"From them she learned of a prophecy, set down by the oracles of the brimstone haruspex, that a dark comet would herald the return of Gormuz—the first and most powerful of Rovagug’s spawn—who would in turn unleash the Rough Beast himself. Raskineya sees herself as this dark comet, and demands all those who address her to call her by that name (with a slow death awaiting to those who do not)." It's a title, not a reference to any particular ability I can spot.
"Starflight" speed, and breathless special quality.
Yeah, that comes pretty close
I'd love to see Balor of the Evil Eye, who's actually a fomorian and not a demon.
The confusion might be fixed with an alternate spelling of his name though, like Balar.
Eh, Balor's just a name. The official rank is 'Type VI Demon.' :)
The other five Type VI's were named Alzoll, Errtu, Ndulu, Ter-Soth and Wendonai. (Errtu was the only one I remembered without looking it up, 'though, 'cause he's the one we fought, back in the day.)
Taking into account D&D lore, up to and including 4th edition, it tuns out the 'Demon' and 'Devil' are just affiliations (and usually also tell us where they live), but Tanar'ri and Baatezu are actual races of planer creatures. There are several examples of non-Tanar'ri/Baatezu demons & devils. The most famous example would be Graz'zt, who was born a devil, and became a demon. IIRC, he is now back to being a devil (maybe - my knowledge of 4e lore is pretty sparse). Personally, I wouldn't even say he was a Batezu - I think he's a relative of Lolth's (but thats just my homebrew musings - he's got a bit of a 'drow thing' going on there).
So 'devil' & 'demon' are almost like job descriptions (or belonging to a club), and has nothing at all to do with race. Going with that, then 'Balor of the Evil Eye' easily becomes a Fomorian who became a demon after death (or ascension, depending upon how you look at it). If a dark elf could do it (Araushnee/Lolth), then why not a Fomorian? (and there may even be an interesting story in there as well, considering Arausnee was technically a Fey, and Balor a Fomorian - two races that presumably warred on each other).
So in other words, if powerful Good people can become angels (Celestials) after death, then it should be just as common for powerful Evil people to become fiends. IIRC, the 1e rules may have even addressed that (I recall fiends being able to 'evolve' into higher fiend forms over time, and they all started-out as 'damned souls').
Hey, I think I just figured-out Pokémon are fiends. 0_o
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ya know...ever bestiary related thread sees people confused on Formians vs Fomorians
I am wondering if for that reason alone Pathfinder should use the term Fomor instead. It's similar still...but not quite as similar.
ya know...ever bestiary related thread sees people confused on Formians vs Fomorians
I am wondering if for that reason alone Pathfinder should use the term Fomor instead. It's similar still...but not quite as similar.
lol, I was debating bringing that up. formian vs formorians, ant people versus irish monster people
The giants are Fomorians, not FoRmorians.
I never confuse the two...
The best thing the Fomorians have are their Ram horns, I really hope pathfinder gives them their horns, D&D failed at that.
Does anyone here have the Time life Enchanted world series?
There is a great illustration of a pitched battle between the Tuatha de Danaan and the Fomor, and it's awesome. Interestingly, none of the Fomor are depicted as Giants (relative to their opponents). Instead they tend to be depicted with various animal heads and a few other deformities.
Other Fomor got depicted as fairly human like, even beautiful. There is really a whole range variety there....enough to make a fairly diverse subtype
I wouldn't mind if pathfinder's version of the Fomorians were fey instead of giants.
Anyway you can get that picture from a site MMCJawa?
I haven't been able to find it on a quick search online. I think it was in the book on fairies, but I could be mistaken. My old library had the series, so the books might be gettable through library loans
My ideas for fomorians are documented over at the wishlist topic here. I'd prefer giants with fey traits (skills, DR/cold iron) and some ties to nature, like maybe some druid spells or similar abilities. I feel that since they were sea reavers and warriors, it only makes sense that they'd have a good BAB and good health, which the normal fey type doesn't have unfortunately.
But, I think the three of us have had this conversation before..;)
Yeah I think two or three times :P
But the more we have this conversation the more likely we will see official Pathfinder Fomorians :)
The giants are Fomorians, not FoRmorians.
lol, whoops, my slip.
Giants that came from the First World would work, but give them the old Firbolg ability of size change (and I believe at least one gnome and one dwarf sub-type had that as well). Fey should also be able to change size somewhat (their forms should be mutable - I have yet to really look at what PF has done with them).
Thus, if Fey can 'bulk up', and Fomorians can get smaller (although why would they want to?), an illustration of them being the same size works just fine.
Personally, I think anything from the First World/ with a Fey heritage should be able to change size, but whatever. Its just as easy to say that all fey started-out very tall (and folklore backs this up), and then 'dwindled' (another common trope in Fairy lore), so the Fey themselves were almost a very small class of giant.
When a creature out of myth has conflicting descriptions, just give them an ability that explains it. For example, maybe the deformed (1e/2e/3e) take on Fomorians is due to them changing size TOO much - that would be the drawback of them 'balloning up' - there is always a chance that parts of them will get malformed. So you can have fairly normal looking ones, and then have the butt-ugly kind as part of that same group.
And a correction - I said the Fey warred with the Fomorians, but IIRC, it was the Firbolg who warred with the Fomorians, and the Firbolg themselves were later displaced by the migrating Fey (in legend). So if you do Fomorians, you got to do Firbolgs as well. EDIT: I just looked this up on Wikipedia, and it disagrees with this account - an account I read in a book on Irish legends... oh well.
As for Formians... I never liked them. If it were me, I'd try to tie them to Myrmidons somehow. Maybe have a specific sub-group (because insects are always divided in 'castes') that has a shape-change ability that allows them to mimic 'normal folk'. Then again, I may have liked the movie Mimic more then I thought.
Giants that came from the First World would work, but give them the old Firbolg ability of size change (and I believe at least one gnome and one dwarf sub-type had that as well).
Well, I think we have the gnome version of this already in Spriggans.
I would make the Firbolgs as giants from the first world with size changing, DR/cold iron, and some other abiliites. But still Formorians as large(or different sizes) fey would be cool especially with varied forms.
I would do something different with Fir Bolgs, if not they can be used as Wood Giant.
IIRC...Firbolg fought the Fomorians on their arrival to Ireland. They were then swiftly defeated by the Tuatha De Danaan. The Tuatha De Danaan and Fomorians had a truce for awhile, and even intermarried, but eventually the Tuatha De Danaan rose up in rebellion and defeated the Fomorians, scattering them to the ocean or remote reaches of Ireland.
There actually appears to be less info on the appearance of the Firbolg, although they were often described as giants and associated with bogs. They may have also been dark-skinned; I believe some sources have tried to associate them with escaped slaves from Africa or the Mediterranean.
IIRC...Firbolg fought the Fomorians on their arrival to Ireland. They were then swiftly defeated by the Tuatha De Danaan. The Tuatha De Danaan and Fomorians had a truce for awhile, and even intermarried, but eventually the Tuatha De Danaan rose up in rebellion and defeated the Fomorians, scattering them to the ocean or remote reaches of Ireland.
There actually appears to be less info on the appearance of the Firbolg, although they were often described as giants and associated with bogs. They may have also been dark-skinned; I believe some sources have tried to associate them with escaped slaves from Africa or the Mediterranean.
So there isn't really that many info on the real world Fir Bolg at all, most people love and know them from their D&D versions, but the real version isn't really that special at all, the only thing you could copy is their hate for Fomorians maybe, their appearance can be anything you like as there isn't real usefull information about that part.
So I say if they use Fir Bolg they should do something special with them, something different than D&D and something different from just another Hill Giant or Wood Giant.
Fir Bolg sound like some good alignment creature tho, the arch enemy for the Fomorian which are evil.
I would say they were neutral. They invaded Ireland not out of any sense or righteousness, and they also warred with the Tuatha De Danann who were the "good" guys (if you could apply the term good to anyone in the Invasion cycle).
They appear to have been fair rulers though, and they were honorable enough that they were given a portion of Ireland, after which there were no further conflicts
I am not really how Pathfinder should adapt them...I would favor a large sized giant, with perhaps the ability to change body size and some sort of association with bogs. Maybe play up the escaped slave bit and have them get bonuses toward enchantment or other mind effecting powers.
There aren't that many good aligment giants (only one I can think up is the Wood Giant), so Fir Bolgs would be good for that in my opinion.
An animal-shape shifter would be nice as well, them living in bogs is ok too, but the Marsh Giant is there already, even more reason to make it a good-aligmnent creature. The slave-part would be good too, maybe slaves of fomorians or marsh giants.
Hmmm... Anyone else want to see a mid-line Character Power Level Reptilian Race.
Think how Goblinoids are:
Goblins -> Hobgoblins -> Bug Bears
Now we need:
Kobolds -> _______ -> ... umm... Lizardfolk/Serpantfolk...
Wait do we even have a Monstrous Reptillian Race that would be fitting in that triad?
I'd probably say lizardfolk are already the midline race. I actually made them into a race with the ARG, including some racial traits like camouflage or the ability to shoot blood out of their eyes. That one was a fun trait!
Kobold -> Lizardmen -> Troglodyte
The ARG Lizardfolk are pretty pretty balanced as well.
Yeah, they probably should have a different name to set them apart from the bestiary lizardfolk, since they're not the same.
Favorites from past bestiaries, like new clockwork creatures, drakes, and gremlins
I really hope there are more original drakes in this book than just more environment+drakes to fill pages with.
Instead of Swamp-Mountain and Vulcanic Drakes I wanna see something like Drakes from other planes or with alien abilities.
The only Drake I like this far is the Rift Drake, so I hope to see more Drakes like that.
Really all Giants and Trolls have environment disease already, so no need to add in more drakes there.
Isn't the Drake the missing link between Dragons and Wyverns?
I don't know and I don't really care, I just use the Rift Drake as an entire different species of dragon, just weaker and smaller but still a dragon.
The other Drakes don't excist for me so you have to ask Dragon78 who is a big fan of Drakes as far as I remember.
Heheheh, I have to admire the brutal honesty there.
Ok, ok, ok the Sea Drake looks pretty awesome too, but its name is just a nono.
The worst of the lot for me is the Forest Drake tho, never liked that thing since it appeared in that AP.
Why, if I may ask?
It's just so dull looking, environment name, Wyvern wannabe, nothing special in the fluff.
Such creatures just never appeal to me at all.
The others drakes still have their good looks and special things, the Forest Drake doesn't have that, its just something of a Green Dragon (don't like chromatic dragons to begin with) and a Wyvern into one.
And I was pissed it got the intro artwork in the begin of that AP bestiary it appeared in while there were much better monsters in that same AP, I didn't understand why they picked the Forest Drake for the intro art. ;-)
Trust me, my friends also pointed out how different the AP drawing of the Drake was compared to the Bestiary one. That's why I houseruled that drakes do have stubby arms, kinda like a t-rex. That at least distinguishes them from true dragons and wyverns. My theory for the existence of drakes is that they're a good introduction to fighting dragons without taking away the epicness and high level of fighting an actual dragon.
Lumps of mithrl don't go raiding villages, attracting high-level adventurers in the process.
Trust me, my friends also pointed out how different the AP drawing of the Drake was compared to the Bestiary one. That's why I houseruled that drakes do have stubby arms, kinda like a t-rex. That at least distinguishes them from true dragons and wyverns. My theory for the existence of drakes is that they're a good introduction to fighting dragons without taking away the epicness and high level of fighting an actual dragon.
The artwork in Bestiary 2 Box (pawns) of the Forest Drake is somewhat better than the art in bestiary 2, but it still doesn't make things much better.
And I use Wyverns for that job actually, they are my pre-dragons, but then again the only dragons im using are the dragons from bestiary 2 (Crystal, Brine, Magma, Umbral and Cloud) and the ones that appear randomly like the Gorynych, Few Linnorms, Kongamato, Jabberwock, Zomok, Dragon Turtle and I use Mobogo as dragon as well.
I really hope I can add the Space Dragons from Bestiary 4 to this list as well, Void Dragon sounds awesome tho, hope to see more mytho dragons in there as well, Ladon, Gaasyendietha, Python, Aitvaras, Pyrausta, Echidna and Campe would be sweet to see in there.
You could almost say that the Fir Bolgs were the 'offspring' of Fomorian/Tuathan relations. Not precisely true to folklore, but thematiclaly, it would work. Those two groups 'got along', and then we have the Fir Bolg appearing and raising a ruckus; "the children of ancient beings supplanting them" is a pretty tried-and-true trope.
So a(n RPG) Fir Bholg could be a half fey/Half Giant - that explains the size and the tree-hugging (someone suggested making them wood giants - that's a decent fit).
{no-one here thought the idea of the malformed Fomorians being the result of 'over-stretching' their size-change ability was a good idea?} :(
I've loved Drakes since the OD&D/Mystara days, so YEAH, more of those.
In my HB musings, I have it where everyone gets it wrong - dragons are actually the result of ancient crossbreeding of drakes and Celestial (Lung) dragons, and unnatural. The dragons will never admit that the simplistic drakes are actually their forbears (like I said, pure Homebrew for my own campaigns). The Linnorms may be the proto-versions of those, or perhaps are the 'true' evolutionary end to the drake genus.
{no-one here thought the idea of the malformed Fomorians being the result of 'over-stretching' their size-change ability was a good idea?} :(
I like any idea with Fomorians, as long as they keep their Ram-like horns :-p
The idea is cool and original, I like it.
I am sure most of those will be in there except for Gnoph-Keh, Dimensional Shambler, and Dark Young I believe. If I remember correctly those were the three that needed special permission to reprint.
Whaaaa!? Prove it! Post it in a new thread and/or link to it or it's not real! ;)My PC is down so I don't have access to the Word Doc on my hard drive, but I started retyping it from my print-out.
It's not much to look at though, it's just a templated Guild Master NPC (rogue 11) from Paizo's GameMastery Guide (page 267). I took away two rogue levels and added 3 aristocrat levels to reach aristocrat 3/rogue 9 for the Viscount. (He's CR 13, not CR 14 like I said before.) His Skills may be incorrect because of the change from rogue 11 to aristocrat 3/rogue 9.
But anyway, I'm retyping him and will post him soon, flaws and all.
Edit: Posted here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pqu2?My-version-of-Viscount-Oilic-Galdyce#1
OK, so I finally got around to rebuilding Viscount Oilic Galdyce. He no longer uses the Guild Master NPC as a baseline so he's a true aristocrat 3/rogue 9. He's built with the Heroic Array and equipped as a level 12 PC (slightly over-budget), and his skill ranks were all redistributed. In other words he's much better now, in my opinion. I focused his feats on grappling so he's more likely to get to use his blood drain ability. He has the Noble Dead variant ability from Classic Horrors Revisited and I also made stats for his bat swarm form, and partial stats for centipede and spider swarm forms. (No rat swarm, it seemed least likely to be used.) Well, anyway, there's more detail on the page with him, so here's the link:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pqu2?My-version-of-Viscount-Oilic-Galdyce#2