didn't come out last year. I just hope my expectations aren't too high because it has been awhile since the last one.
All kaiju are above CR 25.
The "giant destructive monster" niche below CR 25 is already VERY well represented by behemoths and spawn of Rovagug. To say nothing of the tane or dragons.
Tooth faeries are from Don't Be Afraid of the Dark, I'm betting.
In which case, they'll be friggin' terrifying.
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Creative Director
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My guess for Outer Dragons:
Force Dragon (Alignment Lawful)
Prismatic Dragon (Alignment Chaotic)Wes said in the other thread that outer dragons are "Something you've never seen before," so prismatic/force dragons are out. There are a bunch of dragon breeds from the dragon article of Fortress of the Stone Giants that have never been touched on: abomination dragons, humour, mineral, sin, thaumaturgic, and virtue.
I'm really hoping we never see mineral dragons. I just can't get excited about silicon or pyrite dragons.
This is where I point out that the dragon breed from that article are things you've seen before.
AKA: Things the outer dragons are not. :-P
(Those variant dragons, by the way, from that article, are pretty much things we're not going to be following up on—they were an early thought in the proto-days of Pathfinder and, like a few other things, ended up being something we didn't want to do after all.)
I'm confused. Where are people seeing tooth faeries up there?
I'm confused. Where are people seeing tooth faeries up there?
They are listed in the linked Bestiary 4 product page:
The mightiest monsters and foulest foes of nightmare and legend rampage into your game with Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary 4. This collection of creatures shatters all past thresholds of danger and destructiveness with phenomenally powerful beings like demon lords, kaiju, juggernauts, and Great Old Ones—including invincible Cthulhu! Terrors like nosferatu vampires, clockwork dragons, twisted fleshwarps, and sadistic tooth fairies number among the more than 250 monsters collected to challenge heroes of every level of play—from first-level novices to mythic champions. New familiars, player-friendly races, and other allies also rise to aid characters in combating this host of horrors, while new templates—like mummified and fungal creatures—breathe fearsome new menace into your existing monstrous arsenal. Strike fear in the hearts of the mightiest heroes and shake the foundations of your campaign with Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary 4.
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My guess for Outer Dragons:
Force Dragon (Alignment Lawful)
Prismatic Dragon (Alignment Chaotic)Wes said in the other thread that outer dragons are "Something you've never seen before," so prismatic/force dragons are out. There are a bunch of dragon breeds from the dragon article of Fortress of the Stone Giants that have never been touched on: abomination dragons, humour, mineral, sin, thaumaturgic, and virtue.
I'm really hoping we never see mineral dragons. I just can't get excited about silicon or pyrite dragons.
This is where I point out that the dragon breed from that article are things you've seen before.
AKA: Things the outer dragons are not. :-P
(Those variant dragons, by the way, from that article, are pretty much things we're not going to be following up on—they were an early thought in the proto-days of Pathfinder and, like a few other things, ended up being something we didn't want to do after all.)
Good call there. Humour dragons and mineral dragons didn't sound like something that could rock my boat.
But Abomination Dragons sound awesome...
I would like a Kaiju that is in the CR20-25 range myself.
The only "controversy" about the Bestiary 4 is it didn't come out last year. I just hope my expectations aren't too high because it has been awhile since the last one.
All kaiju are above CR 25.
The "giant destructive monster" niche below CR 25 is already VERY well represented by behemoths and spawn of Rovagug. To say nothing of the tane or dragons.
Yes, speaking of the tane. . . are there more in bestiary 4?
Are the kaiju going to be a template of some kind we can use to make our own (like in the Dragon article), or are they just going to be a number of specific, rare/unique monsters?
Gojira, Mosura, Radon, Gidora should absolutely positively NOT BE REDUCED to a mere TEMPLATE. Kaiju are supposed to be as rare as the Spawn of Rovagug, Behemoths, and Tane (or perhaps even RARER as they can not only level cities but entire NATIONS all by themselves).
I don't wanna mix the Lovecraft and the Godzilla too much though. Not everything is as good together as peanut butter and chocolate.
BINGO. You win the prize James. They are two separate Genres and they DON'T mix well together. Granted I certainly wouldn't mind pitting Gojira against Chthulu.
I agree with Icyshadow, you better name this Bestiary Chthulu & Godzilla, those are like the only creatures people really want...
Speak for yourself, I'm looking forward to new Celestials, the Outer Dragons, and pretty much anything else this book can give to us.
I also would like to know if Grendel's mother is in there as well. if she is I hope she and Grendel are monstrous humanoids.
Did Grendel's mother ever have a name? I always thought her name was Lilith for some reason; but yeah, I hope she's in this too.
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Are there more ______ in Bestiary 4? What about ______ ? Can you tell us more about ______? Will ______ be like ______?
Thanks to everyone for all the great questions and enthusiasm. To comprehensively answer all of your questions without any biased order, we will put together an exhaustive response and release it soon.
Watch for it this Fall.
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Good call there. Humour dragons and mineral dragons didn't sound like something that could rock my boat.
I wouldn't judge those misunderstood creatures according their names only
Humour dragons... Yellow and Black Bile Dragon, Blood Dragon, Phlegm Dragon. I can see those, especially if they were fluffed as being connected to the humours of the world, for example Black Blood from the deep vaults. Perhaps they could be cool.
Mineral Dragons could be better as mere drakes though.
Hm. Wonder if "Outer" dragons could be something from the Dark Tapestry.
cf, the Outer Gods?
That could make them truly terrifying.
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Good call there. Humour dragons and mineral dragons didn't sound like something that could rock my boat.
I saw Humour dragons, and my first thought was the Good Humor Man and Ice Cream Dragons.
Hm. Wonder if "Outer" dragons could be something from the Dark Tapestry.
cf, the Outer Gods?
That could make them truly terrifying.
...Yog-Sothoth dragons, Shub-Niggurath dragons, Nyarlathotep dragons, and Azathoth dragons?
...I don't think that's what they are, or that that's what they should be, but the idea is amusing.
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I agree with Icyshadow, you better name this Bestiary Chthulu & Godzilla, those are like the only creatures people really want...Speak for yourself, I'm looking forward to new Celestials, the Outer Dragons, and pretty much anything else this book can give to us.
I'm not one of those, I just thought nobody talked about other monsters.
Hm. Wonder if "Outer" dragons could be something from the Dark Tapestry.
cf, the Outer Gods?
That could make them truly terrifying.
...Yog-Sothoth dragons, Shub-Niggurath dragons, Nyarlathotep dragons, and Azathoth dragons?
...I don't think that's what they are, or that that's what they should be, but the idea is amusing.
In the Bestiary 4 wishlist thread Wesley asked people to give him ideas for a family of 5 dragon types and I actually responded to that with something kind of similar to this.
If that is what made its way into the book, i will be beside myself with joy.
... I just got reeeeally excited.
I'm not one of those, I just thought nobody talked about other monsters.
I agree with Icyshadow, you better name this Bestiary Chthulu & Godzilla, those are like the only creatures people really want...Speak for yourself, I'm looking forward to new Celestials, the Outer Dragons, and pretty much anything else this book can give to us.
Well they are literally the big thing about this volume. But I'm itching to see everything. I wonder if the Nosferatu template will be similar to the normal vampire. I want to apply it to a Succubus, for kicks.
Also what is Slag? Does that mean some Jack-in-Irons like giant?Slag is castoff metal, usually considered useless.
Or a person of loose-morals. :P
So it'll be a truely horrific bestiary then.
Elohim, maybe there mythic fey.
Faith fueled Juggernaut...pray to giant Robo X...
Leanen Sidhe, hopfully not mythic, maybe CR12-14 range
I hope the Juggernouts are Talos-like statues, not robots.
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As far as I read the description, leanen sidhe will be mythic. That being said, mythic monster need not to be CR 25+, you can easily have a lower CR monster with mythic tiers. I suggest you guys to browse the Mythic Playtest on how mythic monsters and challenges work.